Tourism and how can Congress or parliaments around the world fix this? Mods if this belongs in the Controversial board, feel free to move it there.

[Buzz Rules]

Tourism and how can Congress or parliaments around the world fix this? Mods if this belongs in the Controversial board, feel free to move it there.
Interesting article:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/tourism-why-it-went-wrong/

 

[Praying Colonel]

I retired this year. I see these stories and feel like the door is being slammed in our faces just as DW and I finally have the time to travel extensively.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

This has been on my mind a lot lately, as we just vacationed in California where we were in some very overcrowded areas like Yosemite and Lake Tahoe. Many areas were so crowded if you didn't get there early in the day you would be out of luck. We went to one place at Lake Tahoe that at 8:30am they were already in process of shutting down the entrance to the parking lot and cutting off access for the day ... and the parking lot held literally hundreds and hundreds of spots. We were just barely there in time. In Yosemite we found trash strewn in an area of rocks you could climb in near Yosemite Falls. I guess people want to visit the beautiful national parks, but then don't care about them enough to throw their trash away.

We weren't under evacuation notice, but we did make some major changes on the fly and spent several extra hours driving through very heavy smoke one day in order to be out of a wildfire area. Anytime I felt disappointment about what we missed out on seeing, I thought about all the people whose homes and livelihood were in the path of that fire. And I thought about how a jam of tourists can make evacuations and situations like that more of a headache for locals.

I've done a fair amount of traveling, and have some extreme wanderlust, but it's getting to the point where it's really not so enjoyable when everything is so packed you don't even know if you'll be able to park somewhere to see something. We had to skip Multnomah Falls because it was jam packed. They even had employees waving people on preventing them from even turning into parking lots. And really, I can hardly blame locals for being upset when their whole town is overrun by tourists, causing costs to rise, and making their daily life a headache to get around the crowds.

Anyway, I still really want to keep traveling, but I'm thinking I need to get out of the mindset of having to see all the iconic things, and focus more on a slower, less stressful, less crowded experience. I just don't know exactly what that means to me. It might mean staying closer to home, staying in a single place longer, renting a house rather than hotels and eating out everywhere. But really, if I go to Spain, am I just going to find some tiny random mountain village and hang out there for a week, and not even try going to see Sagrada Familia in Barcelona? I mean ... maybe? It actually doesn't sound that bad now that I've typed it out.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

I retired this year. I see these stories and feel like the door is being slammed in our faces just as DW and I finally have the time to travel extensively.

I think you're actually in a good position since you are retired and can travel outside the extremely busy summer season. I think most of the issues are really around the June - August timeframe when families with kids are trying to fit stuff in. I think most of Europe would be absolutely fantastic in September-October. April-May would also be great some of the southern European areas like Greece, Portugal, Spain. We did Iceland back when our kids were in year round school in very late August - early September, and it was great. My parents have been to Canadian Rockies both in very early June and in late September, and had great experiences. I will feel much better about my travel when I can do it off season.

 

[Praying Colonel]

I think you're actually in a good position since you are retired and can travel outside the extremely busy summer season. I think most of the issues are really around the June - August timeframe when families with kids are trying to fit stuff in. I think most of Europe would be absolutely fantastic in September-October. April-May would also be great some of the southern European areas like Greece, Portugal, Spain. We did Iceland back when our kids were in year round school in very late August - early September, and it was great. My parents have been to Canadian Rockies both in very early June and in late September, and had great experiences. I will feel much better about my travel when I can do it off season.

Great thoughts, and we're going to test them this fall. DW and I are walking the Camino Frances in September-October, then spending a week in Barcelona in late October. I'm hoping shoulder season will work out well.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

Great thoughts, and we're going to test them this fall. DW and I are walking the Camino Frances in September-October, then spending a week in Barcelona in late October. I'm hoping shoulder season will work out well.

That sounds amazing. I think you will have a fantastic time, and none of the crowded summer travel issues. Happy travels!

 

[tony67]

I retired this year. I see these stories and feel like the door is being slammed in our faces just as DW and I finally have the time to travel extensively.

Yeah - going off season is better - you wont be dealing with the problems as much if at all.

I did not read the article, but I can talk from my experience and what folks have told me.

Much of the frustration is around the cruise ships that come in for the day, and then leave.
I spent a week in Dubrovnik for example, in August, and the frustration was with the cruise folks.
They don't eat in the local places since they have food on the ship - they travel in large groups and are just an annoyance.
This can be said for almost any tour group anywhere in the world, but with all the ships coming into Dubrovnik its a nightmare.

Come 5 or 6 PM and they are gone and everything is settled down, restaurants are glad to have you, in most places.

Also - when you are visiting a city, don't get a coffee at Starbucks when you are in Rome for example.
BTW -if you are in the North end in Boston - don't get your coffee at Starbucks- (or Mikes for that matter - we laugh at all the tourists with there boxes from Mike's because its in the guide book) - there are plenty of little places that are family owned etc... why go to Starbucks.

The other big issue is AirBnb, and that is one reason I stick to hotels.
For some folks its a godsend, they rent their apartment and get out of the city and make a ton of money.
For folks needing to live in the city its impossible to get an apartment because they are all AirtBnbs.

One thing that frustrates me, some of the most annoying tourists in Ireland are folks from some of the countries that complain the most about tourists. There are some places I want to visit, but I refuse to because of the way they have treated tourists recently.
When tourism is down and there are no jobs in that industry they will regret it.

There needs to be a balance, but its hard.

 

[tvguy]

To the question "how can Congress or Parliaments around the world fix this?" Well, I would counter that that many of the restrictions have come FROM Government, usually in response to the demands of their constituents. Key West citizens voted to restrict tour ships, and outside Government agencies overruled them. THAT is what should end, if a region doesn't want the tourists, and they are willing to accept the economic losses, who am I to argue with them?. Same with Bar Harbor.
And the situation in Amsterdam has been brewing for a couple years. Police at first DID step in to try and control protests, but the Courts stepped in and ruled that the right of people to protest takes priority over the right of tourists to visit under their laws.

​

 

[tvguy]

This has been on my mind a lot lately, as we just vacationed in California where we were in some very overcrowded areas like Yosemite and Lake Tahoe. Many areas were so crowded if you didn't get there early in the day you would be out of luck. We went to one place at Lake Tahoe that at 8:30am they were already in process of shutting down the entrance to the parking lot and cutting off access for the day ... and the parking lot held literally hundreds and hundreds of spots. We were just barely there in time. In Yosemite we found trash strewn in an area of rocks you could climb in near Yosemite Falls. I guess people want to visit the beautiful national parks, but then don't care about them enough to throw their trash away.

We weren't under evacuation notice, but we did make some major changes on the fly and spent several extra hours driving through very heavy smoke one day in order to be out of a wildfire area. Anytime I felt disappointment about what we missed out on seeing, I thought about all the people whose homes and livelihood were in the path of that fire. And I thought about how a jam of tourists can make evacuations and situations like that more of a headache for locals.

I've done a fair amount of traveling, and have some extreme wanderlust, but it's getting to the point where it's really not so enjoyable when everything is so packed you don't even know if you'll be able to park somewhere to see something. We had to skip Multnomah Falls because it was jam packed. They even had employees waving people on preventing them from even turning into parking lots. And really, I can hardly blame locals for being upset when their whole town is overrun by tourists, causing costs to rise, and making their daily life a headache to get around the crowds.

Anyway, I still really want to keep traveling, but I'm thinking I need to get out of the mindset of having to see all the iconic things, and focus more on a slower, less stressful, less crowded experience. I just don't know exactly what that means to me. It might mean staying closer to home, staying in a single place longer, renting a house rather than hotels and eating out everywhere. But really, if I go to Spain, am I just going to find some tiny random mountain village and hang out there for a week, and not even try going to see Sagrada Familia in Barcelona? I mean ... maybe? It actually doesn't sound that bad now that I've typed it out.

I live 90 minutes from Lake Tahoe and about 3 hours from Yosemite. Yes, those areas can be overrun with tourists.
A friend took her first job at a radio station at Lake Tahoe in 1978 and even back then she said trying to live and work in a resort area really sucked. She couldn't afford to live in Tahoe, so commuted 20 miles from Truckee. And even back then, on holidays and weekends it was grid lock at Tahoe. And her job wasn't really involved in tourism, her job was providing a service to locals.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I spent a week in Dubrovnik for example, in August, and the frustration was with the cruise folks.
They don't eat in the local places since they have food on the ship - they travel in large groups and are just an annoyance.
This can be said for almost any tour group anywhere in the world, but with all the ships coming into Dubrovnik its a nightmare.

While the cruise company we've gone with does go to Dubrovnik depending on the cruise the location we went to and one they go to a lot is Vodice which won't have nearly as much to go to for a tourist, nearby you'd be more likely to go to with Sibenik which there was an excursion we could have chosen to do to go there but we opted to just chill in Vodice. But the max passenger count of the ship we're on was 600 so not huge. The groups are also quite small, maybe 15-20-ish. I think one of our excursions had 30-35 people split into 2 coach buses and only going to the same destination at some point in the day as they diverged earlier on.

Croatia is a hot destination not just for traditional cruises though, one of our DISer friends is taking a land/sea trip there next week IIRC where yes they will be arriving to some of the places by boat but it's more like a sail boat.

And then for Croatia in general they are a high tourist destination because they themselves wanted to be. They quickly rebounded from war decades ago and made themselves be considered a safer destination to go to. I see Croatia a lot on "must see underrated destination" lists.

I do agree with you about eating at local places but that is also cruise company and excursion dependent. We ate at a place in Greece (I forget the city we were in as there were multiple we stopped in in Greece) and then Vodice we just had some drinks. And basing off the talk from the passengers many took the opportunity to have some food while in ports even though the cruise ship often picks up things locally to serve on the ship (and of course all the food being included). Multiple of our excursions we ate at local places as it was part of the excursion. One place in Greece it was only supposed to be cookies and coffee but my goodness the restaurant served us an entire meal to the point where we had to politely decline further servings. I think our group was close to 20 people split between two tables. We had a magnificent view while eating of ancient Messene after exploring the ruins.

Most of the angst with cruises do lie in these mega ships who dump several thousands all at once and heavens to betsy if there's more than one of those. Unfortunately the mega ships are the ones being built at the moment so I don't anticipate there being much ebbing there.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

renting a house rather than hotels

TBH though that's actually one of the BIGGEST issues. It's the rental market that is driving a lot of problems with the rage. You'd actually have less of an impact if you stayed in a hotel.

Single family homes are being purchased and turned into short-term rentals at high amounts and it is causing more governments to enact rules, require permits, trying to make new buildings out of the city center to make it less desirable, etc That's why you're seeing Barcelona residents be so mad (in part but the government is restricting these now), same with Venice where home residents leave it because it's took expensive, same with Hawaii. Condos, townhouses and more. The locals cannot afford the homes because of the high demand for short-term usages. It's globally an issue but if you're thinking domestically it's a big problem too especially when you're looking at the more hidden destinations.

So my suggestion if you're looking to be less of the problem don't rent a house, go for the hotel.

 

[barkley]

I live 90 minutes from Lake Tahoe and about 3 hours from Yosemite. Yes, those areas can be overrun with tourists.
A friend took her first job at a radio station at Lake Tahoe in 1978 and even back then she said trying to live and work in a resort area really sucked. She couldn't afford to live in Tahoe, so commuted 20 miles from Truckee. And even back then, on holidays and weekends it was grid lock at Tahoe. And her job wasn't really involved in tourism, her job was providing a service to locals.

i grew up in napa ca. horrible traffic year round but esp. in the fall months. what should be a 15 minute drive would take an hour due to tourist traffic. the majority of the people who work the tourism industry then and now live elsewhere due to the cost of living. the bulk of the people i grew up with or attended high school with that live there to this day only do so by virtue of having purchased home 40 or more years ago OR (more commonly) by inheriting their parent's.


anyone read about the new restrictions alaska is putting on tourism? caps on the number of cruiseline tourists per day AND a vote in october to entirely ban ships with over 250 passengers from juneau on saturdays and july 4th. seems the locals would like access to their own streets, businesses and local events (can't say i blame them).

 

[tvguy]

i grew up in napa ca. horrible traffic year round but esp. in the fall months. what should be a 15 minute drive would take an hour due to tourist traffic. the majority of the people who work the tourism industry then and now live elsewhere due to the cost of living. the bulk of the people i grew up with or attended high school with that live there to this day only do so by virtue of having purchased home 40 or more years ago OR (more commonly) by inheriting their parent's.


anyone read about the new restrictions alaska is putting on tourism? caps on the number of cruiseline tourists per day AND a vote in october to entirely ban ships with over 250 passengers from juneau on saturdays and july 4th. seems the locals would like access to their own streets, businesses and local events (can't say i blame them).

Yes, I have experienced Napa first hand. We like to wine taste, but we prefer going to Lodi. No traffic, more wineries, often you are being served by the wine maker. And a lot of Napa wine is made with grapes grown in Lodi.

 

[tony67]

The other big problem, and I can agree with the locals on this one, is the drinking holidays.
Places like Mallorca, southern Portugal and even weekends in Prague are just awful.

For example, from Ireland, it can be far less expensive to go to Prague for a weekend than Dublin. Its also a lot safer.
Beer is about 1/4 to 1/3rd the price. Hotels can be had for about 1/2 the price if not less.

So many people fly in for the weekend on very cheap Ryan Air flights (not as cheap as they used to be) and drink like fools. Litter, get sick, relive themselves. And they make a lot of noise.

Walking around in some of the beach cities early in the morning the streets are a mess. Some places do an amazing job cleaning up the mess, others not so much. Lisbon had crews out every morning cleaning up the mess, even Sunday.

Some of these places pass laws to not allow drinking on the beach, sale of alcohol in shops after 9PM etc.. but they are ignored and not enforced, it brings in too much money in taxes I guess. These leaves to locals who may have lived there for many years trapped.

I really don't enjoy it either and avoid weekends for the most part.

And then for Croatia in general they are a high tourist destination because they themselves wanted to be

Very true - especially since the Game of Thrones. When I was there, specifically for the history, I had no idea about the show, everything was about game of thrones, I was the odd one as I could care less. So we are doing a historical tour of the city with one of the walking tours and it was all about GOT locations. almost no history at all. The guide had been an extra on the show.

The only interesting this was the group of Australians that decided to strip off and walk down the royal way reenacting a scene from the show. Yeah they got arrested.

 

[tony67]

So my suggestion if you're looking to be less of the problem don't rent a house, go for the hotel.

Worth repeating...it is a very big issue in many European cities

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

renting a house rather than hotels and eating out everywhere.

So my suggestion if you're looking to be less of the problem don't rent a house, go for the hotel.

Worth repeating...it is a very big issue in many European cities

Yeah, I guess not my brightest statement, the housing issue is one of the main concerns with pushing up costs and driving locals out of town. I suppose I was thinking about it from being able to stay put a little longer in a single place, not contributing to traffic jams, not contributing to packed restaurants, and doing things like walking countryside trails right out the backdoor rather than needing to see the coliseum (or whatever). But that's possible from a hotel too. The times we have been to Europe, I always liked the idea of a house, but then I always chose hotel anyway ... it's nice to not have to think about where breakfast is going to come from (and OMG the breakfasts at hotels in Europe have always been amazing!), and have someone available at the front desk to make suggestions or recommendations in an unfamiliar area.