TOT Incident on News

[tink2dw]

I bumped into a site one time that said when your pic does not come up at the rides it is because someone has lifted a shirt to the camera or done something obscene!

 

[disney-super-mom]

Situations like this always bother me. How can you prove or disprove the allegations? A real "he said she said" situation. Just because the allegation was made does not make it true.
Just saying you already have convicted the guy, with no evidence other than her statement.

Well that's just super. As a matter of fact, all the people who want to grope someone should go ride the TOT....the perfect spot to commit a crime because there is no way to prove or disprove it. And sorry, nope, that picture of you with a stunned faced and the alleged groper's outstretched claw towards you is worth crap. Certainly NOT evidence that any crime was committed or could've possibly happened.

Heck, I can think of several rides the gropers could victimize people on and never get convicted because the only evidence would be one person's word against another's.

Disneyland.....a groper's "magical" paradise.

 

[Peace.love.mickey]

You know you can say what you'd do but honestly, you never know until it's happening to you. I can tell you with absolute honesty that they are 2 very different experiences. Besides it doesn't say she took a pic with her cell, it says she informed the CM and they provided the photo to the police, it also says she has a copy of the photo. Yes the photos are only up for everyone to see for a few minutes but the parks keep them for a while. We had a photo taken 1 trip and decided the NEXT DAY to buy it, we took the photo number to the CM and she pulled it right up, no problems at all. So they do keep the photos on file for at at least a day.

If you read the this article it says she DID take it with her cell phone.....

 

[DizMe]

You have to look at this from all sides. Suppose someone thought it would, for whatever reason, be amusing/empowering/good retribution to accuse someone of a lewd act on a ride when there was nothing but that person's word to support it? What is the company supposed to do, arrest the accused without just cause? This is a very unfortunate incident but you simply can't allow one person's testimony to result in punishment without sufficient evidence to support the claim. I don't know the details of this particular case but I've not seen anything that shows the actual groping, and if the woman did not report this until after everyone got off the ride, then the options are very limited. Why would anyone, guilty or not, wait around after riding TOT? It's possible--not saying it happened, but it is theoretically possible that the woman could have concocted a story around the picture. What if your husband, brother, boyfriend, whatever was in a picture like that and his face was splashed all over the news because some woman wanted a little attention? Again, I'm not saying that was the case here, but it could happen that way. If we want the law to protect the innocent, then we have to be quite sure of guilt before we assign blame.

 

[DanT]

thank you well said

 

[FlameGirl]

You have to look at this from all sides. Suppose someone thought it would, for whatever reason, be amusing/empowering/good retribution to accuse someone of a lewd act on a ride when there was nothing but that person's word to support it? What is the company supposed to do, arrest the accused without just cause? This is a very unfortunate incident but you simply can't allow one person's testimony to result in punishment without sufficient evidence to support the claim. I don't know the details of this particular case but I've not seen anything that shows the actual groping, and if the woman did not report this until after everyone got off the ride, then the options are very limited. Why would anyone, guilty or not, wait around after riding TOT? It's possible--not saying it happened, but it is theoretically possible that the woman could have concocted a story around the picture. What if your husband, brother, boyfriend, whatever was in a picture like that and his face was splashed all over the news because some woman wanted a little attention? Again, I'm not saying that was the case here, but it could happen that way. If we want the law to protect the innocent, then we have to be quite sure of guilt before we assign blame.

So...just to be clear...are you saying she should just let this incident go?

Because you introduced a hypothetical (she thought it would be fun to implicate an innocent man) I will too.

What if he was masturbating on the ride? No one saw it but her? Should she let it go then? What if she had been underage? What if she had been underage and he rubbed his ***** on her in line? And no one saw?

Again, he is wanted for questioning. That is not "punishment"...it's how our legal system works. They question him. They question the jacka** behind them clapping and laughing. They look at his criminal record to see if he's done this before. Not just prior convictions, but previous incidents that went without an arrest because, as you put it, there was nothing but that person's word to support it.

Could she have made this up out of spite or boredom? I suppose. But enough women are victims of this type of crime so often that I certainly wouldn't advise my daughter to just let it go unless she's able to collect some DNA.

 

[Peace.love.mickey]

I think the thing that bothers me the most is she did not say anything to anyone working there until after she saw the pic AND she took a pic with her cell phone! Still sucks no matter what....I just hope we all learn...if we are feeling violated..SCREAM! Tell a CM right away...like before they unlatch!

 

[jimsocks]

The message here should be - shout at the top of your lungs at the time this type of thing happens. These creeps operate in darkness and are counting on anonymity...And, DO make a scene. Not because it's easy, but because it's difficult.

You may be saving the next victim a similar fate.

As the father of two young girls, not only would I step in to help, I'd be grateful for your courage.

 

[FlameGirl]

I think the thing that bothers me the most is she did not say anything to anyone working there until after she saw the pic AND she took a pic with her cell phone!

The brain is a funny thing. But this makes perfect sense to me. Shock first, denial second, then when she saw the picture, she knew she wasn't crazy and making up the whole scenario.

After 9/11, like RIGHT after it happened, I was in (as was the rest of the world) complete shock. And then I was worried I was going to be late for work, and that I was probably overreacting to what had just happened. Overreacting. To the murder of 3,000 people. Once I got to work and everyone there was in tears, it hit me that I wasn't crazy.

I have no way of knowing if this is actually what transpired with this particular woman that day, but it doesn't bother me if this is indeed the course of action she took. It makes complete sense to me.

 

[DanT]

So...just to be clear...are you saying she should just let this incident go?

Because you introduced a hypothetical (she thought it would be fun to implicate an innocent man) I will too.

What if he was masturbating on the ride? No one saw it but her? Should she let it go then? What if she had been underage? What if she had been underage and he rubbed his ***** on her in line? And no one saw?

Again, he is wanted for questioning. That is not "punishment"...it's how our legal system works. They question him. They question the jacka** behind them clapping and laughing. They look at his criminal record to see if he's done this before. Not just prior convictions, but previous incidents that went without an arrest because, as you put it, there was nothing but that person's word to support it.

Could she have made this up out of spite or boredom? I suppose. But enough women are victims of this type of crime so often that I certainly wouldn't advise my daughter to just let it go unless she's able to collect some DNA.

so now the guy behind them clapping laughing is a Jack...?
everyone on the ride that was laughing and having a good time was in on it?
just gets better all the time....

 

[FlameGirl]

so now the guy behind them clapping laughing is a Jack...?
everyone on the ride that was laughing and having a good time was in on it?
just gets better all the time....

The second article posted stated that the two men were in line together and leering at the woman. Once he started groping her, his buddy laughed and egged him on. So yeah, according to the statement, I stand by my assessment that he is a jacka**.

 

[FlameGirl]

everyone on the ride that was laughing and having a good time was in on it?

Do not put words in my mouth.

 

[DanT]

guess from now on when I go on a ride at DL or DCA I will make sure not to laugh, smile or clap during or at the end of a ride....
I still believe that if you were violated, you would react immediately...
I am pretty sure my wife or my two grown daughters would...

 

[FlameGirl]

guess from now on when I go on a ride at DL or DCA I will make sure not to laugh, smile or clap during or at the end of a ride....
I still believe that if you were violated, you would react immediately...
I am pretty sure my wife or my two grown daughters would...

Super. Well then let's all hope this guy can be identified so you can take him out for a beer and clap him on the back for his troubles.

I'm pretty sure I won't hear a more intelligent well stated argument all day.

 

[DanT]

I am not supporting the guy or the lady....
just saying that there is no way to prove or disprove the incident happened as reported.
Yes the picture looks suspicious, but it does not prove the allegation.
Sorry if it did happen...just don't see any way for this lady to prove it did.
And I don't drink beer....now who is putting words in someone's mouth?

 

[FlameGirl]

And I don't drink beer....now who is putting words in someone's mouth?

Zing! Ohhhhh, you win this round, DanT. Man.

 

[DanT]

OK, I am done with this...will be watching to see if the fellow in the pic is questioned and what the out come might be.
guess it is time to get back to discussing the brighter side of DLR

 

[Amy and kids]

The brain is a funny thing. But this makes perfect sense to me. Shock first, denial second, then when she saw the picture, she knew she wasn't crazy and making up the whole scenario.

I can totally see that that would be me if in that sort of situation.

NO ONE knows how they would act in any certain situation until it happens to you! To say with certainty that you would do such and such doesn't mean that is what you would actually end up doing when it comes right down to it.

 

[DizMe]

So...just to be clear...are you saying she should just let this incident go?

Because you introduced a hypothetical (she thought it would be fun to implicate an innocent man) I will too.

What if he was masturbating on the ride? No one saw it but her? Should she let it go then? What if she had been underage? What if she had been underage and he rubbed his ***** on her in line? And no one saw?

Again, he is wanted for questioning. That is not "punishment"...it's how our legal system works. They question him. They question the jacka** behind them clapping and laughing. They look at his criminal record to see if he's done this before. Not just prior convictions, but previous incidents that went without an arrest because, as you put it, there was nothing but that person's word to support it.

Could she have made this up out of spite or boredom? I suppose. But enough women are victims of this type of crime so often that I certainly wouldn't advise my daughter to just let it go unless she's able to collect some DNA.

No, I'm not saying she should let the incident go. I think reporting it was the right thing to do, though when it comes so long after the fact, as I said, it limits the options as the likelihood of questioning the man in a timely manner is practically nil. I do understand that shock, denial, and embarrassment can all contribute to waiting to report such a thing, but then you are faced with a significantly lower chance of catching the guy. Maybe she was focused on getting a look at the picture and using it as evidence, but in retrospect it would have been better to call it to the attention of the ride CM immediately. There are any number of things I've wished I'd done differently so I know that you aren't always doing the best thing at the time; nevertheless, you have to accept that if you did not use the best judgment in a given situation, you may not be able to achieve the outcome you'd like.

That does not make it a failure, however. Our discussion here shows that many of us are now thinking what we might do in like circumstances, so forewarned is forearmed. Thanks to the reports in the news, I'm more savy about how to react in that kind of situation.

I have more to say but I'm on my way to visit my dad so I'll have to post later.

 

[FlameGirl]

No, I'm not saying she should let the incident go. I think reporting it was the right thing to do, though when it comes so long after the fact, as I said, it limits the options as the likelihood of questioning the man in a timely manner is practically nil.

Maybe...maybe not. His face is plastered all over the internet now, there isn't an unheard of chance that someone could recognize him (a scorned girlfriend, perhaps? Now that would be kind of funny).

What if they find him and it turns out that he's a registered sex offender? That would make an arrest a bit more swift, I'd be willing to bet. You never know. Lots and lots of people are convicted of and sentenced to prison on nothing but circumstantial evidence. There are convicted murderers on death row that have been put there by circumstantial evidence. You just never know.