TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[cakebaker]

Remember, FP return times marched forward whether people pull FPs or not. It's not like FPs that were not pulled were added on for later use.

Yes, but it happened with regularity that supply exceeded demand. That 6th fp for the same ride that was taken at 1 in the afternoon for 8 that night certainly stopped the guest that entered the park at 4 from obtaining a fp.
Since we park hop, it was a common issue that fp's were exhausted for the popular rides in the late afternoon/early evening.

Now if I want to ride TOT at 8 at night, I don't have to worry that when I arrive at 6, they're all going to be gone.

There isn't an unlimited supply of fp+ of course, but my comments are concerning how fp+ distributes what is available more equitably among guests.

 

[robinb]

Yes, but it happened with regularity that supply exceeded demand. That 6th fp for the same ride that was taken at 1 in the afternoon for 8 that night certainly stopped the guest that entered the park at 4 from obtaining a fp.
Since we park hop, it was a common issue that fp's were exhausted for the popular rides in the late afternoon/early evening.

We park hop also and even when Disney enforced return times you would be foolish to expect a mid-evening headliner FP in a park when you arrived at 4:00. That has nothing to do with FP Hoarders but more to do with unrealistic expectations.

 

[Suvadoo]

We park hop also and even when Disney enforced return times you would be foolish to expect a mid-evening headliner FP in a park when you arrived at 4:00. That has nothing to do with FP Hoarders but more to do with unrealistic expectations.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

Just got back from WDW last night. I haven't gone through all of these posts, however I agree. I don't think Disney could go with "reservation only" rides. I think it would turn people off to coming. I have read threads where the moment midnight hits on their 60 day window, not being able to get FP for some rides. I was on the Disney bus the other day heading for Epcot when I overheard a family say they had a fast pass for a specific ride (don't remember which one but it was one of the popular ones) for 3 days in a row. If you have a lot of people do this, it would block others from experiencing the attraction.

I think Disney is trying to find ways for everyone to have an opportunity to enjoy their attractions. There will always be someone trying to "game the system".

I think you're exactly right. With legacy, the hoarding of fp's was great for those who managed to do it. Not so great for people who couldn't get one due to whatever reason it was that got them to the park late.

I don't under estimate the effects that the current practice of collecting extra bands to get extra fp+'s has on they system. For every guest who uses 3-4 extra bands, there are 3-4 guests who don't get to ride at all. Hopefully, Disney will crack down on the practice. It seems a simple fix to me and I assume I'm either wrong and it's not significant or they have bigger fish to fry and will get to it in time.

So even if you personally like to ride back to back, obviously Disney does not want this to happen. I don't think they were ever set up to do what I call amusement park riding and I don't think they want to be- and that's perfectly fine with me.

So now you have guest that have long stays like 10 to 14 days able to get multiple FP+s for the same ride on more than one day and those that have short 3 to 5 night stays getting shut out of rides. What the first poster was talking about has nothing to do with those guest having more than 1 band. So I don't see how the new system made this "hording" FPs better. With the old system, if you didn't like what you got one day because of the choices you made, the next morning everything was a clean slate and you make better choices to get the things you wanted.

So do you think Disney should start limiting guest to only 1 FP+ on a popular ride for each trip to Disney. Why should those that have a 14 day stay get to have more 3 or 4 SDMT FP+s when the family that has a 3 night stay doesn't even get one?

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

But I think Disney has more incentive to make the availability of rides spread over as many guests as possible than guests do- and I don't have a problem with that either.

But Disney hasn't done this. They are allowing those with long stays into the system to book FP+s before those with shorter stays. This shows in those with long stays able to get A&E and SDMT FP+s while those with short stays being shut out. Those with long stays could even get more than 1 in the trip. Is it right that they have more than 1 SDMT or A&E FP+ in their 14 day stay when the family that has a 4 night stay isn't able to even get 1?

Disney isn't concerned with who gets FP+s except in respect to PR. They were interested in people booking FP+s to lock them into a Disney park before leaving home. This has been discussed many times. FP+ was very little about spreading FPs out in Disney's eyes, even though it has had that benefit in some's eyes, it was about people buy tickets and being locked into their parks before arriving in Orlando. If they REALLY wanted to make sure every guest got a FP+ for SDMT during their trip, then they should limit those with long stays to only getting 1 FP+ during their stay. They aren't.

 

[Suvadoo]

So now you have guest that have long stays like 10 to 14 days able to get multiple FP+s for the same ride on more than one day and those that have short 3 to 5 night stays getting shut out of rides. What the first poster was talking about has nothing to do with those guest having more than 1 band. So I don't see how the new system made this "hording" FPs better. With the old system, if you didn't like what you got one day because of the choices you made, the next morning everything was a clean slate and you make better choices to get the things you wanted.

So do you think Disney should start limiting guest to only 1 FP+ on a popular ride for each trip to Disney. Why should those that have a 14 day stay get to have more 3 or 4 SDMT FP+s when the family that has a 3 night stay doesn't even get one?[/QUOTE]
Can you imaging the amount of temper tantrums this would cause? C'mon fairness only goes so far!

 

[magicbob]

So now you have guest that have long stays like 10 to 14 days able to get multiple FP+s for the same ride on more than one day and those that have short 3 to 5 night stays getting shut out of rides. What the first poster was talking about has nothing to do with those guest having more than 1 band. So I don't see how the new system made this "hording" FPs better. With the old system, if you didn't like what you got one day because of the choices you made, the next morning everything was a clean slate and you make better choices to get the things you wanted.

So do you think Disney should start limiting guest to only 1 FP+ on a popular ride for each trip to Disney. Why should those that have a 14 day stay get to have more 3 or 4 SDMT FP+s when the family that has a 3 night stay doesn't even get one?

Herein lies the problem. Demand exceeds supply, so someone is going to go without. It's been clearly shown here that some people prefer FP+ to legacy and vice versa. There are pros and cons to both systems, but this is one of the biggest cons with FP+.

Under legacy, no matter where you were staying, no matter how long your visit, no matter whether you had a 1-day ticket or an AP, you absolutely KNEW with 100% certainty that if you chose to arrive early you WOULD get a FP for even the most popular attraction.

FP+ has some positive facets, but one of the big negatives is that the ability to get FP for some attractions is essentially out of your hands completely. You are at the mercy of timing and whether others with earlier check-ins have trips that overlap yours.

 

[cakebaker]

So now you have guest that have long stays like 10 to 14 days able to get multiple FP+s for the same ride on more than one day and those that have short 3 to 5 night stays getting shut out of rides. What the first poster was talking about has nothing to do with those guest having more than 1 band. So I don't see how the new system made this "hording" FPs better. With the old system, if you didn't like what you got one day because of the choices you made, the next morning everything was a clean slate and you make better choices to get the things you wanted.

So do you think Disney should start limiting guest to only 1 FP+ on a popular ride for each trip to Disney. Why should those that have a 14 day stay get to have more 3 or 4 SDMT FP+s when the family that has a 3 night stay doesn't even get one?

It's not a given that a 3 or 4 day stay guarantees no fp. We got all we wanted (included the popular rides) on both our trips. One was a 4 day stay, another was 5. And our trips were booked within 60 days, we didn't even have the full 60.

But why should longer stays get more? They spend more. For Disney's purposes, I don't think they're looking at spreading rides out over the length stay, rather they are distributing more evenly day to day.

 

[cakebaker]

Under legacy, no matter where you were staying, no matter how long your visit, no matter whether you had a 1-day ticket or an AP, you absolutely KNEW with 100% certainty that if you chose to arrive early you WOULD get a FP for even the most popular attraction.

That's a big if and it cut out a lot of people.

FP's were always in short supply for popular rides. I'd bet my bottom dollar if legacy was in effect right now, those fp's would be sold out within a couple of hours with hordes fogging the machines. It's that popular. Same with A&E

 

[cakebaker]

We park hop also and even when Disney enforced return times you would be foolish to expect a mid-evening headliner FP in a park when you arrived at 4:00. That has nothing to do with FP Hoarders but more to do with unrealistic expectations.

We didn't expect it. We knew it would happen. We put up with it.

Not everyone wants to join the masses at the machines at rode drop. A great many people like to come in later, a great many like to park hop. Now we don't lose the ability to get a fp+. By effectively limiting the number of times one can get a fp+, it gives more opportunities for others to ride.

 

[Suvadoo]

Under legacy, no matter where you were staying, no matter how long your visit, no matter whether you had a 1-day ticket or an AP, you absolutely KNEW with 100% certainty that if you chose to arrive early you WOULD get a FP for even the most popular attraction.

That's a big if and it cut out a lot of people.

FP's were always in short supply for popular rides. I'd bet my bottom dollar if legacy was in effect right now, those fp's would be sold out within a couple of hours with hordes fogging the machines. It's that popular. Same with A&E

You act as if you were shut out of everything if you didn't arrive early, but this wasn't the case. Yes, you could not get TSMM or Soarin' after 11am on most days because HS and Epcot have virtually no other family friendly rides! I was always able to pull FP's in MK and AK late in the day or early evening.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

That's a big if and it cut out a lot of people.

As does FP+.

FP's were always in short supply for popular rides. I'd bet my bottom dollar if legacy was in effect right now, those fp's would be sold out within a couple of hours with hordes fogging the machines. It's that popular. Same with A&E

Any paper FPs that were running out within an hour or 2 were NOT being pulled by the same guest over and over since those guest could not pull another FP until their time came up, which would not happen but for only a small few since they ran out so quick, or 2 hours after the paper FP was pulled, when they would be gone at that time.

So if we wanted to go with idea Disney is trying to make things more fair, which I do not believe, which is more fair? The only thing holding you back from getting a paper FP was the time you arrived at the park or how long you are able to stay and where you stay deciding if you are able to get one of those FPs?

FP+ is many things. Good for some. Bad for others. But more fair isn't really one of those things

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

You act as if you were shut out of everything if you didn't arrive early, but this wasn't the case. Yes, you could not get TSMM or Soarin' after 11am on most days because HS and Epcot have virtually no other family friendly rides! I was always able to pull FP's in MK and AK late in the day or early evening.

This is what our family found also. Even in June 2013 on crowd 8 and 9 days. So not in a low crowd time.

 

[magicbob]

Under legacy, no matter where you were staying, no matter how long your visit, no matter whether you had a 1-day ticket or an AP, you absolutely KNEW with 100% certainty that if you chose to arrive early you WOULD get a FP for even the most popular attraction.

That's a big if and it cut out a lot of people.

FP's were always in short supply for popular rides. I'd bet my bottom dollar if legacy was in effect right now, those fp's would be sold out within a couple of hours with hordes fogging the machines. It's that popular. Same with A&E

I agree completely. But the point is that the people it cut out had it within their power to make the choice to arrive early and get one of those FPs. Having a short trip doesn't mean that you automatically WON'T get any good FPs, but there is a pretty good chance of that happening and it's out of your control.

 

[cakebaker]

You act as if you were shut out of everything if you didn't arrive early, but this wasn't the case. Yes, you could not get TSMM or Soarin' after 11am on most days because HS and Epcot have virtually no other family friendly rides! I was always able to pull FP's in MK and AK late in the day or early evening.

LoL- And some people act the same way about fp+.

There's 1 ride at the MK that people have some trouble getting. ONE. There's 1 meet and greet. ONE. I don't recall reading any problems at AK for fp+. Tiering presents issues, but it is possible to get a fp+ for one of the headliners at least and same with HS.

But they aren't impossible to get and they almost always were under fp+ if you park hopped.

I've always said the headliner rides were the rides we had problems with. Of course the lesser rides usually had some availability.

 

[Suvadoo]

LoL- And some people act the same way about fp+.

There's 1 ride at the MK that people have some trouble getting. ONE. There's 1 meet and greet. ONE. I don't recall reading any problems at AK for fp+. Tiering presents issues, but it is possible to get a fp+ for one of the headliners at least and same with HS.

But they aren't impossible to get and they almost always were under fp+ if you park hopped.

I've always said the headliner rides were the rides we had problems with. Of course the lesser rides usually had some availability.

However in every response, you make it sound like FP+ is a panacea and it isn't. You allege that you couldn't pull legacy FP+'s in the afternoon but this was only true for a few rides, not for all!

 

[cakebaker]

This is what our family found also. Even in June 2013 on crowd 8 and 9 days. So not in a low crowd time.

So which is it? FP's were available late in the day, even at the high crowd level seasons or this:

since they ran out so quick

Because it can't be both.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

With the old system, if you didn't like what you got one day because of the choices you made, the next morning everything was a clean slate and you make better choices to get the things you wanted.

In the 1980s, my parents arrived at MK with no plan and were overwhelmed. That night, they studied the map, recalled their observations about which lines were longest, and made a simple plan of attack. The second day was awesome.

In the days of legacy FP, families arrived at MK with no plan and were overwhelmed. They read about FP on the map or asked guests about it. (We helped several families ourselves.) They noticed which rides had long lines. They started grabbing FP, and the second day they started on even footing.

In the days of FP+, families arrive at MK with no plan and are overwhelmed. Or maybe they did some reading or asked some friends, but all the info they got was out of date. Fortunately, there are CMs with i-pads to help them book some FP, but they are told that the FP+ for 7DMT and A&E were booked two months ago and their time choices for the certain attractions seem really limited (or are they? is the CM showing them everything?) and they really need to look around the park some more to know which lines are long. And they should go on their phones right now and book for the rest of the week?

 

[cakebaker]

However in every response, you make it sound like FP+ is a panacea and it isn't. You allege that you couldn't pull legacy FP+'s in the afternoon but this was only true for a few rides, not for all!

Absolutely not true. I've never said fp+ was a panacea nor have I intimated it. I said it works better for us and that with adjustments, it can work better for a lot more people than just those of us who park hop.

I said I couldn't pull fp's for the headliners. I've been quite clear on that in almost every post and since this isn't your first time at the rodeo, you know that. Yes, I could get fp's for the less popular rides- and so can everyone else right now with fp+.

So if I shouldn't complain that I couldn't get fp's for the more popular rides, you shouldn't complain that you can't. The only difference now is, you know up front what you can and cannot get so you can adjust. We wouldn't know for sure until we got to the parks just what was and wasn't available.

 

[flicx]

Glad the whole hoarding issue was put to bed. I thought maybe I missed something for years there. I also think park hopping was way easier under legacy. Disney unfortunately isn't worried about their customers with this new fastpass system, oh they will advertise it as such. No mistake about it though it is meant to drive up profits. I personally hope it blows up in their face. It sickens me to see these tests and all the other repercussions since this has started. Instead we could all be rejoicing in many new attractions and shows!