Transportation nightmare.... all week, every bus.. Touchy subject matter

[joelkfla]

the new buses are now starting to out number the old buses they have in use.

Actually by a large margin. I think only about 1/5 of the buses in the fleet now are high-floor, and many of those are kept in reserve to be used only during the heaviest times of the year, or when a larger than normal number of the newer buses are out of service.

Also, even though the chair can be folded, if you explain the situation, the driver should be willing to strap it unfolded into one of the wheelchair slots, as long they are not all needed by other guests.

 

[buckeev]

We just finished our first day on this trip, and even though the park crowds weren't very bad, the buses seemed to be as bad as post-Christmas week's crowd. I'm not sure why, but something has changed...maybe today was just a bad day.

 

[bookwormde]

Joelkfla

"A bus that is not full should never leave able-bodied guests behind just because there is no room for another wheelchair. The wheelchair guest should be advised that another bus will be in shortly, while other guests continue to load"

This is the ADA compliance methodology that WDW has chosen to use. They could use other methods but they would likely have much higher costs.

With all guests in one line (including those with disabilles, and when the 4 seats are standard for the bus fleet, the occurrence of bypass if unable to accommodate should be cut by around 90%.

This is long standing federal discrimination law.

bookwormde

 

[goofy4tink]

My son is special needs, age 22 now, and uses a Convaid Chair at WDW. It is a large heavy chair. I have to fold it up and carry it into the bus, he will not stay in it for the bus lift (too scary for him, he has Downs and Autism, and orthopedic and balance issues). that chair, folded up, is still very large and heavy. Too heavy for me to carry myself, plus help DS up and down the bus steps.

If DH is not on the trip, I drive to all the parks. I just can't deal with the buses at WDW. I rent a mid size SUV and can manage to get the chair in the back. Yes, it costs me $$ but saves me so much time, and stress.

Next trip we will be at BLT, which is a DREAM, to walk to MK with him in his chair, and we will drive to the other parks. (driving to MK is a nightmare, I cannot get that chair into the trams)

Just my .02, I drive more and it makes things easier.......

You seem to realize what works best for you and your ds...and that's the way it should be. Unfortunately, the bus system does not work for everyone. And there is no way Disney is going to make that system perfect for everyone. So, each family needs to do what you have done....decide what works for them.
Sometimes, renting a car is the best thing....even if it does add to the overall cost of the trip.

She got lucky, or took the time to count the number of people in line, then. Because her family members could very well have ended up on a bus or two behind her. We haven't yet gone at very busy times, but I've seen bus lines long enough that if one person got on at the beginning and sent the family off to get in line, the family wouldn't have gotten on the same bus.





Well, yes, I do think that maybe she just wanted it to be the two of them. Why would I suggest it in writing if I didn't think it?

I do NOT think it's doing the right thing, that's the issue, if they actually want to be together. I think that if a family wants to travel together, they should travel together, and shouldn't be split up. And if that means waiting for a bus so the whole family can get on if there are no mobility issues, or if that means letting the entire traveling group on with someone in a wheelchair/scooter, then that's what should be done.

So if I see a family splitting apart like that, yes I do think that they simply don't want to be together right then.

I'm sorry but that's a huge jump....just because someone tried to be polite you say she didn't want to be with her family??? It's reasoning like that that is causing such angst here on the boards. If a family has a special needs person, who has to board via the back door, and the rest of the family wants to all board with them, then that family has now jumped the line. How is that fair?? They arrive just as the bus is pulling up, others have been waiting for a bit, but the special needs family gets to jump on right then? Nope, that's not fair. What would be polite would be for the parent to tell the driver they will wait for the next bus, so the 'healthy' members of the family can get into the line and be assured a spot on the bus with the wheelchair/ecv member, rather than cutting everyone else in the line. This way, they could get into the line and be assured seats together. The only time it would entail more than waiting through one bus would be at park closing.....then all bets are off.

But I have to say that to make the assumption that a mother wanted to be away from her family simply because she boarded with her ds and sent the rest to board with the 'general population'?? I'm sorry, that's just not right. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. But, the woman did something polite and friendly and you say it's because she was tired of being with her family. Sorry, not fair. It's a bus ride for crying out loud. They would be on the same bus...you can pretty much tell if you'll be on the same bus. If the line is overly long, then they can all wait for the next bus....wheelchair and healthy folks. That's like the father, with the huge folded up double stroller who gets on the bus, with his wife and 3 kids...he has to now stand because the bus is so full, but refuses to move to the back of the bus because he 'has' to be with his family!!! Seriously??? You make everyone try to get past you, as you block the aisle, so you can stand next to your seated family??? It's the same bus, going to the same place. Move back, make room for others. Then, meet up when you get to the park. But, then again...maybe they want to 'travel together'!!!

 

[Missytara]

I was at POR two weeks ago and I can say the bus drivers did enforce the fact that an entire family CANNOT board with one ECV. In addition, he stopped people just walking up and into the back open doors as he had just loaded one or two ECV's; while we were all waiting patiently at the front doors. This happened several times during the week and every bus driver I saw enforced it every time.

 

[goofy4tink]

I was at POR two weeks ago and I can say the bus drivers did enforce the fact that an entire family CANNOT board with one ECV. In addition, he stopped people just walking up and into the back open doors as he had just loaded one or two ECV's; while we were all waiting patiently at the front doors. This happened several times during the week and every bus driver I saw enforced it every time.

Man, I wish my bus drivers had enforced that 'no entering through the rear door' while we were there. We also stood there, patiently waiting our turn, while others who were obviously more important, hopped on via the rear exit door!! Drives me nuts. Can they not read??? It's pretty obvious. I do enjoy watching what happens when an observant driver closes the door on the offending boarder though!!! Man, that guest gets all nudgy and starts yelling at the driver. And the driver calmy explains that it is an exit door, not an entrance...as noted on the doorway itself.

There is signage the bus stops stating that up to 6 (I believe that's the number) family members can board with the disabled person...all others should board via the regular line, through the front door.

 

[nkereina]

It's up to the bus driver to enforce it. All they can do is ask the party to split up. If the party makes a fuss, all they can do is hold the bus and call for a manager. Then the entire bus may be waiting half an hour for a manager, who may let the entire party on anyway. And if the entire party has been waiting with the wheelchair, because there is no sign telling them to split up, or they didn't see the sign, or just ignored it, how can you undo what's been done and insert them where they would have been in the queue?

It shouldn't be up to the bus driver to enforce it though. They are employees of Disney. Disney should come down and say this is a rule and needs to be enforced across the board. But we know how good they are with that

If the party makes a fuss, the driver should simply point to the posted sign and tell them take it or leave it. No need to call a manager. I know the rule is posted at POR, and I'd imagine other depots as well. If it's a posted sign there's nothing to argue about and no manager to call. If they didn't see the sign or ignored it - that's their own problem. If I was returning something in the store and didn't see the sign that said "no returns", I wouldn't expect the store to take back my items simply because I didn't see or ignored the sign. If it's a posted policy, there should be no remedy.

 

[buckirj1]

A lot of this sort of thing would go away if people didn't travel in packs and herds. Young children and special needs notwithstanding, you'd think most folks could split up for a bus ride. You'll all get to where you're going eventually.

I never have any trouble--I board the bus, move as far back as I can, sit down if I can, and give up my seat to someone who needs it more when necessary. If I can't get on one bus, another one will be coming along soon.

 

[maxiesmom]

A lot of this sort of thing would go away if people didn't travel in packs and herds. Young children and special needs notwithstanding, you'd think most folks could split up for a bus ride. You'll all get to where you're going eventually.

That strikes me as a very odd comment. If people are vacationing together, and wanting to go to the same park at the same time, why wouldn't they want to travel together? Of course if they go on different buses they can meet up eventually, but who wants to hang around in the park waiting for the rest of the family to show up, maybe 20 minutes or more later?

When I am on vacation with my family, we like to travel together. Splitting up if we are going to be going to the same place seems strange and unnatural.

 

[mb187143]

That strikes me as a very odd comment. If people are vacationing together, and wanting to go to the same park at the same time, why wouldn't they want to travel together? Of course if they go on different buses they can meet up eventually, but who wants to hang around in the park waiting for the rest of the family to show up, maybe 20 minutes or more later?

When I am on vacation with my family, we like to travel together. Splitting up if we are going to be going to the same place seems strange and unnatural.

but there are people who vacation with family or friends who don't all go to the same park on the same day and ride every ride together. When we go on a family vacation as an extended family, we often do our big meals together, and then depending on who wants to see what, split up. Even if we're all in the same park, it's rare that all 30 of us are in the same place at once (except maybe dinner), including at the bus stop. So for someone like you, who doesn't tour that way, of course the comment doesn't make sense. It's not your style. It doesn't mean that it's "strange and unnatural". It just means that for some groups of people, it is normal for them to split up and re-connect at the park or at the resort, because that's how they vacation. When we went in September, my sister, who is not an early riser, often met us at the parks 2-3 hours after my fiance and i got there, and often that was an hour or so after my parents had gone. We all met up when we met up. For us to all have been up and at the bus stop with my parents who are rope-droppers, or to have had to wait for my sister (when it's safer for all involved not to poke the bear in the morning), would have made for a mighty tense vacation for our family.

If it functions better for your family to come and go together, that's great - go for it. Not everyone vacations the same way. But I did see the signs at every resort we were at in December - with an ECV, parties of 6 may board with the person in the ECV, everyone else should go in the line. I believe there was even verbiage that they may need to re-group at their destination, if i remember correctly. I'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong on that though. The bus driver did enforce it while we were there, and the rest of the family was fine with it. They did not all make it onto that bus, they waited for the next.

 

[KGK]

The easy solution is for Disney to have an adequate number of quality, affordable scooters available at each park.

For what I would pay for a scooter for 2 days at WDW, I can rent an offsite scooter for a week.

If Disney did have a large fleet of scooters: It's cheaper than buying a new fleet of buses, it would cut the frustration level of EVERYONE traveling by buses and it would speed up the transportation system.

Disney could rent space to an offsite company if they did not want to have a large fleet of scooters.

From the boards I gather that I am not alone in needing a scooter in the parks, not necessarily at the resorts. It's a workable solution.

 

[maxiesmom]

but there are people who vacation with family or friends who don't all go to the same park on the same day and ride every ride together. When we go on a family vacation as an extended family, we often do our big meals together, and then depending on who wants to see what, split up. Even if we're all in the same park, it's rare that all 30 of us are in the same place at once (except maybe dinner), including at the bus stop. So for someone like you, who doesn't tour that way, of course the comment doesn't make sense. It's not your style. It doesn't mean that it's "strange and unnatural".

I agree that sometimes families split up on vacation. We do too. Nothing wrong with it. However, if we are going to the same place at the same time, planning on being together, we would not want to split up. Some of us like to travel together and see the parks as a herd! There is nothing wrong with that either, and the poster I quoted seemed to have a problem with it.

It would be strange and unnatural for people going to the same place and planning on being together to split up onto seperate buses for no better reason than not traveling as a herd.

 

[seashoreCM]

Joelkfla

"A bus that is not full should never leave able-bodied guests behind just because there is no room for another wheelchair. The wheelchair guest should be advised that another bus will be in shortly, while other guests continue to load"

If another bus came and picked up the wheelchair guest within eight minutes (one third of the normal 20 minute headway) then there would probably be no complaints.

However, if we are going to the same place at the same time, planning on being together, we would not want to split up. Some of us like to travel together and see the parks as a herd! There is nothing wrong with that either, and the poster I quoted seemed to have a problem with it.

No one would object to your all staying together if none of you were boarded on the bus ahead of others who were standing in line longer than any of you.

 

[mdinme]

I can't fathom spending thousands on vacation but not renting a car for $16 more per day. Several times I've gotten them for much less.

UNTHINKABLE.

 

[kydisneyfans]

Same as above-our last visit last summer was going to be a "park the car and not move it for a week" trip. After the 2nd day with the unreliable Disney bus system, we drove the rest of the week.

 

[bookwormde]

SeashoreCM,

There are actually very few compaints (from individual with disabilites) anyway, but it would still be a violation of ADA law.

 

[goofy4tink]

A lot of this sort of thing would go away if people didn't travel in packs and herds. Young children and special needs notwithstanding, you'd think most folks could split up for a bus ride. You'll all get to where you're going eventually.

I never have any trouble--I board the bus, move as far back as I can, sit down if I can, and give up my seat to someone who needs it more when necessary. If I can't get on one bus, another one will be coming along soon.

Oh please...don't start thinking logically.

This is just not that big an issue. Let's see...I was at WDW last Dec, for a week, then in April for another stay, back in Oct for a week, and just returned on Monday from 5 days in WDW. I use the buses a lot...seldom renting a car, and even when I did, in April and Oct, I drove to a park just once..and that was to MK on our way back to Sanford on Easter Sunday (had to have our CP breakfast). I didn't see a ton of scooter abuse. I didn't get displaced by scooters or their family members. I watched one woman, on an ECV, roll right to the correct spot, no one in her group stood with her. They got into the 'regular' line.....it was short though, with only about 10 people in it. When the bus arrived, that woman got herself onto that bus more quickly than parents with strollers do. She put herself right into position for tie-down. It was something to watch. Unfortunately, there are many first time ECV riders iin WDW...and they do present an issue. I'm not saying they don't need to ride an ECV, but it might be a good idea if they practiced with it before heading out into public!!

I truly don't see any issue with the ECV rider waiting by themselves, or with one or two family members. That's not an issue. But if they choose to travel together, in a large pack, then they are going to have to make some adjustments. Their choice to head out as a pack shouldn't negatively impact other guests. Now...with that said, I seldom see this 'pack mentality' all that often. What I do see, though, are those who arrive at the bus stop just as the bus arrives, they stand off to the side rather than get in the line. Then, when the bus stops, they wait until they see the last people getting off the bus and they charge in through that rear exit door!!! Now that is what gets my goat!!! Much bigger issue than ECVs and the family that goes along.

I do have to say that I seldom saw any issue with the buses last week. Didn't in Oct either. It's public transportation...it is what it is. And guests need to understand what it is...it is not a personal shuttle service. You are going to have to be cognizant of other guests and their needs. Those that travel with a large group may find that they can't sit together on a bus...or, perish the thought, split up and take different buses. I saw one large family boarding a bus.....had to be about 12 or so in the group. But, since they were last in line, they couldn't all fit. So, rather than have Granny standing up, they sent some on that bus, while others waited for the next bus. They took responsibility for themselves. They didn't depend on the generosity of others. They just dealt with it. It was actually quite refreshing to see.

While I understand that people like to be together and share the good times, there are limits. I mean, where does it stop??? When you see a group of 6, trekking along, arm in arm, taking up a huge amount of space on a path, or that family that simply decides to stop, right in the middle of an exit, with their 3 strollers, and stand there, chatting about what fun they just had, but making it next to impossible for others to get past them?? I could go on, but won't. There needs to be common sense. And I'm sorry, but you can't legistrate common sense. Disney can put out policy until the cows come home...but in the end, they don't want to upset guests. So the guest can pretty much do what they want, within reason. Even if it gets in the way of another guest's enjoyment.

 

[Brian Noble]

I don't have anything to add with regard to the mobility issue question.

However, the OP's other bus troubles seem to have one thing in common: DTD. And, I think that's a fair observation. I work very hard to avoid the bus system if I am going to or leaving DTD. If I have a car, I'll drive. If I don't (or I plan on a second glass of wine with dinner) I either take a cab or if I'm at a resort with boat service, cruise it. Morning character breakfasts at resorts are similar---if I have one of those, I drive or cab, period, end of story. It's not worth the uncertainty of the bus system in that situation.

The buses are generally pretty good for getting between a resort and one of the four major theme parks. For anything else, I always stick to some other means of transportation.

As for the splitting not splitting question: personally, I'd have no problem letting part of my family get on one bus and waiting for the next one, because it is more efficient for the system overall, and it's not like we'll all get there any faster if we all wait. I can see why others would prefer not to.

 

[lylone]

On our last trip we were on our way to DTD after dinner at the Contemporary. A bunch of us had been waiting for awhile for the bus and right when one pulled up, up pulls up two ECVS. They are let on first and then the rest of the people get on. About 10 of us were stopped from getting on the bus because it was too full. That was one taxi ride.
Same thing happened to us on a boat from BC to HS. A bunch of people waiting, ECVs pull up and load in and then we have to wait for the next one because the boat is too full.

It seems that when the ECVs are loaded first, they get to the front of the line and the rest of us have to wait....

 

[maxiesmom]

.

It seems that when the ECVs are loaded first, they get to the front of the line and the rest of us have to wait....

Yes, when they are loaded first, those in line may have to wait. However, they are not always loaded first. Currently most buses have only 2 or 3 spots that can accomodate ecvs. Many times those who use ecvs to get around have to wait for mulitple buses before one comes that has an open spot. Or a working lift. With so few spots available and so many people using ecvs it makes sense to load them if they have a spot open. Also, it is safer for everyone if the ecvs are loaded first, as there are less toes to run over or bodies to bump into that way.