Tipping is it really necessary??!!

[Anal Annie]

I know that this is a heated debate but I was just comparing Disney's recommended tipping in comparison to other cruise lines and I was really surprised at the difference. We have cruised Disney before and I was not overly impressed with the service to validate tipping with the exception of our room steward. These people are paid a wage and I am paying more than enough for these cruises. I do not feel that we need to be paying for their wages. I work in a line of work where I also offer a service and I am not expecting other people to pay my wages. What is everyone else's opinons on this? Are you required to tip to everyone?? I would really appreciate some input on this!

*****
Since I can't say what I mean about this w/o getting into trouble I will refer to Crafty's post below and will just delete my thoughts on it.

 

[CraftyMouse]

I somewhat agree with the previous poster. But I think that tips should be included in the price of the cruise. Disney cruise lines is charging more than enough with their prices to cover crew tips. It truly is a matter of opinion. I will still cruise regardless of whether or not I tip.

Whether they should or not, DCL does not include tips in the cruise fare. By not tipping you are not punishing DCL, you are punishing the crew members who are working 70 hours a week to make your vacation better. These crew members could never afford a vacation like a DCL cruise. They make very little money and most of it gets sent home to family.

Tipping is an associated expense and, IMO, is not one that can be simply eliminated. Personally, I think your attitude is quite "Scrooge-like". This is about doing what's right by others, not doing what's best for yourself. Tips are at your discretion, but leaving nothing is, IMO, wrong. In our experience we have always had service that warrants at least the minimum suggested and we usually add more to that. If you can't afford to tip then you shouldn't sail.

 

[kcashner]

You can get some indication of the pay scale for various crew members from the DCL employment web page. What I've been told by servers is that they basically get about $50 per month, room and board, and all their "costumes" provided and cared for. They have a small area of the ship which includes a pool and fitness center for their use during their few off hours. They are responsible for their personal laundry, toiletries, etc. The food is nutritious, but somewhat boring. The quarters are small and always shared by at least one other crew member. Thus, they are very dependent on their tips. The server who told me this was supporting a family "at home." Another server said that he was supporting a mother and brother in "his country." In addition to this, the crew member gets transportation home and back to the ship during his/her time off. As one server pointed out, that can be quite expensive as it is transportation all the way home, not just to the nearest big airport. They also receive medical coverage, and can purchase insurance for their off times.

I can't verify the accuracy of the above...it is what I've been told by primarily 2 servers.

People in non-tipped positions get much better salaries. They also work hard (children's programming, etc.) Definitely a lifestyle for a young person.....

 

[chisnpeke]

They are paid a VERY LOW wage. If you can't tip then you shouldn't be cruising. Most of these people go way out of their way to make your trip as wonderful as possible. They deserve the tips they receive.

 

[mmackeymouse]

The definition of gratuity is such: "something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service." I only say this as a prelude to my opinion.

I really am not a fan of the way society has played some sort of guilt card on the tipping business. (in ALL aspects, not just cruising) It used to be a personal preference, and now it is an expectation. The way I have always been raised is that you only tip if the service is good. The way it is nowadays, 10-15% is the expected tip, and you are expected to tip higher for good service, as if the 10-15% is the base tip, even if service is poor.

I was watching the Today Show or Good Morning America a few months ago, and they said that EVEN if the service is bad, EVEN if that pizza delivery guy takes 2 hours to get there, you should still tip at least 15%, because if you don't, the next time you will get worse service (spit in food, etc etc). To me, that is just wrong. I know this is not how it would be on DCL, but still, in general, to be guilted into leaving a tip for subpar service is bad enough. It is even worse to be forced into it, at the risk of being treated worse in the future......just plain wrong.

Not to be nasty, but the way I look at it, if these servers get only the expected tips from just 3 families, they are making more a week than I am. So, again not to be rude, I do not feel THAT sorry for them. I am sure they are bringing in a decent amount of money.

That said, I do plan to leave tips, as I expect service to deem it worthy. But, I will not leave tips, because it is expected, I feel guilty, or anything like that.

 

[tink too]

I too find the whole system for paying servers wages in the US a bit perplexing, but do as the locals do when visiting the States or cruising.

Here in the UK, waitstaff and housekeepers are paid a reasonable wage. Tips are not expected as a rule, but I usually give servers something when they have been attentive and friendly. Higher end restaurants do often add a "service charge" to the final bill though, so this is something diners have to look out for before leaving a tip.

On our DCL cruise in May, we tipped at least the recommended amount to those in tipped positions because we realise that many of the staff are supporting families back home. Our servers did a decent job, but were not exceptional. Our stateroom host always greeted us with a smile (no matter what time of day it was) and he did a fabulous job. All were worth the tips we gave them. However, we did not tip any of the staff in "non-tipped" positions.

We just counted on the tip as part of the cruise, just as we would when dining out. If you don't want to play along with how the system works in the US, don't cruise or go out for meals.

 

[Happy99]

I somewhat agree with the previous poster. But I think that tips should be included in the price of the cruise. Disney cruise lines is charging more than enough with their prices to cover crew tips. It truly is a matter of opinion. I will still cruise regardless of whether or not I tip.

Let me ask this question - would you go out to a restaurant and not tip?
Personally that is how I view my meals on the ship.

The only person I haven't tipped at times is the head server if all they did was come by the table the last night of the cruise to show his face for the tips.

 

[jilljill]

We went on 2 Carnival cruises this past summer where they automatically add the tips to your shipboard account and the service we received in the dining rooms was less than exceptional. I like the idea of being able to make it my choice to tip or not, and I feel that the service is better if the tips are not automatic.

When I went on my first cruise in 1999 I had no idea the 'tipped postion' crew members relied on tips for their pay and I don't feel it's my right to know this either. These people worked hard for me on the ship I felt they should be tipped for the services I received. I only learned of their very low wages after being on these boards, but even after knowing that I still tip what I feel is right and don't feel like I'm being 'guilted' into paying their wages.
These people work hard and have very long hours - definately not a job I want for any amount of money.

 

[slindamood]

Tipping is part of the cruise culture. If you cruise, you should honor the culture and tip.

As with any culture, there is no rhyme or reason as to why wait staff are tipped while department store clerks are not. There may be better ways of doing it as some have pointed out, but for now tipping is just the way it is.

Part of travel is recognizing and repsecting different cultures. Part of the culture of cruising is tipping. It is just the way it is and it is the way the staff are compensated.

I also think we get some pretty fantastic service on DCL

 

[perdy1234]

I do think that tipping has gone way overboard and cruise line especially Disney are making you feel guilted into tipping and I don't think that is right. And yes I can afford to cruise but we are on a very tight budget and I don't think that my family shouldn't get to go on cruises because I don't feel that tipping is essential. I do not tip in general at a restaurant unless I get exceptional service and that is the way I feel about tipping while cruising. On our previous cruise the service was not exceptional, it wasn't bad but not great. If I am going to ip someone I should not have to be tracking them down for more water or bread, which I had too and still did not get it! In Canada our min wage where I live is over $9.00'hr starting next year. With tips these people are making more than I do with a college education. What incentive is there for these young people to go to college?? I feel that the cm working on cruises are there for life experiences and that is what they are getting. I am not going to cruise to pay for their bills which most would hardly have living on a cruise ship.

 

[Michelemouse]

In Canada our min wage where I live is over $9.00'hr starting next year. With tips these people are making more than I do with a college education.

You do realize that those in tipped positions make far less per hour than the minimum wage, right? At least that's the way it is here in the states. They get only a fraction of what minimum-wage workers make.

 

[tomspixie]

We have friends who work shore side who have mentioned that ALL crew are given a wage. However, especially in the dining areas, it is a very low wage and therefore are working for tips.
I agree with most people writing here that these individuals go out of their way to make YOUR trip special. We have sailed other lines, and never found the genuine desire to improve your sailing a part of them. IMHO I believe
Disney CMs all add a little pixie dust to our days. It should not be a guarantee...but a GRATUITY of all they did. We choose to thank them for making us suspend the reality of everyday...and allowing us to bring a little magic back home.
Do what you feel is right. The Golden Rule is always a good one...Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You. Would you be willing to work the way they do? Their minimum work week is 70 hours...with the option of adding 24 overtime hours.
We have always had servers and room stewards that have gone out of their way for us. We try to thank them appropriately.

 

[tink too]

In Canada our min wage where I live is over $9.00'hr starting next year.

The UK works on a similar basis, but when we are on vacation in the US or cruising, we can longer go by what is customary in the UK.

You do realize that those in tipped positions make far less per hour than the minimum wage, right? At least that's the way it is here in the states. They get only a fraction of what minimum-wage workers make.

I learnt many years ago from a server in a US restaurant just how little she earned from the company who hired her. I was and at how the US system works, but did not punish her by not tipping. It is simply the way of life in the States.

I feel that the cm working on cruises are there for life experiences and that is what they are getting. I am not going to cruise to pay for their bills which most would hardly have living on a cruise ship.

If you look at the nationalities of the servers, you'll find that most are from developing countries and are not working for life experiences, but for money. Yes, it's the same reason that most adults around the world have a job - not because they love it, but because it is a necessity. I can't understand why you think people don't have bills when they are not living at home. Here in the UK we still have to pay our mortgage or rent, taxes and at least a connection fee for utilities even if we are out of the country for an extended period of time. I can't imagine that banks or utility providers in Canada suspend payments due if people choose to work outside of their resident country for a while.

Before I visit any country in the world, I try to research their customs before I arrive so I am following the rules and expectations of that nation AND also not causing offence to anyone whilst visiting their country.

I hope this helps you to have a better understanding of how things work when visiting other countries as even our closest neighbours can operate in a hugely different manner to where we call "home".

 

[tomspixie]

The UK works on a similar basis, but when we are on vacation in the US or cruising, we can longer go by what is customary in the UK.



I learnt many years ago from a server in a US restaurant just how little she earned from the company who hired her. I was and at how the US system works, but did not punish her by not tipping. It is simply the way of life in the States.



If you look at the nationalities of the servers, you'll find that most are from developing countries and are not working for life experiences, but for money. Yes, it's the same reason that most adults around the world have a job - not because they love it, but because it is a necessity. I can't understand why you think people don't have bills when they are not living at home. Here in the UK we still have to pay our mortgage or rent, taxes and at least a connection fee for utilities even if we are out of the country for an extended period of time. I can't imagine that banks or utility providers in Canada suspend payments due if people choose to work outside of their resident country for a while.

Before I visit any country in the world, I try to research their customs before I arrive so I am following the rules and expectations of that nation AND also not causing offence to anyone whilst visiting their country.

I hope this helps you to have a better understanding of how things work when visiting other countries as even our closest neighbours can operate in a hugely different manner to where we call "home".

Wow! That was well done, and well said. If you are not in public relations, human resources, or politics...you would do great! While we are American, my DH and I often feel as if our ancestry is the proverbial American Melting Pot. That said, we both have Scot blood, and we are proud of it! You do your country quite a bit of credit in the points you make!

While we are traveling abroad for a while...kids are approaching college age very quickly...I am interested in what you do at meals in restaurants. We did the Med last time it was there, and we tipped when in restaurants. Did we look like dumb Americans? The sad part was that the service was really poor...but we felt obligated, based on our experience here.

Thanks for any "tips" here! Best of days!

 

[Happy99]

In Canada our min wage where I live is over $9.00'hr starting next year.

Is this Canadian or U.S.? If U.S.$ then I should move to Canada
In the U.S. the minimum wage for waiters is $2.50 per hour (U.S. Dollars) so they rely on tips. Do I agree with this? No. Until the employers and government do something about it that is the way it is

 

[MarkRG]

A few bits of thought to add to all this.

-With exactly ONE exception, all major cruise line ships that homeport in the US are flagged as run from elsewhere, including DCL. Why? They are not subject to US labor laws. They can set whatever wage rules they like.

-To reinforce what others have said, in making their own rules, DCL does good by them on room and board, but in actual money earnings most of it for the service teams comes from us, not DCL. Most other cruise lines have this kind of structure in place, it isn't something exclusive to DCL.

- Something to possibly change your perceptions a bit, because the structure is different onboard from any land based function, because of the above, I'd more suggest you think of everyone that gets a gratuity onboard as working on commission than on tips. It's just plain not the same kind of tip sysem you're used to. They are working to earn your money, first and foremost, DCL is mostly just providing the setting.

Not trying to guilt anyone, to each their own, but keep what I've outlined in mind when dealing with them, they are there to serve you first and foremost and most of that motivation is in what we the cruisers give them.

The closest I've come to this personally actually happened on our first DCL cruise. We were more or less new to it then, but after just one night we really got the impression of bad service from our main dinner server. And we are as far from high maintaince people as you can get. And it didn't get better from there. By the last night our asst server was doing most everything for our table. Main guy would take the order and disappear. So, what we did is swap their two recommendeds and put a good bit more in our asst server taken from what we actually gave the main server. We did find out in talking on the last night with the asst that the main server's contract was up and he was not renewing, but that was still no excuse for even basic service to go so far lacking.

 

[perdy1234]

Whether they should or not, DCL does not include tips in the cruise fare. By not tipping you are not punishing DCL, you are punishing the crew members who are working 70 hours a week to make your vacation better. These crew members could never afford a vacation like a DCL cruise. They make very little money and most of it gets sent home to family.

Tipping is an associated expense and, IMO, is not one that can be simply eliminated. Personally, I think your attitude is quite "Scrooge-like". This is about doing what's right by others, not doing what's best for yourself. Tips are at your discretion, but leaving nothing is, IMO, wrong. In our experience we have always had service that warrants at least the minimum suggested and we usually add more to that. If you can't afford to tip then you shouldn't sail.

Wow I just wanted people's opinons on this and wanted to voice my own. I do not view myself as scrooge like and I take quite an offence to this statement. We have tipped in the past if I felt it was worth it, but for the most part the service is not! If I was only paying a smaller amount for the cruising I'd tip accordingly but when the cruise line is taking advantage of people's income now a days and uping the prices so much I think that they should pay their staff accordingly to the work they do. If you feel I am scrooge like then that is your opinion but I too am entilted to mine!

 

[Happy99]

Wow I just wanted people's opinons on this and wanted to voice my own. I do not view myself as scrooge like and I take quite an offence to this statement. We have tipped in the past if I felt it was worth it, but for the most part the service is not! If I was only paying a smaller amount for the cruising I'd tip accordingly but when the cruise line is taking advantage of people's income now a days and uping the prices so much I think that they should pay their staff accordingly to the work they do. If you feel I am scrooge like then that is your opinion but I too am entilted to mine!

Cruise lines have been operating like this for decades it has nothing to do with the current state of the economy. That is why most of the workes that are in tipping positions on a cruise are from countries where working on a cruise is a better option for them then what they could do at home. I can't imagine working the hours they do and not seeing their families for months at a time

The way cruise lines operate is the way they operate and if you don't care for it then you should find an alternate vacation option. To penalize the workers is not the right thing to do. Tipping on cruising is part of the cost of cruising and for those that don't care for it shouldn't cruise. If you are looking for a less expensive cruise option there are many other cruise lines out there that cost less then Disney

I figure it out by day - The recommended tip per person for the dining room server is $4 per day - if you have 4 people that is $16 per day. If you go to a restaurant where the bill comes to $100 for 4 and you leave 15% that is $15. If you tip 20% it is $20. This is for just one meal not even including breakfast, dinner, the deck parties, etc. Based on what we normally order for dinner on the cruise I can tell you that land based our bill would probably be around $200 for dinner for 4 people.


Whatever you decide I hope you have fun on your cruise

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

And yes I can afford to cruise but we are on a very tight budget and I don't think that my family shouldn't get to go on cruises because I don't feel that tipping is essential. I do not tip in general at a restaurant unless I get exceptional service and that is the way I feel about tipping while cruising. What incentive is there for these young people to go to college??

Do you really not tip at restaurants either? That hurts the server!

Also there are lots of professions that make a lot of money without a college degree - plumber, electrician, server...? Anyone who makes a lot of money doing something I would never want to do - great for them!

If I could not afford to tip, I could not afford to eat out.

 

[Happy99]

I do think that tipping has gone way overboard and cruise line especially Disney are making you feel guilted into tipping and I don't think that is right. And yes I can afford to cruise but we are on a very tight budget and I don't think that my family shouldn't get to go on cruises because I don't feel that tipping is essential. I do not tip in general at a restaurant unless I get exceptional service and that is the way I feel about tipping while cruising. On our previous cruise the service was not exceptional, it wasn't bad but not great. If I am going to ip someone I should not have to be tracking them down for more water or bread, which I had too and still did not get it! In Canada our min wage where I live is over $9.00'hr starting next year. With tips these people are making more than I do with a college education. What incentive is there for these young people to go to college?? I feel that the cm working on cruises are there for life experiences and that is what they are getting. I am not going to cruise to pay for their bills which most would hardly have living on a cruise ship.

I respectfully disagree - the people working on the cruise in tipping positions are generally past college age and cannot afford to go to college. Most come from countries where high school is not even an option because they have to go to work to help support the family let alone go to college

Most servers in the U.S. restaurants are college students trying to earn a living while working at a job that offers them flexibility with the hours based on their school schedule

Now I don't agree with the tipping jars that are showing up all over the place like fast food restaurants, starbucks and dunkin donuts. The people working at these place get the full minimum wage and above. When we travel to Europe we also don't normally tip unless the situation warrants for it because the rules and customs are different. We try to respect what is expected at the places we decide to visit

Just because Canada has a higher wage doesn't mean that is how you should treat every place you visit.

I do also agree that tipping is subjective to the amount you see fit but to not tip the positions that warrant it just seems ignorant. When we figure out the cost of the cruise we always figure out the cost of the tips and see where that total takes us and whether we can afford it at this time or not. I have tipped less when we haven't been happy with the service and we have also tipped more when the service has been exceptional.

One example is the head server Fritz - during our cruise this past summer on DCL he was the only head server we ever had on any cruise line that made daily stops at the tables. Asked if we needed anything and if we were being treated nicely. Pitched in and cleared tables and served meals when there was a need for it and did much more. In our eyes he is the first head server that worked for his tip and we even gave him extra