To Disney: Stop Making Sequels....

TinyLolitaBunny

Mouseketeer
Joined
May 12, 2005
Messages
306
And start making more creative, original, and quality animation again! Open the Feature Film Animation Studio again...

[PETETION DELETED BY SARANGEL]
 
TinyLolitaBunny said:
And start making more creative, original, and quality animation again! Open the Feature Film Animation Studio again...

[PETETION DELETED BY SARANGEL]

Heck with just disney, All of hollywood needs to stop on sequals. Problem is trying to get it done via petition is impossible, and trying to do a petition by petitiononline is laughable :D
 
I disagree. There is nothing inherently wrong with sequels as long as they are done with the same quality as the original (note: Toy Story & Toy Story 2). Certainly new ideas are preferred but personally I want quality which I agree we are seeing a complete lack of.

People flock to the movies to see crap just because of the hype it has been given and this is just bad. Perhaps the bottom will soon fall out of the 'movie market' and talent rather than hype can again be appreciated.
pirate:
 
Perhaps, let's clarify that we want Disney to quit making direct to video sequels that are so inferior to an original production that it is obvious that it is just cashing in on whatever money it can generate.

Toy Story 2 started as a direct to video sequel, but then, they realized that somehow, someway, they were accidently making a quality film, rather than just another crap "cash-in" video. So, they released it theatrically.

But, as long as there is profit, and the sole focus is on the immediate $, there's little chance of anything happening.
 

I don't think profit is the sole focus with most releases but the profit picture has way too much influence on what and how things get made (tie ins, focus groups, PC). It's time once again to let movie makers do their job and I'm talking about real movie makers, the hungry up and comers still looking for respect, not Spielberg, Howard, Lucas or Bruckheimer...Their egos could fill a football stadium and most of their work is far inferior to what they once were. As artists I'd think they'd be ashamed.

As to direct to video I guess I'm always the lone wolf here as I don't see them as diminishing the brand. Neither do I see them as art. In fact I see them as a commodity barely affiliated with the real motion picture process. Perhaps my assesment is incorrect but because I see them simply as money makers and nothing for me to concern myself with (good or bad) they just don't bother me.

pirate:
 
As to direct to video I guess I'm always the lone wolf here as I don't see them as diminishing the brand.
It an interesting question. I tend to agree with you, provided they are ONLY released DTV. Problem is, several were released in theaters, which I have no doubt does diminish the brand.

The original theatrical releases have been sub-par as well, which of course has also diminished the brand.

So its difficult to say with any certainty how big the DTV affect is.

I see them simply as money makers and nothing for me to concern myself with (good or bad) they just don't bother me.
I think the problem is that its very difficult for a company like Disney to remain "true to its soul" with some animation, while commoditizing other animation. If both could exist without having any impact on the other, and senior management was able to remove its "commoditizing hat" whenever they dealt with feature animation, then maybe. But its pretty clear to me that too much of that commoditizing strategy has permeated feature animation strategy.

I don't think that this is the ONLY reason Disney's feature animation has gone downhill, but I truly believe it is a significant factor.

I could be ok with DTV sequels under the right circumstances. Sure, the budgets won't be feature animation-sized, but they still need to be quality in every other respect and that simply does not happen. I think their "low quality" is just one result of an overall strategic problem.
 
No doubt they're addressing that strategic problem as we speak, but it may not really be all that substantial to tackle.

The more DTV saturates the market, the more it distinguishes itself from feature film.

The main issue with Disney feature animation is that the company left the game years ago.

This will be the primary focus going forward and was most likely Mr. Iger's key bargaining chip with Roy Disney.
 
I used to think that Disney was making direct to video sequels as a way to make a quick dollar. I used to think that Disney made ride like Magic Carpets and Tri.Spin as a way to fill space and make a quick dollar...now I have kids. My 3yr old DS loves any Disney movie. One of his favorites was Return to Neverland. And we couldn't even walk past a spinning ride.

My point is this, Disney is doing these things to appeal to th young kid market, not us old people.
 
Yep, that's the point all right. They know the little kids can't tell the difference, so they slap together more direct to video and duplicate rides. But the parents can. And what happens when these kids grow up, and then they think these cheap videos and ride duplicates are wonderful, not knowing the quality the previous generation had? Only a few will dig deep enough and find out. Then the world will just be a world of clones, with only a few new ideas or new entertainment popping up here and there. Personally, starting with Lion King 1 1/2, I stopped buying any and all direct-to-video sequels. If they want my money, they're going to have to make a quality product, release it in the theaters, and then I will happily purchase the dvd.
 
No doubt they're addressing that strategic problem as we speak, but it may not really be all that substantial to tackle.
No doubt. However, I think our definitions of substantial must be a tad different. Going from the undisputed king of feature animation for over 50 years to a debateable #2 or #3 is pretty substantial in my book. This isn't something where you just flick a switch and turn the hits back on.

The more DTV saturates the market, the more it distinguishes itself from feature film.
Nice thought, but the average consumer isn't that sophisticated. Disney is Disney. The more "crud" they see with the Disney name the more their opinion of the name diminishes.

The main issue with Disney feature animation is that the company left the game years ago.
In the sense that they left what made them successful, yes. However, they have reamined "in the game", albeit poorly, in every other sense.

This will be the primary focus going forward and was most likely Mr. Iger's key bargaining chip with Roy Disney.
Bargaining chip? Roy's fight was done, and he filed a lawsuit to gain some leverage against Iger so he could get back in the door. Roy was finished and Iger knew it. However, its was still in Iger's best interest to get rid of the lawsuit, however winable it was for the company. So he gave Roy a meaningless title and position to end the business once and for all. Roy had hardly any input into animation before his departure. Now he has none.

The status of the animation unit had nothing to do with it.

And what happens when these kids grow up, and then they think these cheap videos and ride duplicates are wonderful, not knowing the quality the previous generation had?
Oh, I don't think they will find them wonderful at all. Sure, the then grown-ups will have a soft spot for them, just as we do for things we watched/did as kids. But unless those products have the quality and appeal to grab adults as well as kids, those products will be nothing more than a fond memory.

THAT is the difference.
 
I'm on the side that thinks 98% of the sequels are abominations. Cinderella 2? Um, didn't the first one end happily ever after? It just seems like such a blatant attempt to make a buck.

I understand that these are for kids who love Disney and can't tell the difference, but Disney should be thinking long term. I am 22 years old and have so many Beauty and the Beast snowglobes, ceramics, etc that it borders on obsessive. All of this purchased long after my childhood ended with my own money. I certainly wouldn't be doing this if all I had seen was the Beauty and the Beast Christmas movie.

Kids can't tell the difference, so why don't they make movies that reach more than one demographic, like they used to? I love the Pixar movies, but I really miss the quality "classically animated" movies. I consider Hunchback the last great Disney movie. Maybe it's just because all the "new" classics (Little Mermaid to Hunchback) came out during the height of my childhood and I'm sentimental, but those were great times. Every year you knew a great new Disney movie was coming. Now there is nothing.
 
Nice thought, but the average consumer isn't that sophisticated.

Bull. That's complete wishful thinking on your part to assume the average retailer can't distinguish between a DTV being put out on the market for kids and a feature film released on DVD.

Heck the tech generation - who went to the movies and watched TV while this product division was developed, and became the TEST MARKET for this segment - are ten times more sophisticated than anybody when it comes to perusing the retail shelves for consumer products of this nature.

It doesn't diminish the brand.

Remember it's not about us. It's about who's next.

Roy's fight was done,

There are alot of people on these boards who will disagree with you on this - but I'm not one of them.

I never believed he was in it beyond Eisner. But don't think for one minute the company didn't need to make amends here. Just because he was on the outs with no leverage, he was still a Disney causing trouble for the company with enough wind to raise a few soundbites here and there even if it was futile. How can the company even begin to show an about face when this act was still going on?

They needed his support. He wasn't giving it lightly. He got something for that white flag and I believe it lies in a promise regarding animation.
 
I do like quite a few Disney sequels including, Return of Jafar, Simba's Pride, Return to Neverland and Toy Story 2 but some of the other's are only really worth watching once if you know what i mean. I think Disney could do a better job with sequels but i don't think they should get rid of them all together. :)

Donna
 
Bull. That's complete wishful thinking on your part to assume the average retailer can't distinguish between a DTV being put out on the market for kids and a feature film released on DVD.

Clearly they can tell the difference between the products, but the brand name remainst he same for both.

Its partly subconcious, but when you keep seeing a brand name slapped all over cruddy products, its going to affect your perception of the brand. That is unavoidable.

Now, to a certain extent I agree with you. You can mitigate that affect through using different marketing and distribution channels. Certainly a bad DTV film does not have the same negative impact on the brand that a box office bomb does. No doubt about that.

However, Disney has released several of these DTV films in theaters, and that has done significant damage. Plus, the sheer number of these DTV movies has a cumulative impact as well. Like I said, the impact of one bad DTV film doesn't equal the impact of one bad box office film, but Disney flooded the market with these things, and there's no doubt the cumulative impact is not negligible.

Just like anything good enhances a brand, anything bad detracts from it. You simply can't have one without the other. That's the danger of focusing on "leveraging the brand".

I'm not saying they shouldn't make the DTV sequels. But I do think they would be far better off in many ways if they put more effort into them. No, not give them feature-type budgets, but there most certainly needs to be more focus on the stories instead of on "leveraging the franchise".

Yes, the public does understand that a DTV film isn't going to be the same as a feature film. However, that understanding only goes so far, and Disney has most definitely crossed that line.
 
They needed his support. He wasn't giving it lightly. He got something for that white flag and I believe it lies in a promise regarding animation.

I hope he got it in writing...

I don't think it was so much that they needed his support as it was they preferred not to deal with a stone in their shoe. Roy maximized what leverage he had left by filing the lawsuit, but it still wasn't enough to get anything significant.

Of course, I could be wrong. Eisner didn't truly "care" about animation, and its certainly possible Iger doesn't either. Yes, I'm sure they care about the money it can make and the capital it requires, but that's no different than any other investment. So I suppose its possible there maybe some kind of agreement with regard to animation, but that's speculation to the extreme right now.

Plus, who knows what that agreement would even be? The word/speculation has been that if Chicken Little succeeds, all will be well in the animation division for awhile. But if it fails...
 
Well those suits can call it a "brand" if they want to, but that MBA stuff will only take you so far in a business like Disney. Those MBA business plans work great if you're buying and reselling widgets, but not in a company where a lot of your products are expected to be one-of-a-kind prototypes of great quality. The money in the quality prototypes is not short term, it's something that sells and sells and sells consistently over decades, giving you back many times more than the cost, but over a very long period, like the rides originally invented for Disneyland. And then you've got the kinds of people like Paul Pressler who come in and slash costs for a few years to look good and then move on to the next large corporation.

I think what Disney really needs to do is start being very careful of who they hire, and what the positions are. They need people who really care about Disney for the long haul, not people who necessarily have fancy degrees, or want to add "VP of xxx department at the Walt Disney Company" to their resume.
 
hey! that's my petition, thanks lolitabunny. it was interesting to see what others had to say about it. I must clarify though, the petition is for the cheapquels, the petition is not to stop movies like Toy Story 2, but it is to stop movies like Toy Story 3. So people who didn't sign it becuase of that they can go ahead. Also for those who find nothing wrong with the cheapquels then read the petition, it only takes about 5 minutes but has a lot of points against them. I know some smaller kids might like them, but really Disney movies should be for everybody and there are plenty of kids who prefer the classics and for Disney to create new things. Alright and finally, I know it is an electronic petition but it still can really have an impact, other petitions on the same server have done things and this petition can be a stepping stone that leads into other things. So go ahead, sign it, Lolitabunny got the URL in her post....but anyways, this looks like one of the best Disney boards on the web, I'm glad to be on it.
 
Sorry, Above_the_Rim & Lolitabunny - one of the rules of the DIS is that we are not allowed to solicit signatures, e-mails, etc. on the boards. I've been out of town this week (at Disneyland's 50th anniversary), so it stayed up for longer than it would have otherwise. I've left the discussion as it stands because it contains many excellent points.

Sarangel
 
I think a key point being lost is that the classics appealed to BOTH children and adults when they were originally released (and continue to do so). These cheap sequels, while appealing to youngsters, have the long term effect of bringing the brand down.
 


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