TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Exactly. At some point the only way to reduce the issues associated with high demand without increasing supply is to reduce demand.

Yep-they need to move on and start adding attractions (although even a 5th park won't effect the popularity of TSM/A&E/7DMT etc IMO-they would still be gone at 12:01), I mean even all the massive improvements down the road haven't effected them that I can tell. I have no problem with them spending/implementing FP+ etc-just start adding to the available pool.

If I can select 8 per day because of expansion-I would be happy.

The only other way to reduce demand is jack the prices further-which I'm OK with as well-and I do think some of these "extra charge events" are exactly that-a way to offer a break to some from the complete madness.

 

[Laketravis]

I'm reminded of a joke about a job interview:

Interviewer: What would you consider to be your biggest weakness?
Candidate: Honesty.
Interviewer: I wouldn't think honesty would be considered a weakness.
Candidate: Well, I don't really care what you think.

 

[JadeQ]

Spot on.

For those who think this is a test of "virtual queueing" or to see how many FP's don't show in order to test having 1, 2 or 3 FP+ only tracks ----- this test is garbage.

It will show nothing of the sort: since they didn't announce it.

How is any data they're collecting anything like what it would be on a regular day?

Random people showing up expecting to ride SB being told they can't.

Now, they have to manage/figure out their already reserved 3 FP+ selections, head to a kiosk, figure out how to change the rest of their already planned day, and fit in the new time that comes up.

Or, maybe just throw up their hands and say to heck with it.

No wonder cars are running empty

Garbage data

So, they are either testing something else (I hope), or they've completely skewed the test to meet their intended and desired results.

The 2nd option scares the heck out of me....

This is disrespectful with the customer .

 

[mbrittb00]

. . . I see no reason to believe that the software costs anywhere close to what two new theme parks would have cost.

A little over 2 years ago, when all the FP+ testing began, it was generally accepted that to that point Disney had put roughly $1B into the FP+/MM+ idea. If we assume that that number is correct, then it is safe to estimate that to date their total expense on FP+ is in the $1.5B to $2B range.

I agree that that wouldn't be enough to build a single park (let alone two) from the ground up. However it would be more than enough to do some major re-theaming like Universal has done twice now since Disney's last new major attraction (TSMM) opened (in 2008).

I think some people like the new system because 4) they like to plan ahead and have three FP+ booked when they enter the park and 5) they didn't like the old system of collecting FP. There's nothing wrong with feeling that way, although we can debate whether the majority of Disney's guests feel the same.

But when I was planning a spring 2014 trip, there were plenty of people on disboards who claimed that a major purpose of FP+ was to save the newbies from the whiny, spoiled superusers, which has been shown not to be true at all. Lots of people also very defensively pointed out back then that standby is always an option. Maybe it just wasn't for those unfortunate enough to plan their trips of a lifetime this week, or maybe this is a sign of future plans. I can't help remembering summer and fall 2013 when some scoffed at those who believed FP+ was going to replace regular FP.

We have been to WDW many times, and had learned to use the FP system to our advantage, so I'll admit that I have been a bit resistive to the new FP+ system. Still I am trying to keep an open mind. We have a vacation planned for the end of this month. Once we are in the parks I may find that I enjoy not having to "run" from place to place to pick up fast passes. However, so far through the planning stages I am not thrilled with the system, and in fact I'm a little fed up with Disney in general at the moment.

I agree that pre-reserving FP+ is great for some, especially those who don't want to get up for rope drop. However to me it feels like our trip is too micro managed, and doesn't allow for much (if any) flexibility.

 

[vacationer1954]

A little over 2 years ago, when all the FP+ testing began, it was generally accepted that

By whom? Let's work from undoubtedly correct numbers, for both cost of the software and the cost of two new theme parks as was mentioned earlier in thread, or let's not try to make any points with numbers at all.

I agree that that wouldn't be enough to build a single park (let alone two) from the ground up. However it would be more than enough to do some major re-theaming like Universal has done twice now since Disney's last new major attraction (TSMM) opened (in 2008).

I consider the Fantasyland re-design more significant than you do. And I believe that money invested in a more reservations based experience across four theme parks far is more valuable than a "major re-theming". It has a much greater chance of making our family's vacation better.

I also don't think Disney needs to do what Universal needs to do. Universal has a long way to go to get to where Disney is already, in terms of entertaining our family.

 

[bwang123]

A little over 2 years ago, when all the FP+ testing began, it was generally accepted that to that point Disney had put roughly $1B into the FP+/MM+ idea. If we assume that that number is correct, then it is safe to estimate that to date their total expense on FP+ is in the $1.5B to $2B range.

I agree that that wouldn't be enough to build a single park (let alone two) from the ground up. However it would be more than enough to do some major re-theaming like Universal has done twice now since Disney's last new major attraction (TSMM) opened (in 2008).

But you are thinking like a fan. Disney sees FP+ as a money maker. They probably had a meeting to compare the cost of adding rides and what it would cost to implement FP+ and the money each would generate. Its possible they felt FP+ would return more money overall.

 

[flicx]

And I believe that money invested in a more reservations based experience across four theme parks far is more valuable than a "major re-theming". It has a much greater chance of making our family's vacation better.

I also don't think Disney needs to do what Universal needs to do. Universal has a long way to go to get to where Disney is already, in terms of entertaining our family.

Sorry gotta disagree whole heartedly here. Disney used to do in the 90's what universal is currently doing. Build attractions. It is what is bringing in the a lot of the bacon still today. I 'll tell you this, if Disney used the money for attractions they would be more popular than ever. I can really see how this kinda move has done damage and will cost them future business. Especially if they push forward with this reservation only system with no stand by!!!

 

[vacationer1954]

I 'll tell you this, if Disney used the money for attractions they would be more popular than ever.

That would be horrible. Disney is already more than popular enough for me and given how long people say they would be willing to wait in standby lines if there were to still be any already more than popular enough for Disney.

 

[Laketravis]

Disney used to do in the 90's what universal is currently doing. Build attractions. It is what is bringing in a lot of the bacon still today.

Proof they can benefit from something performed two decades ago. The time lag between actions and results for WDW is immense.

They won't know the full impact (positive or negative) of what they've done over the last couple of years for many more years to come.

 

[vacationer1954]

And that's true even if the actual result of what they're doing over the last couple of years will be positive as I believe it will be.

 

[wisblue]

One thing that I keep thinking about is what those individuals in a virtual line will do with their extra time. Stand in another line of course. I keep hearing that Disney hopes that people will shop and eat more but a person can only shop and eat so much. People will be full and have plenty of souvenirs so they will be looking for something else to do if they are waiting in one of the virtual lines. The only things left are riding other rides or enjoying entertainment. Disney appears to be gradually cutting back on entertainment so that won't help much. The only thing left is wait in line at other rides.

Is there any reason to believe that lines for lesser rides won't increase in length?

Presumably they would do exactly what people did while they waited for their paper FP return times to come up. Or what they do now after they have acquired their additional FPs.

Your assumption seems to be that Disney only wants people out of lines so that they will spend more money. While I'm sure that they would love it if a guest spends more, I think that (despite what a lot of posters here seem to think) Disney is interested in having its guests have an enjoyable experience. I would bet that one of the most frequent complaints they hear from guests (especially first time and infrequent guests) is that they spent so much time in lines.

Well, if I was on a once in a lifetime trip and really wanted to ride Soarin, I would rather be told to come back in 90 minutes and wait in line for 30 minutes than to wait 2 hours starting immediately. Maybe in that hour and a half you could have lunch, stroll through the Seas, ride Living with the Land or Imagination, or look at some of the Flower and Garden exhibits (in season).

The concern that shortening standby lines at some attractions would increase lines at other attractions is exactly the concern that people had when paper FPs first came out. I have a hard time reconciling how someone can think paper FP was wonderful but that doing something to shorten standby lines at some of the most popular attractions is sinister. Unless, of course, your goal is to make some less experienced guests wait in long lines while you round up FPs so that you don't have to wait for anything.

 

[indimom3]

We were at DHS yesterday.
We had gone to EMH there on Sunday evening, expecting to ride TSM a few times. It was broken down basically all of EMH, every time we checked. I don't know why.
So I told the kids, if we get up early today and make rope drop, we will be able to ride TSMM at least once, probably twice, and then we have FP for around noon....

We did miss rope drop thanks to missing a bus, but still got there well before ten. The park was not crowded and we were denied SB, of course. But told we could come back during our FP time. Or, cancel ALL of our FP to try for an earlier one. I was speaking with one of the manager types and trying to wrap my head around this.

I did all of my homework. I spent HOURS trying to understand the FP system, booking my rides sixty days out, staying on property for seven nights to make sure we could get it all done. What in the wide world of sports have you done? My kids think I lied to them, that I tricked them into waking up at the crack of dawn to come over here and now the one stupid ride they want to ride in your whole stupid park, we can't ride it?

I made the cast member talk to my kids. No way will I be the bad guy when this is not my decision. My nine year old called him out when he started to explain this was a test. "You didn't tell us you were testing anyone. It's like you're changing the rules in the middle of the game. That's not fair."

And that's the bottom line. IT IS NOT FAIR. Yeah, I'm whining like a nine year old. If you don't want people waiting in line, plan that out ahead of time. Warn us that we are spending thousands of dollars on a vacation to play guinea pig for you.

I was punished because I played by their rules. I scheduled FP, and would have had to release them and risk the rest of my day there to ride that one stupid ride.

Did it ruin our whole vacation? No. Of course not. We are having lots of fun.

But, man, I love Disney world. It should be more than fun. When I was a little kid in Jacksonville, before Epcot was born, I wanted to be Cinderella in the MSEP when I grew up. It's one of those places that sings to me. And you made my kids sad, and they don't trust you anymore. All afternoon yesterday and this morning, when were on our way to ohana. "Is Mickey still at ohana? What if he's not? What if that changed and they didn't tell you? What if they do another test tonight and we don't see Belle?"

I'm not sure this place will sing to them like it sings to me. And that is sad.

The worst part is they did nothing. The cast member said he couldn't help us, or he'd just have to give extra FP to everyone. To which I replied, yeah, or you could just let us WAIT IN LINE which is what we were expecting to do. They did offer to put the day back on our tickets if we wanted to leave. Which meant nothing because we have park hoppers. It was a really bad experience. And when our window did open, walking back through their cadre of CMS shouting, "fast pass only!" Did not help. We got to ride once, then the FP were (allegedly) done for the day.

We spent eight total hours in DHS. Between the EMH and yesterday. Rode TSMM once. ONCE. That stinks. We were supposed to do another half day at DHS before we go, and the kids have already said they won't go back. They love Star Tours but we've ridden it nine times already. What else is there for them? RNRC and ToT are too much for them, they are too old for the Disney Jr junk. You have a barn full of snow. We live in COLORADO. Not interested.

I hate that we got stuck here during this time. We will absolutely not come back until they figure out how to make this system work for their guests, and not just their pocket books.

 

[g-dad66]

We were at DHS yesterday.
We had gone to EMH there on Sunday evening, expecting to ride TSM a few times. It was broken down basically all of EMH, every time we checked. I don't know why.
So I told the kids, if we get up early today and make rope drop, we will be able to ride TSMM at least once, probably twice, and then we have FP for around noon....

We did miss rope drop thanks to missing a bus, but still got there well before ten. The park was not crowded and we were denied SB, of course. But told we could come back during our FP time. Or, cancel ALL of our FP to try for an earlier one. I was speaking with one of the manager types and trying to wrap my head around this.

I did all of my homework. I spent HOURS trying to understand the FP system, booking my rides sixty days out, staying on property for seven nights to make sure we could get it all done. What in the wide world of sports have you done? My kids think I lied to them, that I tricked them into waking up at the crack of dawn to come over here and now the one stupid ride they want to ride in your whole stupid park, we can't ride it?

I made the cast member talk to my kids. No way will I be the bad guy when this is not my decision. My nine year old called him out when he started to explain this was a test. "You didn't tell us you were testing anyone. It's like you're changing the rules in the middle of the game. That's not fair."

And that's the bottom line. IT IS NOT FAIR. Yeah, I'm whining like a nine year old. If you don't want people waiting in line, plan that out ahead of time. Warn us that we are spending thousands of dollars on a vacation to play guinea pig for you.

I was punished because I played by their rules. I scheduled FP, and would have had to release them and risk the rest of my day there to ride that one stupid ride.

Did it ruin our whole vacation? No. Of course not. We are having lots of fun.

But, man, I love Disney world. It should be more than fun. When I was a little kid in Jacksonville, before Epcot was born, I wanted to be Cinderella in the MSEP when I grew up. It's one of those places that sings to me. And you made my kids sad, and they don't trust you anymore. All afternoon yesterday and this morning, when were on our way to ohana. "Is Mickey still at ohana? What if he's not? What if that changed and they didn't tell you? What if they do another test tonight and we don't see Belle?"

I'm not sure this place will sing to them like it sings to me. And that is sad.

The worst part is they did nothing. The cast member said he couldn't help us, or he'd just have to give extra FP to everyone. To which I replied, yeah, or you could just let us WAIT IN LINE which is what we were expecting to do. They did offer to put the day back on our tickets if we wanted to leave. Which meant nothing because we have park hoppers. It was a really bad experience. And when our window did open, walking back through their cadre of CMS shouting, "fast pass only!" Did not help. We got to ride once, then the FP were (allegedly) done for the day.

We spent eight total hours in DHS. Between the EMH and yesterday. Rode TSMM once. ONCE. That stinks. We were supposed to do another half day at DHS before we go, and the kids have already said they won't go back. They love Star Tours but we've ridden it nine times already. What else is there for them? RNRC and ToT are too much for them, they are too old for the Disney Jr junk. You have a barn full of snow. We live in COLORADO. Not interested.

I hate that we got stuck here during this time. We will absolutely not come back until they figure out how to make this system work for their guests, and not just their pocket books.

So sorry about your terrible experience.

Hope you send this to WDW. Your write-up delivers quite a punch!

 

[cakebaker]

You voiced an opinion about it in the post I quoted above.

I seriously have no idea what your point is, but no I didn't.

Someone, posted this:

I don't think that it is the fact that you like the new system. Many of the fp+ "haters" agree that the new system will work better for some guest. It is the fact that you seem to insist that it was a better idea for Disney to spend the amount of money they did on this new system instead of building more rides wouldn't have made a higher percentage of guest happy.

I've never commented on whether or not Disney would've made more guests happy building rides vs the fp+ system until I answered that post. If you want to hunt and see if you can find where I did, feel free.


From the other thread you pulled over to this thread I responded:

I would much prefer to see them update, replace old outdated rides when they need it and frankly, start keeping the place sparkling like they used to. I don't need another thrill ride.

That was my response in regards to building new rides-And I still think that, word for word. But even then I'm not talking about making more guests happy. And, I don't see anything in that statement about the new fp+ system.


Again, what the hell is your point?

 

[ghtx]

And that's the bottom line. IT IS NOT FAIR. Yeah, I'm whining like a nine year old. If you don't want people waiting in line, plan that out ahead of time. Warn us that we are spending thousands of dollars on a vacation to play guinea pig for you.

Even though I agree with their idea in principle, I agree that it was a lousy idea to spring it as an "unannounced test" and inconvenience people like you who planned ahead.

But, if it makes you feel any better, though you rode TSMM just once instead of your planned three times, that means that two other families got to ride it instead of you, and maybe without the new system those two families wouldn't have been able to ride it, even once. It that more or less "fair"? I don't know.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I agree that pre-reserving FP+ is great for some, especially those who don't want to get up for rope drop. However to me it feels like our trip is too micro managed, and doesn't allow for much (if any) flexibility.

I totally agree. I've micromanaged my family's vacations before and vowed never to make that mistake again because it just wasn't fun. Most people, like my DH, think I go overboard researching and planning vacations. I really can't imagine that most vacation-goers want to plan to this degree, but I do recognize some do and are disproportionately likely to be on disboards.

 

[vacationer1954]

I have a hard time reconciling how someone can think paper FP was wonderful but that doing something to shorten standby lines at some of the most popular attractions is sinister. Unless, of course, your goal is to make some less experienced guests wait in long lines while you round up FPs so that you don't have to wait for anything.

I hope there aren't too many people who look at visiting WDW as a competition between them and guests who know less. Vacationing shouldn't be like your career. You shouldn't have to spend years working your way up the ladder to get the corner office. I remember reading several years ago that on average people spend about ten hours planning a vacation. It should not take much longer than that to be able to get as much out of WDW as any other guest paying the same amount. I hope the people who spend more time planning their vacations spend that much time because they enjoy it not because it gives them some unfair advantage over the average vacationer.

 

[g-dad66]

Even though I agree with their idea in principle, I agree that it was a lousy idea to spring it as an "unannounced test" and inconvenience people like you who planned ahead.

But, if it makes you feel any better, though you rode TSMM just once instead of your planned three times, that means that two other families got to ride it instead of you, and maybe without the new system those two families wouldn't have been able to ride it, even once. It that more or less "fair"? I don't know.

I don't know about that.

From the reports we have gotten about cars being half-filled or empty, it could just mean that there were two more empty cars than there otherwise would have been.

 

[grimley1968]

We were at DHS yesterday.
We had gone to EMH there on Sunday evening, expecting to ride TSM a few times. It was broken down basically all of EMH, every time we checked. I don't know why.
So I told the kids, if we get up early today and make rope drop, we will be able to ride TSMM at least once, probably twice, and then we have FP for around noon....

We did miss rope drop thanks to missing a bus, but still got there well before ten. The park was not crowded and we were denied SB, of course. But told we could come back during our FP time. Or, cancel ALL of our FP to try for an earlier one. I was speaking with one of the manager types and trying to wrap my head around this.

I did all of my homework. I spent HOURS trying to understand the FP system, booking my rides sixty days out, staying on property for seven nights to make sure we could get it all done. What in the wide world of sports have you done? My kids think I lied to them, that I tricked them into waking up at the crack of dawn to come over here and now the one stupid ride they want to ride in your whole stupid park, we can't ride it?

I made the cast member talk to my kids. No way will I be the bad guy when this is not my decision. My nine year old called him out when he started to explain this was a test. "You didn't tell us you were testing anyone. It's like you're changing the rules in the middle of the game. That's not fair."

And that's the bottom line. IT IS NOT FAIR. Yeah, I'm whining like a nine year old. If you don't want people waiting in line, plan that out ahead of time. Warn us that we are spending thousands of dollars on a vacation to play guinea pig for you.

I was punished because I played by their rules. I scheduled FP, and would have had to release them and risk the rest of my day there to ride that one stupid ride.

Did it ruin our whole vacation? No. Of course not. We are having lots of fun.

But, man, I love Disney world. It should be more than fun. When I was a little kid in Jacksonville, before Epcot was born, I wanted to be Cinderella in the MSEP when I grew up. It's one of those places that sings to me. And you made my kids sad, and they don't trust you anymore. All afternoon yesterday and this morning, when were on our way to ohana. "Is Mickey still at ohana? What if he's not? What if that changed and they didn't tell you? What if they do another test tonight and we don't see Belle?"

I'm not sure this place will sing to them like it sings to me. And that is sad.

The worst part is they did nothing. The cast member said he couldn't help us, or he'd just have to give extra FP to everyone. To which I replied, yeah, or you could just let us WAIT IN LINE which is what we were expecting to do. They did offer to put the day back on our tickets if we wanted to leave. Which meant nothing because we have park hoppers. It was a really bad experience. And when our window did open, walking back through their cadre of CMS shouting, "fast pass only!" Did not help. We got to ride once, then the FP were (allegedly) done for the day.

We spent eight total hours in DHS. Between the EMH and yesterday. Rode TSMM once. ONCE. That stinks. We were supposed to do another half day at DHS before we go, and the kids have already said they won't go back. They love Star Tours but we've ridden it nine times already. What else is there for them? RNRC and ToT are too much for them, they are too old for the Disney Jr junk. You have a barn full of snow. We live in COLORADO. Not interested.

I hate that we got stuck here during this time. We will absolutely not come back until they figure out how to make this system work for their guests, and not just their pocket books.

I'm so sorry to read this, and hope the rest of your trip is better than that.

This is just the kind of thing I thought would happen with this "experiment", and I imagine it is happening thousands of times in the last few days. It reminds me of the Griswold family arriving at Wally World only to find it closed, though I don't mean to shed light on the quoted post. It's incredibly shabby treatment of guests by Disney.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I hope there aren't too many people who look at visiting WDW as a competition between them and guests who know less. Vacationing shouldn't be like your career. You shouldn't have to spend years working your way up the ladder to get the corner office. I remember reading several years ago that on average people spend about ten hours planning a vacation. It should not take much longer than that to be able to get as much out of WDW as any other guest paying the same amount. I hope the people who spend more time planning their vacations spend that much time because they enjoy it not because it gives them some unfair advantage over the average vacationer.

It is so complex to now plan a Disney Vacation. You can just book a room, buy tickets, and show up, but you won't get to do nearly as much as you should be able to.

If you're unaware what ADRs and FP+ are, then you're really kind of screwed when you vacation at WDW.

We enjoy planning our WDW vacation, but not to the level it is now required. I believe my wife spent 7 or 8 hours on the phone with Disney earlier this year because of FP+ problems before we arrived on site. That doesn't count how many hours we planned everything else.

It's almost like you need to take a Disney 101 class 6 months before you arrive onsite for first timers.

It's too complicated.