This just seems WRONG.... Update, NOT so wrong!!!

[becka]

I never said that knowing your basics was not important. In fact if you look at what I wrote I said that there is NOT enough emphasis on the basics and that is one reason why our students lag behind. My problem is with those who do not see any need for anything other than the basics. I am not proposing that we build "on sand". I firmly believe that kids do need the basics and they need to be drilled in them. However, I do not believe that we should only work on the basics even at young ages.

Teaching reasoning skills - NOT GUESSING - is important. I really do not understand why some insist on calling it guessing. Have you never made an estimate on something and then needed to revise your original numbers based on additional info or knowledge? Imagine we are working with 2nd graders trying to figure out what number is missing here: 3 + __ = 7. What we would want a 2nd grader to realize is that the missing number cannot be more than 7 because it is addition and addition makes numbers larger, etc.. Maybe their first thought is 3 well that makes 6. They know they need to get a larger number so they try 4 rather than 2 and it works. Did they actually solve an equation using algebraic methods? No. Did they guess? If you want to call it that but it was an educated guess and they used the results to go from there. Do you really not see any learning value in such a lesson?

I also did not state that everyone who disagrees with me must not be in a scientific field. I wondered (guessed ) if that was the way the discussion was breaking down. I also never said that scrapbooking was appropriate or a good thing. However, in ANY field you do need to be able to present ideas in a good way. A chemist's research paper may not be "scrapbook-y" but it helps if there is some organization and maybe some thought given to the layout and the appropriate use of graphics.

I am not a creative person by any stretch of the imagination. I hated art class and I hated those creative projects in school. I much preferred just the basics but I do realize looking back that I did learn from those projects and I think it has helped me to be able to present my ideas in a better fashion - with and without pictures.

 

[momm2four]

I teach 7th grade math, and I straddle the fence on the basic facts/"creative" projects debate. I think there must be some of each taught in any math classroom.

If a student isn't taught the basics through repetition and practice, then there is no foundation. If they aren't given projects later on to apply that skill, then their ability to connect that skill to real-life situations isn't developed. Giving them nothing to "hook" their mathematical knowledge to doesn't promote long term retention, IMO.

Case in point, I have taught how to find area of geometric shapes over this past year. Given a rectangle on a piece of paper, I'd bet that practically every student of mine could tell you how to find the area of that rectangle. However, yesterday I created a project where they had to pretend that we were going to repaint and carpet certain rooms on our hall.

As you know, to decide how much paint/carpet they must buy, they must find the area of each wall and the floor to find the total square footage. These kids had the hardest time applying head knowledge to an actual situation that required them to use known mathematical facts/formulas.

On a side note....please correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear America's students being compared to other countrys' students quite often, however I've heard from several sources that other countries don't test ALL their students like America does. The way I understand it, some other countries "track" their children and only test the ones who go on to higher education instead of a vocational track.

If I'm wrong,I apologize for "quoting" misinformation, but if it's correct, then it's hard to compare a country who only tests its highest students with a country like ours, which tests EVERYBODY, including non-English speaking students.

Oh, and grading a SS project for not being to scale is just silly. I think there are some teachers who are more concerned about seeing how stringent they can be with grades, instead of thinking about if the child actually understood the concept being taught.

Okay, enough from me. Hope everything works out for your son.
Lori P.

 

[declansdad]

There is one statement that I hear from students and its "What has this got to do with being a ______________?" Many students, and remember I am teaching adults, cannot or will not think outside the box. I swear to God that someday's it is like pulling teeth to get them to make a simple leap.

I think that part of the reason is that a large number of people were only exposed to learning through memorization and rote. They do not understand reasoning and problem solving. Schools still need to teach the basics but there is is more than one way to do that. Using the "old school methods" exclusively is not the way to go; neither is exclusively using one of the new methods. There has to be a happy medium.

 

[mickeyboat]

Know what? Think I'm getting too worked up. I'm being kinda mean. I'm sorry about that.

Yes, you are.

Sarcasm aside, you, your brother and I are not experts in educating young people. I will repeat the point of my post: the world is a whole lot different now than it was when we were children. I would hope that teaching methods would change to reflect the needs of today's society. We don't need people who can recite the encyclopedia, we need people who can think. Analytical reasoning and creativity are becoming so much more important, and teaching methods which incorporate those ideas may just foster a generation of people who can do things we could never imagine.

I think the struggle in education may come in finding the balance between laying a strong foundation of fact - which I still say is important - and developing thinking skills. I don't think expecting a science project to look like a scrapbook is finding the right balance. But I think encouraging a child to think beyond the facts will help them immensely in their educations and in their futures.

Denae

 

[sharbear]

I've only skimmed this thread. But I just wanted to make some comments. I have a DS who is a senior in HS. He still has not made a decision on where he wants to go to college next year (driving me and his father crazy BTW!). To help him decide on where to go, we have been making the rounds of admitted students day.

My DS wants to be an engineer and so I have been to more engineering open houses and know more about engineering departments than I ever want to know. I've listened to more engineering professors, talked to more students, saw more labs than anyone can imagine.

The one thing that stayed with me was the engineering professor that told us that if they (the prospective student) thought that they were going to be an engineer because they didn't want to write, they were sadly mistaken. That all engineers need to know how to write and communicate with their peers.

Every open house has a presentation that includes a power point. Even though a kid wants to be an engineer, they also need the skills to communicate and that include presentations. My kids have the basic knowledge in math and science, they also need to know how to write effectly and how to present knowledge in a manner that is concise and entertaining.