Total Money Makeover

[C.Ann]

. Good grief, surely there is a better way than this to try and prove not everyone can pay in 30 days.

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I'm sure you must have heard by now about the family that hired a limo to take them all the way from NO to Chicago, correct? With havoc going on all around them, who do you think that driver would be more likely to transport - the person standing there with cash in their hand or the person with the credit card?

I'm fully aware of the fact that there is a MAJOR tragedy going on right now and it's usually a MAJOR situation that brings the whole house of cards tumbling down on people.. You may feel I'm "using" this situation to "prove" something, but it could be any major situation that could result in the same scenario.. You know what they say - "Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.."

I guess you didn't see much of the news coverage while you were away because this has not only had an impact on the very poor people of LA, AL and MS - it's across the board.. Do you have any idea how many people have lost their jobs in addition to losing everything else they own? Do you think the credit card companies will wait indefinitely for their money? I'm sure that some (although I doubt "all") will cut them some slack for a short period of time but after that, all bets are off.. They are owed money and they are going to want it back - no if, ands or buts about it.. There's no disputing that fact..

 

[C.Ann]

I have no problem with people having savings, being careful..I do have a problem with someone acting like a cc is a sinful thing to have, and trying to convince everyone there is no reason to use a cc. .

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I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.. You seem to have a very big problem with accepting the fact that people can and do live without credit cards or simply choose not to use them.. You continually point to the fact that people are unable to use them "responsibly" rather than just acknowledging the fact that for years and years people have managed to live without them by using cash.. I've yet to hear anyone on this particular thread call them "sinful" - those are your words..

We're never going to agree on this.. The people who have posted on this thread are people who have chosen to get out of debt.. People who no longer WANT to have credit card debt - for many different reasons.. They have been offered a plan to accomplish that goal.. Why do you feel it necessary to assume you know their reasoning behind those goals? Your personal situation is vastly different.. If it works for you, that's fine.. If you're comfortable with it, that's fine.. If you enjoy using credit cards, that's fine.. However, is it really that difficult for you to understand that not everyone wants or needs to live their lives in the same manner that you do? Life is all about choices and not everyone wants or needs to make the same ones..

 

[DMRick]

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However, is it really that difficult for you to understand that not everyone wants or needs to live their lives in the same manner that you do? Life is all about choices and not everyone wants or needs to make the same ones..

And why is so hard for you to understand that many people can work their way out of debt and use credit cards. Read what you just wrote, then think what you keep saying about credit cards..as if there is always something wrong with them and everyone should only use cash, like you. I happen to think people have a choice, and not feel that a good savings plan can't include a credit card. In the above instance, I just thought it was out of line to compare people not paying their credit cards off in 30 days, to using this horrible time to prove how it could happen. I hardly feel people without homes, food, clothes are worrying about the items they charged within the past 30 days, and how they will pay off this one month debt. That really hit me as a bad way to make a comparison. Hey, bad stuff could always happen, and bills not get paid for one month. If you pay with cash or cc. It doesn't mean you will suddenly be put on the bankruptcy rolls.
You are right..it's all about choices..but you keep hammering away about how cash is the only way to go..and it isn't. There is more than one way..and some people enjoy the many benefits of credit cards and if used responsibly, they can be real money makers. Not everyone on this thread is near bankrupt. Many just want to make sure they have savings, retirement funds, vacations, without a lot of debt. Credit cards can be a real savings because of the benefits, especially the rewards and extended warrenty can show that), and you can end up with more money if you use them responsibly.

 

[DMRick]

Of course I've seen the news while I was away, and I've been home for a couple of days, so I'm not sure, why you thought you should point out that maybe I didn't know what was going on. I'm still waiting and hoping to hear from a friend, so it's been hard to keep myself away from the TV, radio, newspapers. His area was hit hard.

I'm not sure how many people you think in this tragedy are standing there with cash in their hand..but believe it or not, if someone were going to Chicago, there are cash machines that work along the way. In any case, I'm not cashless, just because I use a credit card. I use the cc for benefits, but I always have cash available. It's not like I have no money. Many of us who do, also have cash in hand. I use the cc because it makes money for me. Enough that I think they can be a postivie thing. Imagine that.
Yes the cc companies are going to want there money. But you must keep skipping over that word responsible. Just like using cash (except I get benefits), I buy, I have the cash to cover it. Think about it. I charge a refrigerator. At the end of the month, I pay off the $1,000. Or I pay cash, I give them $1,000. Within the same 30 days. I earn points, and the part of the warranty that is for one year, is now for two. And the difference, other than the benefits is??? I'm not alone in this. Many people have learned to make their credit cards work for them..even on this Disney board. Many peope right on this board, pay for their vacation with credit card and then pay it off. They make their money work for them. If you are on the edge of bankruptcy, and use a cc and make minimum payments, and still use your cc to charge your vacation to Disney, then a cc isn't the smart choice. But it is all about choices. Cash isn't the only way to go for many.

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I'm sure you must have heard by now about the family that hired a limo to take them all the way from NO to Chicago, correct? With havoc going on all around them, who do you think that driver would be more likely to transport - the person standing there with cash in their hand or the person with the credit card?

I'm fully aware of the fact that there is a MAJOR tragedy going on right now and it's usually a MAJOR situation that brings the whole house of cards tumbling down on people.. You may feel I'm "using" this situation to "prove" something, but it could be any major situation that could result in the same scenario.. You know what they say - "Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.."

I guess you didn't see much of the news coverage while you were away because this has not only had an impact on the very poor people of LA, AL and MS - it's across the board.. Do you have any idea how many people have lost their jobs in addition to losing everything else they own? Do you think the credit card companies will wait indefinitely for their money? I'm sure that some (although I doubt "all") will cut them some slack for a short period of time but after that, all bets are off.. They are owed money and they are going to want it back - no if, ands or buts about it.. There's no disputing that fact..

 

[Julia M]

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I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.. You seem to have a very big problem with accepting the fact that people can and do live without credit cards or simply choose not to use them.. You continually point to the fact that people are unable to use them "responsibly" rather than just acknowledging the fact that for years and years people have managed to live without them by using cash.. I've yet to hear anyone on this particular thread call them "sinful" - those are your words..

We're never going to agree on this.. The people who have posted on this thread are people who have chosen to get out of debt.. People who no longer WANT to have credit card debt - for many different reasons.. They have been offered a plan to accomplish that goal.. Why do you feel it necessary to assume you know their reasoning behind those goals? Your personal situation is vastly different.. If it works for you, that's fine.. If you're comfortable with it, that's fine.. If you enjoy using credit cards, that's fine.. However, is it really that difficult for you to understand that not everyone wants or needs to live their lives in the same manner that you do? Life is all about choices and not everyone wants or needs to make the same ones..

C. Ann,

I haven't read through this whole thread, so excuse me if I am repeating myself. I started reading it, and realized that Dave Ramsey is probaly not for me, so didn't read everything.

But, I think for some people, it's like a diet, or alcoholism. Some people can't drink in moderation. So they give it up. I can have a couple of beers at a party, and not take a drink for a month. Or dh and I will open a bottle of wine, and drink it over a few days. No problem. But, I have issues with food. I have a terrible time eating in moderation. Since I can't give up food (like you give up alcohol), I need an eating plan for the rest of my life. I just can't do it on my own. (I follow WW)

For some people, money is their issue. They need to follow a plan. People who don't have food issues find it hard to understand why I do. Some people who have never had difficulty with money find it hard to understand why someone would have difficulty budgeting. You can't give up money, like alcohol. So having someone help you with a plan is important.

I'm not saying that everyone who follows Dave Ramsey has had money problems, don't get me wrong. And I do think what I said has validity. I have tried to look at his website, and alot of it is too rigid for me. But, we naturally pay our credit cards every month, have college funds for the kids, good savings for our retirement, save for travel (never charge it) and so on. Even when I was young and struggling and broke, I never charged more than I could effectively pay, and saved my money and so on. So, someone like me isn't going to appreciate what he has to say as much as someone who has had their life turned around by it

JMHO

julia

 

[C.Ann]

You are right..it's all about choices..but you keep hammering away about how cash is the only way to go..and it isn't..

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Because it is for the people on this particular thread who have made that choice already.. I don't know the particulars of why they have made that choice - and I wouldn't be so presumptious as to assume that they have made that choice based soley on irresponsibility with cc's.. I started this thread to encourage their efforts to live by a method they have chosen - not pass judgement on how or why they arrived at that decision..

 

[DMRick]

It is for some people on this thread. Some are getting ideas on how to save, etc. Not all are using all the same ways. Some make other choices to get there. While this thread can be helpful to many, I'm not reading where all the people on this thread have made the choice to only use cash. While you have pointed out a way that works for you, I have pointed out a way that works for others and brings extra cash and benfits. Some, believe it or not never knew about the many benefits of a cc (judging by how many have PM'd me to find out what kind of cards bring what kind of benefits)..so now they realize there is more than one way to go about making the most of their money. Many are getting good ideas about paying down debt (which a cc doesn't neccesarily have to be..a debt that is), some are learning about having a reserve savings, and some are learning about how to use cc to their benefit. Again, it's about choice. No one has to follow the entire book, it's not the only way to be debt free. And since this is posted on a "public" board, I assume those of us who don't agree 100% with this guy are allowed to comment on his suggestions and disagree with you.

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Because it is for the people on this particular thread who have made that choice already.. I don't know the particulars of why they have made that choice - and I wouldn't be so presumptious as to assume that they have made that choice based soley on irresponsibility with cc's.. I started this thread to encourage their efforts to live by a method they have chosen - not pass judgement on how or why they arrived at that decision..

 

[C.Ann]

No one has to follow the entire book, it's not the only way to be debt free. And since this is posted on a "public" board, I assume those of us who don't agree 100% with this guy are allowed to comment on his suggestions and disagree with you.

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Agreed.. So how about this? I will continue to encourage those who have already made the choice to live on a cash basis, without passing judgement on why they have made that chioce - and you can continue to offer them suggestions as to why they shouldn't, based on your assumptions of why they have made that choice to begin with..

 

[DMRick]

Just to clarify, since someone wrote me about this. You still get the benefits when you do not carry a balance.
Yes, it is best to not use a credit card if you plan on carrying a balance, and can't afford to pay it off.
However, you can have it both ways. Use the credit card, while putting aside the amount you are paying with the credit card. It's just like paying in cash, but you get the benefits. There is no difference, as long as you pay it off each month. If you have a major catasrophe that month..you would still have the cash in your checking account to pay off the credit card (you are paying after you buy, instead of while you buy). I'm not advocating charging and charging and paying a high interest rate. I'm advocating using your cc almost as cash, and earning extra money, giving yourself protection against unscrupulous sellers, points, and availablity of the extended warranty, and insurance on car rentals.

 

[DMRick]

You couldn't just say we could both encourage different ways to pay for different reasons..for those still trying to make a choice (I don't see where everyone on this list has made that choice)? Had to be a dig on the end?

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Agreed.. So how about this? I will continue to encourage those who have already made the choice to live on a cash basis, without passing judgement on why they have made that chioce - and you can continue to offer them suggestions as to why they shouldn't, based on your assumptions of why they have made that choice to begin with..

 

[C.Ann]

You couldn't just say we could both encourage different ways to pay for different reasons..for those still trying to make a choice (I don't see where everyone on this list has made that choice)? Had to be a dig on the end?

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I'm sorry if you consider that a "dig", but if you will go back and read your posts you have repeatedly stressed "irresponsibility" - in one form or another - of being the reason that people run into trouble with credit cards.. Is that the case with some people? I'm sure it is - but your suggestions and advice would be easier accepted if you didn't repeatedly focus on that one aspect.. I think the people on this thread have already had their "reality" check and are fully aware of how and why they're in trouble right now - more reasons than you and I will ever know.. Encouragement is what they're seeking at this point in time and it is encouragement that will help them reach their goals.. If you consider my pointing that out as a "dig", then I really don't know what to tell you..

 

[RichNKatHolly]

OK - I am almost through the book. Very motivational and I'm ready to go! Got all my stuff ready for the consignment shop. Have a box of things to bring to my ebay drop office. Reorganized the kitchen cabinets and inventoried my food items (hoping to purchase less with my free Grocery Game Trial).

Now, I know I should probably just cancel my trip to fast forward to step 3, but we won't do that.

I will start this week by putting $10 into a new account every week. I will not request the debit card, etc. After vacation we will try to put $100 in that account every 2 weeks and more when we can. After the next tax refund I should be done with step 3! WOW, there is an end in sight. Although, that emergency account would have come in handy this week. TV is going and refrigerator seal broke so we are using tape so we don't loose too much energy. Guess that's Mr. Murphy setting up house!!!

Anyway, I can see both points made by C.Ann and DMRick. We will all have to agree to disagree. I, for one, cannot have credit cards, but my grandparents, who were financial wizards (IMO) and retired with nearly $1 Million in assets and cash had ccs and paid them off every month. My grandfather considered it using someone else's money for a month while still earning interest on his cash in the bank.

For some that can control spending that is great. For alot of us on this thread, it is dangerous ground to even think of a cc. We need to first change our thinking. DH and I always thought of the cc as infusions of income. NOT GOOD! I still cannot trust myself to have one, even with the benefits. It is really just a personal thing for everyone.

 

[DMRick]

Actually there is a difference between being responsible and irresponsibilty. I see where I used using a credit card responsibly 5 times (I did a "contl f" and found them all) in 16 pages..I never used the word or indicated anyone on this board was irresponsible, so please don't put words in my mouth (or posts) to try to make your point. I've seen where another says she was irresponsible, and another mentioned the word responsible. I think others here know just what I mean. If you charge and charge and charge and can't pay your bill, that is not using a cc responsibly (#6 if you are counting). And there is a way to get your cake and eat it too..by using your cc for points and rewards, and yet stay out of debt. Pay it off, monthly, by having the cash set aside in your checking account. Same as using cash, but with the perks.
It was a dig, at me, and I took it personally. I never said you were wrong for using cash..I am pointing out reasons why cc can be a very good thing, for those who can pay them off monthly. Obviously it upsets you, that I think there may be a way to have it both ways..no credit card bills, and yet the rewards of a cc. If it doesn't work for someone, then they sure don't have to take my advice. It's a choice, even for those who want to follow some of hte book. People on this board are not bad if they decide it works for them to vary a bit for a good benefit. They can do whatever they feel is the most benefit for them.

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I'm sorry if you consider that a "dig", but if you will go back and read your posts you have repeatedly stressed "irresponsibility" - in one form or another - of being the reason that people run into trouble with credit cards....

 

[DMRick]

hmm..it posted twice..so I erased it.

 

[DMRick]

Wonderful points..you see what works for you with an informed choice and you do it. You aren't alone with the CC use, but at some point in your life you may be able to do as well as your grandfather by using someone elses money. It takes learned discipline to use someone elses money LOL. And you are right..it's a personal choice.
PS: if that TV (if you have to buy a new one) only has a year warrenty can you be strong enough to buy it on CC and get the extended warranty and then come home, go on line and pay it off immediately with the cash you would have used? If you come tell us you bought it, we can pester you to quickly pay it off LOL!

I, for one, cannot have credit cards, but my grandparents, who were financial wizards (IMO) and retired with nearly $1 Million in assets and cash had ccs and paid them off every month. My grandfather considered it using someone else's money for a month while still earning interest on his cash in the bank.

For some that can control spending that is great. For alot of us on this thread, it is dangerous ground to even think of a cc. We need to first change our thinking. DH and I always thought of the cc as infusions of income. NOT GOOD! I still cannot trust myself to have one, even with the benefits. It is really just a personal thing for everyone.

 

[RichNKatHolly]

Wonderful points..you see what works for you with an informed choice and you do it. You aren't alone with the CC use, but at some point in your life you may be able to do as well as your grandfather by using someone elses money. It takes learned discipline to use someone elses money LOL. And you are right..it's a personal choice.
PS: if that TV (if you have to buy a new one) only has a year warrenty can you be strong enough to buy it on CC and get the extended warranty and then come home, go on line and pay it off immediately with the cash you would have used? If you come tell us you bought it, we can pester you to quickly pay it off LOL!

LOL - I would need much pestering! Luckily, this TV is about 13 years old. I will purchase another tube television as a Christmas gift for the family for less than $400 (hopefully, the old one makes it until then). They are actually low priced enough that I can use my little CC to pay for it (probably should have mentioned I do have 1 with a very small limit which we use for car rental, when they raise the limit I call and tell them to lower it) When I use the cc I usually pay the amount I'm going to spend BEFORE the purchase. Then for a few hours or days my cc balance is -$xxx. Do all ccs offer the extended warranty thing? I've really never heard of it.

I will hope and pray that I will be ina position one day to be able to use the benefits of ccs, but for now I will be fine without it and just use my debit. Some of them have points and mileage too, but not mine. I think though, that I will always be afraid to fall back into a cc hole. BUT, I have no problems with anyone who uses them, it is a personal choice.

 

[DMRick]

Do all ccs offer the extended warranty thing? I've really never heard of it.

Most gold/silver or platinum..not the plain ones. Call your cc company and ask. It's usually in the little paper that comes with the card and once a year, that most of us don't read. Ours (we have 4 with the extended warranty, because of various types of points and money back) even covers if I trip on the stairs bringing the purchase into the house, or if someone steals my new purchase out of the car, while I finish shopping (you need a police report for that one LOL).

 

[RichNKatHolly]

Most gold/silver or platinum..not the plain ones. Call your cc company and ask. It's usually in the little paper that comes with the card and once a year, that most of us don't read. Ours (we have 4 with the extended warranty, because of various types of points and money back) even covers if I trip on the stairs bringing the purchase into the house, or if someone steals my new purchase out of the car, while I finish shopping (you need a police report for that one LOL).

Thanks for the info. I doubt I'm gold/silver worthy just yet, but getting there I'll check with my company anyway.

 

[DMRick]

A lot of people get that gold and up, just because they have had credit and used it LOL. Funny how that works, eh?

Thanks for the info. I doubt I'm gold/silver worthy just yet, but getting there I'll check with my company anyway.

 

[C.Ann]

It was a dig, at me, and I took it personally..

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If you choose to take it as a "dig", there's nothing I can say that will change your mind.. I stated my reasons for starting and continuing this thread - to encourage people who are leaning towards a different financial mind set than yours - that of using cash as opposed to cc's.. If somewhere among these many threads you encouraged people to do the same, I totally missed it..

You are obviously a staunch supporter of credit cards and do seem to have quite a bit of knowledge in how to make credit cards work for those who choose to use them, so why not start a thread of just that nature - "How To Make Your Credit Cards Work For You"? It would be of great service to those who share your views and I'll even promise not to post on it!

Meanwhile, the earth isn't going to come to a screeching halt if people choose cash over credit cards and a little encouragement will go a long way in helping them to reach their goals.. If my biggest crime in life is encouraging people who have made a very doable and workable choice in terms of how they handle their money, then I'd say I don't have to worry about spending time in the slammer for it any time soon..