To DVC or not to DVC.... That is the question....

[peg110]

So we went through the "Show" for DVC. It seems like it could be a good deal if you go every single year. While I'd love to go every year (regardless if it's the Fort or the Polynesian), it's still expensive and DVC only really takes care of the "Accommodations"

It seems like the discounts offered are also offered on the AP or the TIW (for dining) and there is little more in the way of discounts that you could not get otherwise with the exception of the purchase of the AP where it's about $100 discount (and slightly less of a discount on renewals).

Even at the minimum points (currently at 50 for 40 years) , it's about $23K - $25K investment and that only gets you a week (or so) at the Fort every other year.

I'd love to hear others thoughts as to why it's a great deal to them or why it's a horrible idea. (Camping or not camping). According to the rep... it would only take about 6 - 8 vacations (ideally 1 a year) to "Break Even" but longer if we only used the Fort.

I just don't want to make a $25K mistake.

 

[dmaxphil]

We own DVC. Do not purchase to go to the Fort as it's an incredibly bad value using it for anything other than the DVC resorts. We purchased a loaded resale contract for around $60 per point - if I remember correctly. I ended up transferring a years worth of points (270) to another member for $14 per point - so we really did well initially. Each January we pay maintenance fees of about $1500 for those 270 points. Technically we could go on a 2-3 weeks worth of trips and stay in a standard studio, but it didn't work that way. (We got spoiled with 1-2br villas)

 

[bama_ed]

So the DVC Rep told you that you could use your points for a Fort Wilderness campsite?

Paul, that point been discussed here. http://www.disboards.com/threads/disney-vacation-club-points.3464041/#post-54782898

Sure, you can use points for a campsite IF (BIG BIG IF) there is a site-for-points available. You can't use points on any available site. It's like using discounts at the Fort. There's only so many sites that can be discounted. Not every one can have a discount applied to it. So using points for a campsite would be a rarity. Don't build your business case around that possibility.

I know we have some campers here on the board who own DVC. What I will say is that DVC ownership is best suited to a certain profile of WDW visitor. It is one who visits at least annually for a week paying for Moderate (hotel) accommodations. And don't forget the annual dues.

What the DIS DVC boards will say is that if you want to buy points to use at WDW, buy resale for a better deal basically. If you want to use points for Disney Cruises and other non DVC opportunities, you buy direct from Disney at a higher price per point. And there are ways to blend the two.

Personally I considered DVC and it didn't work financially for me because my profile is one camping trip to the Fort a year even with banking and borrowing.

Finally the perks (AP discounts, etc) are not part of the contract and can be taken away, changed (as they have), or otherwise altered at Disney's decision.

Bama Ed

PS - with the proliferation of renting DVC points, I would suggest using them to scratch that DVC itch. And although it is rarely a financial winner (owning DVC), paying cash helps the business case rather than financing. If you want to simply own a piece of the Mouse, that's fine too.

 

[dmaxphil]

Ideally you will only "save" money with DVC if you would have otherwise booked a package/room at the Deluxe resorts. If you will only stay at the Fort in an RV site, the cabins, or any moderate/value resort - the numbers will not work.

 

[peg110]

Sure, you can use points for a campsite IF (BIG BIG IF) there is a site-for-points available.

Interestingly enough, as I was reading through documentation, you can only book your "Home Resort" 11 months out and other DVC resorts (not your home) 7 months out. Couple that with what you have added, I doubt, given the time frame we like (Thanksgiving time frame), it's unlikely we would EVER get to the Fort on the DVC Points.

While I was trying to rationalize and evaluate the cost of the DVC versus not, it seemed like it could be a wash. So I asked for a list of the other "Discounts" and Perks that could make up the difference, and it was only available on the website. I could only get the anecdotal stories of customers who have saved.

At the "Meeting" I wanted to know about what we would pay/save. He gave a breakdown of what we would pay on DVC (all the dues and upfront fees. Everything except the financing fees if anything) and the cost was about $25K. He then compared it to a typical week at the fort for about $1k (A little high but close enough as we always do Premium), times 40 years (length of the term) and it's $40K (approximately) which would be a realization of about $15K savings (inflation not withstanding). The problem with the calculation is that 50 points will only get us "Every Other Year" so the $20K would a more accurate comparison. So it's the other discounts that could make or break it for us.

Admittedly they did say it would definitely take longer (if at all) to break even at the fort, and I get that. I am okay with other resorts as is the wife.

I like the premise of a yearly vacation, but I am not going to get that at 50 points a year. Maybe 150, but then the price points go up significantly.

While I think I am NOT going to sign up, I'd still like to hear others views. (good and bad)

 

[KristinU]

We owned DVC at the Boardwalk from 2000 to 2007, we loved it when we had it, but when we started running the numbers we realized that for the amount we were paying in annual dues we could be paying for a moderate. We did love the size of the rooms and the ability to relax in a living room that was separate from the bedroom, especially when DS was small. Anyway, it was a decent ROI and we were able to sell it easily when we were ready to sell. We bought our first pop up and put a porch on the house with the proceeds

Also, if you're looking at the discounts weighing on the decision, those come and go. When a friend bought in they got free passes. By the time we bought in there really weren't any discount offerings. Then they started offering discounted APs while we were owners and a few other little things...I guess my point is that the discounts can and do change over time.

The other thing is that now that we've found the Wyndham time share over at Bonnet Creek, if we were to buy into a timeshare again I think we'd give a resale of Wyndham a serious look. Those rooms kinda put the DVCs to shame. But again there, why buy when I can rent for about what the dues cost.

 

[MrInfinity]

So we went through the "Show" for DVC. It seems like it could be a good deal if you go every single year. While I'd love to go every year (regardless if it's the Fort or the Polynesian), it's still expensive and DVC only really takes care of the "Accommodations"

It seems like the discounts offered are also offered on the AP or the TIW (for dining) and there is little more in the way of discounts that you could not get otherwise with the exception of the purchase of the AP where it's about $100 discount (and slightly less of a discount on renewals).

Even at the minimum points (currently at 50 for 40 years) , it's about $23K - $25K investment and that only gets you a week (or so) at the Fort every other year.

I'd love to hear others thoughts as to why it's a great deal to them or why it's a horrible idea. (Camping or not camping). According to the rep... it would only take about 6 - 8 vacations (ideally 1 a year) to "Break Even" but longer if we only used the Fort.

I just don't want to make a $25K mistake.

I calculate the break-even is longer than 7 years. It's around 7 if you do some pro-DVC math and ignore things like what you would do with the money if it wasn't spent on DVC. And it's much longer than 7 years if you're buying direct. Guides tend to leave off the profit you'd earn by otherwise investing your money, and discounts you'll likely get by being resourceful in future bookings when pushing the DVC break-even point. When you do more realistic math, we were actually better off not buying DVC for a long time -- as long as we fit into a Deluxe room (5+1) we could stay for cheaper than buying or renting DVC. Once we outgrew that room, and we're looking at things like Poly or Contemporary suites, DVC becomes more advantageous. So for us, that's what did it. Compared to suites running $1200/night, it's a faster payoff.

The discounts are nice. AP discount goes from $750 to $550. The food discount is okay, around 10-20% depending on the restaurant, and if combined w the AP, tends to hit the 20% due to getting the better of the deals at each place. TIW is okay, but really not necessary once you have DVC and AP discounts, unless you think you'll make up the discount on alcohol. They should really just call this Drinks in Wonderland because the main selling feature is that it qualifies on alcohol. But you don't really buy it for the discounts.

If you want to go to WDW every year or two, then it could be a good value. Just depends on you. I wouldn't worry too much about it being a mistake... you are buying real property, so even if you decide you don't like it, you can just sell your property later and be out a small % of that $25k.

 

[North of Mouse]

Ideally you will only "save" money with DVC if you would have otherwise booked a package/room at the Deluxe resorts. If you will only stay at the Fort in an RV site, the cabins, or any moderate/value resort - the numbers will not work.

My view is close to this! Only 'Deluxe' pricing will show you anything close to 'savings'! Of course, for us it would never work - would never spend those prices on a hotel. We love our mh and will stay no where else except in emergency situations. Also, a 'big' reason is our 'DVC' (timeshare) goes 'anywhere' we want - not limited to Disney.

We can do a lot of vacationing with the membership dues alone. True, we made the initial investment also, but it started many years ago. And, unless you pay cash, you have to figure in those pesky interest $$'s every year!

Our dd bought at Boardwalk several years ago when Disney was sort of 'testing' the waters (they did have Key West) and she got an excellent deal. She now uses her rv as much as the DVC because of her pets. She could easily sell her points though, so guess that would be another angle if it doesn't work out for you.

Good luck on your decision!
(Another way would be to 'bank' the amount of the monthly payments plus dues and enjoy a 'yearly vacation' that way!!) Many people love it, so it's definitely a personal decision, and not a 'one size fits all'!!

 

[5kidsmommy]

We looked at it because my husband knows I love Disney but honestly we can't stomach the price of moderates or deluxe and we love traveling in our trailer so it was a no go for us. We have friends that have owned for years but they have one child (we have 5) and they travel often, plus they prefer to stay in deluxe and would never camp. That's just not us. Plus we camp during off season so owning DVC would still cost us more than what we pay for our FW campsite.

 

[peg110]

As I was talking with the DW last night about this, the big point for her is the amount of time to "Reserve" your spot. It has become clear that there is limited space at the Fort for DVC, plus add in the fact that you can only reserve 7 months out (for other than your "Home" property which you can reserve 11 months out), it becomes quite challenging. With her work, she needs to "Compete" to get her time off, in that it's a "First Come, First Serve" situation. If she goes, she needs coverage. If those that "Cover" her also want vacation at the same time then someone gets rejected. So she needs to have confirmed reservations at least 1 year in advance. Doing otherwise can be a challenge. That at least was her biggest complaint.

When I talked to her about NOT doing it (we are in the "Review" period) she indicated that she was going to go to Disney with or without the DVC and that it was my decision. Right now at the "Bottom" rung, the 40 year time frame would cost me about $22K to $25K but that's only enough points to go to the fort (if we could get it) ever OTHER year. If we wanted to go every year we would have to "Double" the points, which then "Doubles" the cost/fees. The math just doesn't work. As others have pointed out, we can get our vacation (accommodations) for the cost of the "Dues" (taxes/maintenance).

 

[bama_ed]

Paul,

What 5kidsmommy said goes for me too. We like camping and are going to camp regardless of DVC or not. I like to say that my camper is my cabin in the woods, my condo at the beach, and my Disney timeshare.

That also reminds me of what a co-worker said to me once. We are about 4-5 hours from the Gulf Coast beaches so I know a few people who own condos down at the beach. Anyway, this co-worker, when I asked him what he was doing this upcoming weekend, said "Well, I guess I'm going to the beach". He didn't sound too happy about it and I said so. He explained that he liked going to the beach but given the cost of the place (dues, mortgage, gas money back-and-forth, etc.) it had squeezed out the idea of taking a weekend trip to the Smokies, Nashville, or New Orleans (financially speaking). (To finish the story, his complex got blown away in one of the hurricanes of the last decade and he collected the insurance money and later bought another beach condo).

And the booking period, like you say, is key. If you need to make these types of vacations a year in advance, the 7 month window won't do.

Bama Ed

PS - I'm still pushing my Camp Davy Crockett DVC Campground idea across the road from Fort Wilderness in the direction of EPCOT. It would have big pull through sites, paved patios, and more.

 

[peg110]

I'm still pushing my Camp Davy Crockett DVC Campground idea across the road from Fort Wilderness in the direction of EPCOT. It would have big pull through sites, paved patios, and more.

I think it would be AWESOME for Disney to expand the campground across the road with DRIVE THROUGH sites as a focus. Sure if you didn't need a drive through you could still use it though.

I know my DW gets stressed EVERY TIME I have to back the TT ANYWHERE. Especially the new one that is now 37 foot.

 

[ruthies12]

I'm still mad at the DVC people cause I sat through an hour long phone call with them once when I was promised a $40 Disney gift card and I never got my gift card! Ticked me off!! I listened to their whole spiel and did the math myself and I could not get it to work out in my favor at all with staying at the Fort, and since the Fort and Pop Century are my two favorite resorts it really made no sense for us.

 

[North of Mouse]

I'm still mad at the DVC people cause I sat through an hour long phone call with them once when I was promised a $40 Disney gift card and I never got my gift card! Ticked me off!! I listened to their whole spiel and did the math myself and I could not get it to work out in my favor at all with staying at the Fort, and since the Fort and Pop Century are my two favorite resorts it really made no sense for us.

The ones that I've stopped by to talk to at their Kiosks have been pretty upfront about the value being in staying at the deluxes. Some people will only stay there in spite of the mostly outrageous (IMO) nightly rates. The supposed savings is directed to those hotels.

About the $40 GC promotion from a few years ago. I did receive one, but was on the phone only about 10 min. They were extremely nice and just gave me some info, sent the rest, then asked us to call if we were more interested. I would have contacted them had I not received the promised GC.

 

[peg110]

Well, I got a call yesterday afternoon by a DVC rep asking if I had received the material (documents to sign, contracts, point books, etc...) and I indicated that I had reviewed them and that my DW and I decided that it was not for us. I was totally surprised that the person on the phone was very polite and did not try to coerce us into it. They just stated that they will start the cancellation process and that later that day, I would receive another call to confirm I was cancelling.

Indeed a few hours later, another very polite call confirming everything and telling me that if I was interested in the future, that they would love to have us.

Right now, I don't think the DVC is for us. Could I see us using it in the future? Sure, but since we are not in the "Deluxe" mode now, it just won't work for us.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. It really did help out our decision.

 

[ruthies12]

The ones that I've stopped by to talk to at their Kiosks have been pretty upfront about the value being in staying at the deluxes. Some people will only stay there in spite of the mostly outrageous (IMO) nightly rates. The supposed savings is directed to those hotels.

About the $40 GC promotion from a few years ago. I did receive one, but was on the phone only about 10 min. They were extremely nice and just gave me some info, sent the rest, then asked us to call if we were more interested. I would have contacted them had I not received the promised GC.

Glad to hear somebody got the promised card! I should have called, but it slipped my mind too many times and then just got too late.

peg110 I think you made the right call. My sister-in-law is a DVC member and loves it, but its definitely not for everybody.....kinda like the dining plan!

 

[Judique]

So we went through the "Show" for DVC. It seems like it could be a good deal if you go every single year. While I'd love to go every year (regardless if it's the Fort or the Polynesian), it's still expensive and DVC only really takes care of the "Accommodations"

It seems like the discounts offered are also offered on the AP or the TIW (for dining) and there is little more in the way of discounts that you could not get otherwise with the exception of the purchase of the AP where it's about $100 discount (and slightly less of a discount on renewals).

Even at the minimum points (currently at 50 for 40 years) , it's about $23K - $25K investment and that only gets you a week (or so) at the Fort every other year.

I'd love to hear others thoughts as to why it's a great deal to them or why it's a horrible idea. (Camping or not camping). According to the rep... it would only take about 6 - 8 vacations (ideally 1 a year) to "Break Even" but longer if we only used the Fort.

I just don't want to make a $25K mistake.

I've been a DVC member for almost 17 years and I think it's great for me.

But, I can't see it being a good deal for you if you want to stay at the Fort using points.

Now, if every year you stayed at the Polynesian or the Grand Floridian and you were looking for a way to stay there slightly cheaper, it might be worth it.

Looking at the figures above there is something wrong with the math - 50 points would be more like $8250 - 150 would be $24750 without any discount. But that doesn't negate the fact that most people who have answered have all given you good opinions.

Most DVC owners will agree that 'buy where you want to stay' is what makes DVC work for you.

You can always rent points and try out the system that way - see if you can get that campsite reservation on points at 7 months.

Bg

 

[dmaxphil]

I've been a DVC member for almost 17 years and I think it's great for me.

But, I can't see it being a good deal for you if you want to stay at the Fort using points.

Now, if every year you stayed at the Polynesian or the Grand Floridian and you were looking for a way to stay there slightly cheaper, it might be worth it.

Looking at the figures above there is something wrong with the math - 50 points would be more like $8250 - 150 would be $24750 without any discount. But that doesn't negate the fact that most people who have answered have all given you good opinions.

Most DVC owners will agree that 'buy where you want to stay' is what makes DVC work for you.

You can always rent points and try out the system that way - see if you can get that campsite reservation on points at 7 months.

Bg

I haven't done the math, but I think the OP was adding in 40 years of maintenance fees on the 50 points.

 

[Cousin Ed C]

In 2006 we bought enough points to stay at the Fort for the winter ( I was a cast member and they also had a great sale going on). We were told you might not be able to get the whole time on points. That was a very big understatement. The year we bought we stayed the next two months on points. Since then we have not stayed a total of two months on points. I think they might have lied to us.
We use all our points by supplying vacations for our children and "renting points" to friends. They also make great gifts to our important people.
If we knew we could use them as planned we might not have bought them..... but the deal was so good at the time, we might have anyway.

 

[peg110]

I haven't done the math, but I think the OP was adding in 40 years of maintenance fees on the 50 points.

Yup. 40 years of maintenance was included with an approximate 2% annual increase as was indicated by the DVC Rep. I did NOT include the financing costs. While the financing was amortized over 10 years we would probably have paid it off in 2 or 3, however if done over the 10 years, the cost of the 50 points would have almost doubled with the added financing fees (thus further inhibiting the break even point).