Tink Weekend Issues and Changes (LONG!)

[DVCFan1994]

I really loved my experience running at DL in November 2015. Dare I say, I enjoyed it more than any of my 3 WDW races. I've been looking forward to heading back out for another DL race since then. Tink weekend next year was one possibility. The reports from this year's Tink weekend absolutely make me rethink this idea.

Since Tink didn't sell out, I think my plan will be to wait and see how DL weekend goes in September. The course support in Anaheim was awesome, and if that is gone, really not sure I'm interested. I am comfortable with the possibility of missing out to avoid such a let down.

I once received a survey, and I agree with @Barca33Runner and others. some of the questions led to responses where my answers did not represent my full opinion. Many moons ago I worked in a university opinion research center, and a lot of time went into crafting questions that would not lead to particular responses or force respondents to choose between options that were not necessarily divergent choices. I feel as though Disney surveys are not designed so carefully - whether that's intentional or not. Safety is important to everyone as far as I know. I don't think it should be weighted against other aspects.

To me, Disney is an entertainment venue. The races are centered on running in an entertainment setting. I think the survey would be better off having people rank what types of entertainment is important to them, not how it ranks against other aspects.

I'll be watching how things go from here.

 

[roxymama]

This is a long (both the article and my response to it) article.

But it sums up the changes that runDisney tried out at Tink weekend and has some explanations for it. Pretty interesting, I think, and I'm wondering if these are indications of where runDisney is going (or maybe just runDiseny in California?).

https://www.mouseplanet.com/11776/Changes_Cause_an_Uproar_at_2017_Tinker_Bell_Half_Marathon_Weekend

My thoughts...
1.) The paid temps: This portion is especially interesting to me - I do recall seeing that the Clif Shot station was grab & go (a runner in front of me slapped a bunch of the Clif shots off of the table trying to grab one and I remember wondering a.) why she did that and b.) why people weren't handing them out - now I know). But I didn't encounter anything mentioned in the article! I guess timing is everything.

Mostly I'm wondering if reports like this will turn people off to volunteering at DLR races...that could be a huge problem.

2.) The entertainment: Definitely lacking during the half. However...I think it was lame of the Red Hat Ladies to not be on the course because they didn't get complimentary park tickets. They only ever showed up to get tickets? Not a fan of that. I'm not sure if that also extends to dance groups, cheerleading squads, HS bands, etc.? Is the lack of entertainment during the Tink half what we can come to expect from ALL half marathons at Disneyland, because comp'd park tickets aren't available anymore?

3.) Security: It sounds like I got very lucky on this one. I went through security once each morning...super fast for the 5K, slow during the morning of the 10K (the wanding mentioned in the article), and again very fast the morning of the half. I guess I was through early enough to beat the craziness the morning of the half marathon, because it sounds like it became a nightmare, and now I understand why the half started late.

4.) Never Land 5K: completely agree with everything written about this race. I had other issues with it as well (congestion/lack of corralling). The explanation for the entertainment cut in the article is insane to me, and I wouldn't do this one again.

5.) Tinker Bell 10K: Agree with basically everything, best race of the weekend. Would 100% do this one again.

6.) Half: Agree with this report too. I was in Corral B and it never seemed crowded to me, but it sounds like it was jammed further back. I did take Candy from a Stranger, so thanks for that, MousePlanet! The rest of my thoughts are in (2) above - parks portion was perfect, Anaheim portion was nice but had almost zero entertainment.

7.) VIP experience: sounds ridiculous. Glad I didn't do it.

8.) Parking garage: sounds like a nightmare!! OMG.

The summary at the end of the article is telling to me - like I said above a couple of times, I think I got really lucky with the timing of things to avoid some of these issues. Initially I wasn't understanding why people were saying this weekend was such a disaster (because overall, for me, it was pretty good) - now I get it.

I'm not sure what all of this means for this particular race weekend (I could see a re-theme coming at some point - Tink just doesn't seem to sell. I feel like having it on Mother's Day definitely contributes to this), and for other future Disneyland race weekends. I hope they take any feedback they get and do better in the future!!

And I do have an email I'm working on to send to runDisney with my thoughts. Like I said, it was good overall, but I have issues.

I can imagine that if I were to choose between "have water and fuel" and "entertainment" that I'd probably click water. But to me choices like having water and fuel shouldn't even be on a survey...I expect every single race to have the stuff that supports runners health. Like, please don't put "accurate course length" as a choice...that's expected. That kind of thing.

I think my overall experience did not overlap very much with the writer of that article. I'd be pretty miffed if all those things lined up against me, but I had a very pleasant experience. Helped I did the half and not the 5k. Helped I stayed at a nearby hotel and got up early enough to beat some of the security mess like Ariel said. Helped I was in a front corral and finished "relatively" quickly and was staying at a hotel, not driving, so exiting wasn't too bad. Etc. My interactions with the non-volunteers were good...but brief...it wasn't like I was hanging around to see how they were being treated etc...but I can believe it was a bit of a mess behind the scenes. I believe all the annoying things were happening...and although it seems I got luck (or I just have a very low bar for what I tolerate) I still understand that others didn't have such a great time and I'm glad people are voicing their opinions (seemed to work to get us our characters for the later races in the weekend.)
I will AGREE that I wish there was more on course stuff past mile 7 just because I watched too many youtubes of previous races and it looked "funner" and I think it is weird that the redhats and local clubs maybe were only doing the race for freebies. That feels a tad icky. Maybe in the future they could do something with disney giving money to a charity in return for local entertainment...or some kind of charity drive...I dunno...something else?

 

[ZellyB]

I did want to mention that I thought the corral process for the 10k and half was good. They did check at a few points, but I thought that would take away some opportunity for corral jumpers so I'm surprised people saw that many. WE felt that part seemed far more organized than at WDW. I also liked the porta potties near each corral. And I didn't think going through the additional check points took any time. Now, we were there relatively early and in corral B, so that may have made it work better for us, but I personally like the more structured entrance to the corrals and the multiple checks.

 

[ZellyB]

I will AGREE that I wish there was more on course stuff past mile 7 just because I watched too many youtubes of previous races and it looked "funner" and I think it is weird that the redhats and local clubs maybe were only doing the race for freebies. That feels a tad icky. Maybe in the future they could do something with disney giving money to a charity in return for local entertainment...or some kind of charity drive...I dunno...something else?

And, I was thinking about the free tix this morning too. Honestly, it doesn't make a lot of sense that Disney did that for "cost savings". I mean, from what I heard, there were a few bands and cheerleaders and the red hats, so that's, what? maybe 500 people or so. The "cost" to Disney is really negligible since their costs to run the parks themselves won't be changed by a few hundred tickets spread out over time. So, you could argue, loss of revenue, but just as likely these folks just wouldn't come without the free ticket, so in truth, the free ticket would likely garner them revenue in the form of food, drink, purchases, etc. It doesn't make sense for that to be a financial decision.

So, if it's not about money, then maybe they also had some liability concerns - something like what drove them to employ workers instead of use volunteers at the tables. If some HS band kid got hit by a car or something while supporting the race, and Disney was providing an incentive for them to be there, could they face some kind of lawsuit? Seems far fetched maybe, but in this day and age, not out of the question. I just suspect it had more to do with that, rather than a cost-cutting measure.

 

[Ariel484]

I'm a little bothered by the free ticket thing too - I may be naive, but I had no idea all of those people that came out to cheer did it to get a free ticket. I agree with @roxymama, "icky" is the perfect word.

 

[Barca33Runner]

Like, please don't put "accurate course length" as a choice...that's expected. That kind of thing.

I remember specifically from past surveys USATF certified course, chip timing, and water and aid stations being prominent in the questions asking about the importance of certain elements. That was where I was coming from with my earlier posts about runDisney either targeting the questions to a desired result or asking an incredibly flawed question. Those are all baseline expectations that anyone has for running a road race. Of course on-course entertainment would fall behind such things when ranking importance.

I'm not entirely sure if some or all of those were included in the questions where on-course entertainment finished with low importance marks, but you can easily see where that result came from if they were.

 

[GreatLakes]

An important thing to keep in mind about surveys is that there are two kinds. One is where you legitimately want to survey your customer base to help guide operational decisions. The other is where you design a survey to reinforce a decision you have already decided to make.

What the Tink changes say to me is that Disney isn't really focused on the event. They are focused on how they can make money from RunDisney. Every good race I've run has been focused on putting on the best event they could and not worrying about any profit they could make from it. They attempt to break even from an operational point of view and then all (or a significant amount of) the profit goes to charity. As I have said here many times RunDisney needs to be run as a charity race event by race directors without any profit pressure. The Tink changes, along with many others, scream to me that this isn't the approach Disney and RunDisney take and it is sad.

 

[Ariel484]

I'm also wondering if Tink registration for next year will be delayed, like Light Side was.

And with all of the bad press Tink got this year, wondering how well it'll sell...

 

[camaker]

I'm also wondering if Tink registration for next year will be delayed, like Light Side was.

And with all of the bad press Tink got this year, wondering how well it'll sell...

There was an interesting post in the Facebook group this morning where someone took the race routes and overlaid them onto a map showing the area being affected by construction of a new hotel on property. The route(s) ran right through the construction area. To me, that seems to support the supposition that revamping the race route and the associated permitting processes are likely what is holding up Light Side registration. It would make sense that they would have to come to the same resolution as Light Side prior to opening Tink registration.

It will be hard to tell how much the negative press affects things from the outside looking in, as I don't think Tink sold out this year. In the absence of the percent sold bars, it will be near impossible to gauge the comparative degree of "not sold out" without insider sales numbers. I think it'll depend largely on subsequent events, though. Even if the initial sales are slow, if press around DLH, Superheroes and SWLS (once all the dust has settled) is positive and indicates this was a one-off experiment by rD and they learned their lesson from it, sales will pick up.

 

[JulieODC]

My guess is that rundisney couldn't extend the tickets to the cheer groups because of the larger issue around volunteers that prompted them to hire support staff in the first place. If they gave the tickets it was essentially payment for services rendered - and my understanding is that a lawsuit related to that triggered to end of the race volunteers.

Another total guess is that RHS and other
Groups didn't show in hopes that there would be so much uproar that rundisney would find a way to offer tickets next time around.

That one random band they had on the course (Crimson Apple) appears to regularly play at DL so probably have some sort of contract in place.

 

[Ariel484]

There was one high school band, right? Or did I imagine that?

@JulieODC what you're saying totally makes sense. I'm not sure what the means for future runDisney races at Disneyland...

 

[ZellyB]

There was one high school band, right? Or did I imagine that?

@JulieODC what you're saying totally makes sense. I'm not sure what the means for future runDisney races at Disneyland...

I don't really remember a HS band per se, but there were some high school kids with maybe just some drums or something out there cheering. At least I think that's what was going on.

 

[bumbershoot]

Safety is important to everyone as far as I know. I don't think it should be weighted against other aspects.

Exactly.

To me, Disney is an entertainment venue. The races are centered on running in an entertainment setting. I think the survey would be better off having people rank what types of entertainment is important to them, not how it ranks against other aspects.

Yes.

Like, please don't put "accurate course length" as a choice...that's expected.

I agree and then I read the next post that said they'd included USATF on a survey and I just cringed that they might actually be doing that.

The other is where you design a survey to reinforce a decision you have already decided to make.

Which should pretty much have the Disney trademark all over it, since that seems to be what they do.

 

[Calfan]

My guess is that rundisney couldn't extend the tickets to the cheer groups because of the larger issue around volunteers that prompted them to hire support staff in the first place. If they gave the tickets it was essentially payment for services rendered - and my understanding is that a lawsuit related to that triggered to end of the race volunteers.

Another total guess is that RHS and other
Groups didn't show in hopes that there would be so much uproar that rundisney would find a way to offer tickets next time around.

That one random band they had on the course (Crimson Apple) appears to regularly play at DL so probably have some sort of contract in place.

I wasn't aware of the lawsuit, but I admit to not following the thread about the race volunteers. Sadly, that makes sense and, like Ariel484, I fear what that might mean for future DL runDisney races.

There was one high school band, right? Or did I imagine that?

@JulieODC what you're saying totally makes sense. I'm not sure what the means for future runDisney races at Disneyland...

I definitely remember an actual band, which I assumed was a high school band. Good for them if they came out on Mother's Day without park tickets as a sweetener/incentive!

I don't really remember a HS band per se, but there were some high school kids with maybe just some drums or something out there cheering. At least I think that's what was going on.

 

[sidrich]

I'm a little bothered by the free ticket thing too - I may be naive, but I had no idea all of those people that came out to cheer did it to get a free ticket. I agree with @roxymama, "icky" is the perfect word.

A veil has certainly been lifted. I imagine feeling kinda deflated if you thought people were cheering you on for years because they love what you love and then discovered that they were actually pretty indifferent to you and were just there for the free ticket.

If you Google around you can find previous years Red Hat Lady messages about receiving their invitation to cheer - and it's pretty clear in the message that it's "Let's do this and get a park ticket" not "Let's support the DL women's oriented half marathon". Which is fine and understandable- I'm guessing you don't get 40 band kids out of bed before dawn on Mother's Day without an incentive as well, but if as a runner you didn't realize they were being paid the first year they showed up, and spent years thinking they were there to cheer you, realizing they were never really there to cheer you on probably would feel icky. Like, if DL suddenly reverses course, declares their "test" a failure and goes back to giving out park tickets for volunteers, and the Red Hat Ladies suddenly show up next year - would you feel as excited to see them, knowing what you now know?


Half the reason I got talked around to wanting to run light side was the cos players in the Anaheim portion. Ill be sad if the race never takes place, and also sad if it happens but the cos players don't show up because they aren't being paid.

 

[Ariel484]

@sidrich well said, and good point about the high school kids...I've wondered about them in the past. You would have had to have offered me something reeeeaaally good to get out of bed that early when I was in high school!

 

[RENThead09]

This really makes me concerned about the DL half coming up.
If you like the old cars or not, I loved interacting with the owners and it broke up that LOOOOONG stretch out to the stadium.
And running through an empty stadium with no one cheering just wont be the same.
And no band or dancers or on course fun for 8-9 miles. Ehhhhhhhhh.
Might be time to pull back from running at DLand. I run these races because of the fun and excitements that helps me get to thru the races. If they choose not to give those elements, then they are helping me make that decision.
Guess we will find out in 3 months.

 

[bumbershoot]

A veil has certainly been lifted. I imagine feeling kinda deflated if you thought people were cheering you on for years because they love what you love and then discovered that they were actually pretty indifferent to you and were just there for the free ticket.

......Like, if DL suddenly reverses course, declares their "test" a failure and goes back to giving out park tickets for volunteers, and the Red Hat Ladies suddenly show up next year - would you feel as excited to see them, knowing what you now know?

Agreed, and nope. I'll never feel the same about the bands and cosplayers etc again.

 

[GreatLakes]

A veil has certainly been lifted. I imagine feeling kinda deflated if you thought people were cheering you on for years because they love what you love and then discovered that they were actually pretty indifferent to you and were just there for the free ticket.

If you Google around you can find previous years Red Hat Lady messages about receiving their invitation to cheer - and it's pretty clear in the message that it's "Let's do this and get a park ticket" not "Let's support the DL women's oriented half marathon". Which is fine and understandable- I'm guessing you don't get 40 band kids out of bed before dawn on Mother's Day without an incentive as well, but if as a runner you didn't realize they were being paid the first year they showed up, and spent years thinking they were there to cheer you, realizing they were never really there to cheer you on probably would feel icky. Like, if DL suddenly reverses course, declares their "test" a failure and goes back to giving out park tickets for volunteers, and the Red Hat Ladies suddenly show up next year - would you feel as excited to see them, knowing what you now know?


Half the reason I got talked around to wanting to run light side was the cos players in the Anaheim portion. Ill be sad if the race never takes place, and also sad if it happens but the cos players don't show up because they aren't being paid.

I don't know. I've done a lot of races around the country and high school bands are pretty common. I suspect they aren't getting free Disneyland tickets in, say, Cincinnati for the Flying Pig but there are plenty there.

 

[roxymama]

The local races by me often have high school kids helping out. Like the football team that was basically the aid stations, course cheerers and medal guys. I realize they were likely there for community service hours or because their coach told them they had to be there...even the big races by me you can just tell when there is a group of teens likely there for community service credits. But when those kids are so exuberant and really cheering you and just having a great time...I don't mind they are getting something out of it because they're support and fun often feels so genuine.

I think if I ran Tink again and the Red Hat ladies came back and where exuberant I'd still appreciate it. In that moment the cheering and fun-having is probably pretty genuine once they're out there and we are out there. It is kind of icky that none of them came for the fun without any incentive though, unless they were expressly told not to come by disney. That could totally be the case.
But yeah, the fact I'm even thinking about this is definitely because some kind of "veil" has been lifted.