Tour Groups: What's Your Solution?

[Angel Ariel]

Maybe put in the ticket terms and conditions, alert the tour groups so they can plan, and then enforce it when they see a violation.

but what's the enforcement? breaking the groups up? not allowing them in the line? escorting them from the park?

 

[ArwenMarie]

but what's the enforcement? breaking the groups up? not allowing them in the line? escorting them from the park?

Sure.

Do these groups register with Disney or do they just come?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Sure.

sure to what? there were a few options listed..

Do these groups register with Disney or do they just come?

on this, i have no idea.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

DH and I were discussing this the other night. We think Disney should hire and train a group of tour guides who speak a variety of languages. They could assign a guide to work alongside each groups' guide. They would help shepherd the groups through the parks, ensure that rules are being followed and that everyone (groups and other guests) are having the best possible experience. If there's more than one group in a particular park, the guides would coordinate to keep their groups in different areas at the same time to keep the crowds evened out.

When they walk through the gates, the guides would meet up with them and have a quick meeting (welcome to Epcot, we're going to have a great day, the park is going to be crowded today so just a few reminders - we will all get in line and stay in line together, please walk no more than 2 across on walkways to keep traffic moving, I know you like to chant and show your country spirit, but we need to stay relatively quiet to respect other guests, etc.). The guide would stay with the group all day, and not only keep law and order, but make sure they tour efficiently and maximize their time. I would think tour companies would see it as a positive that Disney would provide guides for their groups. Sure, it would cost money, but I think it would be a win-win for everyone.

 

[laurab84]

wouldn't it be lovely if one week of the year Disney was shut and only the big tour groups were allowed in! let them cut in front of each other in line! then we know we will be big group free.

I also have a small son who I can't wait to bring to Disney, before I had him I had the same idea but a Wrekin worth no under 16's! no buggies, no young children being dragged about when their shattered and upset. bliss! I could never not take my son with me of course now I'm a mum but I bet others have felt the same at times!


Posted from DISboards.com App for Android

 

[ArwenMarie]

sure to what? there were a few options listed..

Sorry! I was just saying sure to all of them. It's their park. They can make the rules that they want and they can enforce them including asking people to leave, etc.

I guess my main point is that Disney allows them to walk around in big groups, so I don't blame the groups, I blame Disney (based on what I believe which is smaller groups of teens are easier to manage than large groups)

 

[Odelay]

DH and I were discussing this the other night. We think Disney should hire and train a group of tour guides who speak a variety of languages. They could assign a guide to work alongside each groups' guide. They would help shepherd the groups through the parks, ensure that rules are being followed and that everyone (groups and other guests) are having the best possible experience. If there's more than one group in a particular park, the guides would coordinate to keep their groups in different areas at the same time to keep the crowds evened out.

When they walk through the gates, the guides would meet up with them and have a quick meeting (welcome to Epcot, we're going to have a great day, the park is going to be crowded today so just a few reminders - we will all get in line and stay in line together, please walk no more than 2 across on walkways to keep traffic moving, I know you like to chant and show your country spirit, but we need to stay relatively quiet to respect other guests, etc.). The guide would stay with the group all day, and not only keep law and order, but make sure they tour efficiently and maximize their time. I would think tour companies would see it as a positive that Disney would provide guides for their groups. Sure, it would cost money, but I think it would be a win-win for everyone.

Or Disney could do what they're doing now (nothing), and get a much better return on investment. They're not going to address this until there's a financial incentive to.

 

[captainjen]

Simple. I would make a maximum group size that a group can walk around the park in. I worked at a camp and we would take kids to theme parks, etc and we never walked around in groups of that size. Ten at the most, five is even better.

I completely agree. I would insist on a paid Disney employee for each group of 20 and those 20 "guest" would be told that they are not to cut in line or chant so loudly that it would cause other park "guest" to be annoyed This would go for all groups no matter if they are pop warner teams, boy scout troups or visitors from other countries

 

[captainjen]

DH and I were discussing this the other night. We think Disney should hire and train a group of tour guides who speak a variety of languages. They could assign a guide to work alongside each groups' guide. They would help shepherd the groups through the parks, ensure that rules are being followed and that everyone (groups and other guests) are having the best possible experience. If there's more than one group in a particular park, the guides would coordinate to keep their groups in different areas at the same time to keep the crowds evened out.

When they walk through the gates, the guides would meet up with them and have a quick meeting (welcome to Epcot, we're going to have a great day, the park is going to be crowded today so just a few reminders - we will all get in line and stay in line together, please walk no more than 2 across on walkways to keep traffic moving, I know you like to chant and show your country spirit, but we need to stay relatively quiet to respect other guests, etc.). The guide would stay with the group all day, and not only keep law and order, but make sure they tour efficiently and maximize their time. I would think tour companies would see it as a positive that Disney would provide guides for their groups. Sure, it would cost money, but I think it would be a win-win for everyone.

Wow that makes so much sense that I cannot understand why Disney does not do this! It would make it so much more enjoyable for those visiting the Parks

 

[Q-man]

Wow that makes so much sense that I cannot understand why Disney does not do this! It would make it so much more enjoyable for those visiting the Parks

Because it would be incredibly expensive. Figure 30 people to a subgroup for being about the largest manageable size. So for a group of a thousand you'd need 30+ of these highly trained bilingual diplomats per 40 hour work week. Once you train them how do you retain them? What do you do with them for the 41 weeks of the year without these groups?

I wonder if RfID bands and FP+ may bring enough changes to how touring the parks goes that it calms this behavior. Or could be used as a management tool like groups automatically get put in reserved parade seating for FP+. Or half the group in the first Fantasmic and half in the second with the other half having an E-ticket FP+ ressie during the show.

 

[zulemara]

Because it would be incredibly expensive. Figure 30 people to a subgroup for being about the largest manageable size. So for a group of a thousand you'd need 30+ of these highly trained bilingual diplomats per 40 hour work week. Once you train them how do you retain them? What do you do with them for the 41 weeks of the year without these groups?

I wonder if RfID bands and FP+ may bring enough changes to how touring the parks goes that it calms this behavior. Or could be used as a management tool like groups automatically get put in reserved parade seating for FP+. Or half the group in the first Fantasmic and half in the second with the other half having an E-ticket FP+ ressie during the show.

Usually these types of people come from Guest Relations. They could be utilized in that role when not assigned a tour group.

It's expensive, but I think it's the best solution.

Regarding enforcing the rules, it's a problem of CMs A) not having enough power and B) not caring

Case in point - inappropriate shirts. Did you know the ONLY frontline CM that can ask someone to turn a shirt inside out is the person at the turnstiles? Yeah, that person dealing with people who can't stick it in and put a finger on it(or slide a wrist now) are supposed to also monitor shirts. Anyone else, including security, who wants to confront a guest has to get a manager. So you have a line 30 people long at a cash register, are you going to confront that guest, hold up the line, and get a manager? No...

The same goes for the other "rules" that simply don't get enforced. With line jumping, unless a CM sees it AND acts by getting a manager, nothing can be done. Even then, the managers don't wanna deal with that, they're more likely to get a warning, one that no other manager is going to be aware of.

The best defense against these things quite honestly are guests saying "no, you can stay back there, you enter together or you don't move ahead of me" As a guest, I'm the first one to yell at someone for not going to the end of the row, using flash, or talking on a cell phone during CoP. I like the fact that I can have a very annoyed tone that a CM is not able to have.

 

[tictoc]

I got back yesterday and I am sorry but the tour groups definitely took away from my experience. I was there with my 18, 17 and 11 year old children. These groups of virtually unsupervised, uncontrolled children was ridiculous. They ran over both me and my daughter. My ankle is still swollen and my daughter twisted her knee. I ended up at minor care with her and then had to push her around in a wheel chair the rest of the two weeks. When I spoke to Guest Relations they said it was just a cultural difference. it is not a cultural difference. It is a huge amount of unsupervised children running through a park.

I was talking with one of the chaperones and she said that there were two chaperones with 93 15 year old girls from another country. These kids were yelling and running and lying in the middle of every walk way. They were impossible to avoid. Luckily we were at The Contemporary so there were none at our hotel. I cannot imagine sending my kids to a foreign country unsupervised like that. I sent my boys to Australia when they were 15. There was a chaperone ( a certified school teacher with People to People) for every 10 kids.

I have been during very busy times--two separate trips the park was closed for entry by 11 a.m. It is not the crowds that bothered me it was this crowd.

We still had an amazing time because we worked a plan around them.

 

[Ego831]

I'm going to pose a question for the sake of understanding where this problem lies:
Lets pretend you are a Disney Executive, and you have been tasked with identifying how large, often foreign, tour groups impact the overall Guest experience. You have identified the following truths (this is true, non-hypothetical data):
1.) Most tour groups purchase gate-priced tickets since they are not affiliated with any "Groups" eligible discounts (Sports, YES, Performing Arts, etc,).
2.) Most tour groups do not communicate with Disney their iteneraries, and (not always) often stay off-site.
3.) Legal precedents make it very difficult to interact with these groups for liability in regard to racism and profiling technicalities.
4.) Your work force such as Security must tend to the needs of ALL Guests, and therefore may not always be available to rectify challenges.
5.) The tour groups are *generally* not destructive, but can disrupt the delicate stories you try to portray.

How do you, as a company leader, solve the problems of Guests dissatisfied by interactions with these groups?
Please respond only if you can create a response that agrees with the presented facts. Please do not make assumptions, hypotheticals, racist comments, or generally negative statements. This thread is designed to find legal, positive solutions that benefit all parties.
The five data points presented are based on true data and constraints common in the themed entertainment industry.
Thank you for your feedback. I look forward to reading your thoughts.
-MonorailLime

MonorailLime: Thank you for putting together a very though-out and unemotional post. THANK YOU! really THANK YOU!

I do have one COMMENT and one QUESTION:

COMMENT: I have been going to Disney for over 40 years - at all times of the year: Spring, Summer and Winter - and while I have seen the large groups that people speak about all the time on this board I have never personally come across nor have any friends and family that regularly go the extreme behavior outlined on this board so (with all due respect) it is very difficult to take people at their word that they have been trampled and assaulted. I continue to feel that instances are exaggerated or purely fabricated for other reasons such as lawsuits, or the posters personal attention and me-too mentality, or - I don't want to say - the other reason which I will not bring up again.

There is even an article on CNN, about Federal, State and even the businesses themselves (Disney, SeaWorld, Outlet malls, etc.) soliciting more and more visitors from growing BRIC economies with large budgets to spend to spend them in Florida. (I have found others in the Orlando Sentinel, etc.)

CNN Article: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/24/travel...urist-invasion

Disney has even hired extra people to specifically help and support these folks and encourage them to come back and bring more friends and families. Disney hired 50+ Super Greeters most of them from Brazil to assist Brazilian tour groups throughout the park.

SeaWorld has launched web sites in Portuguese and specifically markets to these groups to get them to come&.

So to summarize (my long) comment: Foreign groups because of the money they bring will continue to come and will CERTAINLY GROW not diminish in the near future due to the business themselves soliciting them and their growing economies.



<<<QUESTION>>>:

Going back to how my comment started: I have looked on-line several times and have not found any official (not blogs and other non-corroborated personal sources) reporting of the incidents and the type of behavior that everyone is reporting.

No television reports, no news or magazine articles NOTHING! Im not talking about walking together and chanting or cutting the line all large teenage tour groups do that but the physical trampling and assaults which I agree is UNACEEPTABLE (if true). I believe if these things really occurred to the extent that people report them on this board - there would certainly be news articles, police reports, lawsuits, etc. I can find reports of Tiger behaving inappropriately - but I can't find a report about 20 people in a tour group trampling a baby or knocking down elderly folks?!!!!!

The fact that I have not found any official reports, coupled with the fact that I have seen these groups in the parks behaving well leads me believe again, that the reports by people are either not true or simply exaggerations. If you have been hurt seriously, knocked down or ended up in the Disney infirmary - there would be some serious reporting by people - not a post explaining how their two week vacation was ruined by having to be in a wheel chair or walk around on crutches. There would be police reports, Disney reports that can be pulled to corroborate, etc!!!!

I am sure I will get responses about the Disney or the Florida Chamber of Commerce machine suppressing the information, etc. But really think about it. If you are reading this post impartially - don't you think there would be more serious reports of these incidents?!?! And if they happened with the frequency that people say - this would be all over the news!

If these horrible things of children and the elderly being assaulted and trampled on a regular basis was really occurring I am SURE it would be reported in some major media outlets. I dont see it so I find it very hard to believe!

Cutting in line or getting in front of you for a parade - people cut in line at the airport all the time and people stand in front of me at the 4th of July parade I am speaking of the really serious things that people accuse tour groups of doing the assault!

Going back to the point of your post - SUGGESTIONS: South Florida business Disney included continue to hire folks and actively solicit business from these areas I would reach out to the appropriate Chamber of Commerce and advise them that due to these reasons with this specific proof we will ask folks to boycott specific businesses until our concerns are discussed and addressed.

This all comes back to economics (which I am sure is what people will say is the reason there is not more reporting conspiracy! Conspiracy! Conspiracy!) and if you want to change the behavior of Disney your impact has to supersede the economic impact that these tour groups bring to South Florida/Disney.
But people will only get on-board your cause if you have the proof to back it up the serious allegations that people make.

 

[tictoc]

The fact that I have not found any official reports, coupled with the fact that I have seen these groups in the parks behaving well leads me believe again, that the reports by people are either not true or simply exaggerations. If you have been hurt seriously, knocked down or ended up in the Disney infirmary - there would be some serious reporting by people - not a post explaining how their two week vacation was ruined by having to be in a wheel chair or walk around on crutches. There would be police reports, Disney reports that can be pulled to corroborate, etc!!!!

My daughter and I were exiting the ToT area and a very large group of teens were rushing toward the line entrance. Since they were being led by someone with a flag and all wearing matching shirts, I can only assume they were a tour group. They were not paying attention and it appeared they were only focused on getting in line and getting there together. My daughter and I both hit the ground. My ankle turned and my daughter's knee twisted and both swelled. In fact my ankle is still swollen. I did take my daughter to Concentra to get ibuprofen and a knee brace. I did not complete a police report as I do not believe it was a criminal act, just a very irresponsible one. The chanting and walking arm in arm was fine with me, the lack of common courtesy was not. Again, I do not think any unsupervised group of teens whether at an airport or theme park can get out of hand. It did not ruin my vacation, but it certainly did cause me a hassle that was not necessary.

 

[Q-man]

^^^

Do you really expect Disney, or any business interest in Orlando, to report the bad behavior by these groups that spend millions and millions of dollars there and risk losing others' dollars?

Just be warned about these groups effects on the parks from the beginning of Jan. to mid Feb. and last week of June to the last week of July. Obviously, lower crowd levels in Jan. and Feb. make working around these groups much easier. The June-July break is the peak as it their winter and they are escaping freezing temps in the Southern Hemisphere.

 

[Odelay]

I would think the most obvious solution for any customer that does not like the conditions or services of a particular company would be to exercise their vote by simply not spending their money there. If enough people did this, that company would be forced to address whatever the issue may be. If you continue to give your patronage, you are tacitly approving of the conditions and services provided and have little room for complaint.

 

[SallyfromDE]

I went with a school group for a band competition, they had 2 adults for every 5 students. I'm sure for the sake of Customer Service, Disney doesn't want to step in and offend anyone. but they could put guidelines in force for these groups to enter and keep their entrance rights.

 

[Gareth& Hayley]

We've experienced similar issues with children from the local Orlando area on a school trip at Sea World in May this year - in addition to the experiences shared above.

In almost all cases the issue seems to be related to group sizes. Crowd behavior is heavily influenced by the loss of responsibility - the greater number of people the bigger the loss of responsibility. In addition to this weak supervision and/or a small supervision ratio will also hugely influence that loss of responsibility.

There are many theoretical perspectives to consider but my first move would be simple.

- Enforcement on group size and level of supervision. This would have to be strictly enforced with attraction CM refusing entry to stand-by lines for organised groups exceeding a stated size.

What I would also have to consider however is these groups bring in much needed revenue and I wouldn't want to make things more difficult for them. For this reason if the groups stay within a given size I would reward them for doing this - such as pre-arranged FP (think FP+) or open up group only areas for dinning (room I have closed off usually because of crowd levels).

I think restriction must be balanced with perks. They bring me an excellent and growing stream of revenue at the perfect 'slow time' for my resort.

Some other general ideas...

Education (in addition to ideas already mentioned):
- Organised and very formal briefing from park security to the group. Perhaps on the bus as they arrive. Consider it a firm warning (reading the riot act to them) on why they must behave.

Punishment:
This would be the most difficult and limited. Usual park guidelines would apply. I would push the focus towards the other areas. Options to refuse future entry and a whole list of other punishments could be highlighted during the education section but reality would be it would be rarely used.

 

[Odelay]

We've experienced similar issues with children from the local Orlando area on a school trip at Sea World in May this year - in addition to the experiences shared above.

In almost all cases the issue seems to be related to group sizes. Crowd behavior is heavily influenced by the loss of responsibility - the greater number of people the bigger the loss of responsibility. In addition to this weak supervision and/or a small supervision ratio will also hugely influence that loss of responsibility.

There are many theoretical perspectives to consider but my first move would be simple.

- Enforcement on group size and level of supervision. This would have to be strictly enforced with attraction CM refusing entry to stand-by lines for organised groups exceeding a stated size.

What I would also have to consider however is these groups bring in much needed revenue and I wouldn't want to make things more difficult for them. For this reason if the groups stay within a given size I would reward them for doing this - such as pre-arranged FP (think FP+) or open up group only areas for dinning (room I have closed off usually because of crowd levels).

I think restriction must be balanced with perks. They bring me an excellent and growing stream of revenue at the perfect 'slow time' for my resort.

Some other general ideas...

Education (in addition to ideas already mentioned):
- Organised and very formal briefing from park security to the group. Perhaps on the bus as they arrive. Consider it a firm warning (reading the riot act to them) on why they must behave.

Punishment:
This would be the most difficult and limited. Usual park guidelines would apply. I would push the focus towards the other areas. Options to refuse future entry and a whole list of other punishments could be highlighted during the education section but reality would be it would be rarely used.

Nothing brings out the magic in a luxurious, high priced vacation quite like a formal briefing and being read the riot act by management. What would your reaction be if Disney gave you and your party a sternly worded lecture and list of punishments for rule breaking prior to park entry?

 

[maddiebee]

Nothing brings out the magic in a luxurious, high priced vacation quite like a formal briefing and being read the riot act by management. What would your reaction be if Disney gave you and your party a sternly worded lecture and list of punishments for rule breaking prior to park entry?

Isn't the point for the kids to be on vacation and the chaperones/guides are working? I think this makes perfect sense for this situation. If someone were to sit down my boyfriend and I or families and give us rules and what not, it would obviously be different and unwelcome.
If you're working with huge groups things are totally different and require some sort of organization and putting the leaders all on the same page.