TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[disnut1149]

this maybe true lugnut but it's also very sad.

As other's said(and I've not read all the post) I feel bad for the first timer's who may not be Disney savvy or researches to death a vacation.

I too am a long time guest and I have been spending less time and money on the mouse. I still totally have a good time but I agree with you, I know that Disney is no longer a great value.

Now I don't expect my one family to make a difference but I do long for the days when Disney thought of guest as actual vacationers instead of a number.

to those that don't see this as any thing permanent, remember all the folks who said that the fast pass kiosk would not go away. LOL, they got rid of them 2 weeks after magic bands and fp+ came on the scene.


They are doing away with standby lines. Period. I'm almost willing to be a paycheck that maybe by next summer the headliners will not have standby lines at all.

I agree with this!

 

[mom2rtk]

The results will be great for them if they are testing b because they are only surveying people who got to ride lol

Shhhhh!!!! That's on a need to know basis. And they probably don't want anyone pointing that out.

 

[cakebaker]

They still are. People have and will always complain. Nothing is different.

Yup.

There's a reason that on our trip WDW was packed while the place down the street was a virtual ghost town.

 

[eliza61]

I certainly never claimed that fp+ would make it easier for newbies. For us, WDW has always been the most time consuming, planning intensive vacation we ever take. Looking back the first few trips we made were just practice runs learning how the system works. It was a long time before we could actually fully enjoy all the parks. WDW will never be an easy to plan vacation, not if you don't want to miss out on a lot.

You still can use standby. There is no evidence to suggest that this testing is a precursor to a standby free park. It's all rumor and conjecture and honestly a lot of Dis hysteria. The most likely theory is this is a test in advance of the expansion of TSMM. It's a test they obviously have to do and one that has to be done with people in the park.

Sleeping in not a benefit of fp+ for us. I hate sleeping in at WDW, in fact anytime any one of us complain about tired, someone will, without fail, say suck it up, we can sleep at home. We're at a park opening every morning. FP+ simply made park hopping possible and effective.

I realize it's disappointing, but one should never base the success of their trip on a single ride nor tell their children we ARE doing this, that or the other. You never know going in to a park that THE ride you love is going to be up and running. And to the kid that's disappointed, it makes no difference to them if the ride is down because of mechanical difficulties or not. Not riding, is not riding.

But there's a difference. first if a ride is down from mechanical difficulties a lot of times you have the opportunity to ride it again when it's fixed and usually that's within the day. With this exclusiveness you don't have an option. Don't get the fp+ don't ride.

When diseny converts all their majors to fp+ only, and they will because Disney rarely test any thing. Mark my words soon if you don't have a fp+ you wont' be able to ride any major ride. Now I don't think it's hysteria but you are right, all I've got is experience. When fp+ first came out, every one was saying they'd never get rid of the fp kiosk but they didn't last 2 weeks after.

Ok, so you don't sleep in, I guess the inference is because you don't do your vacation like that, that is the correct way to go to Disney.

We do like to sleep in and go leisure. I'm up at 4:30 every day in my real life, why in all that is holy do I want to get up at the crack of dawn on vacation. My kids are scheduled every day in real life. we don't enjoy it on vacation. I don't care what the venue is. My point is different strokes for different folks.

 

[eliza61]

If that's true, it seems more likely that they would replace standby lines with a Dumbo-like virtual queue system rather than rides "by appointment only".

Honestly, my biggest concern is that Disney is not more sophisticated in their crowd management already. They used to be the best at it, but since they increased crowd levels, it's like they're at a loss for what to do. The fact that they're standing out there with clipboards and running studies in real time, impacting people's vacations, and not running numbers through a piece of software and doing this all behind the scenes is kind of shocking to me. A company the size of Disney must employ mathematicians and programmers for exactly this sort of thing, surely?* I mean, we're talking about something that should have been in place 15-20 years ago.

And the thing is Strange, what they do is not really crowd management. what they do is designed to simply increase the number of crowds without any thought to the consequences . basically to increase profits. Now don't get me wrong, make money that's great. I love wdw I want it to stick around for oodles of years but I always ask when they make changes, "what is the benefit for the consumer"?

this has no benefit at all that I can see.

 

[JanaDee]

My two cents worth.

First, I am strongly opposed to totally eliminating the standby line for any ride.

But, I am far from convinced that this "test" is a sign that complete elimination of any standby lines is coming on a regular basis. I think that what they may be doing is trying to see if they can manage the distribution of FPs in a way that would maintain a steady flow of guests onto an attraction without creating an undesirably long wait for FP holders or wasted capacity. This could be part of the consideration of whether a "FP Only" track for TSMM would be feasible.

I have thought from the beginning that one possible feature of MM+/FP+ could eventually be a "virtual queue" system that would eliminate the standby lines of an hour or longer that frequently develop quickly at a couple of the most popular attractions, especially on very busy days. My idea is that the standby line could be allowed to reach a certain length to ensure that there will always be enough guests in line to keep the ride operating at maximum capacity. But, once the line reaches a certain length (such as 45-60 minutes) anyone wishing to go standby would be assigned a time at which they could return to the standby line. So, instead of waiting in that line for 90-120 minutes or more, the guest could do other things and then wait 45-60 minutes in the line later. By using MDE and the magic bands, it should be possible to ensure that each guest can only have a space in one virtual queue at a time.

I think that some standby line is necessary to avoid wasted capacity on a ride, especially at the very beginning and very end of the day. Even if enough FPs are issued to cover capacity for the whole day, the ebb and flow of people returning (and no shows) will create peaks and gaps in the number of guests in the boarding area. Even the current test at TSMM recognizes that, as the reports have been that the standby line is open for a short time after the park opens and at least some times after that.

In the meantime, I'm willing to see where this goes before getting too worked up about it.

Great idea! Let's call it...hmmm, I've got it! Fast pass!

 

[FLchick415]

I wouldn't be so quick to state anything as fact when nobody knows WHY Disney is doing what they're doing. Just because that's what you THINK they're doing it for, doesn't make it so.

 

[JanaDee]

Canceling our complete 10 day trip in November - sick with their whole games and mandatory planning - for what used to be a fun filled relaxed vacation. We are going elsewhere where we 'know' we won't be stressed - actually that's what 'our' vacations are for and will be.

I know how you feel. This is the first October in 7 years we aren't going and don't plan on going back.

We may go in four or five years when my infant nephew is older, but even that may be a hard sell.

I visited WDW 2-4 times a year for the last 7 years and honestly, it makes me sad to see what has happened to a place I loved.

 

[eliza61]

I wouldn't be so quick to state anything as fact when nobody knows WHY Disney is doing what they're doing. Just because that's what you THINK they're doing it for, doesn't make it so.

LOL, that' could pretty much be said about every thing.

You're right, no one knows what's in Iger's mind. He does what he wants but remember many of these companies run on their reputation. why do you think the protect their public perception so fiercely.
Why do you think so many companies dropped that football player when he beat up his wife?
So believe me companies most certainly care about what it's customers think about them.

So not explaining a change is not necessarily a good thing, you could get a whole bunch of folks who start thinking of you as money grabbing greedy mices who care nothing about their guest.

Not so good for business.

I'm speculating based on past performance which as a businesswoman I know is not an indication of future results.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I realize it's disappointing, but one should never base the success of their trip on a single ride nor tell their children we ARE doing this, that or the other. You never know going in to a park that THE ride you love is going to be up and running. And to the kid that's disappointed, it makes no difference to them if the ride is down because of mechanical difficulties or not. Not riding, is not riding.

I feel that psychologically there's a huge difference between a mechanical problem that's no one's fault and something done intentionally without warning and without regard for individual guests paying big money for a once in a lifetime experience. The negative emotions are going to be harder to set aside. Even for kids, it's much easier for mom to explain that the ride is broken than to explain that some kids get to ride but we can't because we also wanted to ride the coaster and we thought we could ride TSMM first thing in the morning (or play on the i-pod during our long wait) but now Disney says we can't. Then they get home and read on the internet that they should have been checking every hour on the hour. The people I always feel sorry for are the families who planned and researched and then had the rules changed at the last minute. And because it's TSMM at DHS, with its limited rides for kids, it's much harder to move on to something else equally appealing than it would be at MK.

 

[kelleybean]

Honestly, my biggest concern is that Disney is not more sophisticated in their crowd management already. They used to be the best at it, but since they increased crowd levels, it's like they're at a loss for what to do. The fact that they're standing out there with clipboards and running studies in real time, impacting people's vacations, and not running numbers through a piece of software and doing this all behind the scenes is kind of shocking to me. A company the size of Disney must employ mathematicians and programmers for exactly this sort of thing, surely?* I mean, we're talking about something that should have been in place 15-20 years ago.

That's exactly what I was thinking but you said it much better than I could. They couldn't think of ANY other way to run this "test"? How could the data that they are gathering be so valuable that it is worth causing this much anger and confusion for their paying customers?

I'm with others that think that Disney is moving in the direction of getting rid of their SB lines. They have tested this on at least three attractions (Soarin', A&E, and Toy Story. Didn't they also try something with Winnie the Pooh at Epcot or did they change their mind?). We live nearby and occasionally do stay-cations at Disney. This type of thing really turns me off, especially never knowing if there would be a last minute major change affecting my vacation. Which makes me sad because I love Disney.

 

[FLchick415]

I definitely agree that they could have, and SHOULD have, handled this much better, but I'm not going to assume it's for any one thing when it could be for something completely different.

 

[mesaboy2]

My two cents worth.

First, I am strongly opposed to totally eliminating the standby line for any ride.

But, I am far from convinced that this "test" is a sign that complete elimination of any standby lines is coming on a regular basis. I think that what they may be doing is trying to see if they can manage the distribution of FPs in a way that would maintain a steady flow of guests onto an attraction without creating an undesirably long wait for FP holders or wasted capacity. This could be part of the consideration of whether a "FP Only" track for TSMM would be feasible.

I have thought from the beginning that one possible feature of MM+/FP+ could eventually be a "virtual queue" system that would eliminate the standby lines of an hour or longer that frequently develop quickly at a couple of the most popular attractions, especially on very busy days. My idea is that the standby line could be allowed to reach a certain length to ensure that there will always be enough guests in line to keep the ride operating at maximum capacity. But, once the line reaches a certain length (such as 45-60 minutes) anyone wishing to go standby would be assigned a time at which they could return to the standby line. So, instead of waiting in that line for 90-120 minutes or more, the guest could do other things and then wait 45-60 minutes in the line later. By using MDE and the magic bands, it should be possible to ensure that each guest can only have a space in one virtual queue at a time.

I think that some standby line is necessary to avoid wasted capacity on a ride, especially at the very beginning and very end of the day. Even if enough FPs are issued to cover capacity for the whole day, the ebb and flow of people returning (and no shows) will create peaks and gaps in the number of guests in the boarding area. Even the current test at TSMM recognizes that, as the reports have been that the standby line is open for a short time after the park opens and at least some times after that.

In the meantime, I'm willing to see where this goes before getting too worked up about it.

I don't disagree with anything here. But I must say, when combined with standard FP+ this sounds like a complicated way to get my wait "down" to 45-60 minutes.

 

[johde]

to those that don't see this as any thing permanent, remember all the folks who said that the fast pass kiosk would not go away. LOL, they got rid of them 2 weeks after magic bands and fp+ came on the scene.

They are doing away with standby lines. Period. I'm almost willing to be a paycheck that maybe by next summer the headliners will not have standby lines at all.

Another option is this truly is a test. TSMM has been rumored to be getting a third track for a long time in the area current housing the Wandering Oaken. The problem is how do you connect that area with the current load area. This test may be looking at the possibility of setting up 2 load distinct load areas and tracks like Space Mountain. But, there locations may be far enough apart they can't see one another.

So, the goal may be to run the current 2 tracks of TSMM as nearly 100% FP+ and the new single track as 100% standby. Reworking the current queue to the new load point. How do you know what trying to run a ride at 100% FP+ would look like unless you try running a ride with 100% FP+. Do people return at a consistent and random enough interval to keep the return lines short. By throwing more FP+ into the mix each hour, they are increasing the utilization and they could be seeing how it affects waits in the FP+ only return line.

The surveys could then be looking at how guest satisfactions changes as the % increases.

 

[JanaDee]

I realize it's disappointing, but one should never base the success of their trip on a single ride nor tell their children we ARE doing this, that or the other. You never know going in to a park that THE ride you love is going to be up and running. And to the kid that's disappointed, it makes no difference to them if the ride is down because of mechanical difficulties or not. Not riding, is not riding.

You have said in the past you don't go to Disney to ride rides. Many other people do.

If a ride breaks down, it will more than likely be up and running at some other point in our trip. We aren't forbidden from riding it.

 

[vacationer1954]

it's like they're at a loss for what to do.

Maybe they are looking for new ways to deal with the situation before resorting to using higher ticket prices to reduce crowding.

 

[cakebaker]

But there's a difference. first if a ride is down from mechanical difficulties a lot of times you have the opportunity to ride it again when it's fixed and usually that's within the day. With this exclusiveness you don't have an option. Don't get the fp+ don't ride.

That's true, but **** happens. If they needed to run the test, they needed to run it. They chose off season, they added additional fp's. I don't think Disney does this stuff just to piss people off. We've had things happen too and missed rides we wanted to ride through no fault of our own.

When diseny converts all their majors to fp+ only, and they will because Disney rarely test any thing. Mark my words soon if you don't have a fp+ you wont' be able to ride any major ride.

And there's the hysteria- you have no facts to back it up. No experience that tells you this is what they're after. If they're expanding the ride, perhaps they want to make the queues as efficient as possible. Who knows- maybe they want the new section to be fp only- 2 lines to be fp only- I don't know. But I see nothing to justify going crazy about it.

Ok, so you don't sleep in, I guess the inference is because you don't do your vacation like that, that is the correct way to go to Disney.


We do like to sleep in and go leisure. I'm up at 4:30 every day in my real life, why in all that is holy do I want to get up at the crack of dawn on vacation. My kids are scheduled every day in real life. we don't enjoy it on vacation. I don't care what the venue is. My point is different strokes for different folks.

If you like to sleep in, the fp+ works great- schedule afternoon fp's.

You understand I was answering a post that claimed those of us who like fp+ claim we get to sleep in- it's a comment I've heard over and over on these boards- inferring somehow that people who like to sleep in are a bit lazy? Personally, I love guests who like to sleep in, keeps the crowds light in the morning. So your snide remark is uncalled for. I never claimed my way was the only way.

I agree, different strokes-not everyone vacations the same. The old system didn't work for us, it did for you. Now the tables are turned. I understand how it is when you don't like the way they do things. We put up with it and worked around it as best we could. It was that, or don't go.

 

[Jennasis]

Or...OR...they could just build more capacity in the park.

Boom. Done.

 

[eliza61]

Another option is this truly is a test. TSMM has been rumored to be getting a third track for a long time in the area current housing the Wandering Oaken. The problem is how do you connect that area with the current load area. This test may be looking at the possibility of setting up 2 load distinct load areas and tracks like Space Mountain. But, there locations may be far enough apart they can't see one another.

So, the goal may be to run the current 2 tracks of TSMM as nearly 100% FP+ and the new single track as 100% standby. Reworking the current queue to the new load point. How do you know what trying to run a ride at 100% FP+ would look like unless you try running a ride with 100% FP+. Do people return at a consistent and random enough interval to keep the return lines short. By throwing more FP+ into the mix each hour, they are increasing the utilization and they could be seeing how it affects waits in the FP+ only return line.

The surveys could then be looking at how guest satisfactions changes as the % increases.

Cool, thanks for the alternative view. From your mouth to God's ears as my grandmother would say.

 

[mesaboy2]

That's true, but **** happens. If they needed to run the test, they needed to run it. They chose off season, they added additional fp's. I don't think Disney does this stuff just to piss people off. We've had things happen too and missed rides we wanted to ride through no fault of our own.

And there's the hysteria- you have no facts to back it up. No experience that tells you this is what they're after. They're expanding the ride. Perhaps they want to make the queues as efficient as possible. Who knows- maybe they want the new section to be fp only- 2 lines to be fp only- I don't know. But I see nothing to justify going crazy about it.

If you like to sleep in, the fp+ works great- schedule afternoon fp's.

You understand I was answering a post that claimed those of us who like fp+ claim we get to sleep in- it's a comment I've heard over and over on these boards- inferring somehow that people who like to sleep in are a bit lazy? Personally, I love guests who like to sleep in, keeps the crowds light in the morning. So your snide remark is uncalled for. I never claimed my way was the only way.

I agree, different strokes-not everyone vacations the same. The old system didn't work for us, it did for you. Now the tables are turned. I understand how it is when you don't like the way they do things. We put up with it and worked around it as best we could. It was that, or don't go.

Speaking of facts, this is not one.