TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[Planogirl]

I believe it goes back twenty years. The decommissioning of Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and Horizons. The ending of Surprise Mornings and introduction of the Character Caravan. Not expanding the monorail. The building of budget resort hotels. Rides that use plywood cutouts instead of well built sets. Maybe these things weren't brought up here on disboards, but I remember there being things to complain about very consistently.

I do agree that Epcot started turning into a shadow of its former self about that long ago. I also agree that changes such as the closing of Toad led to complaints. However it isn't the same.

Disney's whole perspective seems to be different. Maybe the change started back then but it wasn't as apparent. The food got steadily worse and the parks particularly Epcot started to degrade while prices went up and up. It would be a gradual process but personally I never noticed as much of it resort wide until the last several years.

By the way, I don't see building the Budget Resorts as a part of that. I see that as a step to make WDW more affordable to their visitors. Of course they might regret that step now.

 

[cakebaker]

So you feel a poll taken that has no negative comment section about a product gives you fair results. This topic was discussed at lengths not long ago. When you do polls or studies like this you have to get positive results. Wish I could remember what post had the actual questionaire on it but alas I don't perhaps someone else can help me out.

My daughter just finished the customer satisfaction email she got- there were plenty of areas she was free to leave her comments. For instance, she was able to leave comments complaining about the number of kiosks available to made additional fp+'s for, but she could've commented on anything that was of concern to her.

I did the same with the email I received after our August trip.

I simple do not accept that they twist their polls and data to suit themselves. If profit is king, then it would be foolish to pretend something is successful that is not. These things are not for public consumption, there's no need to do that and I think they're a bit above fooling themselves.

Attendance is up, profits are up. Clearly what they're doing is working. It's been a while since the 90's, time enough for dissatisfied customers to affect the bottom line.

 

[grimley1968]

I'm not embellishing when I share this. Last year at this time I was lamenting all these changes and the decisions I was needing to make about our May 2014 trip. We had our DCL cruise booked, and two-weeks booked at a vacation rental house. Our original plan was to do 5- or 6-day passes for WDW. At this point last year it was still not clear what was going to be the plight of off-siters. As the new year loomed I finally just brought this angst to the dinner table and shared with my kids (13, 11, 9, 7, 3, infant at the time) what we were possibly up against. My boys, 13 and 11, came away with something like this, "So you mean if we go there, we might not get to ride some of the rides, or we might only get to ride them once?" I confirmed that. They asked what we could do in Florida instead and I shared we'd do Busch Gardens Tampa and SeaWorld and Aquatica. They looked those parks up online and within a day they decided they'd much rather go somewhere new than go back to somewhere they loved and maybe not get to do WDW the way they were used to. This was a family decision and we did Plan B and had a blast. Disney changed. I get that. We all get that. Some people are either happy with the change, or find it didn't change their way of enjoying vacation enough to impact the decision to go or not. Others of us see what is being offered right now and know that it is too different to enjoy. My kids enjoyed riding TSMM three times and RnRR three times when we were there. They skipped GMR and Disney Jr. and ToT and other stuff for the chance to do what they like repeatedly. We weren't "ready to be upset." Well - I guess you can say we were upset, but we were still having a good time... somewhere else. And they spent their hard-earned money they'd saved all year by the bucketful on SeaWorld and BG souvenirs.

I've been having similar conversations with my family due to this test (and because of Disney replacing rather than adding attractions). We haven't come to a decision yet but this test is definitely a "con" for WDW.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Thank you for making this point because it is a big factor for us.

Our first several trips to WDW with the family all came sometime between mid February and mid April, and one of our main objectives was to get a break from the winter weather. A week doing nothing but sitting on a beach or around a pool would bore us to tears, but a week of nonstop days in theme parks would push us to exhaustion pretty quickly.

These early trips, when our daughters were young, established the general approach to WDW vacations that we have continued to this day. Mornings at a park, afternoon break, and evening in a park. WDW has provided us a perfect mix of recreation, entertainment, and relaxation while allowing us to spend time outdoors when doing that at home was not that much fun.

In the last couple of years we have visited WDW during the summer months a couple of times because of our youngest daughter's stints with the Disney College Program and a professional internship. Except for those extraneous factors, I would generally not choose to visit WDW from about May through October because being outside is usually more enjoyable at home than it is there.

It isn't that we like to sleep in (which we never do) or that we aren't "ride people" (because we certainly do a lot of that), we just aren't hell bent to ride as many things as possible in a day or to ride certain things over and over. When we aren't enjoying attractions, we can just enjoy being outside, and I think a lot of people from the northern climates feel that way when they visit WDW in the winter and early spring.

In that context, being able to make a few FP+ reservations in the evening (when paper FPs would never have been available for a major attraction) does add to our overall enjoyment. But, no FP system is a critical part of why we enjoy WDW.

Yep the whole weather thing makes a huge difference in what we enjoy down there. If WDW were in Iowa-I'm not sure we would even go as close as that is-but would hit Okoboji. Summers are so awesome here-esp living on the lake-it would loose a lot of draw for us. The rest of the year would be like here-so may as well go to Mexico beaches at that point.

 

[mesaboy2]

I suppose we won't see eye to eye.

Ya think?

My daughter just finished the customer satisfaction email she got- there were plenty of areas she was free to leave her comments. For instance, she was able to leave comments complaining about the number of kiosks available to made additional fp+'s for, but she could've commented on anything that was of concern to her.

I did the same with the email I received after our August trip.

I simple do not accept that they twist their polls and data to suit themselves. If profit is king, then it would be foolish to pretend something is successful that is not. These things are not for public consumption, there's no need to do that and I think they're a bit above fooling themselves.

Attendance is up, profits are up. Clearly what they're doing is working. It's been a while since the 90's, time enough for dissatisfied customers to affect the bottom line.

I think any recent upticks have more to do with national economic trends and very little to do with MM+. I think it's still way too early to draw any direct causal relationship between the two.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

And of course every family is different. But we are "pre-RD through last firework" visitors, who usually go every other day. Our family is so large that we always have someone new in our party who is just finally figuring out the Disney fun. So, while I would just as soon never see Lion King show again they do. While I never care to ride Space again, I have someone newly tall enough who wants to ride 4 times. I know people get this.

I DO love being warm. I get that. But it costs us $2200 for 5-day tickets for our family. I can't spend that much just to be warm. While we are in the park we DON'T STOP MOVING. We like to go- go-go. We do see value for our dollar as "how much did we get to do."

Thankfully, we are now big DCL fans. My now 4-year old DD thinks Rapunzel & Cinderella live on a luxury liner. But I do wish she could experience TSMM & see BatB show. I'm hoping WDW gets past this snag.

But certainly you could see where others may decide to add days for $10 each-esp with the extra FP+ ressies that could be made-even for some shorter day visits. On the cost of the entire trip it's fairly insignificant.

And again-it's not just to be warm, what do you do on the 5 days off?

 

[Angel Ariel]

My daughter just finished the customer satisfaction email she got- there were plenty of areas she was free to leave her comments. For instance, she was able to leave comments complaining about the number of kiosks available to made additional fp+'s for, but she could've commented on anything that was of concern to her.

I did the same with the email I received after our August trip.

I simple do not accept that they twist their polls and data to suit themselves. If profit is king, then it would be foolish to pretend something is successful that is not. These things are not for public consumption, there's no need to do that and I think they're a bit above fooling themselves.

Attendance is up, profits are up. Clearly what they're doing is working. It's been a while since the 90's, time enough for dissatisfied customers to affect the bottom line.

I do not dispute that the polls you received allowed for negative feedback.

By that same token, I also do not dispute the reports by others earlier on this testing process who reported (and some who illustrated via screenshot) that their polls.did not have negative feedback options. It was a hot topic here when it happened.

I'm not saying that Disney has always done it, or will continue to, but there is evidence that they *have* done it in the past.

 

[vacationer1954]

I do agree that Epcot started turning into a shadow of its former self about that long ago.

But then had some great times such as the introduction of Tapestry of Nations. As it always has been there has been good and bad.

I also agree that changes such as the closing of Toad led to complaints. However it isn't the same.

I believe permanently closing of a beloved ride is much more significant than three days of testing a new system at one ride.

Disney's whole perspective seems to be different.

I'd say that my perspective is different from it was a year ago, five years ago, ten years ago, etc., and that is true of everyone I know.

Maybe the change started back then but it wasn't as apparent.

Many people noticed it, but I agree that not everyone has noticed or was concerned about every change.

By the way, I don't see building the Budget Resorts as a part of that.

Many people did and for several reasons. Not everyone has noticed or was concerned about every change.

 

[flicx]

I simple do not accept that they twist their polls and data to suit themselves. If profit is king, then it would be foolish to pretend something is successful that is not. These things are not for public consumption, there's no need to do that and I think they're a bit above fooling themselves.

Attendance is up, profits are up. Clearly what they're doing is working. It's been a while since the 90's, time enough for dissatisfied customers to affect the bottom line.

Sorry that you don't accept it but the writing is on the wall. There were actual screen shots of the polls on here from Disney. They were irrefutable, Disney didn't have negative feedback answers. It is also documented that they removed negative feedback from facebook about MME and fast pass plus. I think it is obvious why they do it. They are trying to sell you a product, and they have a ton of money invested in it. So much so that all of the parks could have added 3or 4 more rides for the price. It would be terrible PR to see that people don't like it. So you hype it and sell what you got . As for attendance being up we will see how that goes as they continue on. I would hardly say this whole system has been up and running for long enough to say it is responsible for that. By the way Disney also will not release those numbers either. All these actions by Disney don't seem on the up and up to me. However I digress maybe it's just me.

 

[momof2n2]

But certainly you could see where others may decide to add days for $10 each-esp with the extra FP+ ressies that could be made-even for some shorter day visits. On the cost of the entire trip it's fairly insignificant. And again-it's not just to be warm, what do you do on the 5 days off?

I know it's hard to keep track of individuals on here, but I do agree that going to "be warm" is of value. I'm a western NYer. Brrrrrrr.

We could add an extra day or two at a pretty low cost, for sure. But we like to visit other places (HolyLand Experience, Gatorland, water parks) and we love lying around the pool at the vacation house a day or three.

We are the kind of folks that "go to Florida and visit WDW"; not "go to WDW", if that makes sense.

This past May we went to FL and SKIPPED WDW. Something I never thought we'd do...

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I know it's hard to keep track of individuals on here, but I do agree that going to "be warm" is of value. I'm a western NYer. Brrrrrrr.

We could add an extra day or two at a pretty low cost, for sure. But we like to visit other places (HolyLand Experience, Gatorland, water parks) and we love lying around the pool at the vacation house a day or three.

We are the kind of folks that "go to Florida and visit WDW"; not "go to WDW", if that makes sense.

This past May we went to FL and SKIPPED WDW. Something I never thought we'd do...

Yea it can be a lot to keep up with sorry.

So you are in the camp that can see why some of us are visiting WDW for more than the parks-esp in winter. We just like to mix it into our days, instead of separate blocks/days.

Laying around a pool for 3 days? Maybe a bit much but I get it-we just would prefer to drop $10 and still go in that night for the 3 Mountains FP+, the parade and Wishes-best value for $10 in the world IMO. Were more likely to spend the $50 for 5 extra days at WDW over Holy Land but to each their own.

There is zero chance we will be in WDW or even nearby, and not at least go in for Wishes, Fantasmic or Illuminations-esp for no $10 or no additional charge on AP. Far too long between trips.

Even if we were to visit HP we would end the night at Wishes or something at WDW anyway.

 

[wisblue]

Sorry that you don't accept it but the writing is on the wall. There were actual screen shots of the polls on here from Disney. They were irrefutable, Disney didn't have negative feedback answers. It is also documented that they removed negative feedback from facebook about MME and fast pass plus. I think it is obvious why they do it. They are trying to sell you a product, and they have a ton of money invested in it. So much so that all of the parks could have added 3or 4 more rides for the price. It would be terrible PR to see that people don't like it. So you hype it and sell what you got . As for attendance being up we will see how that goes as they continue on. I would hardly say this whole system has been up and running for long enough to say it is responsible for that. By the way Disney also will not release those numbers either. All these actions by Disney don't seem on the up and up to me. However I digress maybe it's just me.

It obviously isn't just you because there are plenty of posters on this board who are sure that Disney does not care about its customers and what they think, and is so arrogant, ignorant, and short sighted that it would ram something that a majority of its customers don't want down their throats in the interest of short term profits.

Without seeing the survey you are talking about I can't comment on it, and can't even guess what its objective was. But, Disney has lots of sources for customer feedback in addition to surveys, such as comments that come through their many guest relations points in the parks and resorts. I find it hard to believe that they ignore all the negative comments that might help them to improve their service in the future.

As for removing negative comments from its Facebook page, I would be surprised if a lot of companies don't do that to some extent. There are plenty of public forums for disgruntled people to air their complaints, so there's no reason for a company to broadcast them.

 

[conandrob240]

I am shocked and disappointed to read about this ( and the FP only prediction for BOG). There are plenty of people who don't do extensive planning and if they want to come and wait for things that are important to them, so be it. Why would they take that option away? I don't get it.

 

[cakebaker]

Sorry that you don't accept it but the writing is on the wall. There were actual screen shots of the polls on here from Disney. They were irrefutable, Disney didn't have negative feedback answers. It is also documented that they removed negative feedback from facebook about MME and fast pass plus. I think it is obvious why they do it. They are trying to sell you a product, and they have a ton of money invested in it. So much so that all of the parks could have added 3or 4 more rides for the price. It would be terrible PR to see that people don't like it. So you hype it and sell what you got . As for attendance being up we will see how that goes as they continue on. I would hardly say this whole system has been up and running for long enough to say it is responsible for that. By the way Disney also will not release those numbers either. All these actions by Disney don't seem on the up and up to me. However I digress maybe it's just me.

Oh I accept that there may have been a couple of instances of poorly composed surveys. I didn't see them, so I can't really judge them, but I can accept the possibility for the sake of argument.

What I don't accept is that it's intentional on Disney's part to somehow twist the data that, btw, they don't even make us privy to, in order to convince us we're having a grand old time, when in reality, had they not put out a couple of bad surveys, we would have realized that it really sucked.

But I'm a big girl and even with twisted data and edited facebook pages, I can still tell if a vacation is worth the money all on my own. WDW is....for me....for now.

 

[flicx]

As for removing negative comments from its Facebook page, I would be surprised if a lot of companies don't do that to some extent. There are plenty of public forums for disgruntled people to air their complaints, so there's no reason for a company to broadcast them.

Because other companies do it, does that make it right for Disney to do it? Disney used to hold itself to a much higher standard before IMO.

 

[momof2n2]

Yea it can be a lot to keep up with sorry. So you are in the camp that can see why some of us are visiting WDW for more than the parks-esp in winter. We just like to mix it into our days, instead of separate blocks/days. Laying around a pool for 3 days? Maybe a bit much but I get it-we just would prefer to drop $10 and still go in that night for the 3 Mountains FP+, the parade and Wishes-best value for $10 in the world IMO. Were more likely to spend the $50 for 5 extra days at WDW over Holy Land but to each their own. There is zero chance we will be in WDW or even nearby, and not at least go in for Wishes, Fantasmic or Illuminations-esp for no $10 or no additional charge on AP. Far too long between trips. Even if we were to visit HP we would end the night at Wishes or something at WDW anyway.

DH doesn't just tolerate WDW, but I can only elevate that to "likes" WDW. Getting him to parks 5/6 days would be his limit. And while you are right in the cost per day only being $10 more pp, we don't do the math that way. I take the total price and divide by days. So $2200/5 = $440/day for 8 of us (one is < 3). If it goes to $2300 for 6 days (I think that's about right??) it's still $383/day. We'd not only pop in for a few hours at that price. (I do get how you're looking at the math, though, of adding a day. DH would not.). For us the expectations of a $383 day would be just as high as for a $440 day. Does that make sense?? I'm tired. .

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

DH doesn't just tolerate WDW, but I can only elevate that to "likes" WDW. Getting him to parks 5/6 days would be his limit. And while you are right in the cost per day only being $10 more pp, we don't do the math that way. I take the total price and divide by days. So $2200/5 = $440/day for 8 of us (one is < 3). If it goes to $2300 for 6 days (I think that's about right??) it's still $383/day. We'd not only pop in for a few hours at that price. (I do get how you're looking at the math, though, of adding a day. DH would not.). For us the expectations of a $383 day would be just as high as for a $440 day. Does that make sense?? I'm tired. .

Not to me-it is $10 for additional days that you are skipping-a fact. Your "park bill" didn't go up by $383 for the week-it went up by $10 each..

We were similar-until we stopped the commando style. He would way rather do 10 half days then 5 open to close days for $10 a day more, by far.

 

[wisblue]

Because other companies do it, does that make it right for Disney to do it? Disney used to hold itself to a much higher standard before IMO.

I guess I don't think Disney or any company should feel obligated to provide a public forum to allow people (who might include employees of competitors posing as customers) to bash them.

 

[cakebaker]

I guess I don't think Disney or any company should feel obligated to provide a public forum to allow people (who might include employees of competitors posing as customers) to bash them.

I agree.

If you have a problem with WDW, and aren't just looking to bad mouth them, Facebook is not where you go to solve it.

 

[momof2n2]

Not to me-it is $10 for additional days that you are skipping-a fact. Your "park bill" didn't go up by $383 for the week-it went up by $10 each.. We were similar-until we stopped the commando style. He would way rather do 10 half days then 5 open to close days for $10 a day more, by far.

I completely understand where you are coming from. But my head just doesn't work that way. Yes, I can drive the daily cost down by adding days, but I only get more for my money if I am truly getting more out of every single hour available to me. Which is why I hate that DAK is open a few hours less per day as the other parks. I can't stand the idea of not being in ANY PARK on any trip every last minute as we are allowed.
Yup - I'm the person who squeezes a penny til Lincoln screams. And you wouldn't be the first person who shook your head at me.

A few years ago we went to Sesame Place with friends for three nights/two days. Second day in, after they'd "done it all" they decided to leave at like 4:30. Park didn't close until 9. They were satisfied. We'd done all the same things, but knew we had 4.5 hours left we'd paid for. They couldn't see why we'd stay with our tiring kids to just repeat stuff we'd already done. We couldn't see why they'd leave and throw away what they'd paid for. Our logic is even if we only have a little fun it was better than having no fun. Their logic was leave and go somewhere nice for dinner would make for a better day. Neither was right or wrong. But we tour parks differently.

"I'm stacy, and I'm a commando."