TSA mess and the police

[LuvOrlando]

NY Post has a poll where people are writing about their own personal experiences, they are very interesting

I also just saw the Today Show clip and John Pistole is unrelenting. I guess they are standing their ground which means I guess I'm not going anywhere. We saw or in-laws last night and DH & I broke the news to them that the family trip to Aruba is canceled unless something changes. We're sad, they are sad, the kids are sad but DH & I are united. Good thing we went to WDW and Aruba this year and didn't end up buying timeshare, at least we got to see the Caribbean and our $ isn't sunk into a loss. I bet all the local vacation spots are cheering over this I can imagine the cruise industry is about to get a huge windfall too.

I'll still be watching the mess closely. My poor husband must fly for work so now a whole new set of worries is opened up. Things I wasn't even thinking about before are popping into my head now... rats. Does anyone know if we can just buy our own radiation meters or if a Dr's note or something more is needed? I'm thinking the tags that are used by people in Dentists offices and X-ray labs would be good.

 

[SaraJayne]

I am much more afraid of losing personal liberties and the government intrusion in our lives then I am of the terrorists. The best way for a government to control society is through fear. They feed off of your fears and profit from it. One to make money and two pass more laws to take away more freedoms. This has gone on throughout history. It doesnt happen over night. It's a slow process. Then one day wake up and your living in a whole New World. Will we recognize the US in 10 years? Not if we continue down the path were on.

 

[linzbear]

Hey guys, CALL YOUR SENATORS

They are having a hearing on Wednesday. They can actually DO something about this.

Debate is great for hashing out ideas, but you need to contact the people that can help, otherwise all you're talking about with other people is for naught.

Here's the info: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15135060-post1.html

Here are the list of Senators involved:
D-AK Mark Begich (202) 224-3004
D-AR Mark Pryor (202) 224-2353
D-CA Barbara Boxer (202) 224-3553
D-FL Bill Nelson 202-224-5274
D-HI Daniel K. Inouye (202) 224.3934
D-MA John F. Kerry (202) 224-2742
D-MN Amy Klobuchar 202-224-3244
D-MO Claire McCaskill 202-224-6154
D-ND Byron L. Dorgon (202) 224-2551
D-NJ Frank R. Lautenberg (973) 639-8700, (888) 398-1642
D-NM Tom Udall (202) 224-6621
D-VA Mark Warner 202-224-2023
D-WA Maria Cantwell 202-224-3441
D-WV Jay Rockefeller (202) 224-6472

R-FL George S. LeMieux (202) 224-3041
R-GA Johnny Isakson (202) 224-3643
R-KS Sam Brownback (202) 224-6521
R-LA David Vitter (202) 224-4623
R-ME Olympia J. Snowe (202) 224-5344, (800) 432-1599
R-MS Roger F. Wicker 202-224-6253
R-NE Mike Johanns (202) 224-4224
R-NV John Ensign (202) 224-6244
R-SC Jim DeMint (202) 224-6121
R-SD John Thune (202) 224-2321, 1-866-850-3855
R-TX Kay Bailey Hutchison 202-224-5922

If your senator is not on this list, call the committee chairs:
The committee chair is Sen Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) phone (202) 224-6472. The ranking member is Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison 202-224-5922.
The subcommittee chair is Sen Byron L. Dorgon (D-ND) phone (202) 224-2551. The ranking member is Sen Jim DeMint (R-SC) phone (202) 224-6121.

This is the blurb that I said:
Hi, I'm calling concerning the TSA Oversight Hearing on Wednesday Nov 17th. I would like to express my discontent with the current way that TSA has been conducting searches in that children and sexual assault victims are required to be subjected to either an imaging process where an officer can see their genitals on screen, or a front of the hands pat down on their genitals for what I believe to be an invasive and inadequate security screening.


It was the most painless phone call I've ever made. I had to reschedule a Dentist's appointment this morning, and that was less stressful.

Please call, spread the word, quote this.

The only way there will ever be change is if we ask for it.

 

[LuvOrlando]

You are right linzbear, just because the people in charge now don't want to bend doesn't mean others with more power can't force them to bend or that they can't be replaced with people who will. Only time will tell so I guess I shouldn't make a final decision just yet. Fingers crossed.

I wonder if the hearing will be made public on C-Span or on the news? If so I'd like to know the details if anyone knows them. if i'm not around the DVR will be. BTW, both of my kids listened to a rather interesting debate last night over this at Sunday dinner. My DS12 even pulled out his paper on "The Bill of Rights" from his backpack as my DD11 stood there doe eyed over the idea anyone would ever get a chance to touch her or see under her clothes. My FIL was all ok with the situation until DD started to look scared, then the game changed. I would love for my children to get a lesson on how Democracy in action can work. I don't know about anyone else but i can't remember another time in my lifetime where things moved so fast. Looks like that little ember of hope is warming up a bit

 

[C.Ann]

Hey guys, CALL YOUR SENATORS

They are having a hearing on Wednesday. They can actually DO something about this.

Here's the info: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15135060-post1.html

Here are the list of Senators involved:
D-AK Mark Begich (202) 224-3004
D-AR Mark Pryor (202) 224-2353
D-CA Barbara Boxer (202) 224-3553
D-FL Bill Nelson 202-224-5274
D-HI Daniel K. Inouye (202) 224.3934
D-MA John F. Kerry (202) 224-2742
D-MN Amy Klobuchar 202-224-3244
D-MO Claire McCaskill 202-224-6154
D-ND Byron L. Dorgon (202) 224-2551
D-NJ Frank R. Lautenberg (973) 639-8700, (888) 398-1642
D-NM Tom Udall (202) 224-6621
D-VA Mark Warner 202-224-2023
D-WA Maria Cantwell 202-224-3441
D-WV Jay Rockefeller (202) 224-6472

R-FL George S. LeMieux (202) 224-3041
R-GA Johnny Isakson (202) 224-3643
R-KS Sam Brownback (202) 224-6521
R-LA David Vitter (202) 224-4623
R-ME Olympia J. Snowe (202) 224-5344, (800) 432-1599
R-MS Roger F. Wicker 202-224-6253
R-NE Mike Johanns (202) 224-4224
R-NV John Ensign (202) 224-6244
R-SC Jim DeMint (202) 224-6121
R-SD John Thune (202) 224-2321, 1-866-850-3855
R-TX Kay Bailey Hutchison 202-224-5922

If your senator is not on this list, call the committee chairs:
The committee chair is Sen Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) phone (202) 224-6472. The ranking member is Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison 202-224-5922.
The subcommittee chair is Sen Byron L. Dorgon (D-ND) phone (202) 224-2551. The ranking member is Sen Jim DeMint (R-SC) phone (202) 224-6121.

This is the blurb that I said:
Hi, I'm calling concerning the TSA Oversight Hearing on Wednesday Nov 17th. I would like to express my discontent with the current way that TSA has been conducting searches in that children and sexual assault victims are required to be subjected to either an imaging process where an officer can see their genitals on screen, or a front of the hands pat down on their genitals for what I believe to be an invasive and inadequate security screening.


Please call, spread the word, quote this.

The only way there will ever be change is if we ask for it.

--------------------------------------

Money talks pretty well too.. The old "vote with your wallet" routine..

 

[EMom]

While the youngest suicide bombers are typically at least 10 years old, if authorities gave 4 year olds a blanket pass through security, then those children would become perfect vessels for transporting contraband through security. By applying security in a consistent manner, without regard to the age of the passenger, security is protecting children from being abused in that manner by terrorists.

Yes, SOME parents would indeed use children as suicide bombers. Some parents. But if even one speck of common sense was used and we weren't so afraid of breaking some PC rules, anyone could figure out that DH, DD and I are as safe as it gets. In no way, by any stretch of the most vivid TSA imagination, are were within a country mile of being anywhere near a threat.....especially if it involves our DD. We have taken leave of our senses when a family like us is subject to these nekkid scanners and groping searches. And the sense we have most taken leave of is COMMON SENSE. I don't give a rat's hiney what some freak will potentially do with their 4 y.o. in such a hypothetical one in a million chance. There are better ways to spot said freak without molesting scads of little kids.

We're not any safer. We're just sheep being herded along blindly. Well.....That's what we were. Now we are NAKED sheep being herded along blindly, who stand a decent chance of being felt up and having our privates fondled, topped off with a refreshing cavity search. Yep, I know that makes me feel safe.

 

[JLTraveling]

Uh oh! "Around" as in if someone had severe claustrophobia it would trigger a reaction?

Yes, without a doubt. I've written extensively on the body scanners and their possible triggers for various phobias on my About.com website. Anyone is welcome to PM me for the link; I'll avoid posting it here since certain posters may be inclined to accuse me of "advertising." But yes, claustrophobia is just one of many phobias likely to be triggered by these devices.

 

[jodifla]

NY Post has a poll where people are writing about their own personal experiences, they are very interesting

I also just saw the Today Show clip and John Pistole is unrelenting. I guess they are standing their ground which means I guess I'm not going anywhere. We saw or in-laws last night and DH & I broke the news to them that the family trip to Aruba is canceled unless something changes. We're sad, they are sad, the kids are sad but DH & I are united. Good thing we went to WDW and Aruba this year and didn't end up buying timeshare, at least we got to see the Caribbean and our $ isn't sunk into a loss. I bet all the local vacation spots are cheering over this I can imagine the cruise industry is about to get a huge windfall too.

I'll still be watching the mess closely. My poor husband must fly for work so now a whole new set of worries is opened up. Things I wasn't even thinking about before are popping into my head now... rats. Does anyone know if we can just buy our own radiation meters or if a Dr's note or something more is needed? I'm thinking the tags that are used by people in Dentists offices and X-ray labs would be good.

One thing to note: Very, very few people are being sent through the scanners at this point. Most people just go through metal detectors and are sent on their merry way.

I went through because I set the scanner off for some strange reason. And in Detroit, they have the millimeter machines, not the radiation machines. I to this point haven't heard any health concerns over the millimeter wave machines. So you have to weigh canceling everything against the off chance you'd actually get selected for either more invasive procedure.

 

[SaraJayne]

We're not any safer. We're just sheep being herded along blindly. Well.....That's what we were. Now we are NAKED sheep being herded along blindly, who stand a decent chance of being felt up and having our privates fondled, topped off with a refreshing cavity search. Yep, I know that makes me feel safe.

 

[DMRick]

My son is always pulled aside too. He's dark complected with a beard and dark hair. He'll be flying overseas tomorrow to come here with his family. His wife had to get a special visa this time, because she is not a citizen,something that she used to fill out on the plane, but now they charge her $14 and it must be filled out more than 72 ahead.

I've had the patting down, brought into the clear plastic room, stuff blown at me, and had a medical device tested in a machine. So far, none of it bothered me. I realize that none of it may keep me safer, per se, but if it convinces someone that it may, and our plane is safer because of it, I don't care abut what they feel they must do. That said, no way would a young child of mine go into a room without me.

I am flying on Thursday and will report back on my experience. For some reason, I am often selected for "special screening." I've been patted down, body imaged, selected to go in that cube where they blow at you with air, and had my carry on luggage taken apart and each electronic item swabbed and checked on some type of machine, etc.

I have to say though, that I had the type of pat down that seems to be discussed here many years ago (2006), at Charles DeGaulle airport. The agent was extremely thorough-in addition to running her hands deeply over all the usual pat down areas, she ran her hands--using her palms, not backs-- over my butt and up my legs right up to--but not over--my crotch, around/in my waistband, over my breasts, and even slid her fingers up under my underwire (using my shirt as a barrier). After the "pat down" she wanded me for good measure.

In all seriousness, it really was not overly invasive--at least not to me. She was fast, polite, and professional. Hopefully that will be the case on Thursday also. I can almost guarantee I'll be finding out!!

 

[LuvOrlando]

One thing to note: Very, very few people are being sent through the scanners at this point. Most people just go through metal detectors and are sent on their merry way.

I went through because I set the scanner off for some strange reason. And in Detroit, they have the millimeter machines, not the radiation machines. I to this point haven't heard any health concerns over the millimeter wave machines. So you have to weigh canceling everything against the off chance you'd actually get selected for either more invasive procedure.

The fact very few are going through right now has more to do with the fact that there aren't that many machines out yet than the idea the TSA is being selective. According to the TSA's website it looks like they have the expectation that everyone will be going though as soon as all the machines are rolled out and they make it a point to say age is not relevant. Here is what they say on the page about children,
"We have to screen everyone, regardless of age (even babies), before they can go through the security checkpoint.

We will not ask you to do anything that will separate you from your child or children.

We specially train our Security Officers and they understand your concern for your children. They will approach your children gently and treat them with respect. If your child becomes uncomfortable or upset, security officers will consult you about the best way to relieve your child's concern.

NEVER leave babies in an infant carrier while it goes through the X-ray machine."

About the kinds of machines used, I personally think the millimeter machines are better then the x-ray because they are not carcinogenic but I'm still not on board with the whole 'see me naked' thing either way especially where my children are concerned. Still, they haven't said they will withdraw all the X-Ray ones or let people choose one kind over another so as it stands, if you go to an airport there is no reason to think you won't get the x-ray kind unless a change is made and they publicize which ones are where so the public can choose an airport based on the scanner used.

 

[No.17CherryTreeLane]

[/B]We're not any safer. We're just sheep being herded along blindly. Well.....That's what we were. Now we are NAKED sheep being herded along blindly, who stand a decent chance of being felt up and having our privates fondled, topped off with a refreshing cavity search. Yep, I know that makes me feel safe.

Perfectly said.

 

[mom2aandj]

just saw a news article that quotes Pistole as saying children under 12 will not receive the new pat downs??:

Some travelers are also livid about how children are being screened. During a trip last Sunday by a father and son through Orlando airport in Florida, the 8-year-old boy was selected for extra screening by TSA after going through the metal detector.
TSA has altered its policies with children, Pistole said. "We've heard the concerns that have been expressed, and agree that children 12 and under should not receive that type of pat down."

 

[LuvOrlando]

just saw a news article that quotes Pistole as saying children under 12 will not receive the new pat downs??:

Some travelers are also livid about how children are being screened. During a trip last Sunday by a father and son through Orlando airport in Florida, the 8-year-old boy was selected for extra screening by TSA after going through the metal detector.
TSA has altered its policies with children, Pistole said. "We've heard the concerns that have been expressed, and agree that children 12 and under should not receive that type of pat down."

If you look at the website and listen to the guys interview you'll notice a loophole, I know I did immediately. The loophole is that children can bypass the touching part as long as they surrender to the scanners. I don't know what would happen if parents object to both, maybe someone should ask when he is compelled to answer.

 

[CathrynRose]

Luv O ~ thank you for posting about the San Diego man.

I stopped Googling about this, as it started getting me way too riled up, as well as wasting too much of my time.

HOORAY to this man for exposing how it goes down as well as putting to rest the argument of it being 2nd hand reports. You don't get much more 1st hand than hearing it for yourself.

 

[CathrynRose]

If you look at the website and listen to the guys interview you'll notice a loophole, I know I did immediately. The loophole is that children can bypass the touching part as long as they surrender to the scanners. I don't know what would happen if parents object to both, maybe someone should ask when he is compelled to answer.

Or, or, or, or..... OR if the parent agrees to the naked scanner, and the child moves, which would initiate a pat-down, correct? That's been the "rule" with everything I've read.

And why 12? 13 is still legally a child - as is 14, 15, 16 and 17!!!

 

[LuvOrlando]

Anyone see the Pirate Party protest in Germany on You Tube? I don't know anything about the group but I think they are gutsy. Me like

I wish I could read German because I have no idea what's going on without the sub titles

 

[anna_chronistic]

Although I have read all 37 pages (!) of comments, I often clicked to other locations/links, googled for more info, etc., so I'm not sure this was posted. This is a letter regarding the alleged safety of the back-scatter X-rays.

http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf

The previous post about a "loophole" reminded me of it because the letter mentions that the radiation levels, although reported to be safe, are actually using an inaccurate measure. The actual radiation levels are significantly higher than reported and thus less safe.

And as I'm sure -- many pages ago -- someone has mentioned, the machines do have the capability to capture and save images, and there has already been at least one celebrity (not in the States, but elsewhere) whose "naked photo" was printed and distributed even before he left the airport. He found out when the airline employees approached him to sign his own X-ray photo.

In the name of safety? No. As so many others have said, this is security theater.

 

[CandyMandy]

Like I said, I was patted down last Thursday in Philly and last Friday coming home from Chicago. The female TSA agent did not grope me, squeeze my breast, feel me up or any other thing.

You were lucky.

 

[LuvOrlando]

What do you think the chances would be that Disney would release an "Emperor's New Groove" T-shirt that says "No Touchy, no touchy, No touch!"

I don't remember when it was said in the movie but I distinctly remember it because I remember teaching it to my kids to say to each other when they would invade each others space as an alternative to fighting.

I want one for Christmas... I wonder if it can be done with Photoshop and some transfer paper?