Thread on the CB has really got me mad!

[mickeyfan2]

I've been reading the posts too and it's taken a major amount of self-control not to reply. I'm Catholic and I'm thankful that I hear a quite different message when I go to Mass on Sunday - Gays and Lesbians are full participants every week ... but maybe we read a different bible! It's frustrating to see that some posters seem to choose to take the bible literally when it suits their own agenda but ignore the sections that dispute their beliefs.

I too am Catholic and I believe that God made each and every one of us exactly the way he wanted. We are never made perfect and the world would be a boring place if we all were.

I have a Gay cousin and I love him dearly. I know he was born that way and it does not matter to me why. His SO is a great guy and I know that they would love to adopt, but cannot at this time.

Actually our Bible is different. We have more books in our Bible and a different translation. I once saw a Protestant Theologian speak and he said the big difference between Catholics and Protestants is that Catholics are more spiritual (take the Bible are a guide) and Protestants more theological (take the Bible verbatium).

I too am sorry for all the hate on that thread. I stopped reading it very early. The same group seems to love to spew their venom and stand behind the Bible as proof they are right. To me the Bible is a way to treat others not to put others down.

 

[carolfoy]

I don't agree that being gay or lesbian is a 'lifestyle' choice, I feel that where you work, who you live with (regardless of sexuality) how many kids you have etc is a 'lifestyle' choice, sure, there are gays who enjoy the whole 'scene' and those particular parties/clubs etc, but there are straight people who enjoy the same or entirely different 'scenes'. Unless people are pretending to be something they're not, ie gay when straight or straight when gay, then I'm not sure they actually HAVE a choice.

 

[mickeyfan2]

There is one poster in particular that always, always has to state his opinion, founded on his strong belief in God and the Bible. Without fail, he always states that with prayer and an equally strong belief system we (gays anbd lesbians) can overcome our unnatural urges and choose to live heterosexual lives that fit the norm and God's will.

It may have worked for him, albeit it temporarily in my mind, but it won't and doesn't work for everyone.

I checked out the poster you are refering to. I find I skip his posts since I never find much value in what he says. I have no idea what God's will is, how could I? I am not God. People like him really make me hang my head in shame as a Christian. I believe in love and acceptance not hatred and bigotry.

 

[SteeleTig]

I made my way over there and posted a little bit from my perspective, I think I'm post number 509. In case you don't go over there to read I'm going to post my response below as it is the antithesis of what a lot of the "Christians" are posting they are taught.

"Just a little posting from my perspective...

My maternal grandfather was (he passed away) a United Church of Christ minister. He had a Doctorate in theology from a major university as well as having graduated from a major theological seminary. (I tell you this just to illustrate he had studied religion, most especially Christianity extensively). His minstery took him to 4 different states, from urban to rural (the longest times he was in one church were rural), he started his ministery in the early 40's and continued until the mid/late 80's when he retired (but he still did vacation fill in minstering until he passed away). Now with all that info, this is/was my granndfather's stance on homosexuality... as told to me from the youngest ages:
God loves everyone, regardless of whom they love, or how they live their lives. God wants everyone to find the person who makes them so happy they will no longer doubt that God exists and what it feels like to be loved by God. God wants you to find the person, regardless of gender, who can make you believe in the love of God.

Being as I have literally lived IN a church and was raised with everything in my life being tied into the church and religion being in every aspect of my life... I do not understand the haters who try to hide behind the Bible, using the passages to defend their hate. You can find a passage in the Bible to suppport any claim, it's all up to your interpretation.

God does not want you to hate and it is not up to YOU to judge. Going by the Bible as i know it... the real Christians are the ones who love and accept unconditionally, not the haters and judgers."

 

[Texa]

It's interesting to speculate about the psychological make-up of someone who confuses "knowing" and "believing." You certainly can't get through to someone who claims to "know" something that reasonable people consider a matter of faith. I think "knowing" that there is a hell is delusional. In the case of the poster whom Rick references, I suspect the delusion is not based in a general propensity to credulity so much as in a need to espouse a very particular set of ideas, perhaps for the reasons Rick states (battling own homosexual urges) or perhaps because absolute certainty helps him to cope with an otherwise confusing internal landscape. He may have had very authoritarian parenting, and need to believe that there is a protector available to him who will vindicate all the wrongs others can perpetrate. I do imagine that he projects his own (to him unacceptable) urges (not necessarily homosexual) onto others and then condemns them to hell (note his grandiose assumption that he knows the mind of his god) in proportion to his failure to accept himself. Just some thoughts.

That's a great post. Very insightful. I know someone like this IRL and it makes a lot of sense. I think that's why the phrase (in general) "I tell it like it is!" bothers me so much. I always want to say, you mean you tell it like you see it!

 

[RickinNYC]

It's interesting to speculate about the psychological make-up of someone who confuses "knowing" and "believing." You certainly can't get through to someone who claims to "know" something that reasonable people consider a matter of faith. I think "knowing" that there is a hell is delusional. In the case of the poster whom Rick references, I suspect the delusion is not based in a general propensity to credulity so much as in a need to espouse a very particular set of ideas, perhaps for the reasons Rick states (battling own homosexual urges) or perhaps because absolute certainty helps him to cope with an otherwise confusing internal landscape. He may have had very authoritarian parenting, and need to believe that there is a protector available to him who will vindicate all the wrongs others can perpetrate. I do imagine that he projects his own (to him unacceptable) urges (not necessarily homosexual) onto others and then condemns them to hell (note his grandiose assumption that he knows the mind of his god) in proportion to his failure to accept himself. Just some thoughts.

I couldn't agree more, however, in this particular poster's case, he has said on more than one occasion, quite a long time ago, that his faith in prayer and strong belief in God was what had allowed him to choose the right path and live in a lifestyle that is more acceptable to his church's and his own beliefs.

I honestly think that's a pant load truth be told. Anyone that is able to do that is simply repressing one's own desires and need to love whom one wants to as opposed to whom society dictates. It is a path that is bound for tremendous failure. There have been far too many people out there who have been put through so much intense pain and grief because their wife/husband came out later in life.

In any case, this poster and one other are incredibly preoccupied with what goes on in gay folks' bedrooms to the point that their interest borders on obsession. God knows I could care less what they do in their own homes, not sure why they feel the need to know what goes on in mine.

Although whenever anyone gets caught up in their need to espouse anti-gay remarks with the vehemence in which they are known, it really makes me wonder what their true motives are. Those folks need to look into themselves and really find out exactly what the driving force is, whether it's repression (in a LOT of cases) or simple ignorance and poor education.

 

[Mama Twinkles]

he has said on more than one occasion, quite a long time ago, that his faith in prayer and strong belief in God was what had allowed him to choose the right path and live in a lifestyle that is more acceptable to his church's and his own beliefs.

Yes, it's as if he believes that without very rigidly controlling himself, he would be out of control or immoral in his behavior (exactly how he views gays). Setting aside whatever standards of scrupulosity he holds (to him, swearing in his mind might equate with being immoral), he sounds like the would-be criminal who goes into law enforcement instead, never truly accepting and controlling his impulses, but instead working vengefully to punish others for the same ones. Some people (usually empathy-challenged, and notice his lack of empathy toward those who disagree with him, even to the point where he drives them to tears, all while posting sunshiny smilies and professing to love everyone) have very rigid ideas about right and wrong, and can't tolerate what they perceive as wrong in themselves. So they project it outward and then castigate those they project onto. Gays are just the targets of projection du jour. But that fact that he would go to delusional extremes to uphold his rigid framework testifies to just how afraid he is of having the dam break and how incapable of deep acceptance he is.

 

[Mama Twinkles]

That's a great post. Very insightful. I know someone like this IRL and it makes a lot of sense. I think that's why the phrase (in general) "I tell it like it is!" bothers me so much. I always want to say, you mean you tell it like you see it!

Thanks, Texa. Arrogance is so off-putting (even when the person is right), and it certainly doesn't strengthen an argument or openness to one's perspective. I'm sure a panel of impartial judges would not think that the most arrogant posters on the CB thread had even minimally supported their cases. So it doesn't really matter that they think they are stating the obvious and that everyone else 's argument is without merit; no minds were changed in their favor and they generated a fair degree of antipathy for their tone-deaf perspective.

 

[Sinboy]

I know your all gonna flame me for this - but it is possible that you can be gay by choice and by being born gay. i know because I am in a relationship where one of us was born gay the other chose a change in lifestyle and today chooses to be in a gay relationship. It's wonderful that we have t he opportunity to make choices for ourselves and yet be embraced by others for it.

xoxo
Sinful

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I haven't even opened the thread on the CB because I won't be able to play nice if I do.

Here is what it boils down to:
If society told me I "should" be a lesbian I would be completely bewildered. I am straight. Not by choice, but just because. I never even THOUGHT about who I would fall in love with, I just happened to love boys. Isn't that exactly the same thing gay and lesbian folks feel when society tells them they "should" love the opposite sex? It must feel so UNnatural that it is almost laughable. So how could anyone CHOOSE to be gay? The attraction we feel for another person is pre-determined, be it a person of the opposite sex or the same sex.

Of course it's not a CHOICE!

 

[SteeleTig]

Yeah, my first post there was something along the lines of...
You can't choose who you love and if you think you can then you've obviously never been in love.

 

[staci]

Yeah, my first post there was something along the lines of...
You can't choose who you love and if you think you can then you've obviously never been in love.

Oh my gosh that is so true.

 

[toto2]

I posted on this thread , I continue reading it and might post again.

I can understand that some of the people who posted ther gets us mad , but others are harmelss. In fact , I think a few of them got a bad wrapp they did not deserve. I kind of understand what some of them say when they talk about there belief in god , and how they follow there religion and what they think there religion says about homosexuality. And I feel I could be sitting with them , having great conversation and trully like them and they would trully like me ( exept for my "sins" I guess. And I know for sure a lot of them would not want to see me near them ! Maybe it is because we dont see this type of religiosity here in Canada ( at least here in Québec) that makes me feel this way. I did not feel persecuted by a lot of the comment I read there. Maybe it is just me or that I am missing something in the translation. Now , as far as Joe and people like him goes...I dont even get mad at them : they have found a way to have all there questions answered and obliterate every doubt they might have. Ignorance is bliss !

 

[MzDiz]

I have a good friend that chose (or so she said) to be gay. She had never been in a relationship with another woman until she met her SO, and always called it an experiment. That experiment lasted over ten years.
Personally, I don't care if someone is born that way or chooses to be with someone of the same sex, or a multitude of people of whatever sex. We should treat everyone with respect and dignity equally, regardless of who they share the morning paper with.

That thread, that's something else though... The whole board is arguing with two or three people, who say nothing but a variation of "it's true because my bible says so"
I never did get an answer to my question about who intersexed people should marry. Maybe I've stumped them.

 

[dkostel]

God loves everyone, regardless of whom they love, or how they live their lives. God wants everyone to find the person who makes them so happy they will no longer doubt that God exists and what it feels like to be loved by God. God wants you to find the person, regardless of gender, who can make you believe in the love of God.

Wow, that's really nice. I'm not sure how anyone could argue with that but I'm sure I'd rather try to teach a pig to sing than argue with such a person.
It brought a tear to my eye, making me remember my own grandparents, who although weren't ministers, were beautiful loving people like your grandfather.

 

[SunFloridaDisney]

I haven't even opened the thread on the CB because I won't be able to play nice if I do.

That's similar to how I feel about it. I started reading some of the posts in the beginning, but soon realized it was going to turn into another of "those" threads, particularly with the poster in question who Rick referred to. Some posters seem to just want to stir up controversy - maybe that's how they get their fun?

I get too angry, and have found that there's no convincing some people. They are ignorant and 'choose' to stay that way, apparently.

Personally I think I have much more of a positive influence in my own family and church than on a message board with some very annoying, small-minded people. I'm not persuasive enough with my writing to make a difference, but I often do stand up for the rights of others IRL.

As a C(?)SP, I'm trying to teach love and respect to my kids, and they learn that best from the way I interact with others, and how we speak in our home.

 

[disneynutt1225]

I checked out the poster you are refering to. I find I skip his posts since I never find much value in what he says. I have no idea what God's will is, how could I? I am not God. People like him really make me hang my head in shame as a Christian. I believe in love and acceptance not hatred and bigotry.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm staying away from that thread now because it doesn't seem like anything new is going to be said, and frankly I'm tired of reading all the God references. I believe in God, I'm Catholic, but my religion doesn't rule or dictate my life.

I'm so very sorry for the ignorance being spouted on that thread. I am thankful however that there seems to be far more supportive statements than not.

I won't be posting over there because I'm positive I won't be pleasant and I really don't want to get banned. But do know that I'm fuming over some of the things that I've read.

 

[PHILCT]

After reading the Posts from the Community Board Thread,
even the gang at 100 Acres can not make its mind up over the fury.

---

Pooh would like to come out and is timid and scared.
He is afraid that the others will not understand,
and he fears that they will think this is some reactionary choice on his part.
He just always remembers having these feelings from when he was a cub.
He can not admit that he has this huge crush on Tigger.

Tigger does not have the same feelings as Pooh, but he would be an understanding friend.
Tigger continues to bounce around the issue.

Eyeore isn't concerned, he just wants everyone to listen to his problems.

Piglet has no idea, "What is Gay ? "

Rabbit has his principles, and doesn't think the 100 Acres is the place
for these kind of feelings. Rabbit is thinking Pooh is making a bad choice.
Rabbit will consult with the author of the novel.

---

Hope your Laughing !

Don't get me started on Looney Tunes, Is there a Board for that too ?

 

[Eeyoresfriend]

Just thought I'd have a little humor break. That thread is something else, but I won't let it upset me because when the time come I won't have to answer to them, I'll have to answer to God. I am a pretty decent person and try to lead the best life possible. I like to treat people with respect and not judge them. The whole judge a book by its cover thing, if everyone lived by that this world would be a much better place.

So here is a piece of humor that was posted on another board I read (predominately lesbian board )

Top Ten Things Heterosexuals Need to Know About Gay People

10. We didn't invent disco music so stop blaming us.

9. We're not sure about Ricky Martin either.

8. We also didn't invent the color black, but we are in complete agreement that you look better in it.

7. We are secretly glad Anne Heche is back on your team. She scares us.

6. Our so-called "gaydar" does not get us more cable stations or better reception.

5. We think your mini-vans are sooo cute!

4. David Crosby was not Melissa Etheridge's only choice.

3. If he's using two or more hair products at any one time -- yes, he is.

2. If she's won Wimbledon sixteen times, she is too.

And, the number one thing that heterosexuals need to know about gay people is...

1. Relax, we don't want you

I thought it was cute.

 

[bubie2.5]

Just thought I'd have a little humor break. That thread is something else, but I won't let it upset me because when the time come I won't have to answer to them, I'll have to answer to God. I am a pretty decent person and try to lead the best life possible. I like to treat people with respect and not judge them. The whole judge a book by its cover thing, if everyone lived by that this world would be a much better place.

So here is a piece of humor that was posted on another board I read (predominately lesbian board )

Top Ten Things Heterosexuals Need to Know About Gay People

10. We didn't invent disco music so stop blaming us.

9. We're not sure about Ricky Martin either.

8. We also didn't invent the color black, but we are in complete agreement that you look better in it.

7. We are secretly glad Anne Heche is back on your team. She scares us.

6. Our so-called "gaydar" does not get us more cable stations or better reception.

5. We think your mini-vans are sooo cute!

4. David Crosby was not Melissa Etheridge's only choice.

3. If he's using two or more hair products at any one time -- yes, he is.

2. If she's won Wimbledon sixteen times, she is too.

And, the number one thing that heterosexuals need to know about gay people is...

1. Relax, we don't want you

I thought it was cute.