Traded my points, got a call saying the card they paid for them with is fraud

[Sandisw]

For the benefit of those looking to rent out points - what's the best way to make it convenient for the renter and to protect the one renting the points? Do most folks use an escrow service or do transfers via Paypal?
What about liability for damage to the resort if the renter were to cause any?
I'm sure I'm overlooking about a million other things...

Thanks!

In terms of liability, you as the owner are responsible for your guests/renters. So, if damage is done, or a balance left on the account that doesn't go through, your DVC account will be frozen until you get your guest/renter to pay up and settle things with Disney. So, while you are not technically responsible, you won't be able to use your account until the renter settles...in the cases in which this happened (rare), the owner was forced to settle the bill so they could continue using DVC account.

If I were to rent, I would go through a service like David's. It gives just an additional layer to have the middle man helping both sides.

 

[robinb]

In terms of liability, you as the owner are responsible for your guests/renters. So, if damage is done, or a balance left on the account that doesn't go through, your DVC account will be frozen until you get your guest/renter to pay up and settle things with Disney. So, while you are not technically responsible, you won't be able to use your account until the renter settles...in the cases in which this happened (rare), the owner was forced to settle the bill so they could continue using DVC account.

If I were to rent, I would go through a service like David's. It gives just an additional layer to have the middle man helping both sides.

I fail to see how David protects DVC owners from rogue renters. Yes, there is something in the contract but I'm sure that doesn't stop
The kind of renter who trashes a villa or who
does not pay their bills.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Generally, the broker takes on the risks of late/no payment on your behalf. It's part of what their fee covers.

It's worth noting that you get no protection in a Paypal transaction for a timeshare transaction.

https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/...f-real-property-faq799?app=searchAutoComplete

While people use Paypal to accept payment for rentals, if anything goes south, Paypal won't have anything to do with fixing it.

 

[DVC Doctor]

The poster is a 23 year old male (If you believe the profile) and has only posted once and has not returned in 8 days. If he had a Pinocchio avatar, his nose would be pretty long by now.

 

[bwang123]

For the benefit of those looking to rent out points - what's the best way to make it convenient for the renter and to protect the one renting the points? Do most folks use an escrow service or do transfers via Paypal?
What about liability for damage to the resort if the renter were to cause any?
I'm sure I'm overlooking about a million other things...

Thanks!

We've always used Paypal for renting points but they do not protect the seller at all. They only cover tangible items. If you can get the buyer to send "friends and family" through Paypal then they cannot dispute the payment. Though, the friends and family option is a way people use to defraud people so you might not get a lot of participation this way.

 

[zavandor]

In terms of liability, you as the owner are responsible for your guests/renters. So, if damage is done, or a balance left on the account that doesn't go through, your DVC account will be frozen until you get your guest/renter to pay up and settle things with Disney. So, while you are not technically responsible, you won't be able to use your account until the renter settles...in the cases in which this happened (rare), the owner was forced to settle the bill so they could continue using DVC account.

I can remember only one thread regarding a problem for an owner who rented out his points and had his account frozen. It was sorted out by Disney at the end. Really I cannot see how Disney can consider the owner responsible for a bill not paid. As owners we can flag during the reservation the the guest is not the owner. It's up to Disney to decide if they want to grant that person charging privileges or whatever. The ability to charge the room is not granted contractually, so it's not something we can transfer to someone else. Can anyone point a thread when the owner effectively had his account blocked?

 

[Sandisw]

I fail to see how David protects DVC owners from rogue renters. Yes, there is something in the contract but I'm sure that doesn't stop
The kind of renter who trashes a villa or who
does not pay their bills.

I agree. Using a service does not help in the situation of a rogue renter who does damage. I was referring to using them to help in terms of some protection with the renting of the reservation, as he does try to help if there is an issue with payment from a renter for the reservation, or if a renter has an issue with an owner.

 

[Sandisw]

I can remember only one thread regarding a problem for an owner who rented out his points and had his account frozen. It was sorted out by Disney at the end. Really I cannot see how Disney can consider the owner responsible for a bill not paid. As owners we can flag during the reservation the the guest is not the owner. It's up to Disney to decide if they want to grant that person charging privileges or whatever. The ability to charge the room is not granted contractually, so it's not something we can transfer to someone else. Can anyone point a thread when the owner effectively had his account blocked?

I have seen a few over the years but I agree it is rare. The key is that you are the owner of the reservation and that they are your guests. IIRC, the terms of our DVC say that we are responsible for our guests, but remember, it is not that they require you to pay, they simply freeze the account so that you get your guests to pay. And, I will try to find it, but I remember reading that the person ended up just paying the bill because it was easier than trying to find a renter they couldn't find.

 

[LAX]

I fail to see how David protects DVC owners from rogue renters. Yes, there is something in the contract but I'm sure that doesn't stop
The kind of renter who trashes a villa or who
does not pay their bills.

From a purely legal stand point (I am not a lawyer, so that's just my own interpretation of the contract), David's or any rental agency does not necessarily protect you. However, if you deal with any reputable rental agency and if the renter leaves behind a trail of problems for the owners, and the rental agency does not at least help rectify the situation, I just don't see how that rental agency can stay in business for long. I have only had 2 rentals through David's and they were both trouble-free. If I were to run into a problem and David's decides to hang me out to dry, you would bet it will be on Disboard & any media channels I can think of so that other people would be aware of such incident. Honestly, if I had been able to find even one such incident about David's, I certainly wouldn't have used it.

At the end, it really boils down to a personal decision as to the additional $2-3/points cost is worth this "potential" benefit.

LAX

 

[Cyberc1978]

Hi

If the seller is using PayPal to collect the money and does in fact receive them and there on transfers the money to his own bank account I don't see how PayPal could force you to return the money if the cc is later declined?

 

[robinb]

Hi

If the seller is using PayPal to collect the money and does in fact receive them and there on transfers the money to his own bank account I don't see how PayPal could force you to return the money if the cc is later declined?

I believe that PayPal will remove the money from the sellers bank account if the credit card is subsequently declined or the charge challenged.

 

[Dean Marino]

..... and this is one of the reasons we choose to just NOT rent anything...... Equipment, land, or points . Everyone else? BEST of luck to you..... .

 

[Dean]

..... and this is one of the reasons we choose to just NOT rent anything...... Equipment, land, or points . Everyone else? BEST of luck to you..... .

While there is risk, this isn't really about rental risk as much as the method of payment. It's one of the reasons I prefer not to use PayPal and that I insist the other party pay any fees if we do. In many ways there's likely less risk from a loss standpoint in renting than in personal usage.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I believe that PayPal will remove the money from the sellers bank account if the credit card is subsequently declined or the charge challenged.

I don't know which options PayPal have in the US but here in Denmark where I live, PayPal can't withdraw any funds from your bank account. They could charge your credit card, but one could just file for a chargeback with the cc company.

 

[Sammie]

Considering the PayPal does not allow payment for timeshare rentals, they are not going to assist in any dispute. Paypal will only protect you in the purchase of a tangible item.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Considering the PayPal does not allow payment for timeshare rentals, they are not going to assist in any dispute. Paypal will only protect you in the purchase of a tangible item.

The problem in question was that the credit card was declined after the payment had been processed. So this would impact anyone who receives money from any potential buyer.

Regards

 

[stazmatic]

After dealing with my credit cards being shut off randomly all weekend, it may not have been fraud at all.
I have been using my Chase cards to shop online and the orders are sometimes going through and sometimes not. The times they have gone through I later got calls from the store saying my credit card was declined for fraud. Chase is declining my purchases through their fraud protection, even after repeated calls to them unfreezing my account because I am trying to shop! The busiest shopping weekend of the year and they are declining purchases like $300 at Office Max?!?! I was trying to buy doorbuster items for our business and ended up missing out because my cards were declined repeatedly.

 

[Dean]

I don't know which options PayPal have in the US but here in Denmark where I live, PayPal can't withdraw any funds from your bank account. They could charge your credit card, but one could just file for a chargeback with the cc company.

In this situation I'm doubtful a chargeback would stick since paypal holds the cards and get's to make the determination. I'm sure the CC company would ultimately deny the chargeback if it did happen. If the seller doesn't have a card on file and has already taken out the money, they could just walk away from the account I suspect. Another option is the paypal account itself was hacked and in this case, clearly the seller would lose per paypal's FAQ's. In this case we really don't know enough to make a determination of what actually happened and given the OP has not been back, it's just weird. If, big if, it was a paypal payment with a credit card and the card itself was fraudulent, I suspect paypal will just eat it and the legal card holder and seller will be fine. I think it's more likely the contact was a scam trying to get personal info or $$$ or the report here was simply someone messing around. Hopefully it was accurate but resolved quickly and that's why the OP hasn't been back. Since the administrators can track ISP's, it be interesting to see if this is a member who created a second login.

 

[DebbieB]

After dealing with my credit cards being shut off randomly all weekend, it may not have been fraud at all.
I have been using my Chase cards to shop online and the orders are sometimes going through and sometimes not. The times they have gone through I later got calls from the store saying my credit card was declined for fraud. Chase is declining my purchases through their fraud protection, even after repeated calls to them unfreezing my account because I am trying to shop! The busiest shopping weekend of the year and they are declining purchases like $300 at Office Max?!?! I was trying to buy doorbuster items for our business and ended up missing out because my cards were declined repeatedly.

I ran into this! I've been looking for a new laptop and got an email for one at HH Gregg that was a good deal. I ordered online and did ship to store, charge to my Southwest Chase Visa. It was declined! I thought I typed the number wrong, so I tried again. Declined. Then I got a text from Chase Fraud Dept asking if I made the transaction. I replied yes and they said to retry. It went through. We'll see what happens when I pick it up tomorrow.

 

[TinyTGO]

OP's first post. Hard to say if it's even legit.

Perhaps he/she is fishing for a way to defraud someone else out of their points.