To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[BikeFan]

Sure was a new official PR (Disney was 21:02). I mean the 19:29 didn't suddenly disappear. It's clearly there under the surface, but I just haven't solved this 5k racing enigma. Too fast in the beginning and inevitable slow down. Or try to be more conservative on the start and seemingly hold too much back? I can't quite figure it out.

Congratulations on a new 5K PR! As for figuring that race out, I sympathize. I dislike the 5K for a bunch of reasons, but I respect it. It's just a darn hard, painful distance. As for "figuring it out", I've given up trying to run it smart (even splits) and just try to run it fast (focusing more on staying at that 99% effort level for as long as possible). Even my best 5K (18:45 last fall) wasn't a "smart" race - I was losing :10 every mile, but it was still my first sub-19, so I was overjoyed with the outcome. Looking back, that's pretty much how all my 5Ks have gone, with positive splits. Probably not optimal, but I think the 5K is such a short distance that in order to really do your best, you've got to actively risk the blow-up. You've got to spend the whole race thinking "this pace is too fast!" and then hoping you reach the finish before you're right. The 5K is the one race you want to be certain you left it all out on the course.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Congratulations on a new 5K PR!

Thanks!

As for figuring that race out, I sympathize. I dislike the 5K for a bunch of reasons, but I respect it. It's just a darn hard, painful distance. As for "figuring it out", I've given up trying to run it smart (even splits) and just try to run it fast (focusing more on staying at that 99% effort level for as long as possible). Even my best 5K (18:45 last fall) wasn't a "smart" race - I was losing :10 every mile, but it was still my first sub-19, so I was overjoyed with the outcome. Looking back, that's pretty much how all my 5Ks have gone, with positive splits. Probably not optimal, but I think the 5K is such a short distance that in order to really do your best, you've got to actively risk the blow-up. You've got to spend the whole race thinking "this pace is too fast!" and then hoping you reach the finish before you're right. The 5K is the one race you want to be certain you left it all out on the course.

That all makes sense. It seems like there is a very fine balance between proper pacing, leaving too much at the finish line, and knowing what it feels like to run that fast for that long. I know it's befuddled me over the last 3 weeks.

 

[BikeFan]

That all makes sense. It seems like there is a very fine balance between proper pacing, leaving too much at the finish line, and knowing what it feels like to run that fast for that long. I know it's befuddled me over the last 3 weeks.

As distance runners, we're so used to holding ourselves back, because we know if we go out too fast in a half or full, it's probably going to result in huge losses of time in the second half of the race. Therefore, the smart strategy is to err on the side of caution and stay on the side of too slow vs. too fast. I think the 5K is the exact opposite - to really master the distance, a runner has to err on the side of going too fast vs. too slow. It's a riskier approach, but it's worked for me.

I'd also guess that missing your goal in your 5K was the result of the intensity in your recent training, so don't worry too much about it. A little more rest and you've got a much better PR in you. I've seen big 5K gains resulting from marathon training (got my 18:45 5K PR 10 days after a 3:13 marathon PR), so you might want to see if there's another 5K a couple weeks after your target marathon in the fall. You could surprise yourself. Good luck!

 

[mankle30]

As distance runners, we're so used to holding ourselves back, because we know if we go out too fast in a half or full, it's probably going to result in huge losses of time in the second half of the race. Therefore, the smart strategy is to err on the side of caution and stay on the side of too slow vs. too fast. I think the 5K is the exact opposite - to really master the distance, a runner has to err on the side of going too fast vs. too slow. It's a riskier approach, but it's worked for me.

I'd also guess that missing your goal in your 5K was the result of the intensity in your recent training, so don't worry too much about it. A little more rest and you've got a much better PR in you. I've seen big 5K gains resulting from marathon training (got my 18:45 5K PR 10 days after a 3:13 marathon PR), so you might want to see if there's another 5K a couple weeks after your target marathon in the fall. You could surprise yourself. Good luck!

I was also wondering this -- perhaps the lack of a taper and doing the two time trials and then the 5k race has contributed to the gradual slowing of the times. Or I'm just wrong....

 

[canglim52]

Personally, I think this will really boost your marathon performance! You're speed has really grown a ton during this cycle. I bet you can take advantage of all this speed work and be really aggressive with your pacing when you go back to marathon training. Also, I think if you'd skipped the time trails and made your 5k a true "a" race it may have been lower than your current PR. Keep it up, it's truly enjoyable watching your relentless progress!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Happy to help and good luck on your 5k this week!

Hi Billy,
just checking in at the end of the week - A more stable week this week
Day 1 was 6:19/Klm Vs 6:22
Day 2 5:49/ Klm Vs 5:56
Day 3 WU was 6:45 ish Tempo was 5:16 and compared to last week much closer to the pace (Fastest 5:01 slowest 5:31) with CD @ 6:50ish
Day 4 LR (Today instead of Saturday) was 5:41 Vs 5:43 and again pretty tight to pace compared to last week.
All in all a good week I thought and felt pretty even - better adjusted to the changed running style but still getting used to it, and still not settled to it but definately progressed since the start. Looking forward to Tuesday night now - also just realised that my Official 5K PB (proper chiped time) is 24:35 and that my 22:48 was just my best 5k time.. so here's hoping for a proper PB on Tuesday [/QUOTE]

Looks like a very solid week of training! I'm excited to see how Tuesday goes!

As distance runners, we're so used to holding ourselves back, because we know if we go out too fast in a half or full, it's probably going to result in huge losses of time in the second half of the race. Therefore, the smart strategy is to err on the side of caution and stay on the side of too slow vs. too fast. I think the 5K is the exact opposite - to really master the distance, a runner has to err on the side of going too fast vs. too slow. It's a riskier approach, but it's worked for me.

I'd also guess that missing your goal in your 5K was the result of the intensity in your recent training, so don't worry too much about it. A little more rest and you've got a much better PR in you. I've seen big 5K gains resulting from marathon training (got my 18:45 5K PR 10 days after a 3:13 marathon PR), so you might want to see if there's another 5K a couple weeks after your target marathon in the fall. You could surprise yourself. Good luck!

Well, I am pacing @roxymama in a 10k two weeks after the marathon. So who knows, right?

I was also wondering this -- perhaps the lack of a taper and doing the two time trials and then the 5k race has contributed to the gradual slowing of the times. Or I'm just wrong....

The taper was there to an extent. Just dropped the hard workouts from 3 to 2 per week and doing about 20% less mileage. But for sure those three race like experiences have added up. So I think you're right.

Personally, I think this will really boost your marathon performance! You're speed has really grown a ton during this cycle. I bet you can take advantage of all this speed work and be really aggressive with your pacing when you go back to marathon training. Also, I think if you'd skipped the time trails and made your 5k a true "a" race it may have been lower than your current PR. Keep it up, it's truly enjoyable watching your relentless progress!

I sure hope so as that was the end goal of Daniels training. Raise that speed cap up, and hope it brings the endurance up with it. As for being aggressive on paces... we'll see. I know the best gains are made at current fitness levels, so I'm being cautious about trying to reach too far. I'm in the process of writing the plan right now and liking how it's taking shape. The 5k might have been better if it were itself an "A" race and without the time trials. But I'll take the 19:29 in the better weather because honestly who knows how it would have played out otherwise. I think I got my answer, speed has been raised. Now, I've just got to take that last step towards the "A" goal. It's been fun and thanks for following along!

 

[Declanb]

Looks like a very solid week of training! I'm excited to see how Tuesday goes

Thanks, will let you know.

 

[michigandergirl]

Congrats on the 5K PR Billy!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Congrats on the 5K PR Billy!

Thanks!

 

[DopeyBadger]

19 Days to Go (The running of the brats....)



Date - Day - Scheduled Workout (Intervals within desired pace, Strength +/- 5 sec, everything else +/- 10 sec)

5/23/17 - T - 11 miles @ JUST RUN.
5/24/17 - W - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile
5/25/17 - R - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile
5/26/17 - F - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile
5/27/17 - Sat - 4 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile + 6 strides
5/28/17 - Sun - Bunny Head 5k Time Trial #2
5/29/17 - M - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile

Total (training) mileage = 48.7 miles
Number of SOS intervals within pace = nd (nd%)

Monday's soccer class was the best yet. G participated somewhat and that's definitely an improvement. Afterwards we played at the park for 30 minutes. All in all a good training day.

Tuesday was a decision day.

T+D of 109, wind 6 mph, and a downpour!

So I signed up for a race on Saturday (Brat Fest 5k). This means only one Q workout this week. The decision came down to Tuesday or Wednesday? Tuesday was going to be a downpour, minimal wind, and extra day of easy running before a real race. Or Wednesday which has no rain, little colder, but wind of 16ish mph, and less rest. Because of the wind and less rest, I decided running in the rain was the better choice.

It was probably the heaviest rain I've ever run in. I decided to go with no set plan and just run. I was aiming for around long run to marathon tempo. I think given the results I was able to accomplish the goal of just running. Because of the rain though, I had to wear a rain jacket so that made it a little toasty. Overall, a solid run!



Wednesday was an easy day at an 8:55 min/mile with a 123 HR average.

Thursday was an easy day at an 8:55 min/mile with a 130 HR average. I was a tad concerned with the sudden jump in HR relative to pace as the T+D increased, but not by that much.

Friday was an easy day at an 8:45 min/mile with a 127 HR average. I also got a haircut in preparation for the race the next day. Steph and G got home that evening and it was nice to hear all about their trip. Sounds like they had a really fun time!

Saturday was the Brat Fest 5k.

Sunday was an easy day at an 8:32 min/mile with a 132 HR average. I tried a new breathing technique for me by trying to focus more on nose breathing than mouth breathing. I just held my mouth shut and just went for it. It was fine, but my nose would build up with mucus and make it hard to breathe. A work in progress to see if I can improve my breathing techniques.

Monday was an easy day at an 8:29 min/mile with a 132 HR average. I tried the breathing technique again. Still a bit uncomfortable.

Because of the seeming increase in fatigue I'm going to stick to two hard workouts per week until the Hot2Trot 10k in 3 weeks. I'm hoping this will help reset the fatigue and in addition get my mileage back up in prep for Lakefront training.

 

[ZellyB]

Congrats on your 5K PR!! And eating brats after with royalty can be nothing but a win!!

 

[mrsg00fy]

Congrats on the PR. (Again). It is fun to read along and see you continue to do so well and to share so much of your time, self and knowledge with others!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Congrats on your 5K PR!! And eating brats after with royalty can be nothing but a win!!

Thanks! Always a fun time to hang with royalty!

Congrats on the PR. (Again). It is fun to read along and see you continue to do so well and to share so much of your time, self and knowledge with others!

Thanks and thanks for reading! I quite enjoy sharing this journey and most certainly enjoy helping others achieve their dreams as well!

 

[Declanb]

Thanks, will let you know.

Well Billy - I started this evening with a 3.2 Klm WU to pre-empt my attempt at a PR the 5K Race, completly unsure how it was going to go. I felt good and was quietly confident of gettting close to 23 mins. I had read your own reports on your 5K and had noted the comments from everyone on their thoughts about how to tackle the pace. My own thoughts were to go out quick (as opposed to FAST) check the 1st Klm split and judge from there - Well, I was blown away with what happened - I finished in 21:18 More than 2 minutes quicker than I expected and more than a minute better than I dared Hope!.
My hope as I started was to hit 4:15 ish on k1 and maintain it as best I could from there.
So to the Race itself -
Klm 1 was hit in 3:55 which completly threw me, I didn't know what to make of it other than I had to slow down as I knew I wouldnt last at that pace (the 1st 3k is mostly an uphill gradient with the last 2 the oposite)
2nd Klm 4:17 - better and more relaxed but still a little worried so I settled in to get beyond the 3rd Klm and see what I had left for the run in.
3rd Klm was 4:36 so I was a little relieved and felt ready to maintain it and push on a little as I hit the downhill
At this point I gave up checking the split as my watch buzzed and concentrated on giving it my all
As I approached the finish I could see the clock and it was showing 21: something - couldn't believe it, and it gave me the impetus to keep pushing for the last 200. I crossed the line at 21:19 Delighted, spent, out of breath but elated.
When I Synced my watch at home the final 2 splits showed as 4:11 and 4:13 respectfully.
I simply didnt know I had it in me!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Well Billy - I started this evening with a 3.2 Klm WU to pre-empt my attempt at a PR the 5K Race, completly unsure how it was going to go. I felt good and was quietly confident of gettting close to 23 mins. I had read your own reports on your 5K and had noted the comments from everyone on their thoughts about how to tackle the pace. My own thoughts were to go out quick (as opposed to FAST) check the 1st Klm split and judge from there - Well, I was blown away with what happened - I finished in 21:18 More than 2 minutes quicker than I expected and more than a minute better than I dared Hope!.
My hope as I started was to hit 4:15 ish on k1 and maintain it as best I could from there.
So to the Race itself -
Klm 1 was hit in 3:55 which completly threw me, I didn't know what to make of it other than I had to slow down as I knew I wouldnt last at that pace (the 1st 3k is mostly an uphill gradient with the last 2 the oposite)
2nd Klm 4:17 - better and more relaxed but still a little worried so I settled in to get beyond the 3rd Klm and see what I had left for the run in.
3rd Klm was 4:36 so I was a little relieved and felt ready to maintain it and push on a little as I hit the downhill
At this point I gave up checking the split as my watch buzzed and concentrated on giving it my all
As I approached the finish I could see the clock and it was showing 21: something - couldn't believe it, and it gave me the impetus to keep pushing for the last 200. I crossed the line at 21:19 Delighted, spent, out of breath but elated.
When I Synced my watch at home the final 2 splits showed as 4:11 and 4:13 respectfully.
I simply didnt know I had it in me!

That is simply amazing! You absolutely crushed the prediction of 23:11 and it means we have completely missed the mark on assessing your current fitness. This should be where you train instead:



As you can see this predicts a 3:24:48 if we can get your endurance to match your current speed. Attached is an updated training plan that takes into account this fitness level. It has new pacing and new distances to match the intended durations of the workouts. Let me know if you have questions.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Congratulations traveler... You've purchased 4 new pairs of shoes that will allow you to traverse another 720-800 miles!

 

[McNs]

View attachment 240956

Congratulations traveler... You've purchased 4 new pairs of shoes that will allow you to traverse another 720-800 miles!

View attachment 240957

What does Mrs Badger make of all the running shoes?!?!

 

[DopeyBadger]

What does Mrs Badger make of all the running shoes?!?!

LOL! Mrs. Badger knows a few things about me. In general, I'm a frugal person. So in the grand scheme I don't spend that much. Running is about the only thing I spend money on. So when I buy shoes it's usually in bulk at the best deal I think I can get that ends up being a long term decision. I try to stretch it as much as possible, but with the goal of continuing this hobby.

Now on the other hand... We took some of G's clothes that were too small to Goodwill last year. This was the first trip we made there since G was born, so we had quite a bit of stuff to donate. But we donated 87 pairs of pants/tights.... 87?!?!?! for a kid that was barely two?!?!?! That single trip of just G's clothes had an estimated worth of $15,000 (or something astronomical like that). We're not rich by any means so I think that was a bit of an eye opener for both of us. To be fair, we weren't the sole purchases of clothes for her, but 87 pairs of pants/tights?!?!?

 

[ZellyB]

LOL! Mrs. Badger knows a few things about me. In general, I'm a frugal person. So in the grand scheme I don't spend that much. Running is about the only thing I spend money on. So when I buy shoes it's usually in bulk at the best deal I think I can get that ends up being a long term decision. I try to stretch it as much as possible, but with the goal of continuing this hobby.

Now on the other hand... We took some of G's clothes that were too small to Goodwill last year. This was the first trip we made there since G was born, so we had quite a bit of stuff to donate. But we donated 87 pairs of pants/tights.... 87?!?!?! for a kid that was barely two?!?!?! That single trip of just G's clothes had an estimated worth of $15,000 (or something astronomical like that). We're not rich by any means so I think that was a bit of an eye opener for both of us. To be fair, we weren't the sole purchases of clothes for her, but 87 pairs of pants/tights?!?!?

We had so many clothes gifted to us when we had our kids. I remember doing a photo shoot with my son when he was like 3 months old because he was so close to outgrowing clothes that we'd been given that I'd never had a chance to put on him, so I spent an afternoon changing him in and out of outfits and taking pictures.

 

[DopeyBadger]

We had so many clothes gifted to us when we had our kids. I remember doing a photo shoot with my son when he was like 3 months old because he was so close to outgrowing clothes that we'd been given that I'd never had a chance to put on him, so I spent an afternoon changing him in and out of outfits and taking pictures.

I have no idea what you're talking about.....