TSA - was this really necessary? UPDATED!

[aubriee]

And based on my own (admittedly, limited) experience, I stick by my belief that you are completely wrong is your assessment of TSA personnel.

However, statistically, if MOST TSA agents were as awful as you think they are, I - as a grumpy, demanding, semi-paranoid, bitter, jaded, pessimistic old cynic - should have encountered at least ONE such awful agent since TSA was established 7 or so years ago. Yet, inexplicably, I have not. Not one.

Although I have met a few who were clearly not ecstatic in their jobs, I have yet to meet one who treated me or anyone else around me poorly, violated ANY TSA or FAA rules, regs, guidelines, or Federal laws, or even came close to fitting your description of the dregs of humanity that you seem to think are the most common type of TSA agent.

I usually fly out of DFW and believe me the TSA agents at DFW are at best just hostile toward the flying public. I have yet to see one smile and God forbid you say good morning to one. Last year, my husband simply said, "good morning, how are you doing?" when one glared and snarled at him and said, "what's good about it? I'm not here to chit chat, put you bag on the belt". My husband's carry on was already on it's way through the scanner by that time, by the way.

I posted on here last year about a TSA incident that left everyone around me livid. They had the little glass booth thingy set up where the door opens, you step in, wait, they blow a puff of air at you to check for explosive residue, then another set of doors open, and you step out the other side. This was after you had already gone through the metal detector. Anyway, a few people ahead of me there was a young couple with a little boy about 3 y/o. The little boy was terrified of the glass box and didn't want to go in it by himself. They refused to let either parent carry him in. The dad walked through to show him there was nothing to be afraid of, but the little boy clung to his mother in terror. She begged the TSA agents to let him go in with her, but they refused, insisting he had to go in by himself. The mother tried her best to calm the kid down and to get him to walk in, but he was having none of it. The female TSA agent literally yelled at her, "get him in there and get him in there now!". This little boy had already walked through the metal detector by himself. He wasn't happy but his parents had apparently prepared him for it and he did it. The glass box was just too much for him though. When the little boy wouldn't let go of his mother, the TSA agent literally grabbed him out of the mother's arms and pushed him into the glass cubicle and when the door shut, the little boy started beating on the glass door, screaming and crying at the top of his lungs trying to get out. That was bad enough, but all the TSA agents standing around started laughing hysterically at him. Everyone standing in line waiting was furious and several started asking the TSA agent if it made them feel big and tough to terrorize a 3 y/o. Several people said they were going to report them. Yeah, the kid's parents could have planted a bomb on him, but why couldn't the mom walk into the cubicle with him and why couldn't they have just swabbed the kid, and why did the TSA agents all have to laugh at the kid's terror?

Sept 26th I was flying out of DFW to MCO. I was doing carry on only. In a packing cube I had a quart bag full of bath salts. They were labeled as such. For some reason the TSA was fascinated with them. As they went through the scanner, the agent called someone over to look at them. As they came out of the scanner the second agent asked whose bag it was and told me he needed to search it. He opened the quart bag, smelled of them, ran his gloved fingers through them, took some out running them through his fingers, ran a cloth over them to check them, and then just held the bag for awhile looking at them with a very confused expression on his face as if he didn't know what to do with them. I felt like saying, "excuse me they are solid, not liquid and are labeled." I assumed he was probably going to confiscate them, but he finally put them back, still looking confused and unsure if he should take them or not. I then had to repack my bag. When I got to the resort I unpacked and found that I had left a couple tubes of lip gloss and my mascara in my makeup bag. He had to move that bag out of the packing cube in order to check out the bath salts that were on the bottom.

 

[keishashadow]

I had no axe to grind until I was accused falsely of criminal misconduct on two occasions by TSAers. Now I have an axe to grind with them, you are darned tootin I do!

guess you've picked your battle i assume you are aware that there are security cameras galore in the area. The next time you're accused of criminal misconduct by TSA, why not ask to have the tape pulled? It is my understanding that you are well within your right to request special screening if you feel the 'grunts' will repeat the same sort of poor treatment you feel you've been subjected to in the past. Somebody mentioned not being able to stand without their cane. Might be best to ask to borrow a wheelchair for trip to gate for safety reasons.

IMO, it's sad to see how many look @ TSA agents attempting to do their jobs as a "them against us situation" They are not there as the welcome wagon. They are our 'visible' sign of security and why anybody would feel the need to distract them with idle chit-chat when they are trying to do their job is absurd.

Full disclosure: our family has been employed both in the military and law enforcement. I am probably biased after hearing some of the stunts people try to pull, especially when being questioned by police.

I admit to dreading my family often getting pulled for special attention in the line, and think it's a supreme waste of time & efffort. However, they are working within the system they currently have.Can't blame the agent who is following agency protocol.

I appreciate the fact that security is in place @ the airports. It may not be perfect and (as in all professions that deal with the public) there may be several bad apples that should be reported to supervisors at the time of incident for resolution.

 

[WillCAD]

I posted on here last year about a TSA incident that left everyone around me livid. They had the little glass booth thingy set up where the door opens, you step in, wait, they blow a puff of air at you to check for explosive residue, then another set of doors open, and you step out the other side. This was after you had already gone through the metal detector. Anyway, a few people ahead of me there was a young couple with a little boy about 3 y/o. The little boy was terrified of the glass box and didn't want to go in it by himself. They refused to let either parent carry him in. The dad walked through to show him there was nothing to be afraid of, but the little boy clung to his mother in terror. She begged the TSA agents to let him go in with her, but they refused, insisting he had to go in by himself. The mother tried her best to calm the kid down and to get him to walk in, but he was having none of it. The female TSA agent literally yelled at her, "get him in there and get him in there now!". This little boy had already walked through the metal detector by himself. He wasn't happy but his parents had apparently prepared him for it and he did it. The glass box was just too much for him though. When the little boy wouldn't let go of his mother, the TSA agent literally grabbed him out of the mother's arms and pushed him into the glass cubicle and when the door shut, the little boy started beating on the glass door, screaming and crying at the top of his lungs trying to get out. That was bad enough, but all the TSA agents standing around started laughing hysterically at him. Everyone standing in line waiting was furious and several started asking the TSA agent if it made them feel big and tough to terrorize a 3 y/o. Several people said they were going to report them. Yeah, the kid's parents could have planted a bomb on him, but why couldn't the mom walk into the cubicle with him and why couldn't they have just swabbed the kid, and why did the TSA agents all have to laugh at the kid's terror?

I'd love to see TSA post the video of that incident, too.

You could easily motivate them to do so by posting about the incident on the TSA blog and giving the details of what airport, date and approximate time, and a description of the family in question; since you were only a few people behind, you'd be able to verify whether they post the correct video by looking for yourself in the background.

 

[mgilmer]

guess you've picked your battle i assume you are aware that there are security cameras galore in the area. The next time you're accused of criminal misconduct by TSA, why not ask to have the tape pulled?

I did on the first instance and that is what saved my behind after the LEO looked at it. On the second incident I had a small pocket tape recorder and recorded the TSAer threatening me with a false charge. I played it back for the LEO and he actually threatened the TSAer with arrest for making a false accusation.

It is my understanding that you are well within your right to request special screening if you feel the 'grunts' will repeat the same sort of poor treatment you feel you've been subjected to in the past. Somebody mentioned not being able to stand without their cane. Might be best to ask to borrow a wheelchair for trip to gate for safety reasons.

That is what I do now when I have to fly (which is as little as I can get away with -- Hertz has become my new best friend if at all possible), but I find it a bit humiliating that I have to feign complete immobility just to keep the TSA storm troopers off my neck.

IMO, it's sad to see how many look @ TSA agents attempting to do their jobs as a "them against us situation" They are not there as the welcome wagon. They are our 'visible' sign of security and why anybody would feel the need to distract them with idle chit-chat when they are trying to do their job is absurd.

Just because they are doing security does not excuse them from basic civility. The level of professionalism at security points in Europe is miles ahead of what the TSA exhibits on a regular basis. My nephew is a LEO and he has always treated even the most base members of society (and he sees a lot of them) with a level of professionalism missing at most TSA checkpoints. As I said earlier, several recent surveys of the public put the TSA at the rock bottom in lack of trust and esteem by the public, even below the IRS.

I admit to dreading my family often getting pulled for special attention in the line, and think it's a supreme waste of time & efffort. However, they are working within the system they currently have.Can't blame the agent who is following agency protocol.

The problem is that the TSA does not follow their own protocols. Just look at the recent Brittany Spears incident where they allowed her thru a checkpoint at LAX with a Big Gulp and a bypass of the xray machine of her goods. Why? Even on the TSA blog they did double loops to try and explain this. My nephew said if he did something like this, even with a famous person (and there are a lot in Nashville), he would be sanctioned or fired.

I appreciate the fact that security is in place @ the airports. It may not be perfect and (as in all professions that deal with the public) there may be several bad apples that should be reported to supervisors at the time of incident for resolution.

I have no problem with airport security. It is needed. It is the lack of professionalism and sometimes outright hostility that I have a problem with. You do not see this in Europe of Canada. Why is it only here? As for reporting unprofessional behavior, that is what got me almost arrested twice.

 

[keishashadow]

mgilmer - thanx for your informative reply, if what you describe happened to me; i'd be upset too. Good thing you covered yourself, hope you've experienced the last of that sort of travel nightmare.

I still believe that the system is all we have and, if inherently flawed; should be overhauled through the proper channels. Perhaps, if the salary and educational requirements were improved a 'better' group of people would apply. In the meantime, we all do just need to go with the flow as best we can.

 

[pr surfer]

Hello thread.

I fly over 100k miles a year, and here are some thoughts, observations, and opinions I hold of the TSA.

They need to be gutted and restructured.

They have no accountability, they operate without external oversight even from within the government.

When they're called out on doing something wrong, they deflect or spin. When they're lied about, they immediately respond.

ID checks do not equal security, and to a degree could be actually considered illegal/unconstitutional as you're putting a restriction on travel within your own borders.

The TSO's themselves... the vast majority are blah. Not good, not bad. Just blah. I'm lucky to fly out of SJU where the vast majority are good. Unfortunately, I fly regularly to airports like BWI, MIA, EWR, and BOS which have IMO the worst of the worst.

Furthermore, I DESPISE, DEPLORE, LOATHE, CRINGE, and am DISGUSTED BY the strip search machines.

I refuse them at all airports on principle and let others know what's being seen. I'll take the pat down and will file a complaint immediately after.

They consider large amounts of cash contraband and illegal... unfortunately, THAT'S NOT THE CASE. I've was recently detained in MIA when a TSO pulled my wallet from the bin, opened it (BIG NO-NO), and saw about USD $4k in cash and GTQ (Guatemalan Quetzal) 25,000 (about $250). I was asked about the money, CBP was called and basically laughed at the TSA. I wasn't transporting more than USD $10K, and even if I was, if I declared it to the IRS, I was fine. The TSO asked why I didn't just use credit cards... even though it was none of his business, I (rather politely given I was angry) informed him that credit card acceptance and ATM availability in the third world is nowhere near as prevalent as it is in the US. He didn't reply.

Don't even get me started on their "red team" tests.

In short, they're inconsistent, unaccountable, and ineffective. The reason another 9/11 can be prevented is not because of the TSA. It's because A- the cockpit doors are locked and B- the passengers will take down a terrorist before he takes down a plane.

If anything, I worry because cargo doesn't get screened.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Unfortunately, I fly regularly to airports like BWI, MIA, EWR, and BOS which have IMO the worst of the worst.

I resent that. BOS is, at worst, average and at best, good. I've never had an issue with a BOS TSO, nor has any had issue with me.

 

[pr surfer]

I resent that. BOS is, at worst, average and at best, good. I've never had an issue with a BOS TSO, nor has any had issue with me.

Resent it all you want, I call it like I see it

I love everything to do with Boston. Except flying from Logan.

 

[WillCAD]

The TSO's themselves... the vast majority are blah. Not good, not bad. Just blah. I'm lucky to fly out of SJU where the vast majority are good. Unfortunately, I fly regularly to airports like BWI, MIA, EWR, and BOS which have IMO the worst of the worst.

Although I don't fly nearly as much as you do, BWI is my home airport, so every time I fly, it's out of and into BWI, and I've never has a bad experience with a TSO there. Admittedly, I've seen some who seem un-thrilled with their jobs, but I've never seen one break any rules or laws, or mistreat any traveler, and I have had some extremely good experiences with them. Could you give some specific examples of why you list BWI among your rogues' gallery?

Furthermore, I DESPISE, DEPLORE, LOATHE, CRINGE, and am DISGUSTED BY the strip search machines.

I refuse them at all airports on principle and let others know what's being seen. I'll take the pat down and will file a complaint immediately after.

I assume you are referring to the new backscatter x-ray machines. If so, I agree with you 100%; they are the most disgusting, invasive, and despicable use of new technology in the last decade.

If they are installed at BWI, which I believe they will be shortly, I will not be happy. However, if my only choices are A) backscatter, B) physical pat-down, or C) don't fly, I will most likely choose A, because C is not an option when I go to WDW solo (I have back trouble which prohibits drives longer than about 8 hours), and B is a far more revolting option to me than A.

On my return flight from my 40th birthday trip to Vegas in April, while waiting at the gate in LAS, I noticed a couple of travelers being patted down at a special security table to the side of the gate; meanwhile, their carry-on bags were being physically searched. It was part of some pilot program of additional, random screening.

I made up my mind, then and there, that if I was asked to submit to a pat-down, I would categorically refuse, even if it meant that I would not be allowed on the plane. I would have had to rent a car and drive at least partway home to Baltimore, but would spend an extra $200 and 2 days on the road before I allowed myself to be frisked like a common criminal just to get on a plane, AFTER I had already been screened by a metal detector and had my carry-on bag x-rayed. I will NOT allow any TSOs to put their hands on my person if I have any other choice.

 

[yrdlyprincess]

Now 2 things that I am worried about-
1- I am leaving from PHL to MCO
2- I am putting all my larger liquids in a plastic bag--ziplok

and going to have my clothes in a XXL plastic ziplok bag...I worry about this a lot, I understand that my stuff or other peoples things can leak or my luggage can be left out whenit is raining--seen it--but I think that was rude-I would have taken pictures of your bags--I think that is what I am going to do now. I'm not saying for them to NOT look in my bag-- but at least be respectful...maybe I'll put a note in there--
please put things back nicely

 

[snarlingcoyote]

Wow. Just. . .

I actually look forward to flying out of my home airport. Because I routinely carry a spare 5 port switch in my luggage when I travel for work along with all the necessary cabling, my luggage almost always gets checked by the TSA.

A couple of times I've just thrown stuff together, thinking I'd iron and maybe dry clean once I got to my location, only to open my bag and find everything neat and tidy and put in my suitcase with precision and niceness. I like to joke that this TSA agent should come and inspect my closets and my kitchen pantry and the storage shed and my car and my bookcases. . .

Usually though, everything is more or less exactly where I put it to begin with. I keep saying I'm going to get a little booklet to put in my luggage so the TSA agents can check off every time they search my luggage because of that little switch!

 

[pr surfer]

Although I don't fly nearly as much as you do, BWI is my home airport, so every time I fly, it's out of and into BWI, and I've never has a bad experience with a TSO there. Admittedly, I've seen some who seem un-thrilled with their jobs, but I've never seen one break any rules or laws, or mistreat any traveler, and I have had some extremely good experiences with them. Could you give some specific examples of why you list BWI among your rogues' gallery

BWI TSO's making up their own rules (only airport I have ever had to dump electronics out of my bag for them to search), refusing to accept the passport card, my TWIC ID, my DoD civilian ID, or my PR DL as valid ID at different times (even though all are acceptable ID's per the TSA), leafing through my passport book (they're not customs, they have no business looking through my visas and stamps), etc.

Granted, I've never been mistreated... at BWI, I've never had as much as a polite TSO. Thankfully it's winter, so now is the time of year when clients visit me

And this next part you're gonna hate.

If they are installed at BWI, which I believe they will be shortly, I will not be happy. However, if my only choices are A) backscatter, B) physical pat-down, or C) don't fly, I will most likely choose A, because C is not an option when I go to WDW solo (I have back trouble which prohibits drives longer than about 8 hours), and B is a far more revolting option to me than A.

They're already there. I believe BWI was the test site for the strip search machines.

At BWI, I've gotten what I feel to be retaliatory enhanced pat downs for my refusal to go through the strip search machine. At LAS (another airport I don't like, but thankfully don't frequent), they had the signs explaining the millimeter wave machines hidden until the last minute, making it a real inconvenience for all when someone would refuse.

 

[WillCAD]

They're already there. I believe BWI was the test site for the strip search machines.

At BWI, I've gotten what I feel to be retaliatory enhanced pat downs for my refusal to go through the strip search machine. At LAS (another airport I don't like, but thankfully don't frequent), they had the signs explaining the millimeter wave machines hidden until the last minute, making it a real inconvenience for all when someone would refuse.

I didn't see them when I flew through BWI last month to MCO, but I only went through security to Piers A & B, since I flew Southwest. They didn't appear to have those "air-puff" explosive detectors, either.

 

[ohlas]

this is why i hate to fly anymore, it just not worth the hassle anymore i would rather spend the whole day driving then dealing with those morons 8 hour lay overs not weather related making me take my shoes and belt off making my 70 year old white as white can be mother take her shoes off. and then paying thru the nose for this are we all crazy have we all drank the kool aid what is wrong or im i just crazy....

 

[crashbb]

Changed my mind

 

[bavaria]

making my 70 year old white as white can be mother take her shoes off.

ETL ETL ETL - I just need to keep telling myself it is the ETL issue....

Some please confirm that I am reading that wrong. Thank you.

 

[crashbb]

ETL ETL ETL - I just need to keep telling myself it is the ETL issue....

Some please confirm that I am reading that wrong. Thank you.

Unless we are having the same ETL issue....(and, technically, I am ETL, though English is now my main, and by far best, language).

(that would be what I decided wasn't worth pursuing).

 

[pr surfer]

ETL ETL ETL - I just need to keep telling myself it is the ETL issue....

Some please confirm that I am reading that wrong. Thank you.

While my English is impeccable, Spanish is my first and main language.

I need clarification. And some Kool Aid. I'm thirsty now.

 

[bavaria]

Three of a kind!

But I ain't drinking no Kool-Aid!

 

[Heidijs]

Question, are you talking about your checked bags or your carry on bags? I went to Vegas last year and checked our luggage. I also put straps around them and lock the luggage. When we got to the hotel I was like, ***? My stuff was just trashed inside...I have hard sided luggage too so I wonder if they went through it all?