TSA mess and the police

[Anjelica]

The new scanners were ordered long before the underwear bomber burned himself. They have been in the pipeline for quite a while.

Correct - but they were rolled out alot faster than previously scheduled because of that incident.

 

[Anjelica]

Start with this.... http://gizmodo.com/5698536/fliers-claim-tsa-have-deactivated-body-scanners

I found a lot of what I read from link-link-linking... I don't remember where I was. Ugh.

I didn't link to anything else but what it indicates per the article was that:

"A report from the Associated Press, however, includes an image showing a woman in a body scanner at Seattle's SeaTac Airport dated today:

An airline passenger raises her arms as instructed in TSA's new full body scanner at SeaTac Airport Wednesday morning, November 24, 2010. The crowd level was normal, and there were no delays. Peter Haley / Staff photographer

The presumption by some is that the TSA has deactivated the AIT machines in an effort to both increase throughput of travelers through the scanning process and to diffuse protest by the grassroots National Out-Out Day movement.

But as the AP photo shows, it's not always possible for a single passenger to determine if an airport is using the machines at every terminal or not."

 

[CathrynRose]

I didn't link to anything else but what it indicates per the article was that:

The tweets are a feed. Those.

 

[Anjelica]

The tweets are a feed. Those.

Because one person doesn't go through them doesn't mean they aren't activated (per link "But as the AP photo shows, it's not always possible for a single passenger to determine if an airport is using the machines at every terminal or not"). There appears to be 400 scanners in 70 airports - obviously not enough for even the majority to go through a scanner. Unless the TSA is flat out lying I don't believe they aren't using the scanners today.

 

[Jennasis]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101124/ap_on_bi_ge/us_airport_security

Seems like scans were working and pat downs still happening. What didn't happen is the big opt-out. COme on folks...you want to effect change, you have to do more than just talk the talk.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...Seems like scans were working and pat downs still happening. What didn't happen is the big opt-out. COme on folks...you want to effect change, you have to do more than just talk the talk.

This is only a problem on the internet. Travelers don't care. When weighing this process vs driving or staying home, they choose to fly, and they will continue to do so.

 

[C.Ann]

Back again.. Had to step away for awhile and get a little more packing done for my move back to DD's for the winter..

As I said several pages ago, I'm kind of glad that the opt-out thing (for today) didn't materialize in a way that would interfere with so many people who don't have issues with these new guidelines.. "Peaceful protest" can sometimes be a good thing, but I was uncomfortable with that happening today.. I don't think it would have been fair to those who were just trying to get home to be with their families for the holidays to be tied up for hours and hours in the airports; missing their connecting flights; etc..

At this point there is so much publicity out there - so many complaints - it may not even be necessary to take it to that level.. It's getting the attention of the "powers that be" (not referring to the TSA's who are only doing their jobs) - which is a good thing..

If people keep the pressure on; continue to voice their complaints; speak with their wallets; and keep it out there in the public eye (via the media; internet; and whatever other means are available), there's still hope that certain aspects may change.. They have already changed their stand on pat downs for children under 12, which is a "positive" - so who knows what may happen next?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...If people keep the pressure on; continue to voice their complaints; speak with their wallets; and keep it out there in the public eye (via the media; internet; and whatever other means are available), there's still hope that certain aspects may change.. They have already changed their stand on pat downs for children under 12, which is a "positive" - so who knows what may happen next?

I agree - people who are not happy should protest in positive ways to effect change in this sort of policy. They should also protest with their wallets. It is clear that they are paying attention.

 

[eliza61]

This is only a problem on the internet. Travelers don't care. When weighing this process vs driving or staying home, they choose to fly, and they will continue to do so.

That's pretty much the bottom line DBF 2 million people flew so far today and 99% of them consider speed and cost more than any thing else.

Here in Philly we only have 1 scanner in terminal f and they have reported absolutely no problems, with most interviewed people saying they simply wanted to get on their plan with no problems.

 

[OceanAnnie]

If people keep the pressure on; continue to voice their complaints; speak with their wallets; and keep it out there in the public eye (via the media; internet; and whatever other means are available), there's still hope that certain aspects may change.. They have already changed their stand on pat downs for children under 12, which is a "positive" - so who knows what may happen next?

I agree.
----------------

Poll finds 61% oppose new airport security measures
November 23, 2010 | 11:41 am

On the eve of one of the nation's busiest travel days, a poll has found that 61% of likely voters oppose the newly enhanced security measures at the country's airports.

The poll by Zogby International of 2,032 likely voters also found that 48% said they would probably seek alternatives to flying because of the new measures.

Airport security has become a topic of heated debate, particularly since Nov. 1, when the Transportation Security Administration implemented a more aggressive pat-down search technique at security checkpoints.

Since an attempted bombing on Dec. 25, 2009, the TSA has expanded the use of full-body image scanners that use low levels of radiation to create what looks like a nude image of the screened passenger to detect hidden weapons or contraband.

A TSA official said the agency was adding about 60 scanners a month at the nation's airports, with a goal of installing 500 machines by the end of 2010.

TSA officials said the scanners and the new pat-down technique were used on only a small percentage of passengers. Most travelers will be screened using traditional metal detectors and X-ray machines.

But privacy rights groups, including the ACLU, have objected to the new measures, comparing the pat-down procedures to a "groping."

The Zogby poll, taken online Nov. 19-22, seems to indicate a change in public opinion over the last few weeks. A CBS News telephone poll taken Nov. 7-10 found that 81% of Americans questioned said they approved of the use of the full-body scanners at airports. The CBS poll did not ask about the new pat-down search techniques.

Of those polled by Zogby, 52% said the enhanced security measures would not prevent terrorist activities and nearly half (48%) said the measures violated passenger privacy rights. Another 32% said they considered the full-body scans and pat-down search procedures to be sexual harassment.

"It's clear the majority of Americans are not happy with TSA and the enhanced security measures recently enacted," pollster John Zogby said in a statement.

-- Hugo Martin

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mon...-61-oppose-new-airport-security-measures.html
---------------------------

The new procedure just rolled out less than a month ago. I think it's too soon to tell how this will impact air travel in the long run.

I'm thinking right now the TSA has people between a rock and a hard place. They've paid their money to fly. In many cases, I'd bet the security measures changed after the tickets were bought. IIRC there aren't going to be refunds unless certain conditions apply, and people's plans are set. It's hard to walk away from money spent, for some -- families it could be a lot. So there are a lot of variables that come into play with the immediate air travelers.

It will be interesting to see what kind of impact there will be months out.

 

[C.Ann]

I agree.
----------------

Poll finds 61% oppose new airport security measures
November 23, 2010 | 11:41 am

On the eve of one of the nation's busiest travel days, a poll has found that 61% of likely voters oppose the newly enhanced security measures at the country's airports.

The poll by Zogby International of 2,032 likely voters also found that 48% said they would probably seek alternatives to flying because of the new measures.

Airport security has become a topic of heated debate, particularly since Nov. 1, when the Transportation Security Administration implemented a more aggressive pat-down search technique at security checkpoints.

Since an attempted bombing on Dec. 25, 2009, the TSA has expanded the use of full-body image scanners that use low levels of radiation to create what looks like a nude image of the screened passenger to detect hidden weapons or contraband.

A TSA official said the agency was adding about 60 scanners a month at the nation's airports, with a goal of installing 500 machines by the end of 2010.

TSA officials said the scanners and the new pat-down technique were used on only a small percentage of passengers. Most travelers will be screened using traditional metal detectors and X-ray machines.

But privacy rights groups, including the ACLU, have objected to the new measures, comparing the pat-down procedures to a "groping."

The Zogby poll, taken online Nov. 19-22, seems to indicate a change in public opinion over the last few weeks. A CBS News telephone poll taken Nov. 7-10 found that 81% of Americans questioned said they approved of the use of the full-body scanners at airports. The CBS poll did not ask about the new pat-down search techniques.

Of those polled by Zogby, 52% said the enhanced security measures would not prevent terrorist activities and nearly half (48%) said the measures violated passenger privacy rights. Another 32% said they considered the full-body scans and pat-down search procedures to be sexual harassment.

"It's clear the majority of Americans are not happy with TSA and the enhanced security measures recently enacted," pollster John Zogby said in a statement.

-- Hugo Martin

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mon...-61-oppose-new-airport-security-measures.html
---------------------------

The new procedure just rolled out less than a month ago. I think it's too soon to tell how this will impact air travel in the long run.

I'm thinking right now the TSA has people between a rock and a hard place. They've paid their money to fly. In many cases, I'd bet the security measures changed after the tickets were bought. IIRC there aren't going to be refunds unless certain conditions apply, and people's plans are set. It's hard to walk away from money spent, for some -- families it could be a lot. So there are a lot of variables that come into play with the immediate air travelers.

It will be interesting to see what kind of impact there will be months out.

Great read! Thanks for sharing that.. Very, very interesting.. If nothing else, it proves that people are listening - as well as speaking their minds.. If the public keeps the pressure on, a few months from now we may see some changes after all..

 

[eliza61]

Great read! Thanks for sharing that.. Very, very interesting.. If nothing else, it proves that people are listening - as well as speaking their minds.. If the public keeps the pressure on, a few months from now we may see some changes after all..

You have more faith than me.
1) this was a poll of 2000 out of the 3 million that flew today, that's less than 1%. News medias (totally agree are biased) did exit polls and even those that said they weren't happy with the new security, every last one said that convenience and price were more important. and some bluntly said, they were more concerned with getting to their thanksgiving destinations.

2) And even if people had their plane tickets many people simply did not "opt out" like the opponents were calling for, chosing instead to just "get through" security the fastest way possible.

3) I'm a business traveller ( generally 2-3 flights a month), all the business travelers I know, have no option but to fly. It's very easy to say "show your displeasure" with your wallet but the reality of at least the people I talk to who fly regularly. not flying isn't even a consideration.

Now so far in Philly, the scanners only impact a small portion of the airports business (1 terminal) but for the casual flyer, who goes on vacation maybe once or twice a year. from reports we've been hearing, speed and price stil seem to be the number one factor in decisions about mode of transportation.

Southwest fares to MCO are still at $79 bucks. that's enough for people to endure the scanners once a year. sure it's easy to say you don't like them when you've got no place to go but when people are faced with a trip to California from NJ, lol those scanners can and will be tolerated.

Well see.

 

[skater]

Rosemary Fitzpatrick, CNN employee, "I felt helpless, I felt violated, and I felt humiliated." And "It appears once you enter the security area, passengers forfeit their rights." And, "As an experienced traveler for work who was in tears for most of the search process, I have never experienced a more traumatic and invasive travel event."

This is from an article dated Oct. 28 and in full disclosure, she went through the pat-down after her under-wire bra set off the metal detector. Still sounds like the innocent being treated like a criminal.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...This is from an article dated Oct. 28 and in full disclosure, she went through the pat-down after her under-wire bra set off the metal detector. Still sounds like the innocent being treated like a criminal.

Why do you give stories like this more credence than the stories of all the people who have been through this and didn't care or feel violated in any way?

 

[skater]

Why do you give stories like this more credence than the stories of all the people who have been through this and didn't care or feel violated in any way?

Why would you think that ?

 

[eliza61]

Why do you give stories like this more credence than the stories of all the people who have been through this and didn't care or feel violated in any way?

Because it's easier to feed outrage when you've got an old fashion villian. How would the story play out if it read "2 million travellers flew on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving and not one child was molested".
not so interesting is it.

Sort of like the evening news "If it bleeds it leads". Murder and mayhem will always travel faster because who wants to hear that some one helped the homeless get a thanksgiving meal tonight.

I mean the biggest part of todays protest was that some women showed up at the airport in California in her bikini. outside of that millions of others had a pretty darn boring flight home.

I mean would anyone really post that 10,000 TSA agents worked their shift tonight and didn't get their jollies from looking at all those naked pictures or managed to do their jobs and didn't assault anyone, simply did their job and went home to their families. I mean we all know that most are day release inmates anyway.

Come on. God forbid that actuall ahppen

 

[skater]

Because it's easier to feed outrage when you've got an old fashion villian. How would the story play out if it read "2 million travellers flew on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving and not one child was molested".
not so interesting is it.

Sort of like the evening news "If it bleeds it leads". Murder and mayhem will always travel faster because who wants to hear that some one helped the homeless get a thanksgiving meal tonight.

I mean the biggest part of todays protest was that some women showed up at the airport in California in her bikini. outside of that millions of others had a pretty darn boring flight home.

Wow. Tough crowd here . You know zero about me and whether or not I'm trying to feed outrage. I just like to share the truth - even when it might not support what I want it to.

Personally, I hope its true that nobody else had a bad experience with these new procedures today. I hope that tsa agents are on their best behavior - maybe all the complaints and coverage made them very cautious (I wouldn't want to be a tsa agent right now ).

Still, the complaints are real and some of the stated experiences should NEVER happen. And I for one, want to know the whole truth. I wanted to know the truth about today - its OK that it was boring. And I want to know the truth about the "horror" stories - the ones that are true and the ones that are exaggerated.

I also like forums because I like to see everybody's opinion and I try not to belittle people. Its just not necessary.

 

[C.Ann]

You have more faith than me..

Yes - I have a very strong faith - in many things.. It has become an increasingly important (actually crucial) part of my daily life - something that I thank God for every single night.. Without faith, there's nothing..

I wish you the best in your business and pleasure travels - no matter how this issue turns out..

 

[skater]

You have more faith than me.
1) this was a poll of 2000 out of the 3 million that flew today, that's less than 1%. News medias (totally agree are biased) did exit polls and even those that said they weren't happy with the new security, every last one said that convenience and price were more important. and some bluntly said, they were more concerned with getting to their thanksgiving destinations.

2) And even if people had their plane tickets many people simply did not "opt out" like the opponents were calling for, chosing instead to just "get through" security the fastest way possible.

3) I'm a business traveller ( generally 2-3 flights a month), all the business travelers I know, have no option but to fly. It's very easy to say "show your displeasure" with your wallet but the reality of at least the people I talk to who fly regularly. not flying isn't even a consideration.

Now so far in Philly, the scanners only impact a small portion of the airports business (1 terminal) but for the casual flyer, who goes on vacation maybe once or twice a year. from reports we've been hearing, speed and price stil seem to be the number one factor in decisions about mode of transportation.

Southwest fares to MCO are still at $79 bucks. that's enough for people to endure the scanners once a year. sure it's easy to say you don't like them when you've got no place to go but when people are faced with a trip to California from NJ, lol those scanners can and will be tolerated.

Well see.

Just curious (respectfully of course - I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around here lately ), if scanners end up being used for every traveler instead of randomly, would you have a problem going through one 2-3 times a month? Why or why not?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Just curious (respectfully of course - I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around here lately ), if scanners end up being used for every traveler instead of randomly, would you have a problem going through one 2-3 times a month? Why or why not?

I'll answer, too. I fly at least 30 times per year - sometimes closer to 50. I will have no problem with the scanners. After all, 100 scans will expose me to less radiation than a single flight across the country.