This just in from Disney Parks blog!

[OtherScott]

What it doesn't explain is why so many people fail to see that this is a Disney-positive initiative and not a guest-positive initiative.

Odd, isn't it.

Pretty soon everyone will quit going because it's too crowded.

 

[JimmyV]

If they spent $2B on rides. You'd have 2-3 new rides and wait times would decrease by MAYBE 5%. So a 30 minute wait would become 28.5 minutes.

Wow. Those would be 2-3 amazing rides. $2B is more than it cost to build any of the 4 existing parks, even adjusted for inflation.

 

[surferdave]

If they spent $2B on rides. You'd have 2-3 new rides and wait times would decrease by MAYBE 5%. So a 30 minute wait would become 28.5 minutes.

I thought Robo had a pretty good plan in post #4 of this thread that would have made great improvement on the worst situations without the side effect on the secondary attractions that we're seeing.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3231102

 

[morethananyonex]

If they spent $2B on rides. You'd have 2-3 new rides and wait times would decrease by MAYBE 5%. So a 30 minute wait would become 28.5 minutes.

Again, what is likely to draw in new guests? A new land or a new crowd control system?

You said,

That said, a lot of people have been saying that Disney has been stagnant and not keeping up with Universal and other. But really FP+ is truly innovative, and light years ahead of the competition. It has a lot of benefits to guests in the long run, even if it's difficult to see from the individual perspective.

So why does the average guest care that Disney has a new 2 billion dollar crowd management system vs a new land, or possibly even more? If the benefits are difficult to see from an individual perspective, why would an individual guest view MyMagic+ as an expansion in the same way that HP is, when the benefits of that type of expansion are very easy to see from the individual perspective?

 

[OtherScott]

If they spent $2B on rides. You'd have 2-3 new rides and wait times would decrease by MAYBE 5%. So a 30 minute wait would become 28.5 minutes.

Yeah, but you'd be able to walk onto a bunch of other rides that nobody else wanted to ride - which is the very foundation of economic success in the entertainment industry.

 

[clsteve]

If they spent $2B on rides. You'd have 2-3 new rides and wait times would decrease by MAYBE 5%. So a 30 minute wait would become 28.5 minutes.

2 billion will get you a lot more than 2 or 3 rides. We're talking whole lands with that size investment.

But, it isn't just about the additional ride capacity, it's also about distribution. We have two Parks grossly lacking headliners, causing tiering and an over-valuation of the secondary attractions. That is as big an issue in this.

 

[OtherScott]

I thought Robo had a pretty good plan in post #4 of this thread that would have made great improvement on the worst situations without the side effect on the secondary attractions that we're seeing.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3231102

So why wouldn't they?

Money is money, profit is profit. Right?

 

[over50visits]

If they spent $2B on rides. You'd have 2-3 new rides and wait times would decrease by MAYBE 5%. So a 30 minute wait would become 28.5 minutes.

If they spend $2B on rides we would have a entire fifth park, Star Wars, and Disney could not handle the increased guests! It would be a destination for people from around the world by itself.

Every time I look at my wristband and try to figure out how my time at WDW has improved, I wish for a new park and know it could have happened.

$2B for a wristband Disney uses to track me, fewer FPs, longer lines at rides that used to be walk-ons, no turnstiles. Sheesh.

 

[Reddog1134]

So why does the average guest care that Disney has a new 2 billion dollar crowd management system vs a new land, or possibly even more? If the benefits are difficult to see from an individual perspective, why would an individual guest view MyMagic+ as an expansion in the same way that HP is, when the benefits of that type of expansion are very easy to see from the individual perspective?

The average guest wouldn't care. The average guest also probably doesn't care that they built a new Ferry Boat dock. But that new dock DOES benefit them.

There's no doubt in my mind that if you ask someone, "would you rather see Disney build a new ride or restructure their parking lot" nearly 100% of the people would say "new ride". But that doesn't mean restructuring their parking lot wouldn't benefit guests in a way they may not see.

 

[JimmyV]

Odd, isn't it.

Pretty soon everyone will quit going because it's too crowded.

It won't be crowd levels that dictate attendance drop offs, but enjoyment levels. There is a connection between the two, but it is more linked to "value" than anything else. The argument that Disney has always been and always will be packed is illusory. We can all imagine things that Disney could do to make people stop going. I'm talking about really Draconian things that make it downright unpleasant to return there. Of course, they haven't done those things yet. But we just put that out there as one of the guide posts. So somewhere between where they are at now and where that Draconian post is placed lies the breaking point for people whereby they will stop going. The Dodgers will never leave Brooklyn. Until they do. This idea that "Disney will always be Disney and nothing that it does will lessen people's enthusiasm for it" is a deadly corporate strategy.

My own personal anecdotal tales mean nothing in the abstract, but for what they are worth, the vast majority of families that I know who have gone to WDW for the first time in the past 3 years were not won over to be lifetime guests. They were universally (pun intended) equally impressed with US and more likely to return there. None of them were bitten by the Disney bug. And none of them are in the "I can't wait to go back" crowd. What gets lost in all of this discussion is that we on this board are veterans who know the workarounds. We have no appreciation for just what is happening to first time guests. Kevin discussed this on the podcast recently. The recent changes can be overwhelming to first time visitors and that is something that we here simply cannot fully appreciate. "You mean I was supposed to book my ride on TSM in advance? I didn't know that. And now my kids can't go on it. This sucks." It can happen.

 

[WillAustin]

I fully expect there to eventually be a difference in - at least - the allotted FP+ slots for resort & non-resort guests.

They could even do that day-of behind the scenes and we'd never know...

 

[jade1]

Our idea of success is to get more FPs than the typical guest.

So "atypical" success

Yes, the law of large numbers, plus the inability of people to understand that their atypical experience was just that, pretty much guarantees that people will brag about what they were able to achieve and that all the complainers are wrong and irrational.

 

[JimmyV]

So "atypical" success

Ahhh. But the first "atypical" was the result of planning and effort. The second "atypical" was the result of luck. Therein lies the difference and it is huge. My income is atypical. I appreciate that. So is the guy's who won Powerball. Two different types of typicality.

 

[morethananyonex]

The average guest wouldn't care. The average guest also probably doesn't care that they built a new Ferry Boat dock. But that new dock DOES benefit them.

There's no doubt in my mind that if you ask someone, "would you rather see Disney build a new ride or restructure their parking lot" nearly 100% of the people would say "new ride". But that doesn't mean restructuring their parking lot wouldn't benefit guests in a way they may not see.

Yes, true, but when you're discussing people's opinions that Disney has become stagnant compared to Universal, does a new boat dock, parking lot, or any in the background type benefit that benefits guests really matter?

What matters to the guests as a whole are the attractions. Building new ones draws them in. Crowd management systems do not, or am I missing news worthy crowds like at the opening of HP when MyMagic started?

 

[Reddog1134]

What matters to the guests as a whole are the attractions. Building new ones draws them in. Crowd management systems do not, or am I missing news worthy crowds like at the opening of HP when MyMagic started?

Also true, but everyone seems to be under the impression that Disney has decided to stop building attractions forever and will solely build infrastructure for the parks.

Yes, they could have spent that $1B+ on attractions but they decided to use it in another way that they believe will improve the park. It doesn't mean they stopped building attractions all together.

 

[jade1]

Ahhh. But the first "atypical" was the result of planning and effort. The second "atypical" was the result of luck. Therein lies the difference and it is huge. My income is atypical. I appreciate that. So is the guy's who won Powerball. Two different types of typicality.

Disney went with benefitting all guests, not just the atypical guest. On the back end the atypical guest can still use planning and effort to surpass the typical guest-just not as dramatically.

 

[sethschroeder]

Yes, true, but when you're discussing people's opinions that Disney has become stagnant compared to Universal, does a new boat dock, parking lot, or any in the background type benefit that benefits guests really matter?

What matters to the guests as a whole are the attractions. Building new ones draws them in. Crowd management systems do not, or am I missing news worthy crowds like at the opening of HP when MyMagic started?

People are complaining about over crowding in parks already... Could you imagine 4 more rides at MK that draw 10% higher crowds? Look at Christmas and fit 10% more people on main street.

Universal does not have close to the attendance of Disney and Disney has different issues. While Universal needs more people at the park Disney needs to get more money from the people already at the parks.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

Yes, true, but when you're discussing people's opinions that Disney has become stagnant compared to Universal, does a new boat dock, parking lot, or any in the background type benefit that benefits guests really matter?

What matters to the guests as a whole are the attractions. Building new ones draws them in. Crowd management systems do not, or am I missing news worthy crowds like at the opening of HP when MyMagic started?

I've never heard anyone say "Wow, our vacation was amazing thanks to a beautiful new boat dock."

 

[JimmyV]

The average guest wouldn't care. The average guest also probably doesn't care that they built a new Ferry Boat dock. But that new dock DOES benefit them.

There's no doubt in my mind that if you ask someone, "would you rather see Disney build a new ride or restructure their parking lot" nearly 100% of the people would say "new ride". But that doesn't mean restructuring their parking lot wouldn't benefit guests in a way they may not see.

It shouldn't have to be "either/or". I think that we toss around the $2B number as if it has no meaning. Stop and think about that number for a moment:

$2,000,000,000.00

And all behinds the scenes. And all in lieu of spending in other areas. All while Epcot has empty pavilions and empty restaurants and DHS dies on the vine. Wasn't the original estimate for this phase of NextGen supposed to be $500M? Does it really take $2,000,000,000.00 to move some people out of the Space Mountain line and push them into the PoTC line? Without debating the efficacy of NextGen and FP+, the efficiency is easy to debate. I think that there would be a lot less teeth gnashing if FP+ had been part of a $500M initiative that was coupled with the construction of a Star Wars land and Cars Land, both of which could have been built with the leftover $1.5B. With still some money leftover for a boat dock and paved parking lot.

 

[jade1]

If they spend $2B on rides we would have a entire fifth park, Star Wars, and Disney could not handle the increased guests! It would be a destination for people from around the world by itself.

Every time I look at my wristband and try to figure out how my time at WDW has improved, I wish for a new park and know it could have happened.

$2B for a wristband Disney uses to track me, fewer FPs, longer lines at rides that used to be walk-ons, no turnstiles. Sheesh.

Who says they still wont?