those NOT vaccinating against H1N1 - tell me why

[MickeyMomTo2]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";34118073]One thing i have learned in all my years of being a L&D nurse is you never ever give advice to someone that is pregnant. [/QUOTE]

If you're talking about advice regarding how a pregnant woman should plan to nurse, or whether she should put her baby on a schedule, or something like that, I agree that pregnant women get more advice than they need.

However, neglecting to advise a pregnant woman about something that could save her life as well as her baby's life would be medically irresponsible. Every pregnant woman can make a decision that she believes is best for herself and her baby, but it is the job of the medical professionals to present the information to her and to give her advice.

 

[punkin]

Not to wade into the vaccination debate...I did not get to make the decision because there is no H1N1 vaccine available locally, plenty of seasonal flu vaccine though only DH got that (he's prone to pneumonia)

 

[monkeybug]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";34118073]No words put in your mouth....you posted it on your post see above....Scared is better than dead.....

One thing i have learned in all my years of being a L&D nurse is you never ever give advice to someone that is pregnant. Mostly when it comes to vaccines or any meds......I have ran across many woman that have had the flu during Pregnancy and the main thing that is worried about is Dehydration from Vomiting. In 90% of the cases that I have treated in the Hospital from the flu have been due to this.

And keep in mind that there are 100's of flu viruses every year. The vaccines only target the strain that they think will be the worst one. You can still get the seasonal flu shot and the H1N1 and still get a flu virus.

Again I will refer this person/poster back to her OB and let them decide what is a good call for her. That is who she needs to talk with about the complications of getting it or not getting it during her pregnancy.

Not us.[/QUOTE]

Never give advice to pregnant women??? Thank God my doctor and the wonderful nurses at both my children's delivery's gave me all sorts of wonderful advice! Out of the thousands of people who gave me advice when pregnant (come on! You know when you get pregnant even people you've never seen before in your life suddenly are giving you ALL sorts of advice) theirs is the advice I counted on the most during those first months!!
The number one concern with pregnant women is dehydration from vomiting??? Vomiting isn't even something commonly experienced with influenza!(it's possible, but not the norm)

 

[Deb in IA]

Where did I say that if she did not get the shot she would die??????

And if you can't then you are putting words in my mouth.

 

[surfergirl602]

OP here! I didn't think this thread would generate such a response! One posted that I should ask why people are getting it, but that seemed to be the only answers I was getting, so I decided to ask why NOT. I got lots of info, so thank you to everyone that contributed!!!

At my OB appt tomorrow I wanted to talk to my doc about the vaccine, and I wanted to have all my ducks in a row and go in with all the information I could find and not just "take his word for it", if you know what I mean.

I go to an Army base for my doctors, so many answers I get start with "because the Army says so... or because the Army regulates..." blah blah blah.

I like to no all ends of the spectrum before putting something in my body. I always thought that while pregnant your immune system was heightened, that's why pregnant women hardly ever get sick. I learned something new with this thread!

When pregnant, I never get sick, even though the rest of my family does. I always loved that fact!
Thanks again, everyone!

 

[mookie]

ALRIGHT KIDS! LET'S PLAY NICE.

So, I am back from the pedi. Reg. flu shot administered.

HOWEVER......

I did ask for their stance still on the h1n1. Their stance is still the same....they will not be giving out vaxes at their offices. And while they will refer patients to h1n1 clinics, they are not advising for/against the vaccine as a "blanket statement," rather, its up to each individual dr in the practice to talk with each of their patients on an individual, case-by-case basis to see if it is appropriate for them. Now, this was a nurse that I was speaking to....I didn't see our dr today. However, one thing she did say, was the same thing one of the drs said to me a few weeks ago...."We just don't know enough about it yet."

Also, one of my nurse friends? She's a peds nurse...and she also takes her kids to the practice. Her conversation with one of the drs. was the same, but a little more upfront, given they work together in the hospital. They were not going to give their kids the vax. They believe that the regular flu vax might just be enough to at least lesson some of the symptoms of h1n1 so that the complications don't arise. Yes, I know we are talking about 2 different strains....what I'm talking about is the symptoms that complicate h1n1...they are the same as regular flu. For someone in the medical practice to say that to me, speaks volumes. I don't care about Sasha and Malia Obama...if my own pediatrician isn't going to vax and normally does...a red flag is going up in my "mom head."

The main thing that was mentioned was this: the vaccines themselves ARE safe, and they ARE made the same way as all other vaxes. The concern, again, is how fast it had to be distributed to the masses: the multi-dose vials, not single administration. As my friend put it..."They have to preserve it somehow...."

 

["Got Disney"]

If you're talking about advice regarding how a pregnant woman should plan to nurse, or whether she should put her baby on a schedule, or something like that, I agree that pregnant women get more advice than they need.

However, neglecting to advise a pregnant woman about something that could save her life as well as her baby's life would be medically irresponsible. Every pregnant woman can make a decision that she believes is best for herself and her baby, but it is the job of the medical professionals to present the information to her and to give her advice.

It is only medically irresponsible if her OB does not tell her. It is not up to a Doc who may or may not be a Doc on this board to tell her not knowing a thing about her history or pregnancy.

Never give advice to pregnant women??? Thank God my doctor and the wonderful nurses at both my children's delivery's gave me all sorts of wonderful advice! Out of the thousands of people who gave me advice when pregnant (come on! You know when you get pregnant even people you've never seen before in your life suddenly are giving you ALL sorts of advice) theirs is the advice I counted on the most during those first months!!
The number one concern with pregnant women is dehydration from vomiting??? Vomiting isn't even something commonly experienced with influenza!(it's possible, but not the norm)

Yes YOUR Doc and nurses did...not a so called Doctor on a Disney Board. And as for vomiting with the flu....no the flu is UR(Upper Respiratory) but when Pregnant, the pressure on the diaphragm from the flu from lack of room due to everything being squished together can cause vomiting. This is a big concern not to mention dehydration from a high Temp.

And if you are just fine taking the advice of a person on the DIS(Disney board) claiming to be a Doctor, with your Pregnancy, if you were Pregnant, on vaccines, instead of your OB ....well that's up to you. But I can tell you that any OB Doc or nurse that i know would look at you like this but to each his own.

Still waiting for YOU to answer the question:



And if you can't then you are putting words in my mouth.

What question??? if it was you stating that at least she wont die if she gets the shot....i already have and posted your post.

 

["Got Disney"]

ALRIGHT KIDS! LET'S PLAY NICE.

So, I am back from the pedi. Reg. flu shot administered.

HOWEVER......

I did ask for their stance still on the h1n1. Their stance is still the same....they will not be giving out vaxes at their offices. And while they will refer patients to h1n1 clinics, they are not advising for/against the vaccine as a "blanket statement," rather, its up to each individual dr in the practice to talk with each of their patients on an individual, case-by-case basis to see if it is appropriate for them. Now, this was a nurse that I was speaking to....I didn't see our dr today. However, one thing she did say, was the same thing one of the drs said to me a few weeks ago...."We just don't know enough about it yet."

Also, one of my nurse friends? She's a peds nurse...and she also takes her kids to the practice. Her conversation with one of the drs. was the same, but a little more upfront, given they work together in the hospital. They were not going to give their kids the vax. They believe that the regular flu vax might just be enough to at least lesson some of the symptoms of h1n1 so that the complications don't arise. Yes, I know we are talking about 2 different strains....what I'm talking about is the symptoms that complicate h1n1...they are the same as regular flu. For someone in the medical practice to say that to me, speaks volumes. I don't care about Sasha and Malia Obama...if my own pediatrician isn't going to vax and normally does...a red flag is going up in my "mom head."

The main thing that was mentioned was this: the vaccines themselves ARE safe, and they ARE made the same way as all other vaxes. The concern, again, is how fast it had to be distributed to the masses: the multi-dose vials, not single administration. As my friend put it..."They have to preserve it somehow...."

This is what I am getting ...why because they know I am a nurse, have worked with me and can talk freely. And it always comes down to the same thing....they dont know enough about it yet. Is that a good enough reason not to get the vaccine...well that is up to the individual.

 

[ClareH37]

Interesting thread, as someone who is in the 'high risk' group and has had the normal seasonal flu vaccine for 20+ years (with no side effects), I am at this moment in time really not sure about the H1N1 vaccine.

Maybe I've been reading too many negative press reports but I just don't feel confident in this particular vaccine, particularly when you have government officials both in the US and in the UK saying things like "we have every reason to *believe* that it will be safe" and "I *think* most of the fears surrounding the vaccine are unfounded", it doesn't fill me with confidence.

I'd posted on another thread that I've been around people with H1N1 (unknowingly at the time) and I haven't caught it, maybe I've been lucky so far, but I normally pick up everything going due to my weak immune system, I'm putting it down to 20+ years of the normal flu vaccine (I know they say it doesn't offer full protection but the latest reports are now saying it is thought to offer some limited cross-protection).

 

[Geoff_M]

However, one thing she did say, was the same thing one of the drs said to me a few weeks ago...."We just don't know enough about it yet."

Those were interesting observations from those practices, but I'm struck by the use of "we" in those comments. To me it sounds like the "we" is referring to the local nurses and doctors, and not "we" as in the whole medical profession. In your descriptions, it sounds like they're in the same boat as a lot of parents and aren't up to speed on the whole H1N1 vaccine program or literature from the CDC.

 

[mookie]

Those were interesting observations from those practices, but I'm struck by the use of "we" in those comments. To me it sounds like the "we" is referring to the local nurses and doctors, and not "we" as in the whole medical profession. In your descriptions, it sounds like they're in the same boat as a lot of parents and aren't up to speed on the whole H1N1 vaccine program or literature from the CDC.

I do definitely see your point. IMO, it was a "CYA statement." But, I have known the drs and nurses in the practice for years, and it just doesn't add up to me that they wouldn't have researched and read up on this yet...they are usually on top of something like this.

 

[lukenick1]

The main thing that was mentioned was this: the vaccines themselves ARE safe, and they ARE made the same way as all other vaxes. The concern, again, is how fast it had to be distributed to the masses: the multi-dose vials, not single administration. As my friend put it..."They have to preserve it
somehow...."[/QUOTE]


The regular flu shot comes in multi-dose with thimerasol as well. So whats the difference???

 

[mookie]

The main thing that was mentioned was this: the vaccines themselves ARE safe, and they ARE made the same way as all other vaxes. The concern, again, is how fast it had to be distributed to the masses: the multi-dose vials, not single administration. As my friend put it..."They have to preserve it
somehow...."

The regular flu shot comes in multi-dose with thimerasol as well. So whats the difference???[/QUOTE]

Not multi dose, meaning, you have to get a booster....multi dose, meaning, they pull from the same (for lack of a better word) "vat" or large vial, to use for many admistrations.

 

[Deb in IA]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";34119218]

What question??? if it was you stating that at least she wont die if she gets the shot....i already have and posted your post.[/QUOTE]

OK, I'll make this as simple as I can.

I NEVER SAID THAT IF SHE DID NOT GET THE SHOT, SHE WOULD DIE.

 

[lukenick1]

The regular flu shot comes in multi-dose with thimerasol as well. So whats the difference???

Not multi dose, meaning, you have to get a booster....multi dose, meaning, they pull from the same (for lack of a better word) "vat" or large vial, to use for many admistrations.[/QUOTE]

Thats what I'm saying. They are not given in single dose syringes, they are taken from vials with thimerasol in it. So whats the difference if both the regular flu vaccine has thimerasol too? Why are people more concerned with H1N1 vaccine having thimerasol. Its the same thing.

 

["Got Disney"]

Those were interesting observations from those practices, but I'm struck by the use of "we" in those comments. To me it sounds like the "we" is referring to the local nurses and doctors, and not "we" as in the whole medical profession. In your descriptions, it sounds like they're in the same boat as a lot of parents and aren't up to speed on the whole H1N1 vaccine program or literature from the CDC.

So if the CDC said to you....go ahead...jump off the 9 story building....it will be okay, you will land on your feet....would you trust that 100% and jump...I am sure you would not. That is all we are stating here...is to think before you leap.

There is a lot of "I dont knows" from all around the fences....this to has to be taken into consideration as well as the "I feel it's safes".

The CDC is what it is the CDC and they are not fail safe by any means. I also have not come out ans said...it is 100% safe and I would bet my life on it....they themselves have stated that they are not sure at this time what course this flu will take...or that the vaccine is a 100% effective....or that more will die than will than the regular flu....they just dont know.....

and neither do you or I.

 

[mookie]

Not multi dose, meaning, you have to get a booster....multi dose, meaning, they pull from the same (for lack of a better word) "vat" or large vial, to use for many admistrations.

Thats what I'm saying. They are not given in single dose syringes, they are taken from vials with thimerasol in it. So whats the difference if both the regular flu vaccine has thimerasol too? Why are people more concerned with H1N1 vaccine having thimerasol. Its the same thing.[/QUOTE]

Because with the reg flu vax, you can at least REQUEST a thimerasol free vax. From my understanding, unless you get some of the "hard to get" prepackaged, single does vials, this is not the case.

 

[missypie]

Well, my county has a population of 1,750,000+ and at the end of the week they are having the first vaccination clinic to administer the 3000 doses they have...lol, not a big decision to make yet. (And not in a high risk group.)

I have autoimmune issues that make me react very violently to vaccinations, so I doubt that I'll be getting one for H1N1 either.

 

["Got Disney"]

OK, I'll make this as simple as I can.

I NEVER SAID THAT IF SHE DID NOT GET THE SHOT, SHE WOULD DIE.

No.... but you did say that getting the shot is better than dying.....hence if she does not get the shot she could die.

my point is that you as an M'D as you claim....should now better than to give anyone medical advice as you did on vaccines or any other medicine that are not your patients. You have no idea about their medical history.

You told her she needs to reconsider.....you said and i quote...

"And since you are pregnant, please reconsider your decision."

You should have just told her that yes you are getting it however you are not my patient and being that you are pregnant you need to talk to your OB about your options.

Being you are a Doctor...that for some comes with a lot of pull. So what you say many will take as "Well she's a Doctor so she must know whats good for me". Treating patients on a Disney board...and yes giving advice in this manner is the same as treating in a round about way....Mostly when you tell someone who is not sure about a treatment/vaccine to "Please reconsider your decision" ....it is unethical.

I am glad to read that she will be discussing this with her OB and taking it from there...instead of here.

Maybe instead of telling posters to get the vaccine and that it is safe...you should just tell them this is your opinion and they need to do their own research and talk with there own physician.

I have Epilepsy and DH has HEPC we are high on the list to get the vaccine.....telling someone like me that it is safe as 1, 2, 3 ....(my words not yours) without even a clue of my health history on a Disney board just rubs me the wrong way.

Guess that's because I have dealt with to many doctors mistakes for many many years.

 

[Feralpeg]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";34119902]No.... but you did say that getting the shot is better than dying.....hence if she does not get the shot she could die.

my point is that you as an M'D as you claim....should now better than to give anyone medical advice as you did on vaccines or any other medicine that are not your patients. You have no idea about their medical history.

You told her she needs to reconsider.....you said and i quote...

"And since you are pregnant, please reconsider your decision."

You should have just told her that yes you are getting it however you are not my patient and being that you are pregnant you need to talk to your OB about your options.

Being you are a Doctor...that for some comes with a lot of pull. So what you say many will take as "Well she's a Doctor so she must know whats good for me". Treating patients on a Disney board...and yes giving advice in this manner is the same as treating in a round about way....Mostly when you tell someone who is not sure about a treatment/vaccine to "Please reconsider your decision" ....it is unethical.

I am glad to read that she will be discussing this with her OB and taking it from there...instead of here.

Maybe instead of telling posters to get the vaccine and that it is safe...you should just tell them this is your opinion and they need to do their own research and talk with there own physician.

I have Epilepsy and DH has HEPC we are high on the list to get the vaccine.....telling someone like me that it is safe as 1, 2, 3 ....(my words not yours) without even a clue of my health history on a Disney board just rubs me the wrong way.

Guess that's because I have dealt with to many doctors mistakes for many many years.[/QUOTE]

Okay! Enough! You don't have to have the same opinions, but as medical professionals, this squabbling is beneath both of you! Deb is a doctor (I know this to be a fact). You are a L&D nurse. Stop questioning her credentials. I think the OP is smart enough to ask her OB his opinion and make up her own mind.

Sorry, but this type of arguing just hits a wrong nerve.