TSS issue taken offline.

[JimFitz]

Actually, now that I go back and look more carefully at Jim's OP, I think I was wrong. I believe it might be the ORIGINAL thread. Yesterday, the mods said they removed it pending review, and I can only assume they reviewed it and decided to let it continue.

I've edited my previous post to reflect my mistake.

Correct......I am not posting here because I know TSS can't. I am actually surprised that they are not allowed to since some many other message boards allow sponsors to respond to customer complaint.

 

[JimMIA]

JimMIA, get your facts straight. I opened this thread to state my frustration. I belong to many discussion boards with Sponsors, and they are able to respond to customer comments (good or bad) in the public forum. I in no way posted this knowing that TSS could not respond, and quite frankly I was shocked that the thread was immediately locked and that TSS would not be able to respond. I talked to the mod via PM and he told me he was investigating.....I was mad, but left it alone. Then, Rinkwide opened a thread asking if we (posters) we not allowed to bash sponsors. I posted my comment there that I was not happy. I did not repost the original thread and just posted that I was not happy.....but no specifics because I knew the Mod was working behind the scenes.

So what do you mean by "what part of no don't you understand"?????

You and I were typing at the same time Jim. I realized that this was the original thread, which the mods have apparently decided to allow to continue, and I posted a retraction above.

I'm also well aware that you did not start the second thread, and said so in my earlier post.

 

[JimFitz]

Oh yeah, my thought too. My second thought was that it's sure nice of the TSS to let him post on what is effectively "their" website.

Talk about spitting into the wind!

We had a very good experience with TSS, they were excellent.

Yes, you are getting one side, I agree with that.

But spitting in the wind because they are allowing me to post on their site? I thought this was owned by Disboards and TSS is just a sponsor.

My purchase with them was excellent. My sale was a different story.

 

[JimMIA]

My advice to you would be to calm down and work out something agreeable with TTS.

I know you say you don't have the listing contract and don't remember what you signed, but that's not a very compelling legal argument. Also, an after-hours voice mail message would be impossible to produce as evidence.

Every listing contract I've ever seen contained a clause like Dean and Beca referenced, requiring the seller to pay the full commission if they decline an offer at the listing price. Whether that language is in what you signed, I don't know. But if it is, your position is pretty weak.

Also, just FYI, in Florida the normal method of handling a claim for $1,800 would be small claims court. No lawyers are required. There would be a few hundred dollars in fees and costs involved, but those could be recouped in the judgement. If someone was successful in getting a judgement and then unable to collect, they could place a lien on any property they could locate. I don't think a realtor would have any difficulty finding some property to file a lien against.

 

[JimFitz]

My advice to you would be to calm down and work out something agreeable with TTS.

I know you say you don't have the listing contract and don't remember what you signed, but that's not a very compelling legal argument. Also, an after-hours voice mail message would be impossible to produce as evidence.

Every listing contract I've ever seen contained a clause like Dean and Beca referenced, requiring the seller to pay the full commission if they decline an offer at the listing price. Whether that language is in what you signed, I don't know. But if it is, your position is pretty weak.

Also, just FYI, in Florida the normal method of handling a claim for $1,800 would be small claims court. No lawyers are required. There would be a few hundred dollars in fees and costs involved, but those could be recouped in the judgement. If someone was successful in getting a judgement and then unable to collect, they could place a lien on any property they could locate. I don't think a realtor would have any difficulty finding some property to file a lien against.

Luckily the majority of my phone coversations were done at my place of business and all conversations are recorded and held for over 6 months. I can just have our telephony guys pull the tape.

 

[Disneyrsh]

it's all gotten so, so ugly.

 

[JimFitz]

You bought a timeshare for thousands of dollars and LOST THE PAPER WORK? Paperwork that "seemed" to not have any legal information on it. Seemed?

A verbal agreement is worth the paper it's printed on.

A timeshare purchase is absolutely like a real estate transaction, you sign things, you're contracturally obligated. There are many instances where you WILL be forced to sell in a RE transaction, even if you don't want to, or risk thousands in penalties.

The minute you wrote that you didn't have the original paperwork, it was very, very obvious to me that you just don't understand the contract you've entered into.

Having dealt with several real estate transactions, including a timeshare at TSS, I loathe sellers like you. Uninformed and careless, it's a disaster for buyers and RE agents.

Wait....read my posts. I was not buying, I was selling. I have all of the original paperwork from my purchase, and the purchase was fine. The paper they sent to me was a form for my name and address and authorizing them to list my item for sale on their website. It was faxed to me and told me to fax it back ASAP so they can list the property. I did not accept any offers from anyone. I did not get any offers and did not sign a contract to sell my property.

Are you getting it?

 

[Disneyrsh]

it's all gotten so, so ugly.

 

[JimFitz]

You bought a timeshare for thousands of dollars and LOST THE PAPER WORK? Paperwork that "seemed" to not have any legal information on it. Seemed?

A verbal agreement is worth the paper it's printed on.

A timeshare purchase is absolutely like a real estate transaction, you sign things, you're contracturally obligated. There are many instances where you WILL be forced to sell in a RE transaction, even if you don't want to, or risk thousands in penalties.

The minute you wrote that you didn't have the original paperwork, it was very, very obvious to me that you just don't understand the contract you've entered into.

Having dealt with several real estate transactions, including a timeshare at TSS, I loathe sellers like you. Uninformed and careless, it's a disaster for buyers and RE agents.

Also, I have done many of RE transactions in the past and this is the first one I ever had a problem with. I am forced to pay for a service that was not completed? They listed my property, but I decided not to sell. Why should I have to pay a fee????

 

[Disneyrsh]

.

 

[JimFitz]

I know you're the seller, hence the " I loathe sellers like you" comment.

You DID sign a contract for them to sell your property when you signed the listing agreement.

You may not understand this because you LOST it, but that's what a listing agreement is.

When they brought you a buyer in good faith you rejected it. Now TSS has specific rights to come after you.

I absolutely "get it".

Then why did their salesman fail to inform me that I would be required to pay a fee if I did not choose to sell. This was brought up during the conversations numerous times and all I got was :sure, no problem....your not required to sell". Never a mention of their fee.

As far as loosing the paperwork, I think its in my other office. However, this paperwork did not seem like a formal contract at all....looked more like a customer information sheet than anyhting else. I have seen many contracts in my days and have bought a sold a large amount of commercial real estate. Have I sold timeshares, no. However, I was not under the impression that you are responsible for a comission when you decide not to sell.

Do you do standard RE transactions?

 

[Chuck S]

Also, I have done many of RE transactions in the past and this is the first one I ever had a problem with. I am forced to pay for a service that was not completed? They listed my property, but I decided not to sell. Why should I have to pay a fee????

Actually, I think here is where most folks take exception...because real estate laws vary state to state. And they may also vary depending on whether it is a timeshare, regular home, or commercial property.

Most of us have dealt with buying/selling a home. In many (perhaps most) states, once a RE agent has an agreement to list your home, they have provided a service to you by listing it, and are entitiled to reasonable expenses for doing so. If they present you with an offer at your asking price, they have fullfilled their obligation to you as the seller. You always have the "right" to withdraw your property from sale, but in most home instances RE agents that have contact with a buyer are entitiled to their commission whether you proceed with the sale or not.

Apparently, Florida law or your listing agreement/contract with TSS does not specify that, which really seems odd to most of us. I think now we can understand why some timeshare resellers ask for an upfront fee to list a property.

 

[JimMIA]

Apparently, Florida law or your listing agreement/contract with TSS does not specify that, which really seems odd to most of us. I think now we can understand why some timeshare resellers ask for an upfront fee to list a property.

It's not a question of Florida law. I've listed and sold a number of properties here and every contract I've ever seen in Florida has contained a provision whereby the realtor earns their full commission if they get an offer at the listing price and the seller declines it.

I don't know of any requirement for such a clause in Florida law, but it's clearly standard business practice here (and everywhere else I've ever had any real estate dealings).

 

[jade1]

What a pain-great discussion for anyone on the fence to sell-be sure you know the details.

Just sell it-with the new rules you can buy it back in a few months for less anyway (saturation ) or buy VCR-you know you want it.

 

[JimMIA]

Luckily the majority of my phone coversations were done at my place of business and all conversations are recorded and held for over 6 months. I can just have our telephony guys pull the tape.

That would be an interesting legal question if you had to produce that evidence in Florida.

I'm assuming that CT is a single-party consent state, and that recording outgoing calls is legal there. Florida is an all-party consent state, and that is illegal here unless one of the parties to the call is a law enforcement official conducting a criminal investigation.

But...the recording would have been in CT, where it's apparently legal. I'd think the judge would allow it in, but you never know.

Of course, you'd have to produce both the recording and the techies in court. My guess is that would be pretty costly.

 

[JimFitz]

That would be an interesting legal question if you had to produce that evidence in Florida.

I'm assuming that CT is a single-party consent state, and that recording outgoing calls is legal there. Florida is an all-party consent state, and that is illegal here unless one of the parties to the call is a law enforcement official conducting a criminal investigation.

But...the recording would have been in CT, where it's apparently legal. I'd think the judge would allow it in, but you never know.

Of course, you'd have to produce both the recording and the techies in court. My guess is that would be pretty costly.

Jim, I don't know FLA RE law, but if you decide to sell your house in FLA, and list with an agent.......if you decide not to sell but they produced a buyer, your required to pay the commission?

 

[DiznEeyore]

Then why did their salesman fail to inform me that I would be required to pay a fee if I did not choose to sell. This was brought up during the conversations numerous times and all I got was :sure, no problem....your not required to sell". Never a mention of their fee.

Okay, so I just went and pulled out my TSS listing agreement. Under "General Conditions", item #2 reads as follows (bold emphasis mine for clarity's sake):


"2. It is the owner's responsibility to contact The Timeshare Store, Inc. in writing if the property is no longer for sale. This will stop further efforts by us to secure a Buyer. If we submit a contract to you at full price, we have earned our commisson. If the property has been sold or taken off the market without written notice to us, we are due our full commission. Your signature on this document signifies agreement."


So, even though you notified them by phone, you apparently are not within the stipulations of the agreement you signed, and accordingly, do owe them the commission.

FWIW, we had a small contract listed with them once and decided after they brought us a buyer not to sell and immediately sent them a check for the commission (Dave Ramsey calls that "stupid tax").

HTH!!

 

[JimMIA]

Jim, I don't know FLA RE law, but if you decide to sell your house in FLA, and list with an agent.......if you decide not to sell but they produced a buyer, your required to pay the commission?

I've sold a number of properties here, and every property I've ever listed has had that provision in the listing contract. I don't think it's something that's in Florida Statutes; I think it's just standard business practice.

I've also sold properties in other states and seen the same language.

 

[DiznEeyore]

I've sold a number of properties here, and every property I've ever listed has had that provision in the listing contract. I don't think it's something that's in Florida Statutes; I think it's just standard business practice.

It is in the listing agreement. See my post above yours.

 

[JimMIA]

"2. It is the owner's responsibility to contact The Timeshare Store, Inc. in writing if the property is no longer for sale. This will stop further efforts by us to secure a Buyer. If we submit a contract to you at full price, we have earned our commisson. If the property has been sold or taken off the market without written notice to us, we are due our full commission. Your signature on this document signifies agreement."

This is the kind of language I'm talking about, although I have to tell you this is more straightforward and clear than most I've seen.