TSA mess and the police

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I flew twice this week and during one of the screening processes I was pulled aside for the pat down. The departure airport is fairly small and does not (yet) have the scanners; when I went through the traditional metal detectors the metal in my ankle from serious fracture repair a few years ago triggered the alarm.

I was "patted" by a female TSA agent. She was wonderfully polite and professional. At each move that she made, she gave me a full explanation of what to expect. I felt the procedure was thorough without being invasive. Her hands were gloved and she primarily used the back of her hands.

The procedure was quick, respectful and as unobtrusive as it could possibly be. I am one of those people who has ABSOLUTELY no problem with the scanners, but I will admit pondering some hesitancy were my college-aged daughters have to face a pat down.

After my experience, my concerns were alleviated.

.

Glad you had a safe, non eventful flight Rascal mom, unfortuantely I'm betting that this will be met with skecpticsm that you could not have possible gone through the security, because you were in no way violated so you must have been lucky.

Happy flying in the future.
 
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Horror stories are the exception, despite what the media and YouTube would lead one to believe. Look at the number of so-called horror stories (even including the intentional ones run amok like the "junk" guy in San Diego) compared to the total number of domestic airline passengers departing in the last forty days. Minimal.

How many horror stories are too many? Most of the repoted situations have involved multiple TSAers and usually include at least one supervisor. That's more than a "rotten egg" here and there.
 
To be honest, I haven't seen one "horror story" to date. Lots of histrionics, but nothing that would have bothered me .

Amen and hallelujah,

CPT, one horror story is one too many if you are the person going through it, but the next step is what to do with the story.

1) try to root out the problem and institute safe guards to minimize the effects.
2) start screaming "rape, molestion, nazism, socialism, egg sucking procedure" and then exaggerate the problem for the express purpose of creating fear.

Like I said, the only correlation I can think of is police brutality, yes, it most definitely occurs so do we then turn around to say all policemen are extreme, violent, thugs. No we don't, we try to get rid of the bad cops and train the good ones to make them better. The same with the TSA.

Personally I think the problem is you don't like the procedure so even if we never, ever heard of another agent issue, you still would not like the procedure.

So then we are back to the issue of people wanting the type of security "they" are personally comfortable with and any thing else is evil.

Why are the stories like the one from Rascals mom where she had a non eventful experience with the TSA summarily dismissed? could it be, because it doesn't fit your agenda and no matter how many there are, it never will?
 

When cops get retrained for stuff like DWB, is our expectation is that they cease the practice? Or, are we OK with them coming up with more creative ways/rationals to make the stops? Why do we teach our teenage sons to be obsequious when stopped by a cop . . . particularly if there is no apparent reason for the stop.

I do not deny that many TSAers conduct themselves properly. I don't doubt for a minute individual reports of no incident screenings. But, do you notice that many, if not most of them, involve not going through the WBI and/or no pat down. I have experience many of the "old style" patdowns . . . they were not invasive. Can't say the same for the new ones I've received.

Unfortunately, it's not possible to discuss whether/how invasive the pat downs are because TSA refuses to release this part of their processes . . . we have no way of knowing just what they are allowed to do.

Other posters here must have a high level of tolerence. Not bothered by having "drugs" planted in your luggage by a TSAer and then being singled out? Not bothered by having to remove your child's brace and then have him required to stand in order to clear security? Not bothered by having you urine collection bag spilled on you? Not bothered by being required to remove a prosthetic breast?

I'm not trying to change the mind of some of the active posters . . . no percentage to that. I'll be satisfied to just have a few people around to help out if/when "they come for me." apologies to Niemöller
 
Released: November 23, 2010
Zogby Interactive: 61% Oppose Full Body Scans and TSA Pat Downs; 48% Will Seek Alternative to Flying

Frequent Fliers: 59% Oppose Enhancements and 43% Will Seek Alternative to Flying

http://www.zogby.com/templates/printnews.cfm?id=1925

Released: December 10, 2010
Disboards.com - Community Board
100% of posters named DisneyBamaFan Approve Full Body Scans and TSA Pat Downs; 0% Will Seek Alternative to Flying

;)
 
I'm not trying to change the mind of some of the active posters . . . no percentage to that. I'll be satisfied to just have a few people around to help out if/when "they come for me." apologies to Niemöller

hey, I'll help out. I've said from the start that abuses need to be investigated and taken care of.

It's really not about tolerance. The incidents happen, the people involve should have recourses available to them. the number of incidents like this are so astronomically small that we don't need to worry about tolerance.
A urine bag breaking 1 time out of 300 million flyers. No need for me to worry about having to develop any tolerance.

It's not that we have high tolerance, we simply to do not have knee jerk reactions to very extreme situations.

On a very serious note, if you ever feel you are molested by a TSA agent I willl be more than happy to listen objectively and do what I can on your behalf.
 
This may be true, but it is immaterial. The only opinions that matter are those who will be able to impact the policies - and those are the people who fly regularly. Why? Because $$$ is the only thing that will bring sufficient pressure to affect change, and frequent fliers are still flying.

To be frank, the airlines do not care about the person who flies once or twice each year. They will sell you a seat, but they will make no effort to accommodate your needs.

I don't know about this, I know at least one businessman who has not only stopped flying but who has also stopped summoning people to him so his influence is pretty substantial in a domino sort of way. Oddly enough, the company isn't upset with his preference for telecommuting interviews because the bosses seem to be pre-occupied with how good he is at staying under budget:upsidedow Go figure.

I think it is an error in judgment to forget that businesspeople are still just people in the end, as flawed and driven by feelings as I am, as you are and as everyone else on her seems to be. Now which way those feelings tip the scale is another matter entirely. I won't do any grandstanding because I'm not a fan of eating crow and since the numbers just aren't in yet there is no way to know how big the impact is, or isn't here & now. You may be right, maybe people who are opting to not fly are the minority... or maybe we are not. All I know is I've spent my life being surprised by human nature so I'm not betting on the outcome. I'm just curious to see where the majority will pull us all and that remains to be seen
 
Released: December 10, 2010
Disboards.com - Community Board
100% of posters named kaytieeldr Approve Full Body Scans and TSA Pat Downs; 0% Will Seek Alternative to Flying
 
I'm tired (like I think others here got tired) of beating my head against a wall.
I can understand being frustrated when someone won't just drop their own perspectives and bend over to agree with yours.


I know it comes as a shock but more complaints were probably launched about delayed flights than out of control TSA agents.
Good point, and indeed that's the sort of thing that Americans are probably concerned about, not sharing the intense conspiratorial suspicion of the government, the agency and its workers, than many critics of the policy are building their rhetoric on.


How many horror stories are too many?
Which is the kind of question that would be asked by critics frustrated with the fact that their personal preferences are not prevailing over everyone and everything. They want to know how such a small minority could make enough noise (perhaps even making up reports, or presenting the same report multiple times - not sure about that) to change the way things are through casting around unreasonable fear, uncertainty and doubt.

The remarkable level of unjustified suspicion that many critics of this policy have exhibited in the media begins to justify suspicion even on the anecdotal reports that they're bringing to the table. The concept of administering government through such mob mentality tactics, itself, is the problem. It isn't a matter of anecdotes: The proper decision is arrived-at through rational administration of due process, putting aside ridiculous chest-beating and listening for clearer, undeniable indications of the best directions forward. Rightfully, the longer the critics engage in these cynical tactics, the more modification this policy should be undertaken with slow, deliberate care, so as to preclude the impact of such manipulative and deceptive approaches to getting one's own way.


To be honest, I haven't seen one "horror story" to date. Lots of histrionics, but nothing that would have bothered me if it had happened to me.
That's a great word... perhaps that's a better way of describing some of what I've been talking about: "Histrionics."


CPT, one horror story is one too many if you are the person going through it, but the next step is what to do with the story.
1) try to root out the problem and institute safe guards to minimize the effects.
2) start screaming "rape, molestion, nazism, socialism, egg sucking procedure" and then exaggerate the problem for the express purpose of creating fear.
Like I said, the only correlation I can think of is police brutality, yes, it most definitely occurs so do we then turn around to say all policemen are extreme, violent, thugs. No we don't, we try to get rid of the bad cops and train the good ones to make them better. The same with the TSA.
Absolutely.

Personally I think the problem is you don't like the procedure so even if we never, ever heard of another agent issue, you still would not like the procedure.
That's a significant concern. From what I can see in the media and elsewhere, it seems to me that a lot of critics of the policy are so invested in their personal preference that nothing will mitigate that angst - that in some cases, perhaps, the angst itself has become a form of comfort.
 
So basically one opinion is right and everyone else's opinion is wrong... not because of fact since it's all opinion but 'just because'. I think there is a word for that perspective... it's right on the tip of my tongue...
 
Has anyone seen this yet?
Several pages back.

Ambassador Singled Out for TSA Pat Down
Without knowing the reason why this person was selected for additional screening - and it's likely that the reason won't be made public - there's no way to know if the intent was to cause an 'international incident' or a completely random patdown. If you're patting down every seventeenth person, you don't exempt one just because they're "somebody". You'd be invalidating the entire point of random.
 
So basically one opinion is right and everyone else's opinion is wrong...
I said nothing of the sort, but clearly that would be so much easier for you to argue against what I actually did write. Please stop with the self-serving deceptive distortion of what people who disagree with you write, and stick with trying to defend your position. Thanks.
 
I don't know about this, I know at least one businessman who has not only stopped flying but who has also stopped summoning people to him so his influence is pretty substantial in a domino sort of way. ...

I understand, but it will take the business flyers stopping en masse to make a difference. My point wasn't that no business flyers would change their flying habits, but that most will not, and that business flyers are the driving force behind airline profitability.

As things stand now, the airlines just don't care about this.
 
I said nothing of the sort, but clearly that would be so much easier for you to argue against what I actually did write. Please stop with the self-serving deceptive distortion of what people who disagree with you write, and stick with trying to defend your position. Thanks.

Right back atcha
 
I understand, but it will take the business flyers stopping en masse to make a difference. My point wasn't that no business flyers would change their flying habits, but that most will not, and that business flyers are the driving force behind airline profitability.

As things stand now, the airlines just don't care about this.

You can't say that, no-one can say anything definitive yet. There is no way to know what the masses are doing just yet. There is a fairly substantial lag between purchase and use of this particular service so we're all just going to have to wait. It's not that I'm saying you are wrong just that you are probably premature

I'm also not so sure the leisure traveler market is as irrelevant as you contend. Look at how profitable WDW and Universal are, businesses didn't build those businesses, families with disposable income did.... I think we matter

As for what the airlines do or don't care about. I wouldn't assume they are in a position to write off any market. These procedures aren't up to the industry anyway so I don't believe anyone can assume the industry is behind this simply because it exists
 
I understand, but it will take the business flyers stopping en masse to make a difference. My point wasn't that no business flyers would change their flying habits, but that most will not, and that business flyers are the driving force behind airline profitability.

As things stand now, the airlines just don't care about this.

I wouldn't be too sure about this. I don't think you give the pull the leisure traveler has with the airlines enough credit. The entire fee based pricing system we have now is, in large part, because of the leisure traveler. They wanted lower and lower prices, and the airlines continued to lower the prices. Finally, the airlines had to find some way to make up that deficit. If they didn't care about the leisure traveler, they wouldn't have even started down that slope.

Whether you agree with me or not, doesn't really matter. Truth is the airlines can't do anything about this. Who would they complain to? Remember they would be complaining to the same people who decide which airlines get the new routes, the same people who decide how many and which time slots airlines get at major airports, etc. No airline wants to risk getting in bad with the government agencies that make those decisions, so their hands are tied.
 
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