To the DISer whose husband was looking for a teaching job

[roadtripper]

I taught for 17 years in the district next door to Central Falls. As many have said, there is more to the story. Teachers in this district are committed to working with inner city students, or they would head for an easier position.

I will support firing an entire teaching staff when we start firing boards of directors and CEOS of the companies that got us into the financial crisis last year--the bankers, the car companies, the mortgage derivatives salespeople. Instead we gave them seven figure bonuses. This is a messed up world when we blame high school teachers and classroom aides for not fixing all of society's problems in the 45 minutes per day that they see their students.

 

[it's kelly]

Unfortunately it seems that many people believe that teachers "only work 6 hours a day, have summers off"... perhaps people should educate themselves on the actually demands and expectations within the teaching profession before they post replies. If teachers are expected to donate a lunch break one day a week, then why wouldn't we expect from all professions, including police officers, office workers, assistants, sales people, doctors, nurses, cashiers, hair dressers, dental assistants...

As a hair stylist, I do donate many lunch breaks. There are many days where I don't have a 30 minute lunch break and it takes me 2 hours to finish a sandwich because it's a bite here and a bite there. There are also many times I order lunch and eat it hours later when I 'have a chance'. So you can scratch hair dressers off of the list. I can't speak for any other professions.

 

[Disfan3]

70 grand?? I BARELY make half that.

Teachers should not be asked to give up their 20 minute lunch

 

[KKB]

Teacher here...I am astounded at some of the responses here...(THANK YOU to those who see the whole picture)
A 52% graduation rate is NOT a teacher issue--it is a PARENTING issue. (btw, that was my father's quote...not mine). I guarantee most (MOST, not all...there are rotten workers in all professions) of those teachers are doing everything they can think of to help those students succeed. No Child Left Behind has turned our once amazing district into a very mediocre district where no one but teachers are held accountable. And teachers are being asked to do more and more with fewer & fewer resources. Last year I had a student who came to school 2 days/wk avg. They asked what I was doing to get him to pass the state test. I said, well, he's only here 2 days a week, I'm not sure what else I can do. Admin said, "Well, there's nothing you can do about that--so what is your plan?" ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME??!! Needless to say, I left the classroom & am in the media center; with changing technology it is the most relevant area to be going in right now--we are preparing students for the real world--taking tests doesn't. (if you still have an old school librarian at your school, I'm so sorry...I promise, change is coming!)
The problem is that the school board/superintendant said to the teachers "this is what you will do & no, we are not paying you more" That's horrid leadership. Unions are in place in many industries to avoid such management bullying...
They ought to get GREAT new teachers to replace the ones they fire--WHAT quality teacher would want to work in a district that treats their teachers that way? Only DESPERATE ones...
BTW, DH & I have been teaching over 20 years. We make nowhere near $70K. Our salaries are far below our friends who work in banking, insurance, construction. We bring work home most evenings or we are sponsoring clubs or coaching sports. We spend much of our summers taking graduate classes, going to workshops (we have so many hours/yr required) or working a summer job to make ends meet. Yes, we can leave earlier than some jobs (btw, my required hours are 7.5/day--not 6) and we do have nice breaks worked in. Is it any wonder most teachers are women--it is a schedule that allows us to work full-time and still be able to shuttle children to their various activities.
Go spend one day in a classroom. It is a high energy profession. Studies have shown that teachers make more decisions in a day than any other profession--somewhere between 600-750 decisions during the average work day. (yes, some of those include whether Jimmy should be allowed to go to the bathroom for the 3rd time this morning...but they also include quickly determining that Susie is NOT comprehending the concept you are teaching her, and you must think of a new way to present it --ON THE SPOT)
Sorry to get on my soapbox...I LOVE teaching. I LOVED my district 20 years ago. We were innovative and celebrated creativity in our teachers. Now our lessons are almost totally scripted & what we are being asked to do has NOTHING to do with truly preparing students for the real world.
I am THRILLED to have gotten into Media Literacy...it is so relevant. It has re-energized me. I feel like what I am teaching students is truly preparing them for life.

 

[Callie]

Mine is a lunch "30 minutes" but by the time I walk the kids to the cafeteria, get them settled and then do the same thing in reverse, it becomes a lunch "15 minutes" But why should we think we are entitled to more?

I guess my mom's is closer to a hour since she's a HS teacher, so she has the passing periods added in to the lunch hour, and she usually just eats in her department office.

But yes, teacher's don't get paid for summer, so it's not time off.

 

[kahpets]

I will support firing an entire teaching staff when we start firing boards of directors and CEOS of the companies that got us into the financial crisis last year--the bankers, the car companies, the mortgage derivatives salespeople. Instead we gave them seven figure bonuses. This is a messed up world when we blame high school teachers and classroom aides for not fixing all of society's problems in the 45 minutes per day that they see their students.

I agree!

 

[paysensmom]

I am also a teacher. I am required to be at school at 7:20, I get a 30 minute lunch break and we are required to stay until 3:50 every day. We get to leave at 3:20 on Fridays! So that is an 8 1/2 hour day including my lunch. I am also required to tutor Mondays and Wednesdays after school for a minimum of 45 minutes. I do NOT get paid anything beyond my regular pay for this mandatory tutoring.
Of course I NEVER leave at 3:50. I am always at school until at least 4:15. I left today at 5:00. I was making copies for benchmark TAKS testing. I get paid 36,000 per year. I get paid for 12 months though. We have a choice of ten or twelve month pay. I choose to spread mine out so I still get paid in the summer!
So please do your homework before making comments about what you "think" teachers work hours are or what you believe a teacher should give up during the day.

 

[hanutedmansionmomma]

I think when you are making $70,000 a year for approx 6 hrs of work every weekend and holiday off and a full 2 months of vacation and you are asked to work an addition 20-40 minutes a day you should be willing to do it. They weren't so now they get to see what the rest of the real world has been dealing with.

I make mid $40s, have a Master's Degree and have been teaching for 12 years. If you can find me a job that will hire me from the 2nd week of June until the first week of August to make up the extra $30K, please let me know I would love the rest of the world to know what I deal with in my 8-9 hour days, but there's probably a character limit on these threads

 

[Hannathy]

I hate to tell you but arguing that you only get paid for 10 months makes it actually worse! So you are getting $70,000 for only 10 months of work. As far as giving up a lunch maybe you should talk to the rest of the working world no one has a guaranteed lunch, if you are needed you work.

The teachers at our Highschool arrive between 7 and 715 and the lot is empty by 3:30 They teach five 50 minute periods, they monitor a study hall or lunch or watch a door for 1 period (during which they can do work or eat), They have 1 period as planning plus they have 1 period for lunch. so they have 3, 50 minute periods a day off of teaching to prep and eat. so they teach for 300 minutes a day that is 5 hours plus 1 hour of monitoring(which they either eat or correct papers) EVen if they go home and put in 2 more hours it only brings them up to about what most professionals are putting in every day. After the first couple of years of teaching a subject if you can't manage your time to get your work done in 3 hours everyday I wonder what you are doing, you wouldn't make it in business.
In this economic climate you either put in extra time and effort or you are out so it is time for teachers to also give up a few things like everyone else has.
I would really like to see these schools that the teachers are there to 5 because that has never been anywhere I have lived. Heck parent orientation night is limited by the union to 1 night in the whole year and limited to a certain number of minutes approximately 180 for the year. When my DH needed to stay over for a project no one counted the minutes it was just expected.

Trust me they will have no problem filling those jobs in RHode Island and that is the real test of whether a job is adequately reimbursed.

 

[paysensmom]

Just because you happen to live in a school district that the teachers work those hours, does not mean that is what teachers everywhere do. WHERE do you keep getting this $70,000?? I make $36,000; not even HALF of what you are claiming teachers make.

Like I said before, I make $36,000 and YES, I am at my school most days until after 4:00. Many times I am there until at least 5:00. It is my first year teaching so that may be why I am there so long. The reason doesn't matter. You need to stop comparing EVERY teacher to what you have seen in YOUR town.

I hate to tell you but arguing that you only get paid for 10 months makes it actually worse! So you are getting $70,000 for only 10 months of work. As far as giving up a lunch maybe you should talk to the rest of the working world no one has a guaranteed lunch, if you are needed you work.

The teachers at our Highschool arrive between 7 and 715 and the lot is empty by 3:30 They teach five 50 minute periods, they monitor a study hall or lunch or watch a door for 1 period (during which they can do work or eat), They have 1 period as planning plus they have 1 period for lunch. so they have 3, 50 minute periods a day off of teaching to prep and eat. so they teach for 300 minutes a day that is 5 hours plus 1 hour of monitoring(which they either eat or correct papers) EVen if they go home and put in 2 more hours it only brings them up to about what most professionals are putting in every day. After the first couple of years of teaching a subject if you can't manage your time to get your work done in 3 hours everyday I wonder what you are doing, you wouldn't make it in business.
In this economic climate you either put in extra time and effort or you are out so it is time for teachers to also give up a few things like everyone else has.
I would really like to see these schools that the teachers are there to 5 because that has never been anywhere I have lived. Heck parent orientation night is limited by the union to 1 night in the whole year and limited to a certain number of minutes approximately 180 for the year. When my DH needed to stay over for a project no one counted the minutes it was just expected.

Trust me they will have no problem filling those jobs in RHode Island and that is the real test of whether a job is adequately reimbursed.

 

[DVCBELLE]

I agree with the teachers who have posted here. No one who hasn't taught, and taught effectively, understands or even believes in the demands of that profession. The super in R.I. is a fool and short-sighted, imho.

I want to chime in as a parent who TOTALLY understands and appreciates the work of my children's teachers.

Every day, I put my most precious possession into the hands of their teachers. I trust that they will teach them, encourage them and discipline them. When I am worried b/c my child is having trouble with another student, it is the teacher who I turn to for advice on how to deal with the situation or to get a perspective on how to deal with it. My DDs teacher had to call me this year and let me know that my DD was touched inappropriately by a boy in her SECOND grade class. Worse yet, she had to call his parents and tell them this happened with 2 other girls as well.

They have to decide which kid is telling the truth in a game of he said, she said and while all that is going on, they are dealing with 28 kids who have a WIDE range of abilities. They have to figure out how to keep a gifted child engaged while also teaching a slower learner. They have to make sure that in their classroom that kids understand and follow the rules and I can't tell you how often I have seen them get no support from the parent's at home.

My kids arrive at school at 9:15 am and leave at 4:00 pm. That's 6 hours and 45 minutes when the kids are there. I know that they all arrive early enough to answer emails and make phone calls before the day begins and I know that when I pick my kids up for after school activities at 5:00 - many of them are just then leaving. They get very little break in that time frame to even go to the bathroom and have lunch. I volunteer for my child's teacher to make her copies each week and do other extras for her. This often takes me about 2 hours of uninterupted time on the copier.

At the class parties - we have 5-6 mom's come in to help the 26 kids in my DSs kindergarten class with a snack, craft and games - and we can barely get the craft done. How one woman can so calmly manage them is BEYOND me! I also know that when it is time for ELEMENTARY report cards - each teacher spends about an hour a student on those - which have to be done on their own time.

And all of this is when they are young and still love school and their teachers. It is before they turn into snotty, uninterested teenagers where everything turns into TOTAL DRAMA and trying to engage them for an hour of Biology has got to be near impossible.

I am sure most of the teachers in my district do not make 70,000 but I honestly think they deserve more! I think they deserve a nice quiet lunch to calm their frazzled nerves and I think they deserve a summer off to refresh and renew.

My DHs an attorney and if he messes up on a contract or issue at work - it might take some work to fix it but it is fixable. But when dealing with children - mistakes can cause much more damage. I pay a lot to go see my kid's pediatrician to make sure that my kids are happy and healthy - why don't we put that same value on teacher's who are shaping our children's futures?

 

[hanutedmansionmomma]

My DHs an attorney and if he messes up on a contract or issue at work - it might take some work to fix it but it is fixable. But when dealing with children - mistakes can cause much more damage. I pay a lot to go see my kid's pediatrician to make sure that my kids are happy and healthy - why don't we put that same value on teacher's who are shaping our children's futures?

 

[Hannathy]

Just because you happen to live in a school district that the teachers work those hours, does not mean that is what teachers everywhere do. WHERE do you keep getting this $70,000?? I make $36,000; not even HALF of what you are claiming teachers make.

Like I said before, I make $36,000 and YES, I am at my school most days until after 4:00. Many times I am there until at least 5:00. It is my first year teaching so that may be why I am there so long. The reason doesn't matter. You need to stop comparing EVERY teacher to what you have seen in YOUR town.

The average salary at the High School in question is 72,000-78,000. Yes you make 36,000 in your first year but you will go up every year. Guaranteed- I know of no other job you are guaranteed to go up every year. Teachers start low but they top out high for the amount of time they spend at their jobs. The us median I think is around 52,000 not bad for 10 months, every weekend off, every holiday off, spring break, Christmas break, and compensation for every minute over what is required, plus personal days.
Yes Teaching is a job but it isn't slave labor and is a very desirable job or else there wouldn't be waiting lists a mile long every time there is an opening.

 

[Cindy B]

Teachers don't work 6 hour days and get 2 full months off here at all. They start in the low 30s for salary.

Not in this state.. the minimum starting salary with a bachelors is 47K. Most districts start at over 50K. Upon retirement, teachers usually are making 85-110K a year

 

[paysensmom]

My dear, you are sadly mistaken. We are NOT compensated for every minute over what is required. As I mentioned earlier. I have to tutor after school twice per week for 45 minutes AFTER our 7:20-3:50 workday. I am NOT compensated for that. I am not compensated when I have meetings with parents during my lunch time because that is the only time they can meet me. I am not compensated when I have to stay after school to meet with parents who can only meet at that time. My list can go on and on. You have some misguided idea of what a teacher endures. Please do not get me wrong. I love my job. I love working with students inspiring and helping them. I work at a school where parents could care less if their child learns what they need to let alone read a book to them.
I have not refered to it as slave labor and I haven't read where anybody else did either. The point the teachers in this thread are trying to make is that it is unreasonable to ask us to give up our very brief lunch break when we already bust our behinds on a daily basis as it is.
On another note; why don't you look into the statistics of how long many teachers teach. There are tons of teachers who teach for one year or a couple and then quit. These are the people who have this jaded view of reality like you do. They realize that teaching isn't such the cush job people like you make it out to be and they decide they don't want to put that much time or effort into it.

The average salary at the High School in question is 72,000-78,000. Yes you make 36,000 in your first year but you will go up every year. Guaranteed- I know of no other job you are guaranteed to go up every year. Teachers start low but they top out high for the amount of time they spend at their jobs. The us median I think is around 52,000 not bad for 10 months, every weekend off, every holiday off, spring break, Christmas break, and compensation for every minute over what is required, plus personal days.
Yes Teaching is a job but it isn't slave labor and is a very desirable job or else there wouldn't be waiting lists a mile long every time there is an opening.

 

[DVCBELLE]

The average salary at the High School in question is 72,000-78,000. Yes you make 36,000 in your first year but you will go up every year. Guaranteed- I know of no other job you are guaranteed to go up every year. Teachers start low but they top out high for the amount of time they spend at their jobs. The us median I think is around 52,000 not bad for 10 months, every weekend off, every holiday off, spring break, Christmas break, and compensation for every minute over what is required, plus personal days.
Yes Teaching is a job but it isn't slave labor and is a very desirable job or else there wouldn't be waiting lists a mile long every time there is an opening.

Out of curiosity - do you have kids?

Do you spend anytime in their schools?

On another note; why don't you look into the statistics of how long many teachers teach. There are tons of teachers who teach for one year or a couple and then quit. These are the people who have this jaded view of reality like you do. They realize that teaching isn't such the cush job people like you make it out to be and they decide they don't want to put that much time or effort into it.

or maybe they are dealing with parents who treat them like dirt.

 

[fac]

My DHs an attorney and if he messes up on a contract or issue at work - it might take some work to fix it but it is fixable. But when dealing with children - mistakes can cause much more damage. I pay a lot to go see my kid's pediatrician to make sure that my kids are happy and healthy - why don't we put that same value on teacher's who are shaping our children's futures?

I totally agreed if those "teachers" were doing their jobs. I am not going to argue whether the teachers are entitled to work 6 hours a day or work 10 month a year. I was paid for 40 hours a week, but I used to work over 60 hours a week. Big deal, it is part of the job - to get the work done. I was compensated really well.


But as a parent of a special ed child, my child's sped teacher in the last 2 year was jjust plain lazy. Her teaching plan was a page out of a web site. There is no accountability.

Therefore, if anyone thinks teaching is an easy job, then get a teaching job. On the other hand, no one is entitled for job. If the students are failing and the teachers are not willing to help, we should find someone who will.

As an aside, DD's teacher this year who volunteers to provide one-on-one tutoring to her.

 

[paysensmom]

That could be true too! But in my case, I rarely get a chance to deal with parents. The ones at my school are very uninvolved I wish I could just take them home.


or maybe they are dealing with parents who treat them like dirt.[/QUOTE]

 

[Hannathy]

Yes I do have kids and I do spend a lot of time in the schools volunteering, that is how I know what their work schedule entails. I also have relatives who are teachers and administraters. I also know directly from the high school principal the fact that he is allowed to require the teachers to work 1 evening in the school year and it can not go over 180 minutes. Doesn't sound very giving to me.
I would like to know where these teachers are that don't get lunch? And guess what lots of professions aren't guaranteed a lunch, ever work in an ICU?

As an aside with your $36,000 a year how much are your benefits worth? In most places teachers have Rolls Royce benefits compared to the market and generally pay very little towards them. For a single teacher in our district benefits add another 25,000 to the compensation package of which they pay next to nothing.

Add in job security. It is almost impossible to fire a teacher for not doing their job.

 

[winjos]

FWIW - When I taught, I had 40 students per class (that would be a total of 200 students a year).

Here's what takes up time outside of the actual instructional time in the classroom:

Planning: I taught three different subjects --- 3 different lesson plans (I was not an anomaly). Plus, it seemed that the literature (books, workbooks, media) changed year to year. It takes a lot of time to plan lessons that are engaging.

Prepping for class: Making copies of tests, projects, information sheets, study sheets, homework, etc.

Misc.: Phone calls & e-mails to parents, scheduling various resources, extracurricular activities like field trips, school wide project presentations, meeting with administration, department meetings, etc.

Grading: Please remember the number of students I had each class (40) ---Tests that needed to be graded by hand, homework turned in each week, projects, and essays.

Grade book: Putting grades into the computer, checking for errors, posting to the internet (special school program), and updating assignments on website.

Help/Make up: Helping students before school, during lunch, and after school, plus anyone who needed to make up work. Pushes the stuff you planned to do to the next time you have a free moment.

I worked 7am-4pm everyday. I tried to grade every night. I enjoyed Friday night, started thinking about the week to come Saturday evening, and worked most of Sunday to get ready for the week or try and get those darn essays and tests graded (kids like lots of comments on their papers).

I loved teaching and being with the students, but it was a lot of work!!

Regarding pay: My district started out high, but increased at a lower rate. The top pay was $65K but that was with a Ph.D and lots of years of service.