To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

I did that calculator thing and my vo2max is 49. So for my age (35) that falls in the "excellent" category. Greater than 49.4 would be superior. Does that sound right? Is 49 really an ok #?

I mean, technically my fatigue often comes from tired legs (lactate) or mental road-blocks since I don't like to push past the "can't breath great" threshold.
Your 60 is really good though, right?

EDITED!!!! OK, I am not a male...I am a female. Looks like I am "superior" on the female chart. Who would of thunk it? Maybe I need to see what my garmin says....if it's the kind that can track it.

EDITTED again: I did it three more times after making sure I was really resting and got 52 each time on those. Which is just one second heart beat less. And now I've over-analyzed it.
 
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I did that calculator thing and my vo2max is 49. So for my age (35) that falls in the "excellent" category. Greater than 49.4 would be superior. Does that sound right? Is 49 really an ok #?

I mean, technically my fatigue often comes from tired legs (lactate) or mental road-blocks since I don't like to push past the "can't breath great" threshold.
Your 60 is really good though, right?

EDITED!!!! OK, I am not a male...I am a female. Looks like I am "superior" on the female chart. Who would of thunk it? Maybe I need to see what my garmin says....if it's the kind that can track it.

EDITTED again: I did it three more times after making sure I was really resting and got 52 each time on those. Which is just one second heart beat less. And now I've over-analyzed it.

I also did it like 3 times and each time got in the superior range (just barely), which I find doubtful. :D

Anyway, I PM'd @DopeyBadger, but doing the math myself I come up with my potential to be a 7:58 mm. Assuming I did the math right which is a big assumption. :teacher: So, that would mean that's like the absolute fastest I could go right? And is that for a mile and then you calculate something else from that for longer distances? I guess that's the part I don't understand exactly. And now my head hurts. :headache:
 
I also did it like 3 times and each time got in the superior range (just barely), which I find doubtful. :D

Anyway, I PM'd @DopeyBadger, but doing the math myself I come up with my potential to be a 7:58 mm. Assuming I did the math right which is a big assumption. :teacher: So, that would mean that's like the absolute fastest I could go right? And is that for a mile and then you calculate something else from that for longer distances? I guess that's the part I don't understand exactly. And now my head hurts. :headache:

SAME...except for the emailing Dopey. But yes, thinking that same thoughts you are.
My guess is that ideal conditions and training play a big part in hitting your vo2max paces. Like, I am 5'9" but also 158 lbs. (Ack to type my weight publicly..but we are all being honest here.) I'd imagine someone my height with less weight on their frame would fair better during long distances. I do have a "running-back's hind area" though and I've known this since my college athletic days and it helped me during my best events which were sprints in rowing. So I gotta imagine that's different than someone with different kinds of muscles. I also know my "core" is a bit garbage at the moment. Or at least "for me". Then there's the whole eating perfectly and hydrating perfectly which are all works in progress. And so much more....like people being more injury prone than others and hence more cautious. I'm also only running three days a week. Etc etc.
Yeah, not sure I will ever hit a 19:17 5k even if I tried so very very hard to be "ideal"
But maybe it gives me hope that I can hit that elusive 27 or 26 one of these days.

Signed - Roxy "not a scientist" Mama
 
I did that calculator thing and my vo2max is 49. So for my age (35) that falls in the "excellent" category. Greater than 49.4 would be superior. Does that sound right? Is 49 really an ok #?

I mean, technically my fatigue often comes from tired legs (lactate) or mental road-blocks since I don't like to push past the "can't breath great" threshold.
Your 60 is really good though, right?

EDITED!!!! OK, I am not a male...I am a female. Looks like I am "superior" on the female chart. Who would of thunk it? Maybe I need to see what my garmin says....if it's the kind that can track it.

EDITTED again: I did it three more times after making sure I was really resting and got 52 each time on those. Which is just one second heart beat less. And now I've over-analyzed it.

Here is the calculations for a VO2max of 49 and 52:

49
Screen Shot 2016-09-01 at 1.07.06 PM.png

52
Screen Shot 2016-09-01 at 1.07.18 PM.png

Again, the calculation you used to get your VO2max value is crude and not individualistic but it's a good estimate. It says to me you have a high "floor" for your capabilities. You've got the pure speed what you need to focus on is the lactate threshold and running economy (surprise, that's what we're doing in your training plan). So that it makes sense, your max speed is a 6:18 min/mile (could maintain for 2-5 minutes, although I can't maintain mine for much more than 25-30 seconds) and your predicted typical finish times for a HM and M are:

HM - 1:51-2:11
M - 3:55-4:35

Does this mean you could walk out the door and hit these paces? Nope. But it means that you are cardiovascularly capable of hitting these goal times. The more you maximize your LT and Running economy the higher up in the %VO2max you could hit. I put the red zone (elite) on there to show when you maximize essentially everything (VO2max, LT, Running Economy, and Mind) that's where you could end up. However, it takes some serious training and genetic predisposition to get there.

I don't include 5K and 10K predicted times based on %Vo2max because there are a ton of other variables that come into play on being able to maximize that potential.

My 64 VO2max is superior as well and shows that I am genetically predisposed to being a runner. I'll say though that when I started it was around a 48, so it has definitely improved over the years. One thing I'd like to do is break out the old Garmin HR chest strap after the marathon and see where the heart rate variability values fall these days. I wonder how close to the 64 it believes I am.

I also did it like 3 times and each time got in the superior range (just barely), which I find doubtful. :D

Anyway, I PM'd @DopeyBadger, but doing the math myself I come up with my potential to be a 7:58 mm. Assuming I did the math right which is a big assumption. :teacher: So, that would mean that's like the absolute fastest I could go right? And is that for a mile and then you calculate something else from that for longer distances? I guess that's the part I don't understand exactly. And now my head hurts. :headache:

I'm not surprised by your higher than average VO2max because of all of the run/walk training you do is typically very heavy in the pace ranges that improve LT/VO2max.

SAME...except for the emailing Dopey. But yes, thinking that same thoughts you are.
My guess is that ideal conditions and training play a big part in hitting your vo2max paces. Like, I am 5'9" but also 158 lbs. (Ack to type my weight publicly..but we are all being honest here.) I'd imagine someone my height with less weight on their frame would fair better during long distances. I do have a "running-back's hind area" though and I've known this since my college athletic days and it helped me during my best events which were sprints in rowing. So I gotta imagine that's different than someone with different kinds of muscles. I also know my "core" is a bit garbage at the moment. Or at least "for me". Then there's the whole eating perfectly and hydrating perfectly which are all works in progress. And so much more....like people being more injury prone than others and hence more cautious. I'm also only running three days a week. Etc etc.
Yeah, not sure I will ever hit a 19:17 5k even if I tried so very very hard to be "ideal"
But maybe it gives me hope that I can hit that elusive 27 or 26 one of these days.

Signed - Roxy "not a scientist" Mama

That would come into play for running economy. The less of you there is the easier it is for the body to propel it forward. To a point of course, because if you disappear too much then you start to diminish the necessary muscles to do the work to propel forward. I also remember reading a study about how extra weight around the lungs and stomach makes it harder to breathe during exercise because the fat is less moveable during each breathe. It takes more energy to take that breath and thus it's less useful. So minimizing the extra weight around the lungs and stomach makes it easier to breathe and thus helps maximize each breathes potential use for energy.

A 26 minute 5K is around a 75% VO2max at your current fitness level. So the question isn't if you'll hit a 26 min 5K, but rather when. The only thing preventing you from hitting that is likely your LT and Running Economy. Which both only become improved with more running. So keep running for the next couple months/years, and consider doing 4x/week running and you'll hit that 26 minute 5K without a doubt. Technically, you don't even need much work at 5K paces, you need more work at 10K-HM paces. Conveniently your upcoming goals of a 15K and HM play right into this and by improving your endurance you'll hit the 26 min 5K without actually training for it specifically.

Signed - Dopey "I'm a scientist, but running's my hobby" Badger
 
SAME...except for the emailing Dopey. But yes, thinking that same thoughts you are.
My guess is that ideal conditions and training play a big part in hitting your vo2max paces. Like, I am 5'9" but also 158 lbs. (Ack to type my weight publicly..but we are all being honest here.) I'd imagine someone my height with less weight on their frame would fair better during long distances. I do have a "running-back's hind area" though and I've known this since my college athletic days and it helped me during my best events which were sprints in rowing. So I gotta imagine that's different than someone with different kinds of muscles. I also know my "core" is a bit garbage at the moment. Or at least "for me". Then there's the whole eating perfectly and hydrating perfectly which are all works in progress. And so much more....like people being more injury prone than others and hence more cautious. I'm also only running three days a week. Etc etc.
Yeah, not sure I will ever hit a 19:17 5k even if I tried so very very hard to be "ideal"
But maybe it gives me hope that I can hit that elusive 27 or 26 one of these days.

Signed - Roxy "not a scientist" Mama

According to my garmin, I'm 52 as well! I definitely think you can reach those "elusive" paces! I'm lucky that I've been able to run 5-6 days a week to hit my PRs. A 19:17 5k is pretty crazy though. I think you can look at an elite runner and compare body types, but generally, that's their job - to be an elite runner and they have to be super disciplined. But for everyone else, life happens!
 
According to my garmin, I'm 52 as well! I definitely think you can reach those "elusive" paces! I'm lucky that I've been able to run 5-6 days a week to hit my PRs. A 19:17 5k is pretty crazy though. I think you can look at an elite runner and compare body types, but generally, that's their job - to be an elite runner and they have to be super disciplined. But for everyone else, life happens!

See you're an interesting case:

Screen Shot 2016-09-01 at 1.07.18 PM.png

Your VO2max of 52 suggests your HM range is from 1:46-2:04 for a typical person. It suggests to me one of either two scenarios:

1) Your VO2max is wrong. Check the input on your garmin to make sure your resting HR, max HR, age, and gender are correct. For the purposes of the calculation the garmin does though, it really only needs an accurate resting HR and max HR. It's possible because of your high RH and high max HR that it's playing an issue in calculating your VO2max accurately from heart rate variability as well (just a guess).
2) You have a very high relative lactate threshold and running economy.

This might help suggest why you struggle to run just a tiny bit faster than your HM goal pace. Because you're currently capable of running your goal HM time VERY close to your LT. So when you've been running your strength paces at near 10K pace, it might have been past the LT. Your goal HM pace is at ~78.5%, but I still strongly believe you can hit it and still believe based on your workouts you can exceed your goal.

The other take away you should have is that if the VO2max is accurate to continue increasing your physical capabilities (and thus lowering your HM PR) you need more speed work so as to increase your VO2max. You've nearly maxed your current LT and running economy for your current VO2max so getting better requires increasing your speed cap.

Yea, and it's usually best not to compare ourselves to those elites. It's their job to run that much. An elite 5K runner runs like 100 miles per week (or 10-12 hours per week) even though they're running a 3.1 mile race. They're crazy!
 
The peak is coming. I'm climbing my way out of this valley.

sophie-radcliffe-interview-at-good-people-run.jpg

I could tell around mile 8/9 of today's run that I was starting to get that "it" feeling again. Then I rounded the corner for my last 0.5 miles...


AND...


Some jerk stole my water bottles again... :sad:

Such a disheartening feeling when you see that your water bottles have been stolen by some fellow neighbor. Disappointing... Oh well, I've got enough extra water bottles I'll be fine and not have to buy more, but really, like really what causes someone to see my water bottles in a bag with ice packs and then to think to themselves yea I should steal these... :sad2:
 
Argh. That sucks that someone stole your water bottles again! It's gotta be a kid/teen being silly. Or do you think someone is just throwing them away thinking it's litter even though it doesn't look like it? But that's great you're coming out of that valley!
 
Argh. That sucks that someone stole your water bottles again! It's gotta be a kid/teen being silly. Or do you think someone is just throwing them away thinking it's litter even though it doesn't look like it? But that's great you're coming out of that valley!

I checked the trash can that was right there. SOOO much dog droppings, but no water bottles. I also checked the tree line where the kids threw them the last time (before I started putting them in a plastic bag with ice packs, which was my attempt to further let others know they're not abandoned). Best guess it's some other runner that's just a jerk and stole them...

Great feeling coming out of the valley!
 
Hmmmm, maybe hide them in a garbage bag. No one will touch a closed trash bag! Then you can rip it open, drink your water, toss the bag in the trash can, and silently laugh at the thief!
 
I can't imagine someone taking water bottles. Maybe you can stash them in a bush or something. I've seen a fellow runner places them in small trees that are in the skinny strip of land running down the middle of my neighborhood's 2 main streets. I'm fortunate enough to run by a golf course. There are a couple cart crossings that have water coolers about 50 feet from the road. I can refill here if I need too.
 
And a weird twist... The water bottles were returned this morning. Given the condition of the bag it appears they've been there overnight. One of the two ice packs was opened and two of the three water bottles had the tops popped open (not how I would leave them). Strange all around...

-Did the police take them and investigate them for drug purposes?
-Did a nefarious person take them, posion them, and put them back to try and kill me?
-Did a neighborhood kid take them and their adult yelled at them to put it back?
-Did a wildlife animal take the bag and then some neighbor found them elsewhere and put them back on the table for me since they've seen the bag there almost everyday for the last 1.5 years?

So many questions... I'm giving them a thorough cleaning before putting them back into rotation no matter what.
 
Bizarre! So you're really going to use them again?! Maybe it was a well meaning neighbor who thought someone was dropping off bottles of illicit substances (alcohol?) to ... someone else in the neighborhood and took them to check and then returned them when it was all clear. Probably why they also opened the ice packs. If it were the police I would assume they'd just toss them even if they tested them first, unless you have super nice cops. I guess it could be neighborhood kids. Hmmm, raccoons have been known to be pretty dexterous.

Also, congrats to you guys on your win!
 
Bizarre! So you're really going to use them again?! Maybe it was a well meaning neighbor who thought someone was dropping off bottles of illicit substances (alcohol?) to ... someone else in the neighborhood and took them to check and then returned them when it was all clear. Probably why they also opened the ice packs. If it were the police I would assume they'd just toss them even if they tested them first, unless you have super nice cops. I guess it could be neighborhood kids. Hmmm, raccoons have been known to be pretty dexterous.

Also, congrats to you guys on your win!

Yea, I'm going to soak them in hot soapy water, clean them in the dishwasher, and then boil them. If anything bad happened to them, those three things combined should take care of it. Yea, it's a relatively small town so I'd be surprised that if it were the cops that they would throw them away. I've seen almost everyone on the force during all of the time I spend running. Benefit of running so much I guess. Who knows, but I agree, bizarre!
 
Just got caught up on your thread. Learning the why's behind running gives me a sense of satisfaction. I started this plan on faith just doing the workout for the day because you said it would improve my skills. I've had some objective changes in my body and pace that are measurable. I'm gonna order a HRM right now so that I can measure more. I'm starting to integrate the why into the plan. It makes running more fun for me! Good stuff.

Have a great week!
 
Just got caught up on your thread. Learning the why's behind running gives me a sense of satisfaction. I started this plan on faith just doing the workout for the day because you said it would improve my skills. I've had some objective changes in my body and pace that are measurable. I'm gonna order a HRM right now so that I can measure more. I'm starting to integrate the why into the plan. It makes running more fun for me! Good stuff.

Have a great week!

I will always contest that knowing "why" is so important to becoming invested in the training plan. It helps you buy into why you've been scheduled to do each run. It's great to hear you're getting to that point. Wishing you the best during your taper week!
 
I figured it out. Your plans for the future. Your like an imaginear for running. So what do we call that?

Also, the 5k this morning didn't work out time-wise. Wished it had started one hour earlier. But at least it doesn't mess with my training plan this week.

Good luck down your home-stretch. And maybe some other runner thought you were leaving the bottles for them???
 












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