Tour Groups: What's Your Solution?

[MonorailLime]

I'm going to pose a question for the sake of understanding where this problem lies:
Lets pretend you are a Disney Executive, and you have been tasked with identifying how large, often foreign, tour groups impact the overall Guest experience. You have identified the following truths (this is true, non-hypothetical data):
1.) Most tour groups purchase gate-priced tickets since they are not affiliated with any "Groups" eligible discounts (Sports, YES, Performing Arts, etc,).
2.) Most tour groups do not communicate with Disney their iteneraries, and (not always) often stay off-site.
3.) Legal precedents make it very difficult to interact with these groups for liability in regard to racism and profiling technicalities.
4.) Your work force such as Security must tend to the needs of ALL Guests, and therefore may not always be available to rectify challenges.
5.) The tour groups are *generally* not destructive, but can disrupt the delicate stories you try to portray.

How do you, as a company leader, solve the problems of Guests dissatisfied by interactions with these groups?
Please respond only if you can create a response that agrees with the presented facts. Please do not make assumptions, hypotheticals, racist comments, or generally negative statements. This thread is designed to find legal, positive solutions that benefit all parties.
The five data points presented are based on true data and constraints common in the themed entertainment industry.
Thank you for your feedback. I look forward to reading your thoughts.
-MonorailLime

 

[DizCaptain]

Easy. I take my multi-million dollar bonus, and resign.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Simple. I would make a maximum group size that a group can walk around the park in. I worked at a camp and we would take kids to theme parks, etc and we never walked around in groups of that size. Ten at the most, five is even better.

 

[Denmage]

Easy. I take my multi-million dollar bonus, and resign.

"Golden Parachute" for the WIN!

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Interesting question, and one I'm going to ponder and try to answer intelligently. I do have a follow up question: are their any Lawson Florida regarding mob activity? By mob activity I mean like walking 10-15 people across, holding hands/locking arms, not allowing people to pass and trampling anyone in their way?

 

[wiigirl]

Easy. I take my multi-million dollar bonus, and resign.

 

[Odelay]

Unless the company in question saw negative financial impacts from this 'issue,' why would they have any incentive to act at all?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Simple. I would make a maximum group size that a group can walk around the park in. I worked at a camp and we would take kids to theme parks, etc and we never walked around in groups of that size. Ten at the most, five is even better.

Interesting idea (and one i've seen used in schools as well) but how does wdw enforce that?

 

[AJRitz]

I'm going to pose a question for the sake of understanding where this problem lies:
Lets pretend you are a Disney Executive, and you have been tasked with identifying how large, often foreign, tour groups impact the overall Guest experience. You have identified the following truths (this is true, non-hypothetical data):
1.) Most tour groups purchase gate-priced tickets since they are not affiliated with any "Groups" eligible discounts (Sports, YES, Performing Arts, etc,).

False. Most large tour groups are on "affinity group" tours, which include discounted tickets and on-property room rates. (Those that are not are traveling with tour operators who are likely to be out of business soon, because such affinity groups are easy to set up and save folks lots of money. Tour operators not utilizing these deals are not market-competitive).

2.) Most tour groups do not communicate with Disney their iteneraries, and (not always) often stay off-site.

These are a bit harder to deal with, but Disney does have existing rules regarding the minimum chaperone to youth ratio for those traveling on youth group tickets. There are also existing rules on maximum tour group size. The difficulty has been in enforcing those rules.

3.) Legal precedents make it very difficult to interact with these groups for liability in regard to racism and profiling technicalities.

False. There is no such legal precedent regarding dealing with large tour groups. There is no racism in requiring foreign tour groups to comply with the same rules with which US tour groups must comply, nor is that "profiling."

4.) Your work force such as Security must tend to the needs of ALL Guests, and therefore may not always be available to rectify challenges.

This is the core of the problem, and the area in which there's the most room to make improvements. On the one hand, Disney doesn't want to put requirements on the tour operators that are overly onerous, because the tour operators bring in large amounts of money, especially the off-season tours that prop up attendance during the slower season. On the other hand, the volume of negative experience with the large tour groups is growing, and Disney will likely start losing some of their domestic off-season busines if they allow things to continue to operate as they are. One answer is to build-in to the contract with large tour operators a security service fee and a system by which more senior security personnel check up periodically on the tour groups (part of the problem is that, right now, newbie frontline security folks are often stuck with dealing with the tour groups, and they just get steamrolled). Another is that, as part of the contract, the tour operator needs to be held personally liable for fines resulting from specific kinds of problematic behavior. This includes things like line jumping, which would subject most guests to ejection from the park, but which the tour groups seem to get away with regularly. A fine system would give the tour guides some incentive to help enforce park rules, rather than encourage breaking them.

5.) The tour groups are *generally* not destructive, but can disrupt the delicate stories you try to portray.

I don't care so much about minor disruptions in the storytelling in the park. I don't think tour groups are uniquely responsible for that. (Though they do need to do a better job overall enforcing the "no flash photography on dark rides" rules). The more serious issues are the ones in which tour group members cause substantial disruption to other guests' park experiences. These are the things like butting ahead of families at the last minute for parade or fireworks viewing (especially in large groups); rampant line jumping; and ANY incident of inappropriate physical contact with another guest should result in immediate removal from the park (I've heard at least two recent firsthand stories of tour group members running over other guests, one a small child).

 

[mrsdrake625]

Penalizing bad behavior only works when you incentivize good.

A) Utilize FP+
Large tour groups could benefit from fastpass+. Problems people have mentioned are tour group leaders getting stacks of 100s of fastpasses, etc. The tour group discount could only be available with a special kind of magic band, etc. which would make it very easy to track who is supposed to be where re: lines, rides, etc. There could be a special tour group fastpass+ option that would keep them away from the regular lines as much as possible.

Rules: you have to show up as a group, or you don't get into the fastpass line. Period. So groups stay together, curbing the line jumping.

Incentive for the tour guide is to have the kids stay together, instead of running amok. Penalization for kids (and guide) is they don't get to ride unless everyone is there, together, or have to wait in a very very long line (as opposed to knowing they could be waiting in a shorter one with their FP+).

Security could also have the option to put a "strike" on a kid's wristband if they misbehave - for them or their small group. Three strikes, you're out. This introduces consequences that result in an incentive to behave, instead of just kicking the kids out (which everyone knows they can't or won't do).

B) Smaller, more accountable groups with designated chaperones
This would also make it easier to keep everyone in smaller groups. I used to work with teenagers - SMALLER = BETTER. 10-15 is pushing it, in my opinion, per adult, especially if the adult is a "stranger," i.e. not a real authority figure. Hired guides don't count or care.

Fastpass+ would make "checking in" somewhere every few hours easier. To get the tour group discount, have to register so many adults as "chaperones," who are the only ones with privileges to modify the FP+ schedule, etc.

C) Mealtimes:
Disney has got to have some kind of picnic area somewhere. Fort Wilderness??? Maybe they could pre-order lunches and get the kids out of the main park area into somewhere else, shaded. Give them some time to cool off and spread out for a bit while they eat.

D) Peer Pressure: this is the biggest thing that could be leveraged. This may not sound so kind at first but it makes everyone happier If you can get the kids to regulate themselves you solve a lot of problems on your end. If ten other kids know they aren't allowed to do X Y or Z because their friend disobeyed the rules, guess what they won't let happen?

Kids are put into smaller groups, and one's bad behavior results in loss of privileges for the rest. One of them gets kicked out, all of them get kicked out, or something. If they want to go to Disney as a group, then they gain or lose privileges as a group. Making the groups smaller isolates problems without penalizing the rest of the group - who may be perfectly sweet kids outside of the bad influence of others.

E) Enforce the rules - plain and simple.
It's completely within Disney's rights to do this. I don't see their tour industry suffering from it. I hate to say it but sometimes there is a time to make an example of someone. Kids are masters of testing limits - and when they know they won't get in trouble, they will do whatever they want. In that case, kick the kids out of the park when they've truly earned it - see strike system above - forcing the adult and rest of their group to go with them as they cannot be unsupervised in the park. The key is making sure the responsible person or group is the one with consequences, not everyone. Smaller groups make this easier to do and police.

Questions:
1. Is there any kind of contract signed? I.e. to the effect that the rules are enforceable and the tour leader is responsible for the kids?

2. What is the current adult/kid ratio? or is there one?

3. What are the reports of kids sitting in the bathrooms charging cell phones, doing hair, etc? Are they not riding rides? I would think there would be an itinerary. I would be mad if I paid all that money to sit in a bathroom.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Interesting idea (and one i've seen used in schools as well) but how does wdw enforce that?

Maybe put in the ticket terms and conditions, alert the tour groups so they can plan, and then enforce it when they see a violation.

 

[darnheather]

One tour guide over the age of 21 per 15 guests at all times.

 

[Chabby]

Teenage tour groups usually have meetings prior to traveling, I think... I know I had lots of meetings before my 16th birthday tour (not to WDW, I swear I'm not one of them ).

Rules could and should be communicated to the teens and their parents at those meetings. Disney can tell the operator what is expected and they should pass the message along.

At a different thread about this same issue someone mentioned it being a matter of what is accepted in one culture and not in another. I can't think of a culture in which running over people, pushing or cutting lines is acceptable! So I think if the rules are explained clearly to operators, teenagers and their parents (so they can talk to the children before they leave). Things should get better.

 

[zumfelde]

The first thing Disney must do is set rules and ENFORCE them. If you break a rule you are escorted from the park. I have seen a few people escorted from Cedar Point for line jumping.

 

[Judyfun]

There are some very well thought out ideas that have been included in this thread. I hope that the folks at Disney take the time to read through them.

As a former Girl Scout Leader of over 20 years, who has taken many groups of girls to WDW, I know the challenges and know that a fun time can be had by all the children, their parents, and others around them.

Have enjoyed reading this thread

Judy
AP member and life time fan of all things Disney

 

[ArwenMarie]

I'm not sure if the concept of calm, orderly lines is a global concept. It doesn't change things...When in Rome...

 

[MonorailLime]

.

 

[johnGorski]

Well as I visitor I see one of those flags I go the opposite direction.

 

[sfbntpc]

We just came back from Disney last week, and we went at the height of a certain countries tour groups. Our last 2 days at MK were awesome, all groups were kids no more than 20, and most of the guides looked like they were in their 30s-40s and included men and women. The groups were very well behaved and organized (prob because they were so small), and were from quite a few different companies. Now comes HS a few days earlier, my problems and solutions:
1. Coming around the corner over 100 foreign kids near pizza planet talking, all of a sudden they all get in line at Pizza Planet. We were not eating there anyway, but Disney could have given them a menu from PP, taken orders and had a special place for them eat and deliver their food to them.
2. Now Fantasmic--everyone knows how big that theater is, 2 tour groups took up about 3 sections for the show we did the dinner package, so we did not have a problem, but with so many parents and small kids, Disney should have made those groups wait until the second show (later and maybe not as crowded), so other visitors could have gotten in easier.
Next is the exit, we went the back way down the ramp that puts us laser to the exit, the groups took up the whole ramp, I walked in the grass, many with strollers just stopped until they went by, and several girls ran down the ramp and 2 tripped oner the stroller almost knocking my son out . I was not happy but again Disney should have let them exit a different way from everybody else or held the groups until the people got half way down the ramps with strollers, kids, elderly, and those who use those motorized things to get around.
3. Same thing at Lights, Motors, Action..took up about 1/3 of the seating, but instead of making those kids wait, they left with all the families again.

Those groups at HS were too big, mostly girls, and most of the guides were males. As they walked around the park, their groups were around 30. I know the same amount of people dismiss from these shows all the time but it is different when it is all families versus so many teenagers. I thought Disney was getting more strict on the number of chaperones?? I dont mind them getting special or separate things/events if it makes it easier on those with families. I also think it would be better on their restaurants, because they can prepare better for a large group like that.
I will never go back in July to crowded

 

[grimb]

We travel to the world every summer and Christmas and have never had any problems with tour groups. They might talk loud, like to all travel in the same direction, and sometimes seems like they are everywhere. I have been cut in line by other people more then the groups. I just did not like the idea of the tour operator taking all their tickets and fast passing 200 tickets for the same ride. I watched them trash the outlet mall last summer but they were spending large amounts of money. Disney should require them to have more guides per group and brake them into smaller groups.