Dean
DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis
- Joined
- Aug 19, 1999
- Messages
- 39,228
As I posted on a couple of threads already, I had an interesting conversation with DVC today. Two people including the compliance officer. Topics included:
The first topic was the most lively, how the direct points exchanges are administered. This is viewed as a developer program that is an add on. It is administered by DVD, not DVC and as such could not discuss specifics of resort discounts, CRO charges or the percent of points given up that are rented out. That is a reasonable position, IMO. Matt Gibbs previously told me 75% on average were rented but that was a few years and a couple of resorts ago. They did say that the goal was a zero sum gain. Essentially take the negotiated price, rent the points and pay CRO with a zero balance. They seemed to say that members either liked it or they didnt. Some used it a lot and others felt it was a poor value, much like we see here on this board. There is a committee that discusses resort addition and deletions for both II and CC. Per their discussion it appears that Atlantis was removed due to lack of availability but that they are actively watching it and as soon as availability starts to show up in II, they will add it back. This was the plan all along from what they said. They actually have direct access to the II quality and review information as well as general availability of resorts.
The II discussions were next in order and in volume. We discussed the old and new systems. The two people I was discussing with stated that exchanges within 60 days were always the full points price for that option. This is contrary to what I was told by several upper level people when the old system was in place and than people posted they paid on this board, ie 55 points for a 2 BR (Spiceycat take notice). The $95 resort services fee is essentially a premium tax though it is also used to fund the MS portion to cover II members that call with requests and other reservations (dining). It didnt sound like they had too much negative feedback on it from those that exchanged in, at least not enough to convince them to consider dropping it. Apparently only charged at WDW, not a VB or HH. BTW, those that are II AND DVC members still pay the $95 fee if they exchange in, I had to ask, LOL. Overall they felt the exchanges were less points to the members than previously. That didnt surprise me as most exchanges are 1 and 2 BRs, they did admit the studios were a lot more.
I had asked about the difference in wording for the DC and the others (DCL, CC, Adven col). It was explained it was simply a wording issue and the intent was the same and indeed they have since corrected the Member Benefits Guidebook since we set up the meeting. Correction date of 8/24/04 and they put both pieces of info in bold.
BVTC was very interesting. Id assumed it was administered much like CC, etc by renting out the points. But its actually a direct exchange of accommodations. Each side essentially lets the other make a few reservations and hope they even out. If they dont one side quits for a while until they do. This was very interesting to me.
I had asked about the $20 ROFR fee but we didnt get to it and the answer had come previously that it was a fee for recording the ROFR waiver and not charged by DVC itself. WHEN does DVC cancel reservations when a contract goes to right of first refusal? Apparently the notify the broker and seller at the time its sent for ROFR about the reservations and resulting points discrepancies but dont actually cancel the pending reservations until its recorded with the county. Of course this is one where the answer could change tomorrow.
As I noted in the Occupancy thread, DVCs official stance is the limits listed in the POS. They will not be the occupancy police and count heads. They did seem surprised that the guides, front desks and MS were being so lax with the issue though, so dont be surprised if there are changes in the future.
Reallocation, no current or anticipated plans.
SSR, they seemed interested in the fact there were only 2 BBQ grills for the 4 buildings and interested in correcting that. It seems to me itd be easy to add another grill at the current location or another location in the area. We discussed the idea of more desirable vs. less desirable buildings. They are keeping an eye on this issue but didnt really think it was going to be a problem. They stated they could do two classes of points if need be though itd take some legal paperwork and scramblings. I didnt get the impression they were likely to go this route. We didnt get to discuss the smallness of the pool or possible corrective actions.
Regarding the end of the current resorts. I offered that I saw four options. These were keep the resorts open longer to allow people to use their points, a lottery, proration or a free for all. They agreed and didnt have any others to add to the list. The issue apparently has been batted around but no decisions have been made or are even close, no big surprise as its still quite a ways away. I did get the distinct impression that BOTH banking and borrowing were likely to be restricted late in the course, again, no big surprise.
Ive tried to define and report these issues as honestly and objectively as I could, I hope Ive done that successfully. But it is what I know and can post, not an official DVC or DVD stance. I hope you find it helpful and interesting.
- Direct exchange options including DCL, DC and CC.
- II exchanges
- BVTC exchanges.
- DVC's $95 resort services fee for incoming II exchanges.
- How the exchange values are calcualted, ie how many points.
- The process for adding and deleting new II and CC resorts.
- The rules regarding direct points exchanges being within the use year.
- 2042 and the winding down of the resorts.
- SSR resorts and the idea of two points levels.
- Clarifiy the actual point that pending reservations are cancelled with a sales contract and ROFR/transfer.
- SSR including BBQ grills and building locations/desirability.
- Occupancy (added today).
- Reallocation (added today).
The first topic was the most lively, how the direct points exchanges are administered. This is viewed as a developer program that is an add on. It is administered by DVD, not DVC and as such could not discuss specifics of resort discounts, CRO charges or the percent of points given up that are rented out. That is a reasonable position, IMO. Matt Gibbs previously told me 75% on average were rented but that was a few years and a couple of resorts ago. They did say that the goal was a zero sum gain. Essentially take the negotiated price, rent the points and pay CRO with a zero balance. They seemed to say that members either liked it or they didnt. Some used it a lot and others felt it was a poor value, much like we see here on this board. There is a committee that discusses resort addition and deletions for both II and CC. Per their discussion it appears that Atlantis was removed due to lack of availability but that they are actively watching it and as soon as availability starts to show up in II, they will add it back. This was the plan all along from what they said. They actually have direct access to the II quality and review information as well as general availability of resorts.
The II discussions were next in order and in volume. We discussed the old and new systems. The two people I was discussing with stated that exchanges within 60 days were always the full points price for that option. This is contrary to what I was told by several upper level people when the old system was in place and than people posted they paid on this board, ie 55 points for a 2 BR (Spiceycat take notice). The $95 resort services fee is essentially a premium tax though it is also used to fund the MS portion to cover II members that call with requests and other reservations (dining). It didnt sound like they had too much negative feedback on it from those that exchanged in, at least not enough to convince them to consider dropping it. Apparently only charged at WDW, not a VB or HH. BTW, those that are II AND DVC members still pay the $95 fee if they exchange in, I had to ask, LOL. Overall they felt the exchanges were less points to the members than previously. That didnt surprise me as most exchanges are 1 and 2 BRs, they did admit the studios were a lot more.
I had asked about the difference in wording for the DC and the others (DCL, CC, Adven col). It was explained it was simply a wording issue and the intent was the same and indeed they have since corrected the Member Benefits Guidebook since we set up the meeting. Correction date of 8/24/04 and they put both pieces of info in bold.
BVTC was very interesting. Id assumed it was administered much like CC, etc by renting out the points. But its actually a direct exchange of accommodations. Each side essentially lets the other make a few reservations and hope they even out. If they dont one side quits for a while until they do. This was very interesting to me.
I had asked about the $20 ROFR fee but we didnt get to it and the answer had come previously that it was a fee for recording the ROFR waiver and not charged by DVC itself. WHEN does DVC cancel reservations when a contract goes to right of first refusal? Apparently the notify the broker and seller at the time its sent for ROFR about the reservations and resulting points discrepancies but dont actually cancel the pending reservations until its recorded with the county. Of course this is one where the answer could change tomorrow.
As I noted in the Occupancy thread, DVCs official stance is the limits listed in the POS. They will not be the occupancy police and count heads. They did seem surprised that the guides, front desks and MS were being so lax with the issue though, so dont be surprised if there are changes in the future.
Reallocation, no current or anticipated plans.
SSR, they seemed interested in the fact there were only 2 BBQ grills for the 4 buildings and interested in correcting that. It seems to me itd be easy to add another grill at the current location or another location in the area. We discussed the idea of more desirable vs. less desirable buildings. They are keeping an eye on this issue but didnt really think it was going to be a problem. They stated they could do two classes of points if need be though itd take some legal paperwork and scramblings. I didnt get the impression they were likely to go this route. We didnt get to discuss the smallness of the pool or possible corrective actions.
Regarding the end of the current resorts. I offered that I saw four options. These were keep the resorts open longer to allow people to use their points, a lottery, proration or a free for all. They agreed and didnt have any others to add to the list. The issue apparently has been batted around but no decisions have been made or are even close, no big surprise as its still quite a ways away. I did get the distinct impression that BOTH banking and borrowing were likely to be restricted late in the course, again, no big surprise.
Ive tried to define and report these issues as honestly and objectively as I could, I hope Ive done that successfully. But it is what I know and can post, not an official DVC or DVD stance. I hope you find it helpful and interesting.
