Truth telling time. Can we really complain?

[pandaroo]

I think airlines did themselves a huge disfavor when they continued to keep prices artifically low. Now they are in that awful situation of being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Consumers are so used ot getting a bargain that it could be suicide to raise prices but it's also suicide when you can't cover operational cost and sooner or later you run out of 'extras" to cut.

ITA here. They should have never sold tickets below cost.


I have a scrapbook where I have a plane ticket from over 30 years ago. I can do that same trip today for basically the same cost. That is not possible if the company wants to make money. Airlines can not get costs to fall like electronics.

 

[Ava]

No worries guys because actually each of you are a little bit right. Walmart by their own admissions has pricing guidelines that many manufacturers cannot meet. so many manufacturers will and have shipped jobs to lower cost facilities in order to comply which is pretty much why we make hardly any thing here in the states. Our textile industry is pretty much dead. Unfortunately this is a bigger issue than just walmart.

This hits the nail on the head. It's not just Walmart shipping their production overseas. I work in product development for a retailer (not Walmart) and most of our products are made overseas. I do think consumers are becoming a bit more savvy about where things are made, though. "Made in the USA" is becoming a good selling point to call out on a product.

 

[JB2K]

Just FYI ~ products that are made specifically for Walmart are not always the same. Many people don't know that.

So, you're saying the PPs Tide Detergent isn't as good as yours because they bought it for less at Walmart??

FYI, SaraJayne, what you originally said may apply on a small fraction of products sold at all discount stores (I don't believe for a minute that Procter and Gamble has a seperate "Walmart-only Tide Formula").

A good example is Sony HDTVs - they manufacture a specific "less expensive" line for sale at both Walmart and Target (similar models sold at Sears, Costco, and Best Buy tend to be different model numbers that carry higher price points). Check it out, sometime.

Back to the Tide, the reason it sells for less at Walmart is because WM's merchandisers are able to successfully negotiate lower prices with the vendor (P&G).

 

[clanmcculloch]

I've heard that Tide manufactured for Wal-Mart is actually a different formulation than what they sell elsewhere but I've never looked into it since the Tide at Wal-Mart tends to be more expensive than what I buy at Target. All of my cleaning supplies and paper products are cheaper at Target.

I do find that many of my groceries are cheaper at Super Wal-Mart but I do know that not all of them are the same as what's being sold in regular grocery stores. I called Perdue one time to find out what their "seasonings" are that they add to some of their chicken (I call because of food allergies; it's very important for me to know what's in our food). I was told that what they add to the majority of their raw chicken is just rosemary but the line that is sold at Wal-Mart has more added including at least one of our allergens. We can buy Perdue chicken anywhere except Wal-Mart. This is according to Perdue themselves. They're not the only company that produces different products for Wal-Mart than they distribute elsewhere. I'm not saying this as a criticism; it's a fact. I do shop at Wal-Mart.

 

[JB2K]

You can do the research just like I have and come up with your own conclusion.

I have family that works in businesses that unfortunately work with and have products in Walmart stores.

Methinks she gets her "info" at the two union-sponsored Walmart-bashing websites...

 

[JB2K]

Like I said, you can do the research yourself and come up with your own conclusion. If you're fine with sending thousands of jobs overseas and supporting the world's largest importer of Chinese crap, that's fine. I'm not, so I choose not to support Walmart or their policies.

Sorry OP, for the hi-jack. I'll bow out now, to keep the thread from going further off topic.

Too bad -- I was really wanting to hear more about your "research".

I happen to live very close to a Target store -- from what I can see, most of the stuff they sell comes from China, too -- it's because of something called the "global economy" (did you hear about that in your research?).

Unfortunately, there is very little U.S. manufacturing of consumer goods going-on, anymore (because we Americans priced the cost of making stuff waaaaay too high!).

The reason I picked on Target is because, speaking of "thousands of jobs", all these jobs were lost, last year (I'll let you do your crack research to guess where they went).

As for your retail choices, to each their own -- just make sure you have all your facts straight, first.

 

[Ava]

JB2K is right. It would be next-to-impossible to only purchase items made in the USA & get everything you need to keep your current lifestyle. (I say next-to-impossible because if I said it was impossible I know someone would come back & tell us how they only own things made in the US. That's just how we roll here on the DIS.)

I don't shop at Walmart, but it's not because they sell things made overseas.

 

[kelly1218]

one way to tell if your Tide is the same at Target, Walmart, or grocery store....check the UPC.

They can't have 2 different formulas with the same UPC. It's a liquid that is considered a HAZMAT if spilled. (crazy, isn't it?)
they can't have 2 separate MSDS(material safety data sheet~the ingredients that could be considered a hazard) for one product.

course you can argue with me that I'm wrong. I'm okay with that :lol:


To the OP....I think the only way I would pay for one of those seats, is if my flight was free. I'd rather pay for comfort.

 

[JB2K]

one way to tell if your Tide is the same at Target, Walmart, or grocery store....check the UPC.

No agrument from me, as the "U" in UPC stands for "Universal" meaning it's the same product (if sold at multiple places).

And you are also right about the MSDS.

To the OP....I think the only way I would pay for one of those seats, is if my flight was free. I'd rather pay for comfort.

My contribution to steer this back to OP is if my flight is within the continental U.S., I would sacrifice and take a "cheap seat" -- going on long-haul trips to places like Australia is a different story...

 

[brunette8706]

Too bad -- I was really wanting to hear more about your "research".

I happen to live very close to a Target store -- from what I can see, most of the stuff they sell comes from China, too -- it's because of something called the "global economy" (did you hear about that in your research?).

Unfortunately, there is very little U.S. manufacturing of consumer goods going-on, anymore (because we Americans priced the cost of making stuff waaaaay too high!).

The reason I picked on Target is because, speaking of "thousands of jobs", all these jobs were lost, last year (I'll let you do your crack research to guess where they went).

As for your retail choices, to each their own -- just make sure you have all your facts straight, first.

*
Excellent post!

 

[melancholywings]

I can actually shop cheaper at our Target than Walmart because of the way I shop. I coupon, I wait for things to be marked down (which Target does fantastic markdowns). And I'm able to save more for the things I want. Walmart does have altered products - such as with movies, games and music they'll require a seperate sku that has been censored. I don't need a store to make a moral choice for me. Or they'll sometimes offer items that are sized slightly different which can make replacement parts difficult.

With airlines - the things that are important to me I don't mind paying a bit more for if it would make my flight more convient. But if I'm paying more I want to feel I'm getting something better - not more fees, banged up suit cases, delayed flights, rules and limitations. The last time we flew the first class patrons looked just as miserable as us regular cabin folk. At least my misery was cheaper.

 

[maggiew]

I'd be willing to buy a ticket with those seats ... if the price was right. (I have teens only, now. I wouldn't fly in those seats if my kids were younger.)

My biggest selling point for airline tickets is price. I choose the cheapest. However, I am willing to pay a little more for convenience. For example, if I can get a direct flight for $20 more than a connecting flight, I will choose the direct flight. If I can fly out of the more convenient airport (there are 3 near me) for $20 more, I will choose the more convenient airport.

So, I start my choice with with price. Then look at the cost of "upgrading" for convenience.

I would buy the "saddle seat" tickets on shorter flights, but not cross country. And DEFINITELY NOT to fly to Europe. I barely found it comfortable taking an overnight flight to Paris in Business class (non-bed type seats).

Another thing I am wondering is if the height of the seat can be adjusted on those saddle seats. I am on the shorter side (4'10") and would hate for my feet to dangle the whole flight!!!

Maggie

 

[Acklander]

Everything is market driven. We, as consumers, have made it quite clear that we want cheaper when it comes to air travel. I remember the old days with expensive airfare that included the crappy TV dinner. I'd much prefer to pay $200 less for my ticket and do without the meal. So, no, I don't complain about missing out on the meal or about the baggage fees. I feel I get my money's worth.
At Disney - before the dining plan, we used to stay on Disney property and eat at a nice sit down meal once a day either in the parks or at one of the hotels. Since they swapped over we now tend to stay off property and eat our nice sit down meal off property. Dollar wise, I'm spending about the same, but I'm getting a lot more variety and better meals off property since they've cheapened it down for the dining plan. So I guess before the Dining plan I felt I was getting my money's worth at Disney, but after the Dining plan it no longer interested me, so I've branched out elsewhere. In this case, the masses have spoken again, however I just don't agree with the masses. No big deal, I was able to find alternatives that works for us.

 

[Ava]

Walmart does have altered products - such as with movies, games and music they'll require a seperate sku that has been censored. I don't need a store to make a moral choice for me.

Ding ding ding... this is why I do not shop at Walmart. Ever since I found out they sell censored versions of CDs, without any labeling to inform the customer, I stopped shopping there.

 

[MomToOne]

Every situation is different, what you are willing to pay is based on the value/benefits you perceive you are getting, and that can change based on many factors. I don't think you can easily say in a broad way what you will and won't accept.

For example, at Christmas I have completely different criteria for picking flights than I do during the summer. During the summer I will pretty much take the cheapest flights that get me where I want within a few days of my target days. Price is my driving deciding factor at that time of year. Convenience may play into the exact airline or airport I pick, but it isn't really the driving factor. But at Christmas, well, let's just say I've spent WAY too much time stranded in different parts of the country during Christmas due to weather over the years. So much so that I now refuse to fly thru certain airports that get hit hard by winter weather. I will not even consider taking any flight through those airports, no matter what the price. So that is my driving decision factor at Christmas time. But I will try and buy tickets early so that I can get a reasonable price on the route I like. And there is a price point where the cost would become a driving factor again - that would mean I just don't travel at Christmas, not take a cheaper route through the cities I hate, but that price point is pretty dang high because I really like to spend Christmas with my family.

 

[eliza61]

Too bad -- I was really wanting to hear more about your "research".

I happen to live very close to a Target store -- from what I can see, most of the stuff they sell comes from China, too -- it's because of something called the "global economy" (did you hear about that in your research?).

Unfortunately, there is very little U.S. manufacturing of consumer goods going-on, anymore (because we Americans priced the cost of making stuff waaaaay too high!).

The reason I picked on Target is because, speaking of "thousands of jobs", all these jobs were lost, last year (I'll let you do your crack research to guess where they went).

As for your retail choices, to each their own -- just make sure you have all your facts straight, first.

Actually we don't price it very high, there is simply no way we can ever compete with manufacturers who only have 3.00 day employee cost.
So that's the dilemma (sp). things from India and China will always be cheaper to manufacture if you don't pay your workers liveable wages or health insurance.

For example: In Costa Rica, which is becoming a popular place to send manufacturing the average hourly wage in 2006 was $1.81/hour
for a unqualified worker. a semi-qualified worker got 1.96 and a qualified worker earned 2.11. Now these are 4 years old figures but I doubt if salary's really jump all that much. So if you're a company making hanes tee shirts do the math? where are you going to manufacture.

You know how whenever you call a computer tech center you get some one from India. There is a reason for that, a computer geek with an engineering degree can make as little as 6,000 a year. So tell me how this is an even playing field. HP is not about to hire Americans when they can increase profits by simply moving operations off american soil. I read a time on line article that said India was happy to report an increase of wages to 65 bucks a month ***Gasp***

 

[amylynne01]

Ding ding ding... this is why I do not shop at Walmart. Ever since I found out they sell censored versions of CDs, without any labeling to inform the customer, I stopped shopping there.

When I was a tween buying singles at Walmart, they were specifically labeled as censored on the price sticker. This was back in the mid 90's (I'm 27 now), so I don't know if that's changed.

For me, there is a fine line between quality and price. Of course I want the best quality on whatever I'm buying. The reality is that many people are on a budget and can't afford the best quality, so they have to filter quality by price. Walmart Tide might be cheaper than Target Tide (if there is a different formulation), so people buy Walmart Tide regardless of Walmart's treatment of its employees or where its products come from - it's just less expensive. Many people are also unaware of a company's policies and back story, so that doesn't come into play.

 

[pandaroo]

Here is a site (peapod) that lists Tide UPCs

http://products.peapod.com/10.html



Here is the one from Walmart.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tide-Clea...ra-Detergent-100-fl-oz/11045876#ProductDetail

UPC code 3700013816

Product - Tide 2x Ultra With A Touch Of Downy Detergent, Clean Breeze, 100 fl oz


Guess what.... that UPC code is at peapod too and the description is the same. SAME product.

 

[kelly1218]

When I was a tween buying singles at Walmart, they were specifically labeled as censored on the price sticker. This was back in the mid 90's (I'm 27 now), so I don't know if that's changed.

For me, there is a fine line between quality and price. Of course I want the best quality on whatever I'm buying. The reality is that many people are on a budget and can't afford the best quality, so they have to filter quality by price. Walmart Tide might be cheaper than Target Tide (if there is a different formulation), so people buy Walmart Tide regardless of Walmart's treatment of its employees or where its products come from - it's just less expensive. Many people are also unaware of a company's policies and back story, so that doesn't come into play.

it has changed. they only sell the censored versions. But I don't recall it being a 'secret' ...so it's never bothered me.

 

[Ava]

it has changed. they only sell the censored versions. But I don't recall it being a 'secret' ...so it's never bothered me.

I found out when I unknowingly bought a censored version of an album from Walmart. There was no label on the CD itself & no signage in the store saying that they sell only edited versions. Maybe Walmart regulars just "know" these types of things, but I rarely shopped there & had no idea. I only realized it when I saw the same CD at another store & there were two versions - one with a "Parental Advisory" sticker on it and one labeled "Clean Version." So, at least at my local Walmart, it was a "secret" in that there was no labeling or signage to inform customers that they were buying an edited product.

ETA: IIRC, this was in the early 2000s.