TSA mess and the police

[C.Ann]

I fly out for a work trip in a couple of days.... wish me luck

Really hoping that this is not as bad as it sounds

Good luck! We want a full report when you get back.. LOL...

 

[EMom]

From my experience with TSA, I've found that it matters where you are. When an ATL TSA agent decided that my daughter who was four had to have a strip search, I understood the need for random searches and was willing to comply UNTIL the agent said that I could not go back there with her because I was male. No one in an airport is taking my daughter away from me. Several supervisor and agents decided that I could after all, go back with her for the search.

WTH?!?!?!?! Good lord, just how suspicious and/or menacing can a 4 y.o. appear to be that would warrant a STRIP SEARCH? Did they suspect her of stashing Weebles up her privates?

Seriously, what was their reason? I know they don't have to give a reason, but without a reason in the case of a 4 y.o., that's just pervy and sick. What a way to terrify a little girl all in the name of "national security."

Please tell me you are joking. Strip searching a 4 y.o.? Is this what we are reduced to?

 

[C.Ann]

WTH?!?!?!?! Good lord, just how suspicious and/or menacing can a 4 y.o. appear to be that would warrant a STRIP SEARCH? Did they suspect her of stashing Weebles up her privates?

Seriously, what was their reason? I know they don't have to give a reason, but without a reason in the case of a 4 y.o., that's just pervy and sick. What a way to terrify a little girl all in the name of "national security."

Please tell me you are joking. Strip searching a 4 y.o.? Is this what we are reduced to?

I purposely didn't respond to the first post about this because I just know that someone is going to pop in here and say it's an "exaggeration"; this is some random poster who "may" or "may not" be telling the truth; etc..

 

[kaytieeldr]

From my experience with TSA, I've found that it matters where you are. When an ATL TSA agent decided that my daughter who was four had to have a strip search, I understood the need for random searches and was willing to comply UNTIL the agent said that I could not go back there with her because I was male. No one in an airport is taking my daughter away from me. Several supervisor and agents decided that I could after all, go back with her for the search.

I see several people are outraged at the fact the poster's daughter was strip searched, and understandably. It'd be interesting to know if the TSO gave him any explanation why this was necessary.

Surprised, though, that since he's resignedly understanding about that, that nobody else has picked up on his irritation over the stupidity of him originally not being allowed to be in the room where his four year old daughter was to be subjected to a more intensive search... because he's not the same gender as she!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course not - he's her FATHER.

It's one thing to expect when a passsenger of any age has to be touched by a TSO that the two people be the same sex; but to not allow a PARENT to be present, despite the TSA's policy that one CAN have another person present, simply because that person is your opposite-sex parent????????????? THAT'S outrageous.

 

[liamsaunt]

I am flying on Thursday and will report back on my experience. For some reason, I am often selected for "special screening." I've been patted down, body imaged, selected to go in that cube where they blow at you with air, and had my carry on luggage taken apart and each electronic item swabbed and checked on some type of machine, etc.

I have to say though, that I had the type of pat down that seems to be discussed here many years ago (2006), at Charles DeGaulle airport. The agent was extremely thorough-in addition to running her hands deeply over all the usual pat down areas, she ran her hands--using her palms, not backs-- over my butt and up my legs right up to--but not over--my crotch, around/in my waistband, over my breasts, and even slid her fingers up under my underwire (using my shirt as a barrier). After the "pat down" she wanded me for good measure.

In all seriousness, it really was not overly invasive--at least not to me. She was fast, polite, and professional. Hopefully that will be the case on Thursday also. I can almost guarantee I'll be finding out!!

 

[bicker]

Good lord, just how suspicious and/or menacing can a 4 y.o. appear to be that would warrant a STRIP SEARCH?

While the youngest suicide bombers are typically at least 10 years old, if authorities gave 4 year olds a blanket pass through security, then those children would become perfect vessels for transporting contraband through security. By applying security in a consistent manner, without regard to the age of the passenger, security is protecting children from being abused in that manner by terrorists.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Whoa, did anyone else see what happened to that poor guy in San Diego? I listened to the whole thing and could tell he genuinely sounded fearful that he was going to be detained when he wanted to leave.

Two things jumped out at me: Is it true that once we initiate the security check we are not free to leave without penalty?
and
Is it true that provisions exist where the TSA has the option to file a civil suit and levy a $10,000 fine on a person who changes their mind due to discomfort midway thorough a search?
Also, he did mention wanting the person who touches him arrested for assault, is that possible? That slippery slope question was in my original post but I don't think it was answered. Are the TSA agents subject to the same laws as regular citizens or not?

WOW, just WOW! I am totally intimidated, this is no joke, if it's true the whole thing is way too hardcore for me so I'm even more firmly rooted to the spot I was in when I started this thread.

***BTW, please don't post any links. From the looks of things the incident is everywhere so there should be no trouble finding it.

***Someone mentioned a poll a while back. I thought about it but didn't do it because this isn't exactly an unbiased cross section so I doubt the results would be anywhere near reliable. I did come across a poll on Reuters that was pretty heavily weighted towards against. As of this moment 55,762 people voted and 96% are making new travel plans, 2% said they will make no change and 2% are undecided. Add to the no count the family unit behind each vote who is lost to the industry and you have a bit of a problem.

 

[Tinkermommy]

I just got back Friday night from a trip to Boston and I went through the new scanners both ways.

As another poster said, I don't wear a belt, I have slip on shoes. I was wearing a chunky silver bracelet which they did a quick look at but that was it. I didn't see anyone in my time in line pulled over and searched (but that was only 15/20 minutes at each airport).

I have to travel for work. And I travel internationally and if you think our screenings are bad, go to some other countries. Much tougher.

Most of the TSA agents I come into contact with are professional. Some are friendly some, some not but I imagine it's a tough job and I try to cut them some slack. I am sure though there are a few that can be complete jerks, but overall the amount of people moved around this country every day I think demonstrates that the system can't be all that bad.

I really don't have a choice about flying (unless I want another job), but I haven't in all my years had a problem.

It is interesting to see that on this board the people who have first hand experience with the new system and people who fly more frequently don't seem to be the ones up in arms about this.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I just got back Friday night from a trip to Boston and I went through the new scanners both ways.

As another poster said, I don't wear a belt, I have slip on shoes. I was wearing a chunky silver bracelet which they did a quick look at but that was it. I didn't see anyone in my time in line pulled over and searched (but that was only 15/20 minutes at each airport).

I have to travel for work. And I travel internationally and if you think our screenings are bad, go to some other countries. Much tougher.

Most of the TSA agents I come into contact with are professional. Some are friendly some, some not but I imagine it's a tough job and I try to cut them some slack. I am sure though there are a few that can be complete jerks, but overall the amount of people moved around this country every day I think demonstrates that the system can't be all that bad.

I really don't have a choice about flying (unless I want another job), but I haven't in all my years had a problem.

It is interesting to see that on this board the people who have first hand experience with the new system and people who fly more frequently don't seem to be the ones up in arms about this.

But there are some big differences between you and I, although my DH does fly for work and is not at all happy with the new measures so not all folks like you are ok with it. He just sent me a link for an Atlantic writer Jeffrey Goldberg who is another frequent flier who took up his pen about this, it was an interesting take IMHO.

Some likely reasons for the disparity, frequent travelers don't have kids along with them when they fly AND because people who fly due to work are actually getting paid to tolerate the situation. Those 2 points make a fairly substantial difference. IF I was alone, IF I was getting paid and IF my flight was free to me I guess I would be more tolerant too.

 

[Por1968]

As of this moment 55,762 people voted and 96% are making new travel plans, 2% said they will make no change and 2% are undecided. Add to the no count the family unit behind each vote who is lost to the industry and you have a bit of a problem.

If that poll is accurate, the airports will be empty and the flights dirt cheap a week from Wednesday. LOL

 

[LuvOrlando]

If that poll is accurate, the airports will be empty and the flights dirt cheap a week from Wednesday. LOL

I don't know how many people are changing plans they already paid for. I would suspect most people will go ahead with what they already have because airfare is so very expensive. I think the big impact for volume will come in a few months as people who were considering purchasing tickets for vacation, such as myself, decide to not do so. The change in plans therefore won't likely have an immediate effect on volume but it will cause an immediate loss in profits as the related companies lose operating income. Since most people usually purchase tickets about 3-4 months out I doubt we'll actually see volume changes before February or so. As for prices, I don't know if they will come down at all. I suspect the airlines might keep them high or hike them up so the people who do and must fly can cover the losses of those who don't, the airlines will likely hope the dip will be short lived and therefore, should be ignored short term. Then again, maybe we'll see some deeper than normal price reductions around Thanksgiving to encourage people to buy for Christmas gifts.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Two things jumped out at me: Is it true that once we initiate the security check we are not free to leave without penalty?
and
Is it true that provisions exist where the TSA has the option to file a civil suit and levy a $10,000 fine on a person who changes their mind due to discomfort midway thorough a search?

Can't find anything specific to this on the TSA website, but is it possible (that's an actual question) that the passenger in question - since he was going hunting, no? - had some type of weaponry with him, either on his person or in his carry--on luggage? THAT would, yes, subject him to at least a fine; I can't tell about the civil suit from just skimming tsa.gov http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/enforcement_sanction_guidance_policy.pdf - see Section VI

IF I was alone, IF I was getting paid and IF my flight was free to me I guess I would be more tolerant too.

Well, I will be alone - but I'll have paid for my flight and it's leisure travel so... my travel conditions won't change my mind or opinion. I will go to/through whatever line or machine I'm directed, I will stand or sit as directed, I will undergo any back- or front-hand pat-down as required. I'm taking a highly anticipated and well-deserved vacation, and only hospitalization or death will stop me.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Can't find anything specific to this on the TSA website, but is it possible (that's an actual question) that the passenger in question - since he was going hunting, no? - had some type of weaponry with him, either on his person or in his carry--on luggage? THAT would, yes, subject him to at least a fine; I can't tell about the civil suit from just skimming tsa.gov http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/enforcement_sanction_guidance_policy.pdf - see Section VI

Well, I will be alone - but I'll have paid for my flight and it's leisure travel so... my travel conditions won't change my mind or opinion. I will go to/through whatever line or machine I'm directed, I will stand or sit as directed, I will undergo any back- or front-hand pat-down as required. I'm taking a highly anticipated and well-deserved vacation, and only hospitalization or death will stop me.

If he had the weapon on his person he would have been arrested so since he wasn't I think it's safe to assume the hunting gear was safely & appropriately accounted for with his checked luggage. As far as I know it is perfectly legal to carry weapons on a plane if all necessary licenses are up to date and they are secured appropriately.

Check out the TSA for "Traveling with Special Items" for a complete explanation.

Ohh, on that page it just so happens they state clearly "We and other authorities strictly enforce these regulations. Violations can result in criminal prosecution and civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation." so I guess that answers one of my questions.
Good thing you mentioned the issue or I wouldn't have noticed that particular page. Ah-ha, I just found a portion called the "Enforcement Sanction Guidance Table" which provides specific info on this. The numbers don't ad up to $10,000 unless the guy in San Diego could be charged and fined for multiple offenses. It seems him walking away is a violation of more than one.

 

[Tinkermommy]

But there are some big differences between you and I, although my DH does fly for work and is not at all happy with the new measures so not all folks like you are ok with it. He just sent me a link for an Atlantic writer Jeffrey Goldberg who is another frequent flier who took up his pen about this, it was an interesting take IMHO.

Some likely reasons for the disparity, frequent travelers don't have kids along with them when they fly AND because people who fly due to work are actually getting paid to tolerate the situation. Those 2 points make a fairly substantial difference. IF I was alone, IF I was getting paid and IF my flight was free to me I guess I would be more tolerant too.

I didn't say I was "OK" with it. I stated what I experienced. I am not a cheerleader for the TSA, but I am pragmatic enough to not kick up a fuss or go through the line with a major attitude towards the TSA agents.

I would like to think the new measures are more secure. I guess time will tell. But really, what happens if they do go back to the other system then another attack happens. Don't you think people will want the the head of the TSA roasted for not doing enough?

As for the pp who mentioned Israel, here's a link for an article on increased security at that airport.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=193816

Recently, there have been more terrorists warnings and such around the world. The US issued one about traveling to Europe (which came out while I was in Europe and I am going back in January). They also found suspicious material coming into the US from Arab countries several weeks ago.

So, I would rather put the blame on all of this on the terrorists and not the TSA. If there are a few agents that overstep, then they should be dealt with.

 

[ccgirl]

I travel with my children and do not have a problem with it. We will be travelling Dec 2nd. I have researched the backscatter and feel it is safe for my family. We will all be going through that. As I said; I have prepared my children in a positive matter. If they are pulled out for a search we have also demonstrated in a calm and positive manner what may happen. IDK...I guess I just don't see anything sexual about this. I find when you go into things with a negative, guns blazing attitude you are more likely to have a negative outcome. Conversely, when you go into things with a positive attitude, the resulting experience tends to be positive. Perhaps it's the fact that we have already been exposed to the new security methods firsthand that I am non confrontational about the issue. I respect others have their own opinions.

I called my senator and told them I was in favor of the new methods. We had a discussion about how people who have negative experiences or are against issues talk more than those that have positive experiences or are for certain issues.

 

[ford family]

We are heading back to the UK tomorrow, will let you know if we notice any difference from the last return.
We usually hub into Atlanta from London before continuing to Sarasota/Bradenton or Tampa. Having passed through immigration and then customs, all ATL international arrivals catching an onward flight have to go through TSA security checks, presumably because they consider foreign airport security to be inferior to themselves. We noticed nothing different on the way in three weeks ago.
We are back here in January so, again, will look out for any changes.

Were you aware that visitors from the visa waiver countries now have to complete an online application to the Dept of Homeland Security and gain approval before being allowed to fly? The approval is good for two years and costs $14 pp.

ford family

 

[Bell30012]

My daughter and I are frequent travelers and ATL was the only strip search that either of us have ever been selected for. The TSA Agents said that the decision to strip search her was based on the computer choosing randomly having to do with boarding pass number or seat assignment.

We did undergo futher searching once at BOS due to little sparkly threads in my daughter's dress that set off the metal detector. A mistake we've never repeated.

There are people in this world that would use a child to carry something onto an airplane that they should not so I understand the need for screening. However, there are many times that I believe the agent needs to use a measure of common sense with the regulations.

When we set off the metal detector at Boston Logan, the TSA agent was very nice, very friendly and ran a wand over the dress then cleared us. My daughter changed dresses with something in her carry on so as not to have an issue at our next connecting airport as we had a layover and were planning to leave the airport for dinner.

 

[jodifla]

I just got back Friday night from a trip to Boston and I went through the new scanners both ways.

As another poster said, I don't wear a belt, I have slip on shoes. I was wearing a chunky silver bracelet which they did a quick look at but that was it. I didn't see anyone in my time in line pulled over and searched (but that was only 15/20 minutes at each airport).

I have to travel for work. And I travel internationally and if you think our screenings are bad, go to some other countries. Much tougher.

Most of the TSA agents I come into contact with are professional. Some are friendly some, some not but I imagine it's a tough job and I try to cut them some slack. I am sure though there are a few that can be complete jerks, but overall the amount of people moved around this country every day I think demonstrates that the system can't be all that bad.

I really don't have a choice about flying (unless I want another job), but I haven't in all my years had a problem.

It is interesting to see that on this board the people who have first hand experience with the new system and people who fly more frequently don't seem to be the ones up in arms about this.

Before I went through the new machines, I thought they were no big deal. I didn't understand the fuss. After going through them, I can see they might be a VERY big deal for certain populations of people, particularly small children or children with disabilities. They are big, they require you to be absolutely still, and the millimeter ones doors whirl around you (as I recall) Not all children will stand around willingly letting people run their hands all over them, no matter how much the parents try to explain and prep them for it.

The also take about 20 times longer than just walking through a metal detector.


I also started doing more research and it seems that not EVERYONE is onboard that all the machines using radiation are safe.

Then we have the fact that TSA is trying to "punish" those who opt out...I think public debate on these matters is important.

 

[C.Ann]

Before I went through the new machines, I thought they were no big deal. I didn't understand the fuss. After going through them, I can see they might be a VERY big deal for certain populations of people, particularly small children or children with disabilities. They are big, they require you to be absolutely still, and the millimeter ones doors whirl around you (as I recall) Not all children will stand around willingly letting people run their hands all over them, no matter how much the parents try to explain and prep them for it.

The also take about 20 times longer than just walking through a metal detector.


I also started doing more research and it seems that not EVERYONE is onboard that all the machines using radiation are safe.

Then we have the fact that TSA is trying to "punish" those who opt out...I think public debate on these matters is important.

Uh oh! "Around" as in if someone had severe claustrophobia it would trigger a reaction?

 

[CPT Tripss]

If the guy that objected had weapons in his carry on, the LEOs would have been called immediately.

Using Israeli airport security as a benchmark really isn't valid. It also means accepting:
limited flight schedules (their airports are small),
profiling,
and no WBIs (Israeli security experts don't like them.)