To buy or not to buy....that is the question

[CES Mouse]

Hi all. I am new to the forum and am seeking your input on your decision to become DVC members. We are Disney Fanatics (got married there and usually go once or twice a year), but are not DVC members. BLT is very tempting to us for obvious reasons. I know we will not save money given the way we vacation, so that's not a reason to buy (or not). We do have the money to pay for it in the bank, but of course the economy is not the best. So, are most of you happy that you took the plunge? Does anyone have any idea how long it takes to sell on average if you decide to sell it? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dd08]

Hi all. I am new to the forum and am seeking your input on your decision to become DVC members. We are Disney Fanatics (got married there and usually go once or twice a year), but are not DVC members. BLT is very tempting to us for obvious reasons. I know we will not save money given the way we vacation, so that's not a reason to buy (or not). We do have the money to pay for it in the bank, but of course the economy is not the best. So, are most of you happy that you took the plunge? Does anyone have any idea how long it takes to sell on average if you decide to sell it? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Your timing isn't the best right now. You might want to take some answers with a grain of salt. (go to the Planning board and 2010 point charts threads to see what I'm talking about)

Many may tell you that if you won't save money, then don't do it.

We too new personally to give good advice except that DW's Aunt, Uncle and some cousins all have been DVC for quite some time (Aunt and Uncle since the beginning) and they encouraged us to buy.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[CES Mouse]

Thanks. I did see the news about the 2010 charts a short while ago. We usually stay for both a few weeknights and the weekend, so not a huge difference I suppose.

 

[dd08]

Thanks. I did see the news about the 2010 charts a short while ago. We usually stay for both a few weeknights and the weekend, so not a huge difference I suppose.

Yeah, for us personally it's not going to be a big difference as we are "week-long" travelers, a couple points difference here and there, for us is no biggie.

Another reason why it won't be a biggie for us is that there will be some years that we will probably trade-out to RCI. Which by the way most will tell you not to do as it's not the best value for your points, but we won't vacation at WDW every year and if we bank then we would have more points than we know what to do with at this point in our lives and the forseeable future.

A lot of people are affected by the change, however, and I just wanted to prepare you that if you start getting a lot of "no, don't buy"s that there is a reason behind it right now.

 

[DisneyDreamers2007]

We bought 150 BWV points last September and couldn't be happier. We already have our big family trip planned for next May. If we had money in the bank to buy it, I would definitely be buying some GCV points since we live in the Northwest. But I'm glad we bought last September, since hard times have come for us since then and we would not have been able to make the same purchase now. In fact, I had just pulled that money out of GM in September to purchase DVC, so that money would have only 30% of it's value now had we kept it in there with our other savings. Boy do I wish I would have taken all our savings out and bought a couple thousand points instead of watching it go down with Wall Street.

Anyway, while all other vacations have been taken off the schedule this year, we will still be doing the WDW trip (and Disneyland next month that will be paid for mostly by my husbands company for a conference trip). It's nice to have the DVC accommodations covered at WDW and it gave us a little push to get away and have a vacation when we might not otherwise. Every situation is different, and you'll have to carefully weigh your the future of your jobs and emergency savings available, but we both love Disney and are really happy with our DVC purchase. Since we always stayed at the Boardwalk anyways and bought resale, our Excel sheet figured that we would recover the cost of our purchase in about 7 years.

Hope something in there helps your decision! Have a magical day

 

[Cmbar]

Hi all. I am new to the forum and am seeking your input on your decision to become DVC members. We are Disney Fanatics (got married there and usually go once or twice a year), but are not DVC members. BLT is very tempting to us for obvious reasons. I know we will not save money given the way we vacation, so that's not a reason to buy (or not). We do have the money to pay for it in the bank, but of course the economy is not the best. So, are most of you happy that you took the plunge? Does anyone have any idea how long it takes to sell on average if you decide to sell it? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Just Curious.... Why don't you think you will save money?

We are in the same boat (I already have a referral ). Our problem now is that we just don't know if this is the best time to buy into BLT. I like the $5 off, but not too thrilled about the developer points at SSR. I think SSR will be really crowded with everybody having to stay there before 10.9.09. I have heard some rumors about a "friends and family" promotion that may come out. UGH We are finally ready to buy and now I can't decide whether to buy in yet! Now with all the changes, I am getting cold feet that what I buy into won't be the same in a few years. Does anyone think the economy will result in a major shut down of Disney. I already heard they are backing down their hours and shutting down shows like Fantasmic a few days a week.

 

[dd08]

Does anyone think the economy will result in a major shut down of Disney. I already heard they are backing down their hours and shutting down shows like Fantasmic a few days a week.

This is a possibility, but along those same lines, if you are looking to travel anywhere there would be "doomsday" scenarios...

7 dollars/gallon gas...
Fewer and fewer airline flights that cost more and more...
More hotels, restuarants, other theme parks, etc closing shop...
The list can go on.

yes WDW is cutting hours and shows to save some $$ in this environment, but to me that's a fiscally responsible move right now until the economy and their bottom line turns around.

That being said, to the OP, I'm not trying to influence you to buy, if you have the money to comfortably buy, I wouldn't let the fear of Disney collapsing scare you. Wherever you put that money it could go down the toliet....

 

[Cmbar]

This is a possibility, but along those same lines, if you are looking to travel anywhere there would be "doomsday" scenarios...

That being said, to the OP, I'm not trying to influence you to buy, if you have the money to comfortably buy, I wouldn't let the fear of Disney collapsing scare you. Wherever you put that money it could go down the toliet....

Good Point!! I know I am not going to put that money in the Stock Market! I could have bought DVC plenty of times by now with the amounts I am loosing in all my investments. Ouch! At least this investment will be fun!!

 

[disfanforlife]

We bought 150 BWV points last September and couldn't be happier. We already have our big family trip planned for next May. If we had money in the bank to buy it, I would definitely be buying some GCV points since we live in the Northwest. But I'm glad we bought last September, since hard times have come for us since then and we would not have been able to make the same purchase now. In fact, I had just pulled that money out of GM in September to purchase DVC, so that money would have only 30% of it's value now had we kept it in there with our other savings. Boy do I wish I would have taken all our savings out and bought a couple thousand points instead of watching it go down with Wall Street.

Anyway, while all other vacations have been taken off the schedule this year, we will still be doing the WDW trip (and Disneyland next month that will be paid for mostly by my husbands company for a conference trip). It's nice to have the DVC accommodations covered at WDW and it gave us a little push to get away and have a vacation when we might not otherwise. Every situation is different, and you'll have to carefully way your the future of your jobs and emergency savings available, but we both love Disney and are really happy with our DVC purchase. Since we always stayed at the Boardwalk anyways and bought resale, our Excel sheet figured that we would recover the cost of our purchase in about 7 years.

Hope something in there helps your decision! Have a magical day

I feel the same way. I wish that we had taken out more money from our mutual funds to buy more DVC points than we did. At least it would still be worth more and we would get to enjoy it, not cry when I read our fund reports!

 

[Deb & Bill]

We bought in 1997 and paid about $50 a point for our OKW points from DVC directly. I would never in a million years spend $100+ a point. I'm sorry, but it's just not worth it. When you try to sell, unless you can find a buyer yourself and not go through a resale agent, you will also be obligated to pay the reselling agent 10-12% commission. You will also be competing with Disney who can offer incentives to purchase and other sellers who just might want a bit less per point.

Don't buy now with a plan to sell anytime soon or I think you would be sorely disappointed.

On top of the purchase price, you also have to pay annual member fees (for maintenance, taxes, etc) per point. Right now they are in the range of $4-6 a point. They continue to go up each year. Plus you still have to get there, you still have to eat and you still have to buy park tickets.

 

[wandalicious]

My experience has been that everyone I've talked to who is a DVC member is always happy (well, they are usually on vacation) that they are members and say things like, "we should have done this years ago!"

This year will be our fifth year visiting WDW, usually once a year, sometimes twice, and we are DL annual pass holders, as we live less than three miles from the original park. That being said, I could have been a DVC club member for all the dollars I've spent in the last five years! I can't think that it's a bad investment!

If something "happens" you can rent your points or give them to a family member - and yes, it will force you to take a nice vacation each year. If you are looking for an investment that makes money, I don't think a timeshare is it, but if you are going to DL or WDW each year (as we do), then I think it would DEFINITELY be worth it to buy resale.

That being said, I'm a newbie like you, and am also evaluating the pros/cons of buying this year.

Good luck!

 

[JimMIA]

I have several comments to offer.

The first is, this is a public discussion board devoted to things Disney. Disney is a wonderful place, and the people here are all huge fans of Walt Disney World. Therefore, if anything, you are likely to be getting responses which are filtered through very rose-colored lenses. Most of us have a difficult time criticizing Disney.

Saving Money
The second comment has to do with saving money. We enjoy our DVC, but in the long run, I suspect it has cost us -- not saved us -- money. That's not entirely bad, because some of the increased cost comes from visiting more often and enjoying higher quality vacations than we did previously. I know it's cost us more...but I can't say the decision (when we made it) was a bad decision.

I think the best way to evaluate the effect of DVC on cost is to think of it as more or less locking in your lodging cost (subject to some inflation on annual dues, of course). I don't look at DVC as a cost-saver, and I certainly don't look at it as an investment. For us, our costs other than lodging have gone significantly up, not down.

Changes in DVC
My third comment relates to DD08's first post to this thread -- the comment about 2010 points costs changes. To us, this week's change may (or may not) be that big a deal. We'll see if and when the Mouse finally figures out what they're doing.

But this week's change is almost irrelevent. The problem we have is there has been a steady stream of changes for about two years now. Many of the basic fundamentals of DVC ownership have changed over the last two years -- always to DVC's financial benefit, and often to our detriment. Some of the changes have been positive, but frankly, most have diminished the value of our DVC ownership. The changes are invariably presented as "improving the ownership experience" or similar drivel, but the obvious truth is they are designed to improve DVC's bottom line.

(I'm a little surprised, frankly, that nobody has started a thread outlining all of the changes over the last couple of years, including explaining the positive and negative impacts on owners. Such a thread would be helpful to new folks considering a DVC purchase.)

The problem with the changes for a prospective buyer is that you don't really know what you're buying. DVC today is very different from the DVC we bought just five years ago -- and I have NO idea what it will be five years from now.

Honestly, if someone asked me today whether I recommend a DVC purchase, I'd tell them no for that reason alone.

Value/Price
I also share Deb's concern with the inflated prices of DVC today...although I'm sure she thought I was nuts when we paid $73! The huge difference is, between 1993 and 2007, DVC consistently increased in value. The last year +, the opposite has been true. The value of a DVC contract has been sliding for a while.

We bought five years ago, and today, our points are selling for less than we paid for them. 2009 is very different from 1993, and prospective purchasers should consider the possibility that they may be buying at the very peak. A time when Disney is increasing their "new" price, but the resale market is tanking, is not an ideal situation if you are buying direct from Disney.

 

[dd08]

I have several comments to offer.

The first is, this is a public discussion board devoted to things Disney. Disney is a wonderful place, and the people here are all huge fans of Walt Disney World. Therefore, if anything, you are likely to be getting responses which are filtered through very rose-colored lenses. Most of us have a difficult time criticizing Disney.

Saving Money
The second comment has to do with saving money. We enjoy our DVC, but in the long run, I suspect it has cost us -- not saved us -- money. That's not entirely bad, because some of the increased cost comes from visiting more often and enjoying higher quality vacations than we did previously. I know it's cost us more...but I can't say the decision (when we made it) was a bad decision.

I think the best way to evaluate the effect of DVC on cost is to think of it as more or less locking in your lodging cost (subject to some inflation on annual dues, of course). I don't look at DVC as a cost-saver, and I certainly don't look at it as an investment. For us, our costs other than lodging have gone significantly up, not down.

Changes in DVC
My third comment relates to DD08's first post to this thread -- the comment about 2010 points costs changes. To us, this week's change may (or may not) be that big a deal. We'll see if and when the Mouse finally figures out what they're doing.

But this week's change is almost irrelevent. The problem we have is there has been a steady stream of changes for about two years now. Many of the basic fundamentals of DVC ownership have changed over the last two years -- always to DVC's financial benefit, and often to our detriment. Some of the changes have been positive, but frankly, most have diminished the value of our DVC ownership. The changes are invariably presented as "improving the ownership experience" or similar drivel, but the obvious truth is they are designed to improve DVC's bottom line.

(I'm a little surprised, frankly, that nobody has started a thread outlining all of the changes over the last couple of years, including explaining the positive and negative impacts on owners. Such a thread would be helpful to new folks considering a DVC purchase.)

The problem with the changes for a prospective buyer is that you don't really know what you're buying. DVC today is very different from the DVC we bought just five years ago -- and I have NO idea what it will be five years from now.

Honestly, if someone asked me today whether I recommend a DVC purchase, I'd tell them no for that reason alone.

Value/Price
I also share Deb's concern with the inflated prices of DVC today...although I'm sure she thought I was nuts when we paid $73! The huge difference is, between 1993 and 2007, DVC consistently increased in value. The last year +, the opposite has been true. The value of a DVC contract has been sliding for a while.

We bought five years ago, and today, our points are selling for less than we paid for them. 2009 is very different from 1993, and prospective purchasers should consider the possibility that they may be buying at the very peak. A time when Disney is increasing their "new" price, but the resale market is tanking, is not an ideal situation if you are buying direct from Disney.

Very good points.

In reference to the point changes, I was just making the comment that his timing is a little off...........

Back to the OP, the last part you should take into consideration, timeshares should rarely (if ever) be considered an "investment" in the terms of you will sell in the future for more than what you paid for. While I may be new to DVC, I'm not new to timeshares and this is a fact across the board. Plus we have family members who have owned DVC since OKW was called The Disney Vacation Club and so we are aware of many of the recent changes.

What DVC is a way for you to try to buy accommodations up front + Yearly Maintence Fees. That's it. No one should look into buying into DVC as "an investment" that will sell for more later or for the "perks" or anything else. If you want to make a purchase, you should look at it for no more or no less than that.

I would think of it more like an extra car. You will spend money on it, pay to maintain it, hopefully make a few memories enjoying it but at the end of the road, it's worthless......If you can look at it that way and still not be afraid to part with your money, you won't be caught off-guard when the value decreases.....(like a car does)

 

[JimMIA]

One further comment on all the changes we've seen...

You'll hear a lot of crowing from guides about this benefit and that with DVC. What you need to keep in mind is exactly what DVC guarantees you, and that's not much.

The only things we are guaranteed by DVC are:

1. We will be able to use our points at our home resort, subject to availability of course
2. If other resort owners are allowed to book at our home resort, we will always enjoy at least a one-month booking advantage over them

Everything else is subject to change, and we've seen a consistent pattern of whittling away of features over the last two years.

 

[redrosesix]

This is a possibility, but along those same lines, if you are looking to travel anywhere there would be "doomsday" scenarios...

7 dollars/gallon gas...
Fewer and fewer airline flights that cost more and more...
More hotels, restuarants, other theme parks, etc closing shop...
The list can go on.

yes WDW is cutting hours and shows to save some $$ in this environment, but to me that's a fiscally responsible move right now until the economy and their bottom line turns around.

That being said, to the OP, I'm not trying to influence you to buy, if you have the money to comfortably buy, I wouldn't let the fear of Disney collapsing scare you. Wherever you put that money it could go down the toliet....

I have to agree with this poster - sort of. Try to remember that the banking crisis is a US phenomenon, and it doesn't affect much of the rest of the world. We will have some shocks as Americans run out of money to buy our products, but our own credit markets are less affected ie. people are not losing their homes, etc.

If the US dollar is allowed to fall to a market clearing price, there will be an increase in international tourists. Right now, Canadians are faced with the prospect of paying 20 percent more than we did a year ago for everything we buy in Florida. Unfortunately, cutting back park hours and reducing the number of shows does not help attract international tourists - I know many families from Canada that have decided to put off their trip to Disney for these reasons. Other sun destinations are adding more amenities, not less, and are a better bargain right now.

Hopefully, the people in the ivory towers will get a clue. But in either case, Disney has weathered worse economic conditions than this. My suggestion would be to consider your own financial situation regardless of the price you pay - if you have money that you can live without forever, go ahead. If you by any chance will have to sell your points within the next couple of years, wait.

 

[dd08]

I have to agree with this poster - sort of. Try to remember that the banking crisis is a US phenomenon, and it doesn't affect much of the rest of the world.

I"m going off-topic but........

the banking crisis is more than an US phenomenon......

If you don't believe me just google "international banking crisis 2008" or something similar.......

Here is just an example....

http://www.financemarkets.co.uk/2008/10/07/banking-crisis-which-are-the-safest-uk-banks/

 

[LIFERBABE]

I"m going off-topic but........

the banking crisis is more than an US phenomenon......

If you don't believe me just google "international banking crisis 2008" or something similar.......

Here is just an example....

http://www.financemarkets.co.uk/2008/10/07/banking-crisis-which-are-the-safest-uk-banks/

Agreed.

As far as recommending DVC, IMHO, HEDouble Hockey Sticks NO!!!

The economy is bad. Dont jump in polluted waters if you do not have to. Those that are in it will continue to use it and enjoy it, but if I did not own it already, I would not be purchasing at this time. Too much uncertainty and I see special assessments (extra money for "future enhancements") in our near future.

This is 1 ship that I would abandon if I could. Since I can't, we will use it and enjoy our vacations. DVC is still a great place to stay, just not to own. Save your money and ride the wave.

 

[redrosesix]

I"m going off-topic but........

the banking crisis is more than an US phenomenon......

If you don't believe me just google "international banking crisis 2008" or something similar.......

Here is just an example....

http://www.financemarkets.co.uk/2008/10/07/banking-crisis-which-are-the-safest-uk-banks/

Sorry...should have been more clear. I was talking about the residential housing credit markets. Well qualified borrowers are losing their homes because they cannot obtain financing. This fact will have the most impact on which Americans can afford to visit Disney.

ie. I certainly would not consider buying into DVC or even taking a vacation if my home was up for refinancing or I might lose my job as a result of the credit markets drying up. In Canada, our interest rates are down, but I have yet to hear of anyone getting dropped by their mortgage lender or unable to qualify for financing for ridiculous reasons. Certainly there has been no talk of nationalizing the banks here.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Agreed.

As far as recommending DVC, IMHO, HEDouble Hockey Sticks NO!!!

The economy is bad. Dont jump in polluted waters if you do not have to. Those that are in it will continue to use it and enjoy it, but if I did not own it already, I would not be purchasing at this time. Too much uncertainty and I see special assessments (extra money for "future enhancements") in our near future.

This is 1 ship that I would abandon if I could. Since I can't, we will use it and enjoy our vacations. DVC is still a great place to stay, just not to own. Save your money and ride the wave.

As long as members have points to rent out, renting a reservation from a member may be the most cost effective use of DVC.

 

[Disneyhappy]

We enjoyed DVC initally, and still do, however, go into it with your eyes wide open. There have been several changes in the 4 years we have been members and the majority of them not good for our family vacationing habits. They are a business and need to make money but there comes a point when greed steps in at the sacrifice of customer service/satisfaction. With this latest point reallocation, I think we would be prompted to sell our DVC points if not for the economy. I am hoping by the time the economy picks up again DVC will redeem themselves in our eyes and we will stay in for our son's sake. Just purchase with the idea that there will be changes and not necessarily good ones. Get the most fun vacations out of it in the meantime. The one positive change that I can recall is free internet service for members. The best perk if is the $100 off of the annual pass if you take several trips a year but that benefit has been decreasing every year because the park pass prices have been increasing every year. Maybe they will look to adjust that as a goodwill measure. Increase the AP discount up to $125? That would be really nice!