Tron Line - No ECV's, Move to Wheelchair?

[Ryoukoe]

Due to issues I have with my back, I cannot stand or walk for long periods of time, which necessitates me renting an ECV when we go to Disney. In the past I have always signed up for the DAS pass, but obviously with the rules changes I am running into issues. My biggest one is this...when I come to a line, which Disney has told me through DAS all lines are ADA compliant, that I cannot use my ECV in, they expect me to move into a wheelchair they provide. I cannot push myself or "walk" myself using said wheel chair. The amount of contorting and everything that would require me to do would cause tremendous pain and issues to my back. The other option is someone in my party can push me, if I am lucky enough at the time to have someone in my party able to do so. This past trip, my sister was exhausted, she did not have it in her to push me through the line for 50 minutes for us to ride Tron. But also, I shouldn't have to rely on a family or party member to help me get through a line when Disney removed something because they said they were compliant yet obviously they aren't! Before, when we used the lightning line side of things, I could use my scooter to get up to the part where they asked me to exit the ECV, I would, I would get on the ride and then get back on my scooter.

In the end, we couldn't ride the ride because there were no options. When we went to space mountain they put us in the lightning lane because the original had stairs and I couldn't go through it and the line for jungle cruise was the same, they gave us a time to come back. Is it just me? This is a new ride, should I have broached this ride differently in terms of accomodations? Conversations with DAS when I try to explain their reasoning of the use of a wheelchair get me nowhere, there is nothing wrong with my legs or arms, its my back.

 

[lanejudy]

There are several attractions that require an ECV user to transfer to a wheelchair. The challenge is typically related to limited space for parking ECVs at the ride load area. It doesn't mean the queue is not ADA accessible -- which pertains to the lack of physical barriers, width, level/slope and turning space. ADA standards were designed based on wheelchair use.

Jungle Cruise has actual steps in the queue, which is a physical barrier making it inaccessible to mobility devices. That's why anyone with an ECV or wheelchair is directed to an alternate entrance (possibly with a return time).

DAS will not be provided for mobility-related needs. Some options include:

• You can certainly ask at an attraction if there is a CM available to push, though they are not required to provide that.
• You can also ask if there is any alternative -- such as your sister and nephew wait in the queue and you join them via the LL.
• Another option is to buy a LL if that shorter queue is easier for you to manage.

 

[Evita_W]

Honestly, there is absolutely NO excuse to design queues without keeping ECVs in mind for new attractions like this. I understand older attractions or ones that retrofit old buildings, but for new attractions, there is no excuse. I don't think you should have to purchase LL to get accomodations, the long standby queue is simply not workable for those in manual wheelchairs and should automatically be given a return time, especially those that are using ECVs and are being forced to transfer to a manual chair.

I also think ADA needs to be updated to reflect all mobility devices, not just wheelchairs, but there is a lot that needs updating with ADA laws in general.

 

[bluecruiser]

Good info/points by both previous posters. I wanted to add my experience
from my last trip where I rode Tron in 2023 as a solo party using an ECV - see below. As mentioned, there is no guarantee there would be a CM available to push you in a wheelchair.

Following up with my experience on Tron last week. I ended up not taking my power chair this trip. Since I was using an ECV, I asked a CM near the start of the standby line for the procedure to follow. He had to get permission from his lead, but he took me through the queue in a wheelchair (using some backstage areas to bypass parts of the queue). I was lucky that I didn't have to wait a long time for a train with the standard back car (since I can't do the regular ride seats due to size as well as arthritic knees).

 

[Ryoukoe]

I have a better understanding of what I need to do moving forward I think. I will be proactive and move to the CM asking advising of my limitations and asking how things are handled from there as Bluecruiser suggested. Thank you everyone for your advice.

 

[lanejudy]

I also think ADA needs to be updated to reflect all mobility devices, not just wheelchairs

Other than turning radius for ECVs, would there be anything different (larger) for any other mobility devices?

 

[Evita_W]

Other than turning radius for ECVs, would there be anything different (larger) for any other mobility devices?

Well, for one needing to specify that they need to be allowed anywhere that motorized wheelchairs are allowed to go, which is anywhere manual wheelchairs are allowed to go (i.e. all attraction queues, especially newer queues like for Tron). Additionally:

• Accessible paths and entrances need to be able to support the full weight of an ECV
• Turning radius as you mentioned
• Width of paths to ensure that two devices can safely pass each other
• Size of lifts and elevators to ensure the devices can fit
• Make sure state as well as local laws and ordinances cover such devices being able to use the road when necessary due to improper sidewalks, etc. This is already done in many places, but a lot don't make allowances for that and only specify wheelchairs.
• Also make sure local laws and ordinances treat ECVs the same as wheelchairs in that they are considered pedestrians

I am guessing there is more, but these are a few things I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Well, for one needing to specify that they need to be allowed anywhere that motorized wheelchairs are allowed to go, which is anywhere manual wheelchairs are allowed to go (i.e. all attraction queues, especially newer queues like for Tron). Additionally:

• Accessible paths and entrances need to be able to support the full weight of an ECV
• Turning radius as you mentioned
• Width of paths to ensure that two devices can safely pass each other
• Size of lifts and elevators to ensure the devices can fit
• Make sure state as well as local laws and ordinances cover such devices being able to use the road when necessary due to improper sidewalks, etc. This is already done in many places, but a lot don't make allowances for that and only specify wheelchairs.
• Also make sure local laws and ordinances treat ECVs the same as wheelchairs in that they are considered pedestrians

I am guessing there is more, but these are a few things I can think of off the top of my head.

Just thinking through your list - wouldn’t widening the path effectively remove half of the capacity of the queue, thereby doubling the required length? Or am I thinking about it the wrong way?

It seems like Disney is trying to balance the needs of ECV users with the general population. People already complain about how long (distance wise) some queues are. Plus there is just a physical limit as to how long queues can get in terms of space in the parks. During covid I remember being taken backstage in Galaxy’s Edge to accommodate the Smugglers queue.

I would imagine that a more efficient way to do this is to have one “exit path” that one can exit to from the ends of the switchbacks, so instead of doubling back people needing to exit would have a straight shot out.

 

[DisneyOma]

There are safety warnings at Tron for back issues - might not be worth the time to queue for that one!

 

[Lewisc]

Treat ECV as wheelchairs and as pedestrians? The speed should be limited; similar to the rental ECVs at Disney.

 

[lanejudy]

Well, for one needing to specify that they need to be allowed anywhere that motorized wheelchairs are allowed to go, which is anywhere manual wheelchairs are allowed to go (i.e. all attraction queues, especially newer queues like for Tron).

Much of this is what you've listed isn't something that would be specified in ADA standards (which are primarily building code standards).

An ECV is already be recognized as an ADA-acceptable mobility device. If you encounter businesses that don't recognize it as such that is something to take up with the business.

The challenge at the theme parks for the attractions that don't allow ECVs is quite literally parking -- and more specifically parking at the loading zone. I know of no ADA specifications that indicates amount of "parking" space that must be provided for unattended mobility devices. More accessible attractions/ride cars I can agree is needed, but since I'm not very knowledgeable of the design of such things I do understand there may be complications that aren't as obvious to the general public.

Unfortunately some of what you've listed must be issues with grandfathered buildings. Elevators do have specifications, though older ones may not be at current standards and likely cannot be updated without major renovations. State and local laws and ordinances -- again, not specifically something to update ADA but it needs to be brought to the local governance.

I understand what you are saying about using roadways, but I'm a little confused why. If the sidewalk is blocked or unpassable, wouldn't removing the blockage be a better solution than laws allowing mobility devices to use the road? If there is no sidewalk, again petitioning the local municipality to put in safe sidewalk/pedestrian pathways is the better solution. I disagree with allowing use of ECVs in the driving lanes; if you want them treated like pedestrians they don't belong on the road.

 

[Evita_W]

An ECV is already be recognized as an ADA-acceptable mobility device. If you encounter businesses that don't recognize it as such that is something to take up with the business.

And yet Disney doesn't recognize it as such at many of their attractions requiring you to transfer to a wheelchair, as evidenced by the OP here.

 

[Evita_W]

The challenge at the theme parks for the attractions that don't allow ECVs is quite literally parking -- and more specifically parking at the loading zone. I know of no ADA specifications that indicates amount of "parking" space that must be provided for unattended mobility devices. More accessible attractions/ride cars I can agree is needed, but since I'm not very knowledgeable of the design of such things I do understand there may be complications that aren't as obvious to the general public.

It isn't hard to provide for adequate parking for mobility devices, althugh you may have to control flow to ensure that too many aren't in the load/uinload area at once, but again when building an attraction from the ground up, this can be accounted for.

 

[Evita_W]

Much of this is what you've listed isn't something that would be specified in ADA standards (which are primarily building code standards).

ADA actually covers far more than just building codes, there is a lot there to unpack if you delve deep enough and there needs to be more protections as well. There also needs to be federal jail time for intentionally violating ADA laws for both the indvidual as well as the business owner/CEO as applicable. Making a mistake and correcting it is one thing, but knowingly doing it is another.

 

[Evita_W]

Unfortunately some of what you've listed must be issues with grandfathered buildings. Elevators do have specifications, though older ones may not be at current standards and likely cannot be updated without major renovations. State and local laws and ordinances -- again, not specifically something to update ADA but it needs to be brought to the local governance.

There is literally no reason to grandfather ANY building anymore, we have way too much technology to work around it and yes, it may require major rennovations, but there can be systems put in place to fine larger companies for ADA violations (in addition to the aforementioned jail time) and then use those fines to assis smaller businesses with rennovations. But in this case we are discussing a new attraction built from the ground up, so that isn't really applicable.

 

[Evita_W]

I understand what you are saying about using roadways, but I'm a little confused why. If the sidewalk is blocked or unpassable, wouldn't removing the blockage be a better solution than laws allowing mobility devices to use the road? If there is no sidewalk, again petitioning the local municipality to put in safe sidewalk/pedestrian pathways is the better solution. I disagree with allowing use of ECVs in the driving lanes; if you want them treated like pedestrians they don't belong on the road.

Yes, I agree that would be the ideal solution; however, that doesn't help in the real world when traveling down the road and the laws allow for pedestrians to be in the driving lanes when safe sidewalks are not available, so my suggestion is consistent with existing rules. Luckily in my state ECVs are treated as both pedestrians and bikes, it is kind of a weird thing, but basically it says ECVs are allowed anywhere pedestrians or bikes would be allowed.

ETA: Sorry for splitting this up into multiple responses, for some reason, it no longer allows me to split up my replies in a single post.

 

[gottalovepluto]

Some rides it's just not going to be possible for you to ride then. Tron did not allow my ECV user to take the ECV in either (I don't think the ECVs can navigate that initial hallway area safely). Was it idiotically cheap that they didn't make that thing ECV accessible? Yup. C'est la vie.

 

[lanejudy]

ADA actually covers far more than just building codes, there is a lot there to unpack if you delve deep enough and there needs to be more protections as well.

Yes there is a lot more. I was responding to your comment about the ADA needing to be updated regarding mobility devices. And what you listed is already in the ADA or it’s not something that would be covered by national legislation.

And yet Disney doesn't recognize it as such at many of their attractions requiring you to transfer to a wheelchair, as evidenced by the OP here.

Disney does recognize ECVs are an acceptable mobility device. If it wasn’t recognized they would not offer wheelchairs at those attraction. As already mentioned, the issue with ECVs and some ride queues is parking at the ride loading area. Segways are not allowed at WDW but they are still recognized by the ADA as a mobility devices. Safety of all guests must be considered, not just device preference for disabled guests.

 

[Evita_W]

Yes there is a lot more. I was responding to your comment about the ADA needing to be updated regarding mobility devices. And what you listed is already in the ADA or it’s not something that would be covered by national legislation.



Disney does recognize ECVs are an acceptable mobility device. If it wasn’t recognized they would not offer wheelchairs at those attraction. As already mentioned, the issue with ECVs and some ride queues is parking at the ride loading area. Segways are not allowed at WDW but they are still recognized by the ADA as a mobility devices. Safety of all guests must be considered, not just device preference for disabled guests.

In my opinion A wheelchair as a replacement option is not acknowledging the ECV as a mobility device. It isn't device preference when it comes to ECVs and there aren't safety issues like with a Segway which can tip over when not in use. There is a huge difference between Segway and ECVs.

Again, there is ZERO excuse for Disney (and Universal for Epic Universe for that matter) to not have allowed for ECVs to be taken throughout the entire queues for new attractions that have been built from scratch and that is an example of what protections should be added to ADA.