To Tip or Not To Tip (long)

[Pooh Bear Hugs]

Funny story about tipping (I know I know, alot of people hate this thread, but I just thought I'd share...) When we were at Tusker House for the buffet breakfast a couple weeks ago, we asked for the bill and my DH gave the waitress his KTTW card (we were on the DDP). She asked if he wanted to add in anything for gratuity and he said "No we're all set", b/c he was leaving cash. She assumed that meant he wasn't going to tip her, and brought him this little printed card, which told all about how it is customary to tip WDW servers, even at buffets, etc etc. He then explained that he was leaving cash and pointed to the $15 he left on the table. It was an honest misunderstanding, but he was totally put off by it!

We tipped mousekeeping $10 while we were there b/c they only came once. It was just the quickie trash service at the villas and they left us some more coffee packets...I don't think they did anything else.

If someone brought me a card explaining tipping the would kiss goodbye to their tip.

 

[amandals2007]

ive been a seasonal waitress for 3 summers now(golf course and we close for 2 months in the winter and are slow in the spring and fall) and I work my butt off to get the tips i get. but i do not think i will ever understand these two things:
1.) why people tip the "proper" amount at disney buffets. i could be wrong so pleease dont bash me i am here to see if someone knows this. at least at my resturant, when we do buffets, we expect to not make as much becuase we do not have to take an order or serve them. we do have to set up an area for a buffet at my place of work since we dont do it all the time and the customers know that so they do tip us for that. but at disney buffets they do not have to set anything up, they just get your drink order and clear your plate and they think they should get 20%. i dont think they should because buffets are usually more and i give them less because the bill is already higher than normal and they did less work.
2.)why people tip mousekeeping. we only get towel animals the first night. and that is their job. why get tipped for doing it? you get tipped for over the top things. one of my adult family members is a head secretary at a nursing home, and she does things that are over the top and makes the families and the people staying there feel like home and she doesnt get tipped. i dont see why they get a tip.

 

[dbriggsq]

A couple of quotes from an article in the Wall Street Journal

When tipping first caught on in the U.S., late in the 19th century, it was the old-world, aristocratic overtones of the practice that drew the most ire. An 1897 editorial in the New York Times declared tipping to be the "vilest of imported vices." The paper lamented not only that "we have men among us servile enough to accept their earnings in this form" but that others were willing "to reward the servility." Joining the chorus against "flunkyism," the Washington Post denounced tipping as "one of the most insidious and one of the most malignant evils" of modern life. Tipping was seen to foster a lord-and-vassal relationship that the prouder professions resisted. Well into the 1910s many bartenders refused gratuities as an insult to their status.

and

We Americans see ourselves as generous -- we each want to tip a bit more than the average guy. Thus the actual average creeps ever higher. Not long ago, an 18% restaurant tip was a tad better than the 15% that was expected. Now I don't know anyone who tips less than 20%. Soon we'll feel the need to show our generosity by leaving 25% of the tab. Generous? No. But economically sound. It's not that we tip waiters because they are paid so little; they are paid so little because they can expect to make up the difference in tips.

I think this sums up a lot of what I feel about the practice of tipping - it's old-fashioned and outdated and in a civilized society no employer should be allowed to get away with paying their employees a pittance and expect their customers to make up the difference. The fact that the practice is spreading to many other areas of society is iniquitous - I feel embarrassed pressing money into someone else's hand as a reward for a service - just as I would feel embarrassed if someone tried to press money into my hand. It seems to reinforce a 'master/servant' relationship which is unhealthy in a professional situation.

It causes a lot of uncertainty, confusion and embarrassment. Just one example - I was staying at SSR last year on a solo trip and was transferring to OKW - as I was checking out bell services said they would get someone to drive me over there in a golf cart. This would have been a lovely trip through the resort on a sunny morning except that the whole way I was worrying whether I should tip this lovely dignified older gentleman and if so, how much. I ended up mumbling something and handing over $5 - wondering for the rest of the day if I had offended him. What a shame that a nice encounter between two people should be spoiled by the exchange of money. He was after all doing his job.

To give tips regularly to people who work in 'non-tipped' positions could have the effect that the management sees the opportunity to keep those positions at a lower pay level than they otherwise might have been. It also often is not given to reward good service but the make the giver feel better about themselves.

 

[mariepapa]

ive been a seasonal waitress for 3 summers now(golf course and we close for 2 months in the winter and are slow in the spring and fall) and I work my butt off to get the tips i get. but i do not think i will ever understand these two things:
1.) why people tip the "proper" amount at disney buffets. i could be wrong so pleease dont bash me i am here to see if someone knows this. at least at my resturant, when we do buffets, we expect to not make as much becuase we do not have to take an order or serve them. we do have to set up an area for a buffet at my place of work since we dont do it all the time and the customers know that so they do tip us for that. but at disney buffets they do not have to set anything up, they just get your drink order and clear your plate and they think they should get 20%. i dont think they should because buffets are usually more and i give them less because the bill is already higher than normal and they did less work.
2.)why people tip mousekeeping. we only get towel animals the first night. and that is their job. why get tipped for doing it? you get tipped for over the top things. one of my adult family members is a head secretary at a nursing home, and she does things that are over the top and makes the families and the people staying there feel like home and she doesnt get tipped. i dont see why they get a tip.

1) At Tusker House for dinner we happened to have the best server we had our whole stay. We made sure to tip well because he was just wonderful.
2) I don't think towel animals are their job? It is an extra and not everyone gets these extras. I know we did not but it seems the people next door to us did. I guess because they tipped and we did not. Had the mousekeeper brought us the towels we asked for maybe she would have deserved the tip!

 

[steph73]

I am puzzled though that whenever there is a tipping discussion (here or elsewhere), I frequently see servers or ex-servers pointing out how little salary they make and how they depend on tips. While that may be true, I never see anyone complain about the restaurant's decisions to pay such a measly salary, and how that decision puts them at the whim of of a good or bad tippper.

While I understand your point, there is no way to know how much each individual restaurant owner pays their employees. I work in a chain restaurant now and make "server minimum wage". My mom works in a privately ownd restaurant and makes more in wages than I do.

Do I think servers should make more? In Canada anyway, not really. The fact is that we make way more in tips than we do in wages. If our wages increased there wouldnt be a change in how people tip, we would just be making more. I guess what I am trying to say it that the two are seperate from each other. If you go to a restaurant and somehow knew your server was paid 11.00 an hour, would you tip less because of it??

I guess my point was that people will always point out that servers make low wages in support for tipping generously. It's not the customer's fault that the wages are low, it's the restaurant's decision and the employees that agree to that. I get that's how our system operates, I just disagree with it I guess.

I also tend to agree with the poster that said basing tips on the total bill amount is sketchy at best. If I order a salad and a water, the server isn't doing any more or less work than if I order a more expensive entree and a glass of wine, really. But it's customary to base tips on the total tab.

But I'm all talk, I do tip and I usually tip quite well. My sister has been a server for years, and she seems to love her work even though for me, personally, it would stress me out to never really know what kind of income you will make and that it's basically up to the generosity (or lack thereof) of the customer.

Moving on... I do see many people (including myself) say that they don't tip the same at a buffet as they do a full service restaurant. I know for me, I tend to tip anywhere from 15-20% at a TS, more if warranted, rarely less (about 15% seems to be my personal floor with what I feel comfortable). I'm never quite sure how to tip at a buffet. What do other people do? 10%? 15% Less? What is "standard"?

About Mousekeeping, we're planning on making up the daily tip envelopes and leaving $3-$5 a day. We also always tip for drinks at a bar, generally $1 per drink. We generally take care of our own luggage, but will tip a minimum of $5 if we use assistance, more if there are several bags or they are very heavy.

Tipping is a strange thing... I think many of us wonder if we're doing it "right", so I for one appreciate threads like this.

 

[Halbleib1]

I know this has been discussed before, but I wanted to start a fresh discussion and share my thoughts. Our family is taking a trip in June, and I just want to feel prepared and do what is right.

Let me preface this discussion by saying that I've held several jobs in my lifetime where I depended on tips to pay my bills. I've waitressed and spent 7 years in young adulthood working in a casino as a card and dice dealer. In each of those jobs the company paid me minimum wage with a pitiful yearly raise even with stellar employee reviews. Were it not for my tips, I simply could not have made a living.

Having said that, when I believe service warrents it, I am a very good tipper. However, I also believe that there are now some folks who either think they deserve tips, or even ask for them (tip jar at the register) who shouldn't necessarily receive them.

A good example is in an ice cream store where the employee scoops my ice cream. How does that warrent a tip? How are they providing me with beyond the call of duty, excellent service. Frankly I find tip jars to be extremely offensive. This is true in a coffee shop as well. Why am I tipping somebody who pours me a cup of coffee? If you disagree with me on this one, I'm interested to hear the argument. I might be missing something.





Now..my list for Disney World employees:

Tip Worthy

-The bus driver who loads and unloads my luggage for the Magic Express ride. He/She is doing extra work so that I can relax. And it is common knowledge that this is a tipping job. Some of those drivers go out of their way to make our first Disney experience extremely pleasant. 1 dollar a bag? or more?

-Cocktails at an bar/pool lounge etc. This is a no brainer. Bartenders work for tips. I generally tip .50-1.00 per drink.

Waiters in a restaurant/AND buffet. This is also a no brainer. I'm not sure the buffet folks always get tipped. My husband and I always leave something on the table for the person who served our drinks and cleaned up.

-Cab Drivers. We don't really use this service, but if we did, we'd tip about 10 percent of the fare.

Bell Hops. This too, is a no brainer. They work for tips. I'm not certain of the proper tip, though. $1 per bag? or $2? Just not sure.


No Tip

(unless provided with exceptional service above and beyond the call of duty)

-Housekeeping. This is the one that I think may raise the most eyebrows. We don't generally tip and I'll tell you why. Housekeeping comes in, cleans my room and leaves. This is their job. They don't interact with me and generally my family is pretty clean and does not leave them any extra mess. I'd be curious to hear info about their hourly wage as this might change my mind on this issue. But if they are getting paid 7 to 10 dollars an hour as are most other non tipped cast members, I don't believe this should be a tipping position.

-Bus drivers that take folks from resorts to parks. I don't believe this is meant to be a tipping position. There is one example, however where my husband tipped one gentleman. We had arrived at MK and realized that we left our park entry tickets in our room. DH had to catch the next bus back and retrieve them. The nice fellow who picked him up actually waited for him at the bus stop while he ran to our room to get our tickets. DH tipped him 10 dollars and was very thankful for not having to wait for the next bus.

-Food court employees. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

-Restroom attendents.

If anyone wants to add to either list, I'd be interested to hear what you have to say. Thanks for any input.

From what I have read here on the boards housekeeping is not a tipped position at Disney World.

Food Court employees are no different than any fast food place outside of Disney World so no need to tip.

The bus drivers to and from the parks are not a tipped position either. It is a service provided by Disney for resort guests. You have paid for that service in your room fee. I do not see these buses as any different than the city buses outside of Disney World. You would not normally tip a city bus driver.

Magical Express is a little different if they are handling your luggage. If you only have carry-ons I would not tip. On the other hand if you have all your luggage with you it is typical to tip.

Restroom attendants are usually tipped if they provide you with a service beyond cleaning. For example: I was in a hotel once with an attendant that had a basket of items such as tylenol/perfume/etc. If you get something from them than I would tip something.

If anyone in any of these tipped positions asks me directly for a tip than sorry I am not tipping because it is just plain rude to be asking people for a tip. I have had this happen on a few different occasions at Disney World. And I am not refering to the receipts that they give now in restaurants. (Although I find that rude as well. A tip is not a requirement and therefore they should not be asking for a specific amount.) I am refering to the person verbally asking me.

 

[steph73]

A couple of quotes from an article in the Wall Street Journal

When tipping first caught on in the U.S., late in the 19th century, it was the old-world, aristocratic overtones of the practice that drew the most ire. An 1897 editorial in the New York Times declared tipping to be the "vilest of imported vices." The paper lamented not only that "we have men among us servile enough to accept their earnings in this form" but that others were willing "to reward the servility." Joining the chorus against "flunkyism," the Washington Post denounced tipping as "one of the most insidious and one of the most malignant evils" of modern life. Tipping was seen to foster a lord-and-vassal relationship that the prouder professions resisted. Well into the 1910s many bartenders refused gratuities as an insult to their status.

and

We Americans see ourselves as generous -- we each want to tip a bit more than the average guy. Thus the actual average creeps ever higher. Not long ago, an 18% restaurant tip was a tad better than the 15% that was expected. Now I don't know anyone who tips less than 20%. Soon we'll feel the need to show our generosity by leaving 25% of the tab. Generous? No. But economically sound. It's not that we tip waiters because they are paid so little; they are paid so little because they can expect to make up the difference in tips.

I think this sums up a lot of what I feel about the practice of tipping - it's old-fashioned and outdated and in a civilized society no employer should be allowed to get away with paying their employees a pittance and expect their customers to make up the difference. The fact that the practice is spreading to many other areas of society is iniquitous - I feel embarrassed pressing money into someone else's hand as a reward for a service - just as I would feel embarrassed if someone tried to press money into my hand. It seems to reinforce a 'master/servant' relationship which is unhealthy in a professional situation.

It causes a lot of uncertainty, confusion and embarrassment. Just one example - I was staying at SSR last year on a solo trip and was transferring to OKW - as I was checking out bell services said they would get someone to drive me over there in a golf cart. This would have been a lovely trip through the resort on a sunny morning except that the whole way I was worrying whether I should tip this lovely dignified older gentleman and if so, how much. I ended up mumbling something and handing over $5 - wondering for the rest of the day if I had offended him. What a shame that a nice encounter between two people should be spoiled by the exchange of money. He was after all doing his job.

To give tips regularly to people who work in 'non-tipped' positions could have the effect that the management sees the opportunity to keep those positions at a lower pay level than they otherwise might have been. It also often is not given to reward good service but the make the giver feel better about themselves.

I couldn't possibly agree more with this. This is what I've been trying to say, but you've stated it much more eloquently.

 

[Halbleib1]

Maybe you don't realize that server's only get paid $2.35 an hour..........I have been a server for 11yrs. and a darn good one. I try my hardest to make sure everyone that I serve has a WONDERFUL experence. There is no way I could take care of my family only making $2.35 an hour. I LIVE off of my tips. I truley belive that most people THINK that servers make minimum wage......WE DON'T!!!!!!!!!

Read your ferderal tax return book. By federal law servers and anyone else in a tipped position have to be paid at least a minimum wage. If they did not make enough in tips than their employer is supposed to pay them the difference between what they actually made in both tips and hourly wage and what the minimum wage is. If the tips provided above the minimum wage than fine but if not than the employer is on the line for the rest. Because even if you do not receive minimum wage through hourly wage and tips you still have to claim that you did as income on your federal tax return. So it is the employees fault if they do not make sure that they are being paid correctly.

 

[Ember]

Funny story about tipping (I know I know, alot of people hate this thread, but I just thought I'd share...) When we were at Tusker House for the buffet breakfast a couple weeks ago, we asked for the bill and my DH gave the waitress his KTTW card (we were on the DDP). She asked if he wanted to add in anything for gratuity and he said "No we're all set", b/c he was leaving cash. She assumed that meant he wasn't going to tip her, and brought him this little printed card, which told all about how it is customary to tip WDW servers, even at buffets, etc etc. He then explained that he was leaving cash and pointed to the $15 he left on the table. It was an honest misunderstanding, but he was totally put off by it!

And then the server could have watched me take back my tip. How unbelievably rude! Even asking for a gratuity would have been pushing it in my opinion, but the card would have been the end. I also would have spoken to management and explained the meaning of the word "tip" and how it is given at the discretion of the diner, not the server.

We talk about a sense of entitlement, and this is perfect example.

 

[Halbleib1]

The server doesn't demand it. No person 'demands' it. It's the way the service industry works.

Chances are your imaginary server is not working forty hours a week, nor five days a week, nor eight hours a day. For VERY FEW people is restaurant service a full-time, permanent position. And you do NOT want a server with fifteen tables. FIFTEEN table? Really??? Six tables wouldn't be a small restaurant, it would be a typical (chain) restaurant with six times x tables and ideally enough servers to staff those tables.

Let's say they work the more likely six hours a day, three days a week. Out of those six hours, maybe four are spent serving. An hour is devoted to set-up and prep; another hour to clean-up and prep for the next day. So, four hours times six tables times three diners.

The economy stinks right now (not sure if you're aware) so the average check would tend to be more in the range of $15 - assuming all diners are adults. So, $45 per table, times 15%. Figure each table turns over once an hour, so twenty-four parties, or $162. The server needs to tip out the bartender (yes, even just for pouring soda), the bus persons, the food runners, sometimes the host/esses. Figure $150, times three days = $450. Add that to the - shocking! - $42.35 the restaurant PAYS them for those same eighteen hours, you get $492.35.

You end up with a much less enviable - but far more realistic - PRE-tax annual earning of $25,599.60.

At disney world they do have a union though that does make demands. An example being that the tip was removed from the dining plan because the union requested it. They must have felt that they would do better in tips without it being included.

 

[MouseEarsJenny]

I generally tip anyone who performs a service for me: waiters, mousekeepers, hairstylists, etc. I even feel guilty not tossing some cash into those ubiquitous tip jars at Subways and similar. I'm not sure I care to explore the reasons why.

But the only time I've ever really wanted to NOT tip someone was at Disney. We were a party of 11 at Crystal Palace for my birthday. The waitress took our drink orders, filled them almost 20 minutes later, and then literally NEVER came back until she brought us the check. Since our tip was already included on the bill, she ended up with a nearly $60 tip for bringing a tray full of drinks. It was frustrating, and is one of the reasons why I don't intend to return to Crystal Palace. (Yes, I know I could have asked for a manager and had the tip removed or reduced, but I really didn't want to deal with confrontation on my birthday. If that makes me a wimp, so be it.)

That's why even though I am a tipper (maybe even an overtipper) at heart, I think everyone should base their decision to tip or not on the service you received in a given situation, rather than on pre-determined rules.

 

[WLSILVERCREEKSPRINGS]

Tipping is up to the customer, it is not an obligation, if you want to tip generously or miserly that is your decision

 

[steph73]

But the only time I've ever really wanted to NOT tip someone was at Disney. We were a party of 11 at Crystal Palace for my birthday. The waitress took our drink orders, filled them almost 20 minutes later, and then literally NEVER came back until she brought us the check. Since our tip was already included on the bill, she ended up with a nearly $60 tip for bringing a tray full of drinks. It was frustrating, and is one of the reasons why I don't intend to return to Crystal Palace. (Yes, I know I could have asked for a manager and had the tip removed or reduced, but I really didn't want to deal with confrontation on my birthday. If that makes me a wimp, so be it.)

Call me cynical, but dollars to donuts you received bad service because she knew your "gratuity" was a done deal. A point often made by proponents of our tipping system, who say that if tips are made into mandatory charges or rarely expected, service will suffer. It's a valid point.

 

[TLinden16]

Since this is more of a general thread about tipping, we are going to move it over to the community board.

 

[declansdad]

Personally, I feel that you tip anyone that you want to tip. What bothers me is when people say "Why tip then? They are paid to do that job?"

Everyone is paid to do a job. It isn't the customer's fault that a job pays less.

 

[jagafen]

I can't believe this is still open... If anyone is still reading before posting, I just pulled out the Social Security Statements for my DH and I, who were both servers for a good portion of our adult lives befoer we went back to school (incidentally, TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!)

He worked at Olive Garden:
1992 12,980
1993 15,204
1994 14,542
1995 15,477

Then, he worked at Outback Steakhouse (where, incidentally, most stations are 3 tables MAX...you might get 4 if someone call out or you're the headwait for the night)

1996 17,468
1997 18,383
1998 17,166 (he went back to school this year)
1999 15,354 (Still in school...)
2000 17,384 Working FINE DINING PART TIME until he graduated from school and WHAMMO....

2001 37,374 base salary for a teacher in our area at the time!!

Myself-I started waiting tables in 1991, in Florida, at a Village Inn, while in college

1991 4,031
1992 2,925 (you can see why I moved back home to PA)
1993 10,812 (working at TGI Friday's)
1994 10,838
1995 7,421 ( I took a little break, and worked under the table...shhhhh)
1996 16,729 (we are now working at Outback together, where we met and fell in love...note...he made more money than I did) I also went back to school this year.

1997 18,832
1998 18,820 (I am now working PART TIME in fine dining, making what I did the year prior)
1999 17,136 (PT work-in school FT)
2000 16,026 (PT work-in school) FT
2001 7,155 (another "break" under the table and dreaming year)
2002 13,117 I finally graduate from my 5 year program.....catch pregnant by the sweet guy I met at the Outback 7 years or so prior...yeah, we're still together....

2003 33,649 entry level pay for my field. I also didn't work for 6 weeks due to the birth of my son, so this is off by a bit.

My point being, servers don't make a lot of money, period. That's why many work 2 jobs, they live together 3-4 people to an apartment to make ends meet, and very few are able to support families on just their wages alone. I pity the single parent trying to raise a child on 18k a year. If you happen to snag a really good gig like the fine dining, you'd pull in about 40K a year in our area, if you were REALLY good, and didn't like to take days off. That means, working from 3:30p-1:30a, never having a weekend night off, I have kept my mouth shut for 9 pages of responses, but come on....it doesn't get more real than those figures!!



Here's the happy ending: We were married in 2005, still happily married, established in our careers...our son is 7 now!!! Never say "I'll never date anyone I work with". You never know who might view that as a challenge!!











;

 

[lacrosse_lady72]

Why are people so against tip jars? I don't understand it. It's not a requirement, but if the service is great, or the atmosphere is fun or anything other thing making the experience a great one, then what's wrong with throwing a dollar or two in a tip jar? Or at a coffee place, if you get a coffee for $1.60, is there something wrong with throwing your change in the cup?

There's no rule on tips!

There have been situations where I felt service was so wonderful, and this happen a lot at my favorite restaurant, I'll tip a lot.

 

[ols386]

Why are people so against tip jars? I don't understand it. It's not a requirement, but if the service is great, or the atmosphere is fun or anything other thing making the experience a great one, then what's wrong with throwing a dollar or two in a tip jar? Or at a coffee place, if you get a coffee for $1.60, is there something wrong with throwing your change in the cup?

There's no rule on tips!

There have been situations where I felt service was so wonderful, and this happen a lot at my favorite restaurant, I'll tip a lot.

Sometimes I'll drop a dollar in one of those tip jars at a coffee shop or where ever there might be one. Not always, but sometimes.

 

[HMGar]

To Op I have a question why do you tip a bartender but someone making your coffee? They are both making you a drink. Is it only because one is alcohol? Just curious as to the difference.

Very good question. I guess I've never really thought about that. Since working in a casino for several years of my adult life, I became friends with many bartenders. I knew how much they made, and knew they depended on their tips. I guess I just never thought of a coffee shop in the same way.

I don't think I'll change my mind, though. I will still tip the bartenders, but not for a cup of coffee in a coffee shop. I don't order the specialty drinks. I might feel differently in that case.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Not to be snarky, but where does it end? Tip jars could be anywhere then. At Mcdonald's, Target, Gymboree, the ballet studio and so on. These people are making a certain amount an hour, guaranteed. They're doing their job. Why tip them for what they're being paid to do?

Tip jars rub me the wrong way because I feel pressured to drop money in. And I have done that. But it's more out of guilt rather than feeling like the atmosphere is fabulous or the lady did a great job pouring me a cup of coffee.

Hey, maybe I should set up a tip jar in my kitchen and when my guests come over, if I made a good meal or made them feel good, they can put a few bucks in!