Today I love the IRS

[RadioFanatic]

C. Ann, no, I don't find that acceptable either.

 

[Bob Slydell]

With the exception of the OP, I haven't seen anyone "degrading" people who receive EIC. And all the arguments for and against EIC in general are just that -- arguing about a tax law, not the people who receive or don't receive those benefits.

And calling EIC a welfare payment is not a denegration of anyone -- it's a fact. EIC is a welfare payment -- take the terminology however you might want to. I don't think anyone stated that welfare was a derogatory term.

 

[dvcgirl]

With the exception of the OP, I haven't seen anyone "degrading" people who receive EIC. And all the arguments for and against EIC in general are just that -- arguing about a tax law, not the people who receive or don't receive those benefits.

And calling EIC a welfare payment is not a denegration of anyone -- it's a fact. EIC is a welfare payment -- take the terminology however you might want to. I don't think anyone stated that welfare was a derogatory term.

But it really isn't a welfare payment. Look at earnings as a bell curve....from say...1,000 a year in income right on up to say...125,000 a year. Those making roughly 35K a year or less, well, for their income they are paying too high a percentage into SS and Medicare. And so someone making whatever the mimimum is to qualify....gets the largest "refund" of that percentage back. They paid too much in for what they make. 35k to 90K is taken as a percentage of what they earn. Once you get above 90K, well, we've paid our full share and the government is never going to be able to give all of that SS and Medicare back...and our burden is over.

Again, as for people flaunting it. I can't help but feel sorry for that person. Anyone who is spending big money on LCD TVS, speakers, conceirge at the GF....while living off of student loans and making very little income. Well, clearly their financial priorities are out of whack and unfortunately, that will come back to haunt them down the road.

So much of personal finance comes down to values. And if what you value is "stuff" that you can't afford even in the most liberal sense of the argument...well, it's sad quite frankly.

 

[Bob Slydell]

But it really isn't a welfare payment. Look at earnings as a bell curve....from say...1,000 a year in income right on up to say...125,000 a year. Those making roughly 35K a year or less, well, for their income they are paying too high a percentage into SS and Medicare. And so someone making whatever the mimimum is to qualify....gets the largest "refund" of that percentage back. They paid too much in for what they make. 35k to 90K is taken as a percentage of what they earn. Once you get above 90K, well, we've paid our full share and the government is never going to be able to give all of that SS and Medicare back...and our burden is over.

I agree in terms of those who are receiving EIC to balance out their percentage of what they've paid of SS/Medicare taxes, but when EIC (and other credits) creates a situation where a taxpayer receives a refund that's greater than the amount of taxes they've paid in, that's a welfare payment.

 

[froglady]

But it really isn't a welfare payment. Look at earnings as a bell curve....from say...1,000 a year in income right on up to say...125,000 a year. Those making roughly 35K a year or less, well, for their income they are paying too high a percentage into SS and Medicare. And so someone making whatever the mimimum is to qualify....gets the largest "refund" of that percentage back. They paid too much in for what they make. 35k to 90K is taken as a percentage of what they earn. Once you get above 90K, well, we've paid our full share and the government is never going to be able to give all of that SS and Medicare back...and our burden is over.

.

QUOTE]

When those people paying "too high a percentage" into SS and Medicare now retire, they will receive monthly/health benefits based on today's contributions based on a percentage of their income, NOT their income after the IEC. So in effect, they will be getting back far more than they put in, and are also getting money back now.

 

[dvcgirl]

I agree in terms of those who are receiving EIC to balance out their percentage of what they've paid of SS/Medicare taxes, but when EIC (and other credits) creates a situation where a taxpayer receives a refund that's greater than the amount of taxes they've paid in, that's a welfare payment.

Well, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this . Welfare is for people who are not working. The EIC is only for people who are working. Again, is it 100% fair, well, obviously lots of people have a problem with it. And to be honest, I guess that I would too if I was right over the cut-off earnings-wise. Objectively, they have to pick someplace to cut the EIC, and I suppose that roughly 10K under the median US household income seemed to be the chosen sweet spot.

I think what is making so many people upset, is not that the OP is getting the EIC, but where she's spending it. In my view however, in that respect she's no different than the millions and millions of Amercians living far above their means and running up consumer debt for things that they don't need.

 

[phorsenuf]

Definition of welfare;

wel·fare Audio pronunciation of "welfare" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wlfâr)
n.

1.
1. Health, happiness, and good fortune; well-being.
2. Prosperity.
2. Welfare work.
3.
1. Financial or other aid provided, especially by the government, to people in need.
2. Corporate welfare.

I think that sums it up. So even tho some people feel the term welfare is derogatory, I guess it's all in how you "see" welfare recipiants in your mind. the definiton of welfare is pretty cut and dry.

 

[Alicnwondrln]

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If you haven't degraded anyone, that's great - but that certainly isn't the history of the EIC threads that have been on this board before..

As for how one spends their money, as long as it's obtained legally, it's really no ones business.. Often you will see people post on here about numerous trips to Disney, long stays at the deluxe resorts, expensive gas-guzzling cars and then those very same people are looking for ways to "hide" money or "shift" money so their children can get tuition and grants to pay for a good portion of their college educations at some of the best colleges in the country.. That seems to be perfectly acceptable though - doesn't it?

id say no its probably not acceptable but i havent seen a thread about people doing that

 

[Bob Slydell]

Well, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this . Welfare is for people who are not working. The EIC is only for people who are working. Again, is it 100% fair, well, obviously lots of people have a problem with it. And to be honest, I guess that I would too if I was right over the cut-off earnings-wise. Objectively, they have to pick someplace to cut the EIC, and I suppose that roughly 10K under the median US household income seemed to be the chosen sweet spot.

I guess we'll have to disagree then, specifically on the meaning of welfare. Traditional welfare is for those not working, but the concept of welfare (thanks phoresnuf ) is not just about those not working. And I don't think it's necessarily people just above the cut-off line who's upset, but rather people who are not happy with the tax system in place in general.

 

[dvcgirl]

I guess we'll have to disagree then, specifically on the meaning of welfare. Traditional welfare is for those not working, but the concept of welfare (thanks phoresnuf ) is not just about those not working. And I don't think it's necessarily people just above the cut-off line who's upset, but rather people who are not happy with the tax system in place in general.

Right, well, you'll get no argument from me on the dysfunction of the US Tax code. Personally, I'd love to see a flat tax. Doubt we'll ever see that though.....

 

[Alicnwondrln]

there are always going to be people who cheat the system, or work within its limits to get things and then take advantage of it
theres nothing i can do about it, but if i am doing that I aint broadcasting it

 

[dvcgirl]

there are always going to be people who cheat the system, or work within its limits to get things and then take advantage of it
theres nothing i can do about it, but if i am doing that I aint broadcasting it

That's a valid point Alic...I'd chalk it up mostly to immaturity.

 

[BuckNaked]

I do have a question though - for those who feel the need to use terms that degrade people who receive the EIC (and yet are receiving it themselves because they are military families or whatever) how are you going to spend your glorified welfare check?? Does it make you feel good to be referred to in that manner?

I haven't seen anyone that was trying to degrade anyone, military or otherwise.

You seem to be confusing refunds due to excess withholding with EITC refunds, which are completely different animals.

 

[Alicnwondrln]

That's a valid point Alic...I'd chalk it up mostly to immaturity.

as would i and sometimes when you have nothing its hard to spend that money on things you want vs will need later i said it for years to my sister
it still hasnt changed
it drives my nuts

 

[C.Ann]

I haven't seen anyone that was trying to degrade anyone, military or otherwise.

You seem to be confusing refunds due to excess withholding with EITC refunds, which are completely different animals.

-----------------------------------------

No - I don't believe I am confused at all.. I just don't care for the terminology.. The term "welfare" is normally associated with people that choose not to work - choose to sit home and have one baby after another - and milk the system for all it's worth.. While that isn't always the case, the percentages of people that choose to live that way seem to be quite high..

Earned Income Credit is just that - earned income credit.. To refer to it as a "glorified welfare check" is a poor choice of words IMO.. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree..

As to the original OP of this thread - I don't know her entire personal and financial situation so I'll refrain from passing judgement on her..

 

[BuckNaked]

-----------------------------------------

No - I don't believe I am confused at all..

Then why are you equating tax refunds due to overpayment with EITC refunds?

 

[C.Ann]

Then why are you equating tax refunds due to overpayment with EITC refunds?

------------------------------

I'm not..

 

[Alicnwondrln]

i think we all have to agree to disagree

 

[disneymom3]

Perhaps some of these people who are criticising so freely would do well to recall that phrase, "There but for the grace of God go I.." One never knows when life is going to throw them a curve ball and they're going to find themselves in the exact same position..

C.Ann--I think that on just about every finances thread that comes along. You have your folks who think that any kind of credit card debt is like you are satan incarnate. Now, I don't think credit card debt is good obviously and I wouldn't be charging a cruise or a trip to WDW but if it comes down to feeding my kids or paying the credit card bill in full, you can bet it's feeding my kids that wins. It's not always possible to cut your budget to the point where you can live that way. I have been there and do thank God that I no longer am. The judging gets really old.

 

[mudnuri]

The Grand Floridian part of my post was a joke we stay value...

Brandy