Tour Guide Mike-- not much of a plan!!

[pjtjm]

For each person that doesn't follow TGM's advice that just makes lines even shorter for me. Annie

Okay Annie --- You cracked me up !!

But let's be nice... To the OP I hope you find the right plans for you, don't worry about rocking the boat... And please don't hesitate to ask questions on the AVP forums... Yes it might take more time.. But you never know, you could become addicted like I am... Ooops... maybe you should get out now, this could be you... Hi my name is Jen, and I'm a TGM addict...

For TGM'er that don't know about this stuff go the forums and check out the "Stephens cool stuff" link on the TGM site. Check out Stephens stuff and the consolidated park info that Jen created, also on that page, its everything you need to take with you in the park if you know the TGM methodology.

Hi Pedler!!
Wow!! How sad am I that the notes I gathered from TGM got a mention here and I'm all excited. ?!?!.. Seriously, OP, I'm not kidding... addiction..... lol
Glad you liked the pages, Stephen formatted everything to make it look good. That guy is a whiz...

 

[Pedler]

Hi Pedler!!
Wow!! How sad am I that the notes I gathered from TGM got a mention here and I'm all excited. ?!?!.. Seriously, OP, I'm not kidding... addiction..... lol
Glad you liked the pages, Stephen formatted everything to make it look good. That guy is a whiz...

Did you create those pages? They are outstanding. I printed up 2 copies along with the relevant stuff of Stephens to take with us in the parks. I litterally have it down to three pages per park. Technically its more like 1 full page and two half pages. Thanks a lot for taking the time to put that together. It saved me a ton of time. TGMer's rock!

ehem. Ok. so maybe I am a little bit addicted too. We are off in 2 and a half days! Woohoo!

 

[eeyore45]

I'm just glad to see a discussion with both points of view, usually I stay out of all TGM threads because I differ from those that love TGM and post such praise!

To each his own, and I like a discussion with both points of view!!

 

[mking624]

I'm one of those people who feels like it's a waste of *my* money to use TGM. I know people who love it...I'm personally not a fan. Someone described opening an unwrapped present when you already know what's inside. That's how it is for me and my husband. We enjoy exploring on our own, without someone telling us which days we should go to certain parks, or how to get into the shortest line, etc. So what if we wait a long time for a ride? It's not like we're in a rush to get out of WDW. That's just the way we are with our vacations. Other people are different, and that's fine. But neither group should be criticized for how they want to vacation.

Someone else mentioned brought up the scenario of people going their one and only time and spending a lot of money on the trip. Though I understand that point of view, one has to remember that millions of people have traveled to WDW once and only once and have survived without TGM and had a wonderful time.

 

[eeyore45]

On top of all the great info. that TGM provides...he is a good guy.

Annie

I would like to add that Len Testa is a "good guy" too,(and answers his emails really fast!) and his site touringplans.com offers lots of "Free" information (best days, MYW, dining plan etc)

again, to each his own, that's what I find great about the 'net, so much information, we get to decide what's best for our family!!

Thanks eveyone!

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

I totally agree. I thought tourguide Mike was cluttered, hard to navigate and had no real "new" info for me. I really hated the "insert your name here" personal messages I'd get. Get your $$ back- use it for some Mickey bars!

Couldn't have said it better myself. All my complaints about TGM in a nutshell.

There is no "automated" anything at TGM. It's a collection of articles with cutesy little style comments ("You know what I mean, {insert name}?", "You wouldn't want that, would you, {insert name}?" Much of the information in the articles is simply cut and pasted from other articles, making it more confusing than it needs to be.

One of the things people brag about is that "he's there every day and he updates constantly" which even TGM admitted on his own message board isn't true.

There are some people who swear by TGM, but I find that most of them use TGM for the message boards more than anything else (people who repeatedly subscribe).

I think it's great that some people enjoy giving TGM their money, but what I don't like is how many times when people give opinions about his site someone posts over in the TGM forums about "that awful DIS" and send in the 'troops to defend their paid web membership, when all people are doing is expressing the fact they didn't find the membership worth it. Refreshingly, this thread does not seem to have fallen as deep a victim to that as others.

N.E.D.

 

[fitzperry]

I'm one of those people who feels like it's a waste of *my* money to use TGM. I know people who love it...I'm personally not a fan. Someone described opening an unwrapped present when you already know what's inside. That's how it is for me and my husband. We enjoy exploring on our own, without someone telling us which days we should go to certain parks, or how to get into the shortest line, etc. So what if we wait a long time for a ride? It's not like we're in a rush to get out of WDW. That's just the way we are with our vacations. Other people are different, and that's fine. But neither group should be criticized for how they want to vacation.

I might feel that way if it were just me and dh. In fact, that's how we traveled before we had children, though we never went to Disney without them. We've learned through experience, however, that we're better off with a plan when we have two small kids in tow. We don't plan every detail, but we do have a general idea of what we want to do on a particular day, where we might like to eat, etc. The plan is always subject to revision if it isn't working or if we happen upon something we'd rather do. But it helps to know where you can find a great family-friendly meal near the Natural History Museum in Manhattan when you've got two hungry kids, just as it helps to know how to minimize the time they spend waiting in line at Disney World.

That being said, I tend to agree with several other posters that the term "Automated Vacation Planner" is a bit misleading and that there's too much repetition in TGM's articles. The information could be presented much more consisely, but then it wouldn't look like there was much information and people might be more reluctant to shell out the 20 bucks for a subscription. I did find it interesting to compare TGM's "best parks" data with that in the UG/touringplans. I've made a few changes to our itinerary based on TGM's suggestions, so we'll see what happens.

 

[mking624]

I've been to WDW with much more than just me and my dh...including children as young as 5 years old. Not everyone HAS to have TGM simply because children are involved. Perhaps it's best for you to use TGM because you obviously benefit from it, but not everyone vacations the same way you do. As I said, NEITHER grgoup should be criticized for how they want to vacation...whether you agree with their method or not. It's their personal way, let them be without having to come up with all the "what ifs"....just enjoy your vacation and move on.

 

[TheDogbots]

Well my opinion is both sides of the fence.

First For:
1) Buckets and buckets of info. I dont mind buying all the guidebooks and TGM is just another guidebook. if you can only buy one book and you are limited financially i understand, though i took a book my last time before TGM and barely used it more then a park map... TGM's articles are woth printing.... that being said i would say TGM is a viable option as your one "book" for your vacation. THough i would suggest collecting as much info as you can anyway
AND some of this info is definitely just mikes. Forget those who said they knew everything because they can not possibly know things that come directly from mikes own opinions.... because thier from his head!
2) community- this has pros and cons... for now the pros. Everyone is freindly and alot are willing to help you. It is also nice not sorting through 6 million DIS posts to get the info you want. they also for the msot part safe guard their information from the public. think of it as perhaps a club.
3) Mike from what i understand and have seen him post is generaly a good guy. He refunds promptly and trys to to do the best he can. He has stated he does not have to do TGM, he only does it because he feels that he can share info with those who dont have the big bucks to go with him personally. And believe me, when he has stated what he charges we all just went WOW.... the man makes money without the website, and does it to help others not so much to make money.
4)His plans work. If you want to see the best of the best and never have to wait too long in crowds then Mike is the man. If that is what you like, then he will be more then what you need.
5)He teaches you how to make your own decisions... how to think acording to the school of logic known as Tourguidemike. I think that is a very valuable asset he tells you why to do something when and you can use this info on the fly. This is the info no one else can give you unless they have the same experience as mike. this is the gold of what you are paying for.


Against:
1) community, you pay to be in a community or this "club" as i have dubbed it above, but you soon realize people have become fanatical for mike. Honestly some people that come over here and praise the gospel acording to Mike have no idea what they talk about. They don't have their own opinions on the boards over there and their posts consist of only praises to mike and nothing worth contributing. as soon as you say something negative they are on crusade. This can be very frustrating... and time consuming to sorth through. I also felt that their questions (as meaningless as they were to the subject at hand) would be answered more redily by mike, thus leaving less of his precious time to answer real questions by other members.... However not all of TGM members are like this, and their are many that are very valuable to that community, those are the wons that have stepped in and answer those questions mike gets around.... now if you feel wrong to pay mike money so a "teacher of the school of mike" can answer your questions then this isnt for you. It was just something that irked me. But then again, i love the guys over there that did help and they have come over here and helped too. some have been mentioned in this post already...
2)Site navigation. Its horrible.... period. He needs a better system.
3)updates are not as frequent as one may like from someone that "is in the park everyday."
4)if you really want to see everything take multiple trips and don't use TGM for all of the time you spend in disney. Take his advice for some but not all...
basicly what i am saying is it isnt the only guide you need in this area.
5)the damn cute pages.... thanks bill, you wouldn't want to do that bill.... etc etc... i could really do without those....



All in all i probably forgot something but that is generaly it. TGM is good for what it does. It is a club, and once you sort through the BS then you will get the info you want from the site and the members. Be polite and they will be the same to you. The articles are a good read, but lengthy and hard to nav. I would suggest it if you want another guidebook with a different prospective then the rest... another good thing about mike is that your subscription is good until a month after you return so if you are planning that trip for 07 get it now and have 2 years to read.....makes spreading out money for your trip easier... by the time you go you will forget you spent 20 bucks on the site. though i do get bummed when some jerk comes over here and spills some of his information, since i know i paid for it. but oh well.


sorry about gramar and spelling its late....

on a last note of a lengthy post that most people with ADHD will skip.... i don't really think you can knock it before trying it. Don't go telling others how horrible unless you know how horrible it is. Mike doesn't go slandering your buisness. please don't slander his!

****disclaimer I don't know mike, won't be buying the site again soon (i have as much as i need from the first time thanks!) and have no contact with any people using the site currently....

 

[Pedler]

That's how it is for me and my husband. We enjoy exploring on our own, without someone telling us which days we should go to certain parks, or how to get into the shortest line, etc. So what if we wait a long time for a ride? It's not like we're in a rush to get out of WDW. That's just the way we are with our vacations. Other people are different, and that's fine. But neither group should be criticized for how they want to vacation.

Someone else mentioned brought up the scenario of people going their one and only time and spending a lot of money on the trip. Though I understand that point of view, one has to remember that millions of people have traveled to WDW once and only once and have survived without TGM and had a wonderful time.

Mary,

You have hit the nail on the head as to why TGM isn't for everyone. For you avoiding crowds or long lines isn't really a benefit or isn't worth having to have a plan on what days to go to the parks and such. Your just happy to be there. TGM definitely wouldn't benefit you.

Yes there are millions of people that go to Disney on a once in a life time trip and have survived and had a wonderfull time without TGM or any plan. Then again if you were to ask some of those people would they have liked it if they could have waited no more than 5 - 8 minutes in any line for a ride, even in the summer, and gone on more rides without having to sprint from ride to ride I would think some of them, not all, would have thought that was a good idea.

Like I have said before a TGM style of vacation experience is not for everyone and some people would prefer not to vacation that way. The best way people can decided if that is the experience they want is to read some of the trip reports and get a feel for the experience others have had. With a money back guarantee there is no risk.

It is nice to see this thread hasn't turned into one of those extreme view point discussions.

BTW only 2 days to go until 7 nights at WL. Yippeee!

 

[Viki]

Hmmmm.

I don't find the pages of TourGuideMike hard to read.
I don't find them hard to navigate.
I don't find them cluttered, disjointed, or confusing, and I don't even bookmark them, like some say I'm suppossed to.
I don't belong to a club.
I've posted on their boards 3 times.
I've never read a post sending me over here and that would be funny because I'm here all the time anyway.
I haven't found all the information there discussed here.
Growing up in Fla I never stand in more than a 10-minute line.
I might recommend the site to a first timer, but I would be more likely to recommend it to someone with some experience, maybe even someone who thinks they've been there, done that, to help them see that they haven't.
Being an accomplished WDW traveler, I don't intend to get stuck in a rut of my own construction, so proud of my knowledge and expertise that I miss the new stuff or the quaint stuff or the stuff I pooh-poohed the first dozen times around that really might be fun to do.
I'm a J on the Myers-Briggs so I get that you Ps out there are not keen on the planning thing. Viva la difference, though Pness does not preclude the ability to make good use of good informaiton.

All of which is to say it's one more place to search for the gems and any discussion which gets much more heated beyond that can't be about $22.00; we disney types spend that freely on a whole host of other travel-related items.

 

[fitzperry]

I've been to WDW with much more than just me and my dh...including children as young as 5 years old. Not everyone HAS to have TGM simply because children are involved. Perhaps it's best for you to use TGM because you obviously benefit from it, but not everyone vacations the same way you do. As I said, NEITHER grgoup should be criticized for how they want to vacation...whether you agree with their method or not. It's their personal way, let them be without having to come up with all the "what ifs"....just enjoy your vacation and move on.

Relax please. No need to get defensive. I didn't suggest that anyone "HAS to have TGM" regardless of the ages of their traveling companions. Nor did I criticize anyone for not using him. Good grief.

 

[Mainebound]

Umm, maybe most. But certainly not all. I gave him plenty of time, and navigated those pages ad nauseum, and still can honestly say that you get more bang for your buck at UG's TouringPlans.com.

Oh, and by the way, when I saw some broken links on his pages, and asked him some questions about his updates, TGM got very mad at being questioned, and HE dropped ME! My, how professionally he treats his clients!

I also subsrcibed twice, for two trips and will not be re-upping. I got exactly ONE tip that I hadn't seen anywhere else, and many broken and outdated links and info.

I also agree that this guy needs a LOT of work in the PR department. He is borderline hostile to anyone who dares question him, no matter how nicely, on his TGM boards, and if the infraction is big enough you will get a personal and very passive aggressive email from him.

In my opinion, any paying customer is a good customer. But that's just not enough devotion for Mike.

 

[C.Ann]

I might recommend the site to a first timer, but I would be more likely to recommend it to someone with some experience, maybe even someone who thinks they've been there, done that, to help them see that they haven't.
Being an accomplished WDW traveler, I don't intend to get stuck in a rut of my own construction, so proud of my knowledge and expertise that I miss the new stuff or the quaint stuff or the stuff I pooh-poohed the first dozen times around that really might be fun to do.

--------------------

And how do you suppose Mike acquired this wealth of information that no one else could possibly know? Did he follow the "Tour Guide By Joe"? I would be very reluctant to make return trips to WDW if there was "nothing new" to be found/seen/heard on each trip.. Some people just prefer to explore on their own, rather than find/see/hear through the eyes of someone else..

Of course it also depends on your vacation style as well.. Some people approach WDW vacations with all the same intensity as a runner in a marathon (which speaking only for myself is not a "vacation").. Others approach it with an attitude of "We MUST see/do/ride XYZ".. And still others -such as myself, view it as a real "vacation" and take the time to "smell the roses" and seek out those very things that people believe "only" Mike knows about.. I prefer to explore on my own - other people need/want direction - someone to plan it all out for them step by step.. That's the great thing about WDW though - there's no "right" or "wrong" way to do it.. Mike's perception is just that - "his" perception.. Thinking "outside of the box" tends to develop ones own perception - which in turn results in a truly "personalized" vacation that no one can imitate - not even Mike.. Going into a vacation with the notion that it's going to be a total disaster if you don't have Mike's "secret" information will result in just that - a disaster.. Approach it with a mind set of an exciting adventure - a time of discovery - and you're good to go.. Works for me - and I guess that's all that really counts, right?

 

[Pedler]

I The plan is always subject to revision if it isn't working or if we happen upon something we'd rather do. But it helps to know where you can find a great family-friendly meal near the Natural History Museum in Manhattan when you've got two hungry kids, just as it helps to know how to minimize the time they spend waiting in line at Disney World.

I can relate. We took the kids to NYC in April and around 4:00 on a Friday we just wanted to find a place to get a cup of coffee and hot chocolate for the kids and sit down for a few minutes. We were at Times Square and it took several tries to find a Starbucks or any quick service place that had seating. All the time the meltdown clock was ticking.

DW lived in Manhattan for awhile and we used to go there all the time before kids. This was DS8 & DS6's first trip and what a change in how we "toured" the city. We also learned the all important lesson of knowing where the nearest bathroom was at all times and having the kids use them whenever there was one around.

BTW is there a family friendly place near the Natural History Mueseum? We went there on a Sunday Afternoon and wanted to get some desert and coffee afterwards and didn't find much right in that area. We took the subway back to mid town and hit a dinner there.

 

[JohnNJ]

We enjoy exploring on our own, without someone telling us which days we should go to certain parks, or how to get into the shortest line, etc. So what if we wait a long time for a ride?

You may not care about waiting in long lines, but most people do.

That's one of the main reasons people subscribe to TourGuideMike. They would rather spend quality time with their families by the pool or having a nice meal or just relaxing and still get to see/ride everything they want. I'm not real big on spending quality time with my kids in lines. I'm also not willing to tell my kids that they can't ride something they really want to just because we showed up at the wrong time and there's a line. Saying "Oh, don't worry kids. We'll catch this one next time." just doesn't fly.

 

[mking624]

You may not care about waiting in long lines, but most people do.

That's one of the main reasons people subscribe to TourGuideMike. They would rather spend quality time with their families by the pool or having a nice meal or just relaxing and still get to see/ride everything they want. I'm not real big on spending quality time with my kids in lines. I'm also not willing to tell my kids that they can't ride something they really want to just because we showed up at the wrong time and there's a line. Saying "Oh, don't worry kids. We'll catch this one next time." just doesn't fly.

Most people do? Is that why then most people wait in those long lines as opposed to getting fast passes? Funny how I see most people in those long lines enjoying lighthearted conversations with each other and smiling away. I guess the term "most people" is extremely relevant. But then, I really haven't polled every last person in the world to know the truth behind the term "most people." And before I get called on being "defensive" again let me say there IS sarcasm in this.

I'm glad you enjoy TGM. But it really has no bearing on my personal opinion that it's a waste of *my* money (and if you really read my post, you would have seen that I was talking about how *I* vacation, not someone else). If you're not big on how I like to vacation, fine...it's obviously not for you. But no amount of convincing is going to change the way my family and I have been happily vacationing for years. I just wish more people (including TGM users) would get that. Perhaps then we would avoid threads like this.

 

[vatmark]

--------------------

And how do you suppose Mike acquired this wealth of information that no one else could possibly know? Did he follow the "Tour Guide By Joe"? I would be very reluctant to make return trips to WDW if there was "nothing new" to be found/seen/heard on each trip.. Some people just prefer to explore on their own, rather than find/see/hear through the eyes of someone else..

Of course it also depends on your vacation style as well.. Some people approach WDW vacations with all the same intensity as a runner in a marathon (which speaking only for myself is not a "vacation").. Others approach it with an attitude of "We MUST see/do/ride XYZ".. And still others -such as myself, view it as a real "vacation" and take the time to "smell the roses" and seek out those very things that people believe "only" Mike knows about.. I prefer to explore on my own - other people need/want direction - someone to plan it all out for them step by step.. That's the great thing about WDW though - there's no "right" or "wrong" way to do it.. Mike's perception is just that - "his" perception.. Thinking "outside of the box" tends to develop ones own perception - which in turn results in a truly "personalized" vacation that no one can imitate - not even Mike.. Going into a vacation with the notion that it's going to be a total disaster if you don't have Mike's "secret" information will result in just that - a disaster.. Approach it with a mind set of an exciting adventure - a time of discovery - and you're good to go.. Works for me - and I guess that's all that really counts, right?

Oh I see those of us who are using TGM's info are not going on real vacations. No one is saying that a person can not have a good vacation w/o TGM. That without TGM a vacation to Disney would be a disater. Using info. from TGM is no different then using the UG or any other informative Disney book. It's just that...Information. What you do with that information is up to you.

Annie

 

[Pedler]

--------------------
Of course it also depends on your vacation style as well.. Some people approach WDW vacations with all the same intensity as a runner in a marathon (which speaking only for myself is not a "vacation").. Others approach it with an attitude of "We MUST see/do/ride XYZ".. And still others -such as myself, view it as a real "vacation" and take the time to "smell the roses"

C.Ann,

I would also suggest that there is another type of vactioning style. People that want to relax but also be well informed about where they are going before they get there. You don't need to do it marathon style or commando style, and BTW Mike doesn't reccomend either, to have a planned vacation. Or as he says tired people don't make happy memories. The biggest planning tenant of TGM is to avoid waiting in long lines. To do that you plan your day out a bit and the order you may see attractions. To some people its worth it to avoid the lines to others it doesn't really matter. To each thier own.

TGM isn't for everyone but the TGM style isn't commando either. It is an organized relaxing vacation experience that allows people to see the best of the best and forget the rest.

 

[mking624]

Relax please. No need to get defensive. I didn't suggest that anyone "HAS to have TGM" regardless of the ages of their traveling companions. Nor did I criticize anyone for not using him. Good grief.

I wasn't getting defensive. I was simply pointing out that the way I feel has nothing to do with the fact that it's just me and my husband....you made a point of bringing up "if it was just you and your dh" so I made a point to bring up that I do know what it's like to travel with more than just him. Which is why I said that people with children don't have to use it. So in your words, "relax."