Toy story and Star Wars Lands timelines?

[Lee Matthews]

Don't worry about whether you're being an optimist or a pessimistic. Just consider the cold, hard facts ... Disney is being a jerk to WDW and Star Wars fans.

I personally have to disagree. They are building large expansions (Disney Springs/ Avatar/ Toy Story Land ect) at WDW and putting in some serious investment (although moving slowly) and i cant knock them for their commitment to Star Wars, they bought my favourite franchise in which there hasn't been a film in 10 years and now they are going to milk the hell out of it with a movie per year for at least the next 6 years as well as building a land based on Star Wars (again, at a slow pace) If anything i feel like the lucky one

 

[LittleDreamer]

When it comes to DHS I think us guest tend to forget about the unseen part of it. DHS was home to a lot of property wide operations, which was a left over from it's working studio days. All the buildings in the Back Lot tour area, those ones between Indy and the parking lot, the offices behind animation those were all in use. Disney has to relocate those people before it can it start any construction work. Even though the backlot was closed almost a year ago I understand those Backlot buildings are still not empty. Like most I think demo will start in late January and TSL and any possible parking lot changes would be the first to get worked on at that point. Once we see if anything is happening with the parking lots/access roads then we can get a better idea of Star Wars' timeline.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I personally have to disagree. They are building large expansions (Disney Springs/ Avatar/ Toy Story Land ect) at WDW and putting in some serious investment (although moving slowly) and i cant knock them for their commitment to Star Wars, they bought my favourite franchise in which there hasn't been a film in 10 years and now they are going to milk the hell out of it with a movie per year for at least the next 6 years as well as building a land based on Star Wars (again, at a slow pace) If anything i feel like the lucky one

Yeah those are good points. Of course Disney doesn't think they're being a jerk at all about Star Wars. They think they're being very prudent and maybe just a bit cynical.

Incidentally, it took exactly 3 years from the deal with J. K. Rowling was signed until Wizarding World opened. That was a complete land with 1 major new ride, and some fairly tricky working-around the existing coasters and lands.

Assuming that planning for Diagon Alley began in 2010 after WWOHP opened, that took 4 years, with major demolition and reconstruction required plus the building of a railroad through the middle of the backstage areas.

Those are probably your best comparables for how long Star Wars Land "should" take.

I'm skeptical that Disney has to spread out the projects because they have many irons in the fire. With Florida attendance and revenues three times higher than Universal's, they should be re-investing at around three times the rate. Instead, apparently because of Iger's business philosophy, they decided that their dominant market position allowed them to coast for several years ... hence the very noticeable stagnation and deterioration in some areas, the slow rate of adding new attractions, and the emphasis on crowd cramming (FP+ rationing and hub reconstruction) and on nickel-and-diming (hard ticket events with extra luxury options piled on).

That approach depended a lot on whether people noticed and commented negatively on it, and whether this translated into loss of mind share and market share. If Disney's strategy is shifting back again towards significant re-investment then I assume that they saw a little of column 'A' and a little of column 'B' in the last year or so.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I personally have to disagree. They are building large expansions (Disney Springs/ Avatar/ Toy Story Land ect) at WDW and putting in some serious investment (although moving slowly) and i cant knock them for their commitment to Star Wars, they bought my favourite franchise in which there hasn't been a film in 10 years and now they are going to milk the hell out of it with a movie per year for at least the next 6 years as well as building a land based on Star Wars (again, at a slow pace) If anything i feel like the lucky one

That's more of an indictment of Lucas and his mismanagement for cheap profit...rather than credit to Disney...is it not?

 

[eXo]

Yeah those are good points. Of course Disney doesn't think they're being a jerk at all about Star Wars. They think they're being very prudent and maybe just a bit cynical.

Incidentally, it took exactly 3 years from the deal with J. K. Rowling was signed until Wizarding World opened. That was a complete land with 1 major new ride, and some fairly tricky working-around the existing coasters and lands.

Assuming that planning for Diagon Alley began in 2010 after WWOHP opened, that took 4 years, with major demolition and reconstruction required plus the building of a railroad through the middle of the backstage areas.

Those are probably your best comparables for how long Star Wars Land "should" take.

For the record, I used to feel this same way. Oh how I laughed that an entire Potter land was built in the same time Disney built a Rapunzel tower with bathrooms in it and a mine train. And there is some truth to the criticism. But there is also truth to the criticisms of universal itself. While Forbidden Journey is a great ride, they have become overly reliant on giant screens. At some point people want to actually go on a bloody ride, not sit in a moving chair and watch a screen. I got a bit tired of the number of times I had to put 3D glasses on the last time I went.

It really sunk in though after I rode Escape from Gringotts. Apart from the multiple times it broke down, the ride itself was extremely lackluster. And the irony is all the moving screens are the part of the ride that seems to be the most prone to breaking down. We had the screens go down at the start of my first ride, so I got to see what it was like to ride without all the special effects - just the cart moving and turning this way and that. And it was incredibly boring.

What Universal DID was build an incredibly detailed group of gift shops. And then stuff it with merch. They built an amazing queue for a ride, and then just shoved a cart on a track full of screens at the end.

So yes, Diagon Alley took 3-4 years. But that ride does not feel exciting or new or worth all that time. The shops do... but not the ride.

My point here is that Universal and Disney obviously work very differently. Whereas Universal presumably grabbed a contractor and said, "You have X amount of acres and X budget, come back with plans", Disney on the other hand has the revered department of imagineers that are paid to do silly things like spend months attaching a barrel to a golf cart to see whether or not a swinging bucket is a fun dynamic for a ride. I have no idea what the full timeline of the 7DMT was, but I know the first several months were shenanigans such as that.

So between the longer process of 'imagineering' and the fact that Disney is not (presumably) going to run off a build a ride whose main gimmick is a giant screen or 3d movie, it doesn't actually surprise me that it takes them longer.

And honestly, the suggested timeline seems to be that it IS only going to take them 3 to 4 years. They are breaking ground in 2017 and the predicted opening is 2020-2021. Guess what? That's 3-4 years. So really, the only gripe left is to ask why they didn't already start. Considering they have obviously spent the last year etching out the next three star wars movies, getting the first one in the can, and proceeding with the next 2.. well, presumably now they actually have an idea of what to focus on. While many older folks would be quite happy with the entire park being based on the original trilogy, it really makes no sense not to develop the Star Wars without taking into account their own contributions to it.

This may all sound like some super apology on behalf of Disney, but I feel as though I am simply taking a reasonable and rational approach. They announced big things, and I am willing to give them time to do it. Getting pissy because it wasn't done on *my* timeline is pointless. There is a point where a person is no longer being critical, and instead simply being negative. Disney has earned it's fair share of criticism. But when they turn around and announce all this, well.. that deserves credit. I'll save my criticisms for any big delays or the appearance of Jar Jar. Meanwhile, I did just fine for the past 35 years without Star Wars land. I'll last another 4 or 5.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I completley agree with you...

You've crafted a nice apology

 

[cranbiz]

TOTS.

That's when I will get excited. Seen and heard too many things that Disney has announced. I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

TOTS.

That's when I will get excited. Seen and heard too many things that Disney has announced. I'm cautiously optimistic.

Amen, Reverend

 

[circus4u]

Listen, homie,

The Star Wars Thing is a hot button for me... So I don't expect you to be onboard this time.

They've announced nothing of substance. It was a matte painting and geek shriek...

I'm a Star Wars nut - do I want it this way? No.

But I can't shut the cerebrum down either.

Look at avatar...announcement...long period of nothing...now work...still not much of a clue...

Getting closer, clearer...but really were talking 6 years best case scenario. That's nuts. It's by choice.

Why am I going irrational here? I guess it's the 7 (soon to be 8) year old I play games with everyday. He was 4 when they bought Lucas...free and clear...no strings attached.

He'll be probably 13-14 when this thing ever gets a magicband swipe.

They're making a movie - we're psyched. But the suggestion that somehow that prohibits steps in the parks is a flaming pile...no joke.

That is disheartening. It just is. Like losing the superbowl or the cup finals. The journey might be fun - but the sting never goes away.

Thanks, Disney...hope that stock price rebounds.



I know I'm a pain... But I don't think we can ignore the lack of committment, lack of schedule, and the recent history. Have they earned that? Honest question.

Well I'll certainly agree that the time it takes for things Disney does is not good, no argument there. Even before this was announced it was expected not until 2020-21. I'll be out of college probably by the time Star Wars opens.

Well, at least the both of you will be around to see it. At my age ..............

 

[LittleDreamer]

My point here is that Universal and Disney obviously work very differently. Whereas Universal presumably grabbed a contractor and said, "You have X amount of acres and X budget, come back with plans", Disney on the other hand has the revered department of imagineers that are paid to do silly things like spend months attaching a barrel to a golf cart to see whether or not a swinging bucket is a fun dynamic for a ride. I have no idea what the full timeline of the 7DMT was, but I know the first several months were shenanigans such as that.

I got to defend Universal here. Universal has it's own creative department, called Universal Creative. Until Comcast showed up they never really had the budget that Disney had yet were able to still make wonderful rides such as Spiderman. Additionally the Disney and Universal team do not work so differently, mostly due to the fact that Universal Creative was originally made up of Disney Imagineers. They attached chairs to the bed of a truck and drove around on the highway to try and figure out the best speaker arrangement for Rip Ride Rockit. As for their inclination towards using projects in their rides the reason for that is two fold. First is it's the easy way to create a fuller of the IP that they are working with. Secondly, is the matter of space. Universal is tight, they don't have much room to work with. Using simulators and flat screens just saves space. Think of this boards arguments about the placement of Star Wars Land. DHS has plenty of open space around to work with, Universal would have close something. The situations under which the two teams work is not equal, each does what is best for their parks.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I see the duster playbook is being brought out...

When criticism of Disney's timelines are brought up - and it's 100% because of corporate accounting - not because "good things take time" - call the quality of the competitors bad.

Universals impressive - if not perfect - efforts over the last 10 years to vastly increase/revitalize what had been lagging and neglected parks by the previous owners...is roundly urinated on as being "not up to the standard of imagineering"

What's really so awesome about "new fantasyland"? The two most impressive elements from an aesthetic standpoint are the corner by Gastons and...I'm not even kidding - the rapunzel tower/bathroom area. I'm being 100% serious.

And if you think that it took 3 years of " development" to start groundbreaking the avatar expansion...you honestly need your head examined. It's Florida...alot of the first year is stability/water diversion work... As will likely be the case in studios and was at downtown.

They could have started that the next day...and been more than ready to take avatar vertical whenever development was done. It could have been open by 2015 with no problems.
Check your calendar.

Stop crediting a media conglomerate that specializing in price increase for stuff that they are NOT doing.

Jeez...hard to be fair when Goliath gets more defenders than David.

 

[eXo]

I think you read whatever argument you wanted into what I said. At no point did I defend imagineering. I called their actions shenanigans. Hell, it wasn't so long ago I was blaming imagineering for a lot of the problems with the magic band rollout, and yet now you have painted me as their champion.

Universal most certainly has been impressive over the past 10 years. They have been extremely aggressive in their new ride rollouts, and watching something like Kong take shape so quickly has been extremely impressive. Last October the show building was a skeleton. Now, less than a year later there is a fortress sitting in it's place. I never suggested once that their standard isn't up to imagineering standards. I simply said Escape from Gringotts relies on moving screens to create the whole ride. Much the same way that Disney's recent offerings rely on dated animatronics. I am not impressed by EITHER companies most recent outings. But, Universal struck gold with Forbidden Journey. I'd have to go back a lot farther to find the last ride that Disney built that was that impressive.

Rather than defend myself based on a point of view that you decided to read into my post, I will simply restate my original point. And that is quite simple. People are complaining that it only took Universal 3-4 years to build Diagon Alley, so it is ridiculous how long it is taking Disney to Build Star Wars land. And the irony here is that it is taking them the *exact* same amount of time, 3-4 years. So, as I said, really the only criticism that stands is why they didn't start sooner. That is 100% valid IF you expect them to build it based on the Star Wars we already know, but not if you expect them to incorporate the Star Wars they are in the midst of creating.

The difference between you and I is I have the ability to criticize something and still see the good in it. I can criticize Universal's latest ride while still loving the place. I can appreciate Disney for what it is, knowing it has it's flaws, but also knowing they are working to address them to some degree. In the time i have been on these boards, I've never seen a single positive post about Disney (in any facet of the park) from you.

So it doesn't matter at the end of the day. lockedoutlogic has lockedout any rational discussion of Disney. Logic is rational. Logic is unbiased. I see zero logic in your posts. Just hate and negativity. Several months ago it was Disney never expands, Disney never invests money, Disney just sits on it's current parks and will keep squeezing money out of you and you are going to like it. Totally ignoring the improvements they HAVE been making, they turn around and announce a 3 billion dollar expansion with 2 new lands, and several refurbs/upgrades and now it switches gears towards totally new criticism. There is no discussion to be had with you. You have it all figured out in your head, you dislike all of it, you would have done it completely differently, Disney is only out to make money (big surprise there... publicly traded company wants to <gasp> make money and are using kids dreams to do it, story at 11), and you have all the answers.

Now, I'll go back to being an objective sheep who alternates between attending Universal and Disney, appreciating both for what they are, enjoying both with my family, and looking forward to the new things coming. Some aspects of it will be frustrating and other aspects will make the trip worth it's while. But I can tell you one thing, it sure isn't as black and white as you paint it to be. Anyone who had never been to Disney before that read only your posts would think you were talking about banksy's Dismaland. The only person who needs their head examined is you. You appear to be clinically depressed.

 

[PACVII]

So they announced that two attractions are going into star wars land. One bring the miliemum falcon ride whats the other?

 

[rteetz]

So they announced that two attractions are going into star wars land. One bring the miliemum falcon ride whats the other?

A ride that puts you in the middle of a battle.

 

[Eoghann]

A ride that puts you in the middle of a battle.

Though what that exactly means, (simulator, coaster, dark ride... spinner!) they were very careful not to say. Personally I'm hoping for some sort of dark ride. DHS doesn't have many of those.

 

[nkosiek]

So I'm sitting here watching Discovery Family and a show entitled, "Disney Cruise Line: Reimagined" about the complete redesign and dry-dock overhaul of the Disney Magic cruise ship. At one point they brag about having spent 2 years getting all the designs, kinks, paint, yadda yadda yadda before it came in. Then they did it all in 2 months. Stripped all the pain, redesigned the bathrooms in most of the staterooms, and a bunch of other things. Hey, you should brag about that...but then to try to tell us they don't have a timeline for the DHS expansions is RIDICULOUS. As lockedout has stated, they've had StarWars for a few years now. How was the first thing not done was a green light for a land for the movie. It should all be designed, 3d modeled, ang whatnot so that shovels went in ground during D23. In fact, Iger should've been at DHS and done a video in where he apologized for not being there but then scan out to show him with a shovel breaking ground. And 14 acres for 2 rides???? Seriously? He's right, they are playing with us. I feel bad for him and his kid for the wait. I'm lucky, just had my first last year so he'll be 7 by the time it's done, perfect for him, but not so much for his 2 six year old cousins who will be 11 and won't necessarily want to go to Disney anymore.

 

[rteetz]

So I'm sitting here watching Discovery Family and a show entitled, "Disney Cruise Line: Reimagined" about the complete redesign and dry-dock overhaul of the Disney Magic cruise ship. At one point they brag about having spent 2 years getting all the designs, kinks, paint, yadda yadda yadda before it came in. Then they did it all in 2 months. Stripped all the pain, redesigned the bathrooms in most of the staterooms, and a bunch of other things. Hey, you should brag about that...but then to try to tell us they don't have a timeline for the DHS expansions is RIDICULOUS. As lockedout has stated, they've had StarWars for a few years now. How was the first thing not done was a green light for a land for the movie. It should all be designed, 3d modeled, ang whatnot so that shovels went in ground during D23. In fact, Iger should've been at DHS and done a video in where he apologized for not being there but then scan out to show him with a shovel breaking ground. And 14 acres for 2 rides???? Seriously? He's right, they are playing with us. I feel bad for him and his kid for the wait. I'm lucky, just had my first last year so he'll be 7 by the time it's done, perfect for him, but not so much for his 2 six year old cousins who will be 11 and won't necessarily want to go to Disney anymore.

While in some yes it is similar but the ship was dry docked and closed for those months. No people on it other than construction crews. DHS isn't going to be shut down for construction. A lot of the construction in the parks happens at night time after the parks close why do you think the hub construction has taken so long.

However with that said yes it shouldn't take Disney until 2020 for Star Wars but it likely will unfortunately. Now for toy story it shouldn't take that long it's expected 2017/18 opening. Another problem with Star Wars land is the execs like Iger wanted the new movies within the land, the first new movie doesn't come out until December of this year. Disney is also going to watch incredibly close to how this movie performs at the box office. They are expecting huge numbers but if they don't get those huge numbers that could be a bad thing for us.

The Star Wars project was also shot down once already and they had to go back to the drawing board.

Star Wars land doesn't have a lot of details out right now either hence why rumors are they are still working on a few aspects.

 

[nkosiek]

You're normally not an apologist, but come onnnnnn. Perhaps you didn't get the whole, "having spent 2 years getting all the designs, kinks, paint, yadda yadda yadda before it came in". That's where the problems lie. They pulled another Avatar on people but because it's Star Wars, it's getting a pass. If they've already done something and it sucked, don't announce until it's all ready.

I know what dry-dock is and how that enabled them to work around the clock BUT, an this is the crucial part, it's the fact that once it was in dry-dock that they were able to start work immediately. Everyone's been so impressed by the Avatar model they had at D23, but think about this, that should've been out at the last one if you go by how they did things for the Magic.

As for incorporating the new movies...fine, that's not hard to do. If the Millenium Falcon ride has always been an idea they should have firm details on that and then the other ride should've been based on the new movies.

 

[rteetz]

You're normally not an apologist, but come onnnnnn. Perhaps you didn't get the whole, "having spent 2 years getting all the designs, kinks, paint, yadda yadda yadda before it came in". That's where the problems lie. They pulled another Avatar on people but because it's Star Wars, it's getting a pass. If they've already done something and it sucked, don't announce until it's all ready.

I know what dry-dock is and how that enabled them to work around the clock BUT, an this is the crucial part, it's the fact that once it was in dry-dock that they were able to start work immediately. Everyone's been so impressed by the Avatar model they had at D23, but think about this, that should've been out at the last one if you go by how they did things for the Magic.

As for incorporating the new movies...fine, that's not hard to do. If the Millenium Falcon ride has always been an idea they should have firm details on that and then the other ride should've been based on the new movies.

While yes I'm not normally on Disney's side for this I have to be honest and go by the facts. Avatar was announced when the deal was made in 2011. They had absolutely nothing ready for that land at that point hence why it's opening in 2017. 6 years after announced. Avatar broke ground in January of 2014.

Usually you will release details of upcoming attraction at the expo hence why we got the avatar model and Shanghai exhibits. Both are goring to be open before the next expo.

If you noticed the announcements of Star Wars and toy story and compare the two you'll notice Star Wars was very vague in details where as toy story wasn't so much. That's because toy story will be open before Star Wars and will open in the next few years. Star Wars is said to break ground in 2017 with a 2020 opening that's three years. While yes it shouldn't take them until then to break ground but it is unfortunately.

I also think part of this is the fact that there is an exact copy of this in Disneyland. Disney seems to want these two carbon copies to be built simultaneously and open at the same time. Something they have never really done before.

There is also still the announced area that is supposed to happen and open 2021ish.

From what I've heard Star Wars wasn't even supposed to be announced at D23 but shoehorned in because they didn't want a stock drop. The announcement was supposed to include more of a rebranding announcement with toy story being the first aspect.

 

[twebber55]

predictions for timelines
Pandora 2017
Toy Story 2018
Star wars 2019-2020
new land in back of DHS 2021