TSA mess and the police

[skater]

I should have been clearer. I was interested in how many complaints (since that's what the pp was talking about) the aclu had gotten in the past before Nov 1.

I am frequenting other sites where flyers discuss their experiences. That isn't giving me any percents though, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.

It would be nice to know the whole story. I love anecdotes and when there are a lot of them it can give you a good picture of the truth - but not the whole picture. There's so much poor news reporting and imo so much double speak (not sure if that's the right term) from the government, that its hard to see the whole truth. I think we're getting glimpses of the truth on both sides of the issue, but that's about it.

 

[skater]

My son flies on Saturday from NYC, I fly next Tuesday, from Alb which doesn't have the new scanners and we both come back from CA, different airports (different times), I can't wait to see how that goes.

You'll have to let us know - hopefully the thread won't be locked by then .

 

[Trixieplus2]

I have never been on a flight and with all this new craziness I never will.

I am very modest and I am a rape survivor , I have no intentions of someone I don't know or trust seeing a 3d nude image of me and I most certainly will not be allowing anyone to rub me all over to "check for explosives". The new pat downs are ridiculous.

 

[DMRick]

I have never been on a flight and with all this new craziness I never will.

Just curious. Did you have any plans on going on a flight before the new pat downs and scans? Because even without the new stuff, you could have still been patted down and or wanded.

 

[CPT Tripss]

You might be right that it wouldn't go over well, but personally, I would like that. A naked picture being held bothers me, but a record that could be accessed if I felt abused, would protect me and the agent. It also would ensure the agents act in a professional manner, that there would not be "comments" and that the pat downs were not done in a "punitive manner."

I would put money on it (and I never gamble) that the aclu would be all over this and there would be an uproar. This would have to be held onto, unlike the scans with blurred faces. There would have to be cameras pointed at our private parts from the top, the side and the bottom to 'catch' it all. Our faces would be part of it so we could prove it was us. I think the percentages of those complaining would have to be a lot higher than the single digits.
I think you would do better to have someone take pictures as you get patted down, so you can decide who would see them, if needed. This would not be anonymous like the scans.

TSA does have survaillence at its checkpoints. They roll it out with some regularity when it disproves a disgruntaled passenger's story. It is sometimes used by passengers to support theeir story . . . such as the situation where a nursing mom was detained for a lengthy amount of time (not certain exactly . . . but over 30 minutes) because TSA would not allow her to transport her breast milk. But there are all too many reports of erased tapes, or the camera not covering the incident.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I should have been clearer. I was interested in how many complaints (since that's what the pp was talking about) the aclu had gotten in the past before Nov 1.

I am frequenting other sites where flyers discuss their experiences. That isn't giving me any percents though, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Ahh! Now I got it.

EPIC filed their suit against the scanners back in the summer.

 

[Trixieplus2]

The wand I don't think would bother me? I almost went on a flight once but had to change plans and cancel (family emergency). I ended up driving and meeting my party there.

 

[TheLists09]

I don't understand why you think, just because I am OK with a body scan or pat down, that I would be OK with a cavity search. Are you OK with the scans they have had up until now? If, so why would you not be ok with the new scans or pat downs? What does one being OK, have to do with the other?

For me, the way to be 100% safe when flying is to not fly, and I'm not going to go that route any more than I would a cavity search. Just because I'm fine with the new scan and pat down, doesn't mean I'd be OK with a cavity search. I'll cross that bridge and make a decision based on information I'll have at that time, if it ever came to that. I see a big difference between a fully clothed scan or pat down and a cavity search...don't you? You would refuse a clothed scan or pat down for the same reasons you would refuse a cavity search? You don't see that one is different from the other?

Nope, I'm not ok with a body scan, pat down or cavity search. No, I don't see a big difference. They're already used in the penal system by a government agency as a security precaution. The common theme in this thread is people would suffer through indiginities of security procedures to get to where they need to go safely.

Would you be ok with being stripped naked and checked for explosives? That's pretty close to the scanner, with its software blurred genital areas. I see the slippery slope, which was removal of shoes only a little while ago. How much do you think this scanner/pat down increases your chances of survival? It's already 1 in 25 million chance.

And I also don't believe that the TSA with its current procedures is going to save me from a terrorist attack.

 

[DMRick]

I don't consider the scan or pat down an indiginty..but I would a cavity search. You consider them in the same ballpark..and therein the difference between us lays.

No, I would not be OK with being stripped naked. I don't consider that close to the scanner. I do understand why that is used in the penal system..however if I were going into prison, I've lost the right to make the decision. If I was going to fly, and didn't want a cavity search (although I think it's a big stretch to say because we are scannign and patting down, that is next to happen), I could not fly. I can't say, excuse me warden, I've decided I don't want to to to jail if I have to have a cavity search. Apples - oranges.

I have no idea how many people would have tried to bring on explosives, but knowing they will be patted down stopped them..do you?

The common theme in this thread is people would suffer through indiginities of security procedures to get to where they need to go safely.

Would you be ok with being stripped naked and checked for explosives? That's pretty close to the scanner, with its software blurred genital areas. I see the slippery slope, which was removal of shoes only a little while ago. How much do you think this scanner/pat down increases your chances of survival? It's already 1 in 25 million chance.

And I also don't believe that the TSA with its current procedures is going to save me from a terrorist attack.

 

[Geoff_M]

Here's a good one... a couple of weeks prior, a woman tried to take some breast milk, pumped for her 7 month old back home, through a TSA checkpoint without having it x-rayed. The agents were uninformed on the TSA's current policy regarding breast milk (you're allowed to be given a "hand checked" if requested). Afterward, the woman called the TSA to file a complaint and she was also advised by the TSA to carry a printout of the policy the next time she traveled. She did, and when she flew out of the same airport a few weeks later, went through the same checkpoint, with some of the same agents, this happened.. They called the local PD on her as an "unruly passenger", held her in a "special inspection" box, and ignored her for an extended period until about 15 minutes before her plane's departure... and then told she had two choices: x-ray the milk, or dump it.

A blog post purportedly from the mother in the video with more explaination is here: Link

 

[skater]

Just curious. Did you have any plans on going on a flight before the new pat downs and scans? Because even without the new stuff, you could have still been patted down and or wanded.

I think, for some of us, there's a difference between the old pat down and the new "enhanced" pat down.

 

[eliza61]

I think, for some of us, there's a difference between the old pat down and the new "enhanced" pat down.

So you're not flying anymore?

 

[JLTraveling]

I have no idea how many people would have tried to bring on explosives, but knowing they will be patted down stopped them..do you?

I'm just hazarding a wild guess, but my money's on exactly zero. These guys are so far ahead of us it isn't even funny. As MANY people have already pointed out, if they really want to do something, they can just as easily do it AT the checkpoint instead of on the plane. Or they'll put stuff in cargo like that recent printer bomb. Or they'll just put the explosives in places that would require a cavity search. These terror cells are high tech, and they're not going to just sit around and go, "Well gee, I was going to bomb that plane, but since they might pat me down I'll just go get a mocha instead."

It's an ILLUSION of safety and nothing more. Heck, the TSA didn't even find Adam Savage (Mythbuster)'s 12-inch steel razor blades in a body scan OR a pat down. It's a lot of show for absolutely no increase in safety.

Here's a good one... a couple of weeks prior, a woman tried to take some breast milk, pumped for her 7 month old back home, through a TSA checkpoint without having it x-rayed. The agents were uninformed on the TSA's current policy regarding breast milk (you're allowed to be given a "hand checked" if requested). Afterward, the woman called the TSA to file a complaint and she was also advised by the TSA to carry a printout of the policy the next time she traveled. She did, and when she flew out of the same airport a few weeks later, went through the same checkpoint, with some of the same agents, this happened.. They called the local PD on her as an "unruly passenger", held her in a "special inspection" box, and ignored her for an extended period until about 15 minutes before her plane's departure... and then told she had two choices: x-ray the milk, or dump it.

A blog post purportedly from the mother in the video with more explaination is here: Link

I saw that. It's so sad, isn't it?

 

[Tricia1972]

I didn't have a chance to watch the entire video at work, but thought it worth mentioning that this video/story is from February 2010 (Blog date is later, but the first few seconds of the video indicate February 1, 2010 2:43PM)

In my own personal opinion, this video illustrates my feeling that the time to question the TSA's authority in an airport was long before now. The new changes mean nothing to me. The TSA is in our airports now and that's the way that it is. If I want to travel via air I need to deal with TSA, thorns and all. Chances are that I'll have a great agent who sees me on my way with no issue. There is a small chance that I may get an agent who is lacking.

As someone said earlier, every profession has great employees and real jerks/idiots. This video is a great example of that and shows that abuses of power happened a long time before any enhanced anything.

Here's a good one... a couple of weeks prior, a woman tried to take some breast milk, pumped for her 7 month old back home, through a TSA checkpoint without having it x-rayed. The agents were uninformed on the TSA's current policy regarding breast milk (you're allowed to be given a "hand checked" if requested). Afterward, the woman called the TSA to file a complaint and she was also advised by the TSA to carry a printout of the policy the next time she traveled. She did, and when she flew out of the same airport a few weeks later, went through the same checkpoint, with some of the same agents, this happened.. They called the local PD on her as an "unruly passenger", held her in a "special inspection" box, and ignored her for an extended period until about 15 minutes before her plane's departure... and then told she had two choices: x-ray the milk, or dump it.

A blog post purportedly from the mother in the video with more explaination is here: Link

 

[ccgirl]

I didn't have a chance to watch the entire video at work, but thought it worth mentioning that this video/story is from February 2010 (Blog date is later, but the first few seconds of the video indicate February 1, 2010 2:43PM)

In my own personal opinion, this video illustrates my feeling that the time to question the TSA's authority in an airport was long before now. The new changes mean nothing to me. The TSA is in our airports now and that's the way that it is. If I want to travel via air I need to deal with TSA, thorns and all. Chances are that I'll have a great agent who sees me on my way with no issue. There is a small chance that I may get an agent who is lacking.

As someone said earlier, every profession has great employees and real jerks/idiots. This video is a great example of that and shows that abuses of power happened a long time before any enhanced anything.

Thank you for posting that as I did not have time to watch the video. If you are challenging the current practices of the TSA, the links should really be current.

 

[Geoff_M]

If you are challenging the current practices of the TSA, the links should really be current.

The TSA policies regarding the handling "medical liquids" (and breast milk is classified as such), including the option to not have them x-rayed, in carry-ons is unchanged from this February. They are current.

 

[skater]

I didn't have a chance to watch the entire video at work, but thought it worth mentioning that this video/story is from February 2010 (Blog date is later, but the first few seconds of the video indicate February 1, 2010 2:43PM)

In my own personal opinion, this video illustrates my feeling that the time to question the TSA's authority in an airport was long before now. The new changes mean nothing to me. The TSA is in our airports now and that's the way that it is. If I want to travel via air I need to deal with TSA, thorns and all. Chances are that I'll have a great agent who sees me on my way with no issue. There is a small chance that I may get an agent who is lacking.

As someone said earlier, every profession has great employees and real jerks/idiots. This video is a great example of that and shows that abuses of power happened a long time before any enhanced anything.

And yet, we still must moniter the tsa carefully because they now have more authority (meaning they can do a random pat down that is more invasive than the old "unenhanced" ones).

And yes, there are good and bad tsa employees. The difference is that because they have power over us, its more critical to moniter and get rid of the bad ones than in certain other professions. Same goes for anybody in a position of authority.

I do appreciate you pointing out the date of the video - we should always be careful with sources/dates/etc.

 

[ccgirl]

The TSA policies regarding the handling "medical liquids" (and breast milk is classified as such), including the option to not have them x-rayed, in carry-ons is unchanged from this February. They are current.

I understand that. But, I thought this thread was opened to discuss the "new" methods of screening.

 

[Nancy F]

Can't we request a private room for it??? I know that it is done by the same gender you are. But I wouldn't mind as much if they took me to a private area. I'd HATE to have it done in line with everybody watching.
Nancy

 

[skater]

So you're not flying anymore?

I have a flight in Feb. And after that, who knows? I will avoid it whenever I can. I will definately take less flights than I used to - I love to fly, but at this point, I don't feel that its worth the stress.