Tink Weekend Issues and Changes (LONG!)

[Ariel484]

This is long (both the article and my response to it)...

But it sums up the changes that runDisney tried out at Tink weekend and has some explanations for it. Pretty interesting, I think, and I'm wondering if these are indications of where runDisney is going (or maybe just runDisney in California?).

https://www.mouseplanet.com/11776/Changes_Cause_an_Uproar_at_2017_Tinker_Bell_Half_Marathon_Weekend

My thoughts...
1.) The paid temps: This portion is especially interesting to me - I do recall seeing that the Clif Shot station was grab & go (a runner in front of me slapped a bunch of the Clif shots off of the table trying to grab one and I remember wondering a.) why she did that and b.) why people weren't handing them out - now I know). But I didn't encounter anything mentioned in the article! I guess timing is everything.

Mostly I'm wondering if reports like this will turn people off to volunteering at DLR races...that could be a huge problem.

2.) The entertainment: Definitely lacking during the half. However...I think it was lame of the Red Hat Ladies to not be on the course because they didn't get complimentary park tickets. They only ever showed up to get tickets? Not a fan of that. I'm not sure if that also extends to dance groups, cheerleading squads, HS bands, etc.? Is the lack of entertainment during the Tink half what we can come to expect from ALL half marathons at Disneyland, because comp'd park tickets aren't available anymore?

3.) Security: It sounds like I got very lucky on this one. I went through security once each morning...super fast for the 5K, slow during the morning of the 10K (the wanding mentioned in the article), and again very fast the morning of the half. I guess I was through early enough to beat the craziness the morning of the half marathon, because it sounds like it became a nightmare, and now I understand why the half started late.

4.) Never Land 5K: completely agree with everything written about this race. I had other issues with it as well (congestion/lack of corralling). The explanation for the entertainment cut in the article is insane to me, and I wouldn't do this one again.

5.) Tinker Bell 10K: Agree with basically everything, best race of the weekend. Would 100% do this one again.

6.) Half: Agree with this report too. I was in Corral B and it never seemed crowded to me, but it sounds like it was jammed further back. I did take Candy from a Stranger, so thanks for that, MousePlanet! The rest of my thoughts are in (2) above - parks portion was perfect, Anaheim portion was nice but had almost zero entertainment.

7.) VIP experience: sounds ridiculous. Glad I didn't do it.

8.) Parking garage: sounds like a nightmare!! OMG.

The summary at the end of the article is telling to me - like I said above a couple of times, I think I got really lucky with the timing of things to avoid some of these issues. Initially I wasn't understanding why people were saying this weekend was such a disaster (because overall, for me, it was pretty good) - now I get it.

I'm not sure what all of this means for this particular race weekend (I could see a re-theme coming at some point - Tink just doesn't seem to sell. I feel like having it on Mother's Day definitely contributes to this), and for other future Disneyland race weekends. I hope they take any feedback they get and do better in the future!!

And I do have an email I'm working on to send to runDisney with my thoughts. Like I said, it was good overall, but I have issues.

 

[ZellyB]

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote @Ariel484 . I didn't run the 5K, so can't speak to that, but I thought the workers were really great and didn't notice any problems, although like you I did notice the Cliff Shot station was unmanned.

I'm glad we stuck with going through the back Katella security screen for the half. After the slow moving during the 10K, we briefly considered heading up Harbor and through that way, but sounds like our choice was much better.

This was our first Disneyland race, so I had no prior experiences with the half course, so my expectations weren't that high and frankly we loved the race course, but I can see why others were disappointed. We just didn't know any better I guess.

 

[JulieODC]

Long, but so glad they wrote it all up. I've heard some comments about people whining about fewer characters, but the issues were soooo much more extensive than that!

I need to put together an email as well. These races are a huge investment and hiccups happen, this was more of a systemic failure. After listening to a rundisney person on a podcast over the weekend, you realize that every single detail is thought through - and these issues didn't just slip through the cracks.

And they didn't even touch on the rumors that the course was cut short for some runners....

 

[Ariel484]

@ZellyB it was a little mind-blowing to read all of this put together in one place. When reading parts of this, it was like I participated in a totally different race weekend.

@JulieODC GREAT point about the half course possibly being cut short. I'd forgotten about that. I just can't believe they thought it was a good idea to make all of these changes in one weekend...seems like they should have been rolled out more slowly.

 

[Barca33Runner]

Hopefully runDisney will be quick to respond to the swift negative feedback they have received directly from actual participants during Tink Weekend rather than basing decisions on numbers from their feedback surveys. Those surveys are vague and, I'm guessing (based on this guy I know), are filled out quickly without much thought given to the implications of each question. It'll be interesting to see where things go from here.

 

[camaker]

Hopefully runDisney will be quick to respond to the swift negative feedback they have received directly from actual participants during Tink Weekend rather than basing decisions on numbers from their feedback surveys. Those surveys are vague and, I'm guessing (based on this guy I know), are filled out quickly without much thought given to the implications of each question. It'll be interesting to see where things go from here.

When you are dealing with numbers in the thousands to tens of thousands, though, a company can't rely on word of mouth feedback alone. I think they definitely took a step in the wrong direction here, but it also sounds like previous runners bear some responsibility, too. I am sure you are not alone in your approach to the surveys, but it's kind of hypocritical of us as runners to demand that RunDisney listen to feedback, learn from mistakes and continuously improve the races and then turn around and not take the feedback surveys seriously when they are filling them out. The pressure on companies to provide cost savings is relentless. If the runners tell RunDisney that the entertainment category of lower priority (as indicated in the article), then we can hardly complain when entertainment budgets are cut. As with all things, though, it's about balance, and it seems RunDisney has a very hard time striking a good balance on the first try. They are much more an "act, evaluate, react" organization than a "right first time" one.

 

[Ariel484]

I got a runDisney race survey for the first time last week - the day after the Tink half. The way they asked the question, from what I remember, was that they had a list of 8-10 items and the respondent was supposed to pick the most important things and rank them 1-4. Of course it's been long enough that my feeble brain has forgotten the other items, but I know Entertainment was one of them, and I'd rank that as less important than something like water stops (again, can't remember exactly what the choices were, but it was something along those lines - and it won't let me re-open the survey since I already submitted it. Which - at least they built that safeguard in).

So I could see it as them saying it was lowest ranked...but I still ranked it as something important, ya know? Oh well.

 

[crewmatt]

I am glad I didnt run Tink! One thing I loved was that the article called out Third Shift Custodial - they were honestly one of my favorite parts of Disneyland races!

 

[Anisum]

I didn't follow the Tink thread close enough so I am very disappointed to hear that there was no entertainment on the back half because they didn't provide park tickets. On the one hand I'm torn because I didn't realize this is why many of these groups attended. I assumed they got volunteer hours or in the case of the Red Hat Ladies did it for fun. On the other hand, I understand why if it was expected that you would receive park tickets and Disney suddenly took that incentive away you might not feel the motivation to attend. If that's the case then it concerns me because I feel that the support in town is part of the runDisney experience I expect when running a DL race.

 

[Barca33Runner]

When you are dealing with numbers in the thousands to tens of thousands, though, a company can't rely on word of mouth feedback alone. I think they definitely took a step in the wrong direction here, but it also sounds like previous runners bear some responsibility, too. I am sure you are not alone in your approach to the surveys, but it's kind of hypocritical of us as runners to demand that RunDisney listen to feedback, learn from mistakes and continuously improve the races and then turn around and not take the feedback surveys seriously when they are filling them out. The pressure on companies to provide cost savings is relentless. If the runners tell RunDisney that the entertainment category of lower priority (as indicated in the article), then we can hardly complain when entertainment budgets are cut. As with all things, though, it's about balance, and it seems RunDisney has a very hard time striking a good balance on the first try. They are much more an "act, evaluate, react" organization than a "right first time" one.

I got a runDisney race survey for the first time last week - the day after the Tink half. The way they asked the question, from what I remember, was that they had a list of 8-10 items and the respondent was supposed to pick the most important things and rank them 1-4. Of course it's been long enough that my feeble brain has forgotten the other items, but I know Entertainment was one of them, and I'd rank that as less important than something like water stops (again, can't remember exactly what the choices were, but it was something along those lines - and it won't let me re-open the survey since I already submitted it. Which - at least they built that safeguard in).

So I could see it as them saying it was lowest ranked...but I still ranked it as something important, ya know? Oh well.

Kind of piggybacking both comments, I completely understand that they need to evaluate feedback from many resources and the surveys encompass many more runners and can thereby give a broader spectrum of the full experience. On the other hand, those surveys can feature leading questions, as @Ariel484's response indicates. I remember questions like that from the surveys, I don't agonize over my responses but I do read the surveys, and I am probably one of the people who contributed to a lower rating for on course entertainment. I am going to prioritize things like on course safety and hydration over entertainment, that doesn't mean entertainment is not integral to the rD experience.

I don't know, maybe everything is on the up and up and rD interpreted their survey results in a reasonable manner and ended up with a bad situation after they implemented them. That's more than likely what happened and they will course correct for the future. But, the cynic in me also believes rD knows how to manipulate survey results to support the changes they wish to make to cut costs in the future.

 

[ANIM8R]

Reading the mouseplanet article sure has me worried about the upcoming Disneyland half. I hope the problems (especially the long security lines!) are solved by that time.

 

[bumbershoot]

RunDisney's survey results from the last couple of races had Entertainment ranked lower on the list. Other small complaints like the choice of race day or start time (as in 5:00 a.m. or 5:30 a.m.) and even weather took precedence, so RunDisney decided to severely cut the entertainment budget.

The first time EVER they paid attention to a survey, and I think they read it upside down!

However...I think it was lame of the Red Hat Ladies to not be on the course because they didn't get complimentary park tickets. They only ever showed up to get tickets? Not a fan of that. I'm not sure if that also extends to dance groups, cheerleading squads, HS bands, etc.?

I guess mouseplanet would know, but it *feels* like a rumor that they are spreading that those groups get tickets. They aren't really citing sources; they aren't even saying "I know this because I know these groups". They are just saying it like it's known. And it's not.

I've heard some comments about people whining about fewer characters, but the issues were soooo much more extensive than that!

Saying it like that makes it sound like you think fewer charactersisn't worth talking about. I have literally stopped for one character (well, two, but they were both pirates meeting together) in the rundisney events I've done since 2013, so I don't care about stopping for them, but I care that they are out there AND I know that it's important.

They charge a HUGE price for a bib, and that price has to come with *something* interesting.

And they didn't even touch on the rumors that the course was cut short for some runners....

I hadn't even heard that one.

So I could see it as them saying it was lowest ranked...but I still ranked it as something important, ya know? Oh well.

Exactly.

I am going to prioritize things like on course safety and hydration over entertainment, that doesn't mean entertainment is not integral to the rD experience.

Yep!

But, the cynic in me also believes rD knows how to manipulate survey results to support the changes they wish to make to cut costs in the future.

100%. They only ask certain questions, and they ask it in a certain way. I used to do the disney surveys all the time, until I realized taht they are moving the questions in the direction that they want it to move. You can tell what they are trying to accomplish by reading how the question is asked and how it can be answered, once you've done enough of them.



WHAT were they thinking, not having the police or even CMs directing traffic out of the parking garage?

And no wonder I couldn't get any sort of handle on how the security was set up by reading the Tink thread or others about it. It sounds like a huge mess that makes NO sense at all.

 

[Warm Hugs]

From the article: If you haven't already contacted runDisney and really care about the future of runDisney races, now is the time. As one CM told me, "Some of my fellow cast members who are AV techs have told me there are also rumors of a location change and eliminating more entertainment, so I'd suggest those who miss these elements to be vocal."


Anybody catch this at end? "Location change"? Is this the reason for delay in star wars lightside and the inevitable tink reg delay? Could we be looking at the end of rundisney dl in 2017 as we know it? No more running through DL? Will they move it to outside the city of anaheim, set up a course like other runs, and just have characters on the course? This is getting serious

 

[pclvnmcky88]

I didn't participate in this weekend this year but I did run the challenge last year and have been following along. When I ran it last year it was the first DL race I participated in and I am running the Disneyland Half later this year. I must admit that in comparison to WDW races, I thought the entertainment and the size of the race extras in general was lacking, I did though very much enjoy running through both parks. I am not a huge fairy fan in the first place, so it was a race that I wanted to do at least once and it was over Mother's Day weekend so my mom was able to come. The entertainment along the courses is something I really enjoy seeing but not something I need necessarily. Just being down there, seeing the parks, seeing the runners in their costumes, etc really makes me happy. There were two fairy stops within DL and DCA last year and I didn't stop for either. The part outside of the park I did notice didn't have entertainment but neither does the last half of World Drive really so it wasn't a big deal for me. I really enjoyed seeing the Red Hat Ladies so that would've been disappointing. One of them stopped me in the park on Sunday with my medal and asked me if they could videotape a testimonial from me about how I felt about the Red Hat Ladies support during the Half. It was really cool. Tink is a race I'd def participate in again, but not every year. I'd be interested to see some changes to the theme, but that's just me! Congrats to everyone that participated in the race weekend.

 

[JulieODC]

The first time EVER they paid attention to a survey, and I think they read it upside down!




I guess mouseplanet would know, but it *feels* like a rumor that they are spreading that those groups get tickets. They aren't really citing sources; they aren't even saying "I know this because I know these groups". They are just saying it like it's known. And it's not.



Saying it like that makes it sound like you think fewer charactersisn't worth talking about. I have literally stopped for one character (well, two, but they were both pirates meeting together) in the rundisney events I've done since 2013, so I don't care about stopping for them, but I care that they are out there AND I know that it's important.

They charge a HUGE price for a bib, and that price has to come with *something* interesting.

Sorry - I definitely didn't mean it to come across that way at all - Even if that were the only issue of the weekend, it is absolutely a complaint worth making.

Someone on a FB group I'm part of for Tink actually did email the red hat ladies and posted their response. The email response indicated that the RHS would not be attending because of the ticket change. They attached the official message that was sent to red hat members too letting the know Disney wasn't offering tickets and therefore the group wouldn't have a presence at Tink this year

I'd cut and paste the verbatim response, but it's from a closed group.

 

[Dis_Yoda]

For the VIP group - it looks like they changed the idea from Light Side for the worse! Ours included either a breakfast or lunch at ESPN Zone as a private party on the second floor. It wasn't the best food but definitely better than what they got. Our extras defiantly seemed better. I would 100% do the VIP again for Light Side, provided they don't change it to like they did for Tink!

That is a shame about the Red Hat Ladies and the bands! I thought they did it out of enjoyment rather than because they got something out of it.

Also, how angry is Anaheim at Disney?

 

[Sailormoon2]

Thank you for posting that article, it was a very interesting read. I agree with all the previous comments, so no point reiterating them. It does make me pause (and worry a little) about the future of RunD in general. It's all so confusing when you consider how amazing the set-up and characters were for Dark Side this year, and the a month later (yes, I know it's on the other coast, but still) to down-grade everything so considerably!!??

 

[alexce]

This is all such a bummer. We've done one Light Side weekend, and it was so awesome that we've been looking forward to planning another DL race. But not if it's like this.

Let's hope RunD figures it out soon enough to preserve its customer base.

 

[bumbershoot]

The email response indicated that the RHS would not be attending because of the ticket change.

Man that's such a bummer.

I thought they did it out of enjoyment rather than because they got something out of it.

Same here. I had NO idea they did it for self-serving purposes. Since DL only goes to a Half, that's, what, 4ish hours out there and they used to earn a one-day ticket for it? Nice job. But I thought they were volunteering. Meh.

Also, how angry is Anaheim at Disney?

Pretty sure "very".

Let's hope RunD figures it out soon enough to preserve its customer base.

They'll just get new customers. Sigh.

 

[bellrae]

The article is a great read. I am doing the dl half weekend in September and I am hoping they learn the lessons of tinkerbell before then...