"Tiered Loyalty Program" -- any ideas?

[BWV Dreamin]

I could live with almost any tiered benefit they give to large point holders EXCEPT home resort booking advantages. Lets just hope they don't go there. I have absolutely NO plans to add-on.

 

[Starr W.]

Hmm, I see Carl's win has put BWV Dreamin in a really good mood.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Hmm, I see Carl's win has put BWV Dreamin in a really good mood.

 

[tjkraz]

There seems to be a lot of fretting over the exact phrase "tiered loyalty program." For what it's worth, I don't recall Jim Lewis ever describing it in that manner.

At the condo meeting, a member said that she owned about 1600 points and asked why DVC did not have a program to give her extra benefits. Lewis said that they had been working on some sort of reward program for quite a while which would give extra benefits to those who owned OR referred purchases of a significant number of points.

I don't recall any mention of it being a "loyalty" program or it having "tiers", unless you want to count eligibles and non-eligibles as tiers.

My sense is that it will provide minor perks but not really touch the core of the DVC system--things like a couple of the "immediate FastPasses" per trip, free refillable mug, perhaps extra banking privileges or waiver of some fees.

I also believe that current point ownership will apply toward qualification for the perks. Direct purchases, at least. After all, it wouldn't be much value to the 1600 point owner if she found out that she had to purchase even more points after some arbitrary date in order to qualify. Referrals could go either way--they could count past referrals toward qualification or stipulate that only newly referred business applies.

 

[ADP]

I was at the meeting and thought he mentioned something to the effect that it would be based on the number of points you owned. I could of been dreaming, but I thought he mentioned that.

 

[Greysword]

LOL! As I type this the Journey into Imagination area music plays on my mp3 player

I can see WDW offering ticket related incentives to members with a large number of points (such as non-expiration free, seven days for the price of a 5-day ticket, etc). Other incentives may be one free table service dinner for the whole party or reduced DDP (or free upgrade to deluxe), since members with lots of points will either have a large party on fewer visits or visit more often. Either way, an incentive to purchase the dinning plan would be in Disney's best interest.

The core question comes back to whom DVD feels are their core constituency and how can they incentivize more to join (new sales directly through DVD) or how to entice existing members to go to the next level. As such, I think there could likely be specific incentives for new purchases over a given amount (100-150 points?). Also, there will likely be incentives for those with a higher point total (if they were the original purchaser of these points from DVD). The two will likely be mutually exclusive (much like current members can not request the Fast Passes, new tote bag, or cruise given for new contracts).

To that end, I can see a higher threshold of 1,000+ points with super incentives (non-expiration on park tickets, free dining, no admin fee on exchanges, cruise options), a mid tier of 350-999 points with incentives designed to motivate more purchases over a longer period of time (access to concierge services, larger discounts on dining or discounted DDP, 10-20% discount on park tickets (like other groups such as the military)), and a low tier with the incentives we currently have (resales and members with less than 350 points). Of course they could bump my mid-tier to the 500-999 range and make a 200-499 range to entice more people out of the 160 point level (trade out to RCI threshold?).

Anyway, I am grateful we have this forum to discuss this and get it on our radar. Many non-connected members will be very surprised of the changes if/when they come.

- Chris

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I suspect that my 100 points purchased resale...would not put me in the most ideal place in the program.

The best I could hope for would be..."no harm".

 

[crisi]

It wouldn't surprise me to see them drop "perks" for low point owners (no AP discount) but retain them for high point owners. i.e. it may not be a matter of "what else will we get" but "what will some people get to keep."

 

[Brian Noble]

As we approach the March 20 deadline for purchasing resale with full benefits, a lot of us have been asking "What's the next shoe to drop?"

I suspect the answer is "not much", and "not for a while," because the coming scheme may well be enough to move the needle on conversion rates.

Originally, I was convinced that these new resale restrictions would be roundly viewed as meaningless. After all, they are almost always poor uses of points to begin with, and you'd be better off renting out your points and using the proceeds to book the cruise, hotel, or guided tour you desired. I was sure that the overall market would place little or no value on the change. And a truly rational customer would do so.

But, if you look at the Usual Suspects' online inventory listings, resales are literally flying off the shelves. People are falling all over themselves to get in before the door closes. In short, I was wrong---the market is not viewing this change in purely dollars and cents terms.

If that's true today---after people have had a chance to digest the pros and cons---then that's likely to remain true going forward. Anyone on the sales floor who thinks resale is the way to go will be presented with the "butyoucan'ts" from the Guide. And, the evidence at hand suggests some will be swayed.

I guess it's time for me to find the time to read David Brooks' new book.

 

[Dizny Dad]

 

[dianeschlicht]

Brian, I would have been with you on that idea that the new rule would be mostly meaningless. I guess new buyers don't seem to think that way though.

I'm also of the mind that I expect the folks who own very small contracts only purchased via resale might be limited in some of the more significant perks. I'm especially thinking the AP discount. In fact, that really does, on some level make a little business sense too. I can see them requiring the minimum that they sell direct and require at least that many points to have been purchased direct to qualify for the AP discount. That would leave those people who purchased only small resales out of the AP discount. Frankly, I can see that being a much better incentive to buy direct than this resale thing they are doing now.

 

[mjc2003]

I'm also of the mind that I expect the folks who own very small contracts only purchased via resale might be limited in some of the more significant perks. I'm especially thinking the AP discount. In fact, that really does, on some level make a little business sense too. I can see them requiring the minimum that they sell direct and require at least that many points to have been purchased direct to qualify for the AP discount. That would leave those people who purchased only small resales out of the AP discount. Frankly, I can see that being a much better incentive to buy direct than this resale thing they are doing now.

While this makes perfect sense, I think this misses the point of what they are trying to do. If they offer an AP discount to people buying direct or those who have bought direct, how does this drive more business? I have a resale contract, am I going to go spend another 15k on more points I don't need to get an AP discount?

I think this will be the most subjective, non-offensive concept applicable: Tiers based on points. 1-250 pts will probably stay the same. 251-499 will get some benefits, AP discount of 20%, 200 day booking window on dining, 1 free fast pass per day-per traveler, etc...(these are obviously just examples, not anything well thought out or concrete).
500+ pt holders will get a 12/8 booking window, 50% AP discount, 1 free dining experience per trip, 2 free FP's per day per traveler, 360 day dining reservation window, and an exclusive reservation number to call, no waiting.

Ultimately it's not about them creating tiers, but creating enough incentive to drive somebody from the lower tiers into the upper. For this reason the delineation won't just be 2 tiers, there will probably be 3. They don't want the people with 150-200 points to find the 500 pt threshold unattainable, so they will make a mid-tier.
But the key is the incentives. This won't be designed to punish anybody, only reward those who spend more buying direct. But this is a tough economy, and many are tapped out or don't need more--so they need to make it worthwhile. If they think a few token perks are going to get people to rush to spend thousands of dollars, I think they'll have missed the mark.

(Disclaimer: What do I know!)

 

[dianeschlicht]

While this makes perfect sense, I think this misses the point of what they are trying to do. If they offer an AP discount to people buying direct or those who have bought direct, how does this drive more business? I have a resale contract, am I going to go spend another 15k on more points I don't need to get an AP discount?

I think this will be the most subjective, non-offensive concept applicable: Tiers based on points. 1-250 pts will probably stay the same. 251-499 will get some benefits, AP discount of 20%, 200 day booking window on dining, 1 free fast pass per day-per traveler, etc...(these are obviously just examples, not anything well thought out or concrete).
500+ pt holders will get a 12/8 booking window, 50% AP discount, 1 free dining experience per trip, 2 free FP's per day per traveler, 360 day dining reservation window, and an exclusive reservation number to call, no waiting.

Ultimately it's not about them creating tiers, but creating enough incentive to drive somebody from the lower tiers into the upper. For this reason the delineation won't just be 2 tiers, there will probably be 3. They don't want the people with 150-200 points to find the 500 pt threshold unattainable, so they will make a mid-tier.
But the key is the incentives. This won't be designed to punish anybody, only reward those who spend more buying direct. But this is a tough economy, and many are tapped out or don't need more--so they need to make it worthwhile. If they think a few token perks are going to get people to rush to spend thousands of dollars, I think they'll have missed the mark.

(Disclaimer: What do I know!)

But I think requiring minimum point totals for the AP discount WILL cause people to buy at least that many points direct. Sure, they might now have a 50 point contract they purchased via resale, but if that requirement went into effect, they would be more likely inclined to buy at least 100 points direct to keep it.

I certainly hope your examples don't come true. There was a time when the minimum buy it for DVC was 230 points. I would hate to see those with at least 230 but under 500 left out of what they already get now. I suspect (based on some polls on this board) that the majority of DVC owners fall in the 230-400 range, so I can't see them alienating such a large group.

I know that if they take away the AP voucher, we certainly will not travel to WDW as often, and would likely sell some of our points. As it is, we go 2-3 trips a year and spend around 28-30 days on each AP in WDW. That means we are there buying food, tours, sundries, etc, etc, etc. If we no longer had the AP discount, we would go back to what we did before. We wouldn't be traveling to WDW as often, so we would ultimately spend less at Disney, and wouldn't need as many points.

 

[mjc2003]

But I think requiring minimum point totals for the AP discount WILL cause people to buy at least that many points direct. Sure, they might now have a 50 point contract they purchased via resale, but if that requirement went into effect, they would be more likely inclined to buy at least 100 points direct to keep it.

I certainly hope your examples don't come true. There was a time when the minimum buy it for DVC was 230 points. I would hate to see those with at least 230 but under 500 left out of what they already get now. I suspect (based on some polls on this board) that the majority of DVC owners fall in the 230-400 range, so I can't see them alienating such a large group.

I don't think somebody with 50 points would add on 50 points for an AP discount. 100 points is barely one trip per year.
My numbers were pulled out of thin air. My point was to say that they will give increased benefits to those in the 250-500 range, and I'm not so sure this is the majority, but that I don't know.

Maybe they keep the AP discount as is for under 250, increase it for those in the 250-500 range, etc....

Again, my numbers are not scientific. My overall point is, whatever they do will be designed to encourage people to buy more points. The logical assumption would be that this would be done with tiers, and each tier would provide tangible, desirable benefits. This might include eliminate some benefits on the lowest end (no AP discounts for those under a certain pt threshold) in order to encourage a bump up, but who knows.

They know how to run the numbers. If most members hold less than 300 points, they will make 300 the 1st tier. This will designed to be attainable, attractive and tangible. Therefore, sellable.

 

[bobbiwoz]

This current resale market has stunned me. I know that my DVC points mean more to me than what some people are selling for. I do not expect to have to sell them,

We've bought about 2/3 of our approximately 1200 points direct, but and I know that we are finished buying. I do not expect any extra perks from Disney, but we have no other timeshare experience.

Bobbi

PS. Some people with the lower number of points only come every other, or even every 3rd year, and so, they may buy an AP every other, or third year, so I can see some that buy more to reach a "minimum" level of perks.

 

[dcamdad]

This may be directed for Dean or some of the other timeshare "gurus" for an explanation or answer.

As for extending the booking windows to 12/8 for a select group to as others have mentioned, wouldn't DVC be violating the POS for booking windows? I do not have my POS available until I return home this weekend, but I remember that there is wording giving all owners a 30 day advantage to non-owners. If,and its a big if IMHO, DVC extends the booking window for the select few wouldn't they be in breach of contract to what is in the POS for all owners?

Personally since JL has been in charge it seems that he wants to make DVC for an exclusive class not the average family. I'm not against some form of reward for those that have tons of points and can afford multiple yearly trips, but if by rewarding the few and penalizing the average does not seem in line with Walt's ideas or even what we puchased over 15 years ago.

 

[dianeschlicht]

This may be directed for Dean or some of the other timeshare "gurus" for an explanation or answer.

As for extending the booking windows to 12/8 for a select group to as others have mentioned, wouldn't DVC be violating the POS for booking windows? I do not have my POS available until I return home this weekend, but I remember that there is wording giving all owners a 30 day advantage to non-owners. If,and its a big if IMHO, DVC extends the booking window for the select few wouldn't they be in breach of contract to what is in the POS for all owners?

Personally since JL has been in charge it seems that he wants to make DVC for an exclusive class not the average family. I'm not against some form of reward for those that have tons of points and can afford multiple yearly trips, but if by rewarding the few and penalizing the average does not seem in line with Walt's ideas or even what we puchased over 15 years ago.

No, because I believe in the POS it says they have the ability to CHANGE the POS offerings without input from the members.

 

[tjkraz]

As for extending the booking windows to 12/8 for a select group to as others have mentioned, wouldn't DVC be violating the POS for booking windows? I do not have my POS available until I return home this weekend, but I remember that there is wording giving all owners a 30 day advantage to non-owners.

I don't know about 12/8 but 11/10 seems doable. That would still give all owners the guaranteed booking advantage at their Home while some members would have an advantage booking at non-home locations.

Not that I really think it would happen.

Personally since JL has been in charge it seems that he wants to make DVC for an exclusive class not the average family. I'm not against some form of reward for those that have tons of points and can afford multiple yearly trips, but if by rewarding the few and penalizing the average does not seem in line with Walt's ideas or even what we puchased over 15 years ago.

I would actually go the other direction on that--I don't think DVC was ever aimed at the "average family" but they've spent particularly the last 6-7 years making it more accessible.

Over the years the minimum buy-in has gone from 230 points to as little as 50. Financing couldn't be easier with low downpayments. Advertising is everywhere--sending a message that if you can afford a direct debit of a couple hundred dollars per month, you can "own a piece of the magic!" Occupancy limits have been relaxed to allow even more people to cram into a room--to the point where there aren't even enough beds for all of the occupants.

Walt designed Disneyland as a place where families could have fun together, but there has always been a cost associated with that enjoyment. Frankly, when Disney built those gorgeous rooms at OKW nearly 20 years ago, I don't think the intent was that any dual income family would be a prime candidate for ownership.

Problem with discussing this is it's 99.9% speculation. You talk about "rewarding the few and penalizing the average" but we don't even know if that will happen. And I can't think of any other good examples of this being reflected in DVC policies.

 

[Greysword]

Originally, I was convinced that these new resale restrictions would be roundly viewed as meaningless... I was sure that the overall market would place little or no value on the change. And a truly rational customer would do so.

But, if you look at the Usual Suspects' online inventory listings, resales are literally flying off the shelves. People are falling all over themselves to get in before the door closes...

The arguments you made are quite rational and informed, but they are likely rooted in the extensive knowledge you have on the DVC system. That said, I would guess the fast pace of resales is likely from buyers, who were already planning on it or were at least on the fence. The logic I would have if I were purchasing is to move now, so I could the same product with more benefits for the same price (or at least a good price).

It is kind of fun to watch all the SSR inventory shrink, and I am pleased for everyone (the buyers who get a great membership, the sellers who may have fallen on hard times, DVD who will be able to reduce the competition from resales, and the current owners who can watch the falling prices level off).

Great job, DVD! It seems your strategy is working.

 

[dbs1228]

I have to agree that taken away or decreasing the AP discount for smaller contracts would not encourage people to buy more points. Before they had the park hoppers that expire we used to purchase the 10 day park hoppers (no expiration) and use them for 3 visits!(family of 5) We limited our park days and did "down days every other day". We would have no problem doing that again which means we would be in the parks much less, spending less money and eating in our villa more often.