TouringPlans sunsetting room requests

[walt34]

The room reservation system and the room allocation rights do actually still belong to them, as the contracts state. As do a small amount 2%+ of the resort/points

Doesn't matter. In assigning rooms, Disney is acting as an agent for the association and is getting paid for it. This does not give them permission for self-dealing.

 

[Tatebeck]

Doesn't matter. In assigning rooms, Disney is acting as an agent for the association and is getting paid for it. This does not give them permission for self-dealing.

Does matter IMO. It would only be self dealing if they were doing it for themselves, and not for the membership. Which is why even though it may make them money, they may be able to argue that the membership wanted a way to get access to preferential room assignment, and only fees of a certain amount and above actually allowed the system to work. Then it would be allowed

 

[Tatebeck]

Like I said 100% of the membership will not agree on anything, which is why DVC gave themselves the rights to decide for us. And unless it is clear and obvious that it is detrimental for the membership, a lot of stuff they could choose to do could be allowed, as long as they gave sound enough reasoning for it.

I'll put you down for "against" it for the data

 

[walt34]

Like I said 100% of the membership will not agree on anything, which is why DVC gave themselves the rights to decide for us. And unless it is clear and obvious that it is detrimental for the membership, a lot of stuff they could choose to do could be allowed, as long as they gave sound enough reasoning for it.

I'll put you down for "against" it for the data

Disney making extra profit by reducing the chances of regular DVC members (who don't pay an extra fee) to get access to the more preferable rooms in each category is a pretty clear cut example.

If you feel that there is no fiduciary duty and Disney can do whatever they want in room assignment because DVCM management employed them to do so, feel free to believe that. It doesn't make it correct.

 

[Sandisw]

What would be the difference? They give access to rooms for people who pay extra. Regular owners who don't pay extra only get what's left. Do you think Disney could implement a top-floor fee? Only owners who pay Disney extra, get access to the top floor of DVC buildings (the rest only get it if everything else is fully booked? I hope not.

As long as Disney is assigning their own hotel rooms to guests, no problem. Their property, their rules. They cannot give preferred access to DVC rooms just because they are paying cash. This assignment has to be done by the same rules as all other DVC room assignments. Everything else would be self-dealing.

Self-dealing is prohibited by law, so there would be other remedies as well.

Some people are happy with everything Disney does. Others aren't.

I simply disagree that there is anything in the contract or the way the timeshare works that prohibits Disney to offer things to guests who book DVC rooms through them.

Just like cash guests don’t pay extra for daily housekeeping for DVC villas, yet DVC owners have to if they want it.

Or, how we had to pay via dues for Disney Magical Express whether we wanted to or not.


Again, if DIsney decided to add a program that allows guests to pay a fee to choose a specific room, which we can’t do no, they im not sure how that can be stopped.

Once rooms are moved to cash, and in control of the hotels division, they fall under cash stays.

There is even a clause in the contract that says we can be charged extra fees by TWDC. So, that certainly reads to me that we have agreed to additonal charges which might go directly into Disneys pockets.

To be fair though, and I mentioned earlier, there is some precedent on if any of these fees would go back to the association and that was the parking fee that Disney collected. Some came back.

Of course, as owners we are entitled to access any onsite amenity or benefit that is offered.

So, if Disney were to create a program that allows onsite guests at their resorts to go on and select a specific room, even if it’s a paid program, DVC owners have to be given that choice too.

Requests are completely different because they are not only not guaranteed, Disney doesn’t even have to look at them if they don’t want to.

But allowing a guest to pay to choose the exact room they want?

I just don’t see anything that prevents Disney from doing that and offering it to everyone for a fee.

What I don’t think they are allowed to do is exclude DVC owners who booked on points to participate in the program.

 

[Tatebeck]

Disney making extra profit by reducing the chances of regular DVC members (who don't pay an extra fee) to get access to the more preferable rooms in each category is a pretty clear cut example.

If you feel that there is no fiduciary duty and Disney can do whatever they want in room assignment because DVCM management employed them to do so, feel free to believe that. It doesn't make it correct.

And Disney giving members an 100% optional pathway towards increasing their chances to get their more preferred rooms for a fair fee sounds much better. It just depends which side you are on

Those for it will say it sounds great, those against will say it sounds unfair

 

[Sykes]

Now there might a narrow corridor, if they can argue credibly that the fee just covers the costs they have in considering/handling the room request (but I assume the fee would have to be relatively low for this argument) or the fee for the room preference of DVD rooms (not for Disney hotel rooms) goes to the association (after covering costs). I still think this would be on very thin ice and Disney won't do it.

I think we're in agreement here to some degree (although I do get your skepticism even with this path). I don't think that Disney could do it solely for their own benefit, but I think as long as they are doing it for the benefit of the membership as a whole it would be allowable. The R&R contains no sub-category access guarantee. §III.11 explicitly makes preferences non-guaranteed and front-desk-discretionary. §721.15(4) in the Florida statutes permits differential pricing for differential benefits. A fee that flows to the Association and reduces dues is pretty hard to attack because every Member benefits, just asymmetrically--paying Members get better rooms, non-paying Members get lower dues, and there isn't anything in the governing docs or Florida law that explicitly prohibits such an activity. And the management company benefits to since they get a percentage of every dollar that is collected on behalf of the association. I also am highly skeptical that they'll do it though, because I feel like the implementation effort would exceed the benefit to both Disney and the Association.

 

[walt34]

I simply disagree that there is anything in the contract or the way the timeshare works that prohibits Disney to offer things to guests who book DVC rooms through them.

Just like cash guests don’t pay extra for daily housekeeping for DVC villas, yet DVC owners have to if they want it.

Or, how we had to pay via dues for Disney Magical Express whether we wanted to or not.


Again, if DIsney decided to add a program that allows guests to pay a fee to choose a specific room, which they can’t do now…which goes being a request,…they are allowed to do that and once rooms are moved to cash, they can play by different rules.

There is even a clause in the contract that says we can be charged extra fees and TWDC is one of them.

And, of course, as owners we are entitled to access any onsite amenity or benefit that is offered.

So, if Disney were to create a program that allows onsite guests at their resorts to go on and select a specific room, even if it’s a paid program, DVC owners have to be given that choice too.

Requests are completely different because they are not only not guaranteed, Disney doesn’t even have to look at them if they don’t want to.

But allowing a guest to pay to choose the exact room they want?

I just don’t see anything that prevents Disney from doing that and offering it to everyone for a fee.

They can offer any additional service (balloons in your hotel room?) they want and charge money for it. But taking a fee for room requests means they will interfere, for a fee or other benefits to them, with a process that they are tasked to execute for the association.

They are also, as a consequence, taking away or reducing access to some more preferable rooms from (non-fee-paying) members. If this reduced access is the consequence of some other change where they try to improve membership (some members benefit, others don't) overall this is less of a problem. But if they are making extra money of this "service" and depending on how much, the picture changes significantly.

BTW, I really don't think DVC would be entitled to use every online tool that Disney uses on the hotel side. We are already using a completely different booking system.

ETA: Most of this is for the scenario where Disney gets to keep most of the fee (see later post).

 

[walt34]

I think we're in agreement here to some degree (although I do get your skepticism even with this path). I don't think that Disney could do it solely for their own benefit, but I think as long as they are doing it for the benefit of the membership as a whole it would be allowable. The R&R contains no sub-category access guarantee. §III.11 explicitly makes preferences non-guaranteed and front-desk-discretionary. §721.15(4) in the Florida statutes permits differential pricing for differential benefits. A fee that flows to the Association and reduces dues is pretty hard to attack because every Member benefits, just asymmetrically--paying Members get better rooms, non-paying Members get lower dues, and there isn't anything in the governing docs or Florida law that explicitly prohibits such an activity. And the management company benefits to since they get a percentage of every dollar that is collected on behalf of the association. I also am highly skeptical that they'll do it though, because I feel like the implementation effort would exceed the benefit to both Disney and the Association.

I agree with this for the most part. If the fee flows to the association (minus cost and the management percentage), this is much harder to argue against. Depending on the fee and how it affects accessible inventory, this could still be quite a material change of the core use of the timeshare product.
I agree with your conclusions. I don't think Disney will do this. I believe the corridor in which they'd be able to do it doesn't give the mouse enough incentive.

 

[Sandisw]

They can offer any additional service (balloons in your hotel room?) they want and charge money for it. But taking a fee for room requests means they will interfere, for a fee or other benefits to them, with a process that they are tasked to execute for the association.

They are also, as a consequence, taking away or reducing access to some more preferable rooms from (non-fee-paying) members. If this reduced access is the consequence of some other change where they try to improve membership (some members benefit, others don't) overall this is less of a problem. But if they are making extra money of this "service" and depending on how much, the picture changes significantly.

BTW, I really don't think DVC would be entitled to use every online tool that Disney uses on the hotel side. We are already using a completely different booking system.

ETA: Most of this is for the scenario where Disney gets to keep most of the fee (see later post).

Just to clarify, I am only talking about a paid program where you choose your room…that is not the same as the request.

What I am talking about in terms of the same access is that as owners, we get access to all onsite benefits that are offered.

So, if part of staying on site is choosing your specific room, then the contract says we have to be eligible.

We simply don’t see it the same way,,, we can’t be forced to have to pay extra for a room assignment. We agree there.

But, if Disney creates a program where the want to offer guests a chance to pay to pick a room, as I said, I see nothing that gives DVC the right to override that decision.

The good news is that I don’t see Disney doing this for cash guests and I personally wish they didn’t even take requests at all.

I think the room assignment should be given when one arrived to first available and guests can’t ask for a different room unless there is a medical.

 

[walt34]

So, if part of staying on site is choosing your specific room, then the contract says we have to be eligible.

Do you mean if Disney offers it for hotel rooms, we have to get it too for DVC rooms? But many things are already different (checkin time, room cleaning,..)
Or do you mean if Disney offers this for cash-paid DVC rooms?

We simply don’t see it the same way,,, we can’t be forced to have to pay extra for a room assignment. We agree there.

But, if Disney creates a program where the want to offer guests a chance to pay to pick a room, as I said, I see nothing that gives DVC the right to override that decision.

As I see it, Disney can't (and won't) offer this "feature" for DVC rooms, as they have no (official) influence over room assignment. So if you book a GF hotel room through Disney, they might give you the chance to pick your room. If you book a VGF room through Disney, they can't offer this feature (until DVC decides independently to offer this, too), as the Disney-booked room has to be assigned in the same way as every other DVC reservation. Technically I believe that any room selection by guests would be much harder to implement successfully for DVC as the room occupancy is higher. There is less wiggle room.

I think the room assignment should be given when one arrived to first available and guests can’t ask for a different room unless there is a medical.

Apparently you arrive early, while we usually arrive late.
So I'd very much prefer random assignment of rooms (after the who stays how long tetris has been resolved).

 

[PolyRob]

Has anyone here called, chatted, or emailed MS for a room request since 4/20? Has anything changed where guests are directed to only use MDE or is MS still taking detailed requests?