This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[mom2rtk]

Seems pretty clear to me.

Crystal clear.

 

[kaytieeldr]

And some here seem to think that means he let her go and walked away.

No. I don't understand how you're inferring that from anything that's been posted.

I don't know if Lane's parents asked for a fence. I got the feeling at the time that was Disney's solution at the time. Which is my point, Disney made a change without being prompted and RCCL is twiddling their thumbs. IIRC, the parents of Chloe didn't make any suggestions until their interview which was a full two weeks after death.

There's nothing that needs to be changed on Freedom of the Seas, or probably any cruise ship. It. was. an. accident. A devastating one for sure.

At least one person mentioned screens. A screen didn't help Conor Clapton.

 

[kaytieeldr]

And some here seem to think that means he let her go and walked away.

No. I don't understand how you're inferring that from anything that's been posted.

I don't know if Lane's parents asked for a fence. I got the feeling at the time that was Disney's solution at the time. Which is my point, Disney made a change without being prompted and RCCL is twiddling their thumbs. IIRC, the parents of Chloe didn't make any suggestions until their interview which was a full two weeks after death.

There's nothing that needs to be changed on Freedom of the Seas, or probably any cruise ship. It. was. an. accident. A devastating one for sure.

At least one person mentioned screens. A screen didn't help Conor Clapton.

 

[kaytieeldr]

There is a huge difference between the two situations.
I believe Disney was at fault, I would have found against them if I was on the jury.
I dont think they made those changes just as a PR exercise.

Well, you can't sue Mother Nature. Disney made changes - ropes, signage - immediately after its first-ever alligator fatality. Alligators are inherent to Florida waters, visitors can reasonably be expected not to know this, it makes sense to make the changes Disney made as quickly as they did.

Person overboard is much more common than Disney alligator attacks, yet no cruise line has seen the need to redesign or reconfigure anything.

 

[mummabear]

Well, you can't sue Mother Nature. Disney made changes - ropes, signage - immediately after its first-ever alligator fatality. Alligators are inherent to Florida waters, visitors can reasonably be expected not to know this, it makes sense to make the changes Disney made as quickly as they did.

Person overboard is much more common than Disney alligator attacks, yet no cruise line has seen the need to redesign or reconfigure anything.

This was discussed on here at length at the time of the incident.
International visitors (as so many are at WDW) are not reasonably aware that there are alligators in a man made lake.
A man made lake where swimming used to be advertised, where children are taken on boat trips and where they run movie nights in the evening on the shore.
In Australia where crocs and sharks are common, beaches etc. have warnings signs for this reason.

I think a big difference here, is that not everywhere has alligators...but everywhere does have gravity

 

[luvsJack]

And that perception comes from where they are saying it happened.
It did not happen here:
View attachment 419714
It happened here:
View attachment 419715

See the difference that spin on it makes.


Because she asked to go on they were not hounding her paparazzi style. It is called journalism, and they have a responsibility to be unbiased and present the whole story.



I dont think anyone on here (or anywhere else) doesnt feel incredible sympathy for the family. It is a horrific situation.



I assume you are again aiming this at me, I am in no way making things sound worse, we are discussing scenarios.
Things that could have happened and things we know didnt happen (I.e she didnt run from the pool area and get herself out the window)


But we do know what we need to know, he put her there. Why he did it isnt particularly relevent.



They dont have to be hard hitting, but you can't ask to go on TV, to lay blame elsewhere while using your grief as a shield from questions about the GFs role in it.



Because those are the words used in the statement from the police, should we just ignore what is said by the people investigating the incident?


That's right, and in thay moment he admitted his guilt.



There is a huge difference between the two situations.
I believe Disney was at fault, I would have found against them if I was on the jury.
I dont think they made those changes just as a PR exercise.

The same authorities that called it a dining area. So do we only latch on to half of what they said?

There is a difference in the alligator incident and this one. Where I see the similarities is that people right here on this board blamed only the parents. Never even considered that Disney could be at fault and didn’t want any changes to come due to the incident. Not saying I believe the cruise line is as much at fault as I believe Disney was, just comparing what is said.

 

[mummabear]

The same authorities that called it a dining area. So do we only latch on to half of what they said?

There is a difference in the alligator incident and this one. Where I see the similarities is that people right here on this board blamed only the parents. Never even considered that Disney could be at fault and didn’t want any changes to come due to the incident. Not saying I believe the cruise line is as much at fault as I believe Disney was, just comparing what is said.

And other posters who have been on the ship have described it as such as well, correct?
Is isnt an entirely correct description but it's not entirely incorrect either.

The discussion on the alligator incident was pretty 50/50 finding either the parents at fault or Disney.

 

[olafLover]

.

 

[luvsJack]

And other posters who have been on the ship have described it as such as well, correct?
Is isnt an entirely correct description but it's not entirely incorrect either.

The discussion on the alligator incident was pretty 50/50 finding either the parents at fault or Disney.

One person said they ordered food and ate in that area. That does not a “dining area” make. Another said it was as much a dining area as it is a kid’s area. It is a pool deck, no? There is apparently a place to get food on that deck and there is a place for kid’s to play on that deck as well as a pool or two, a lazy river and other stuff. Why defend one wrong description and blast another?

I didn’t count how many blamed Disney and how many didn’t as there was numerous threads about it over the boards. But that’s not really the point.

 

[msjprincess]

I've been on that ship once and a sister ship twice. I wouldn't call it a dining area or a kids play area. Yes, I'vegone inside to the Windjammer and brought out food to eat while sitting at one of those tables. But I don't think that makes it a dining area.

 

[ENJDisneyFan]

The discussion on the alligator incident was pretty 50/50 finding either the parents at fault or Disney.

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but in regard to the alligator incident I don't find either at fault. IMO it was a freak accident and there is truly no one to blame.

 

[nkereina]

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but in regard to the alligator incident I don't find either at fault. IMO it was a freak accident and there is truly no one to blame.

Agreed. Should the parents have not let a child go ankle deep in water where signs were posted? Maybe. Should Disney have had better signs or physical barricades knowing alligators reside in the waters? Maybe. But hindsight is 20/20. Same goes for this incident. Blame can be tossed back and forth, but sometimes there's just no one at fault. Unless there was something truly negligible or egregious on the part of the cruise line (there wasn't), then it really was just a horrible accident.

 

[sam_gordon]

Agreed. Should the parents have not let a child go ankle deep in water where signs were posted? Maybe. Should Disney have had better signs or physical barricades knowing alligators reside in the waters? Maybe. But hindsight is 20/20. Same goes for this incident. Blame can be tossed back and forth, but sometimes there's just no one at fault. Unless there was something truly negligible or egregious on the part of the cruise line (there wasn't), then it really was just a horrible accident.

Depending on the actual actions of the GF, he may actually be "at fault". The video footage may show that. Or it may show a "perfect storm" of events that he couldn't stop. I still don't see any way the cruise line is to blame (based on the information we have at this time).

 

[ronandannette]

I can't find where, but there was a response by RCCL where they stated they left a special team with the family to help them deal with everything (after the ship left). So they didn't only send best wishes, they also provided the family with practical help

Of course they did. Deaths, serious injuries and illnesses are not uncommon on a cruise ship (at roughly the same rate as any other gathering of 4,000 people). They have protocols and dedicated staff for practically every emergency situation imaginable.

I've been on that ship once and a sister ship twice. I wouldn't call it a dining area or a kids play area. Yes, I've went inside to the Windjammer and brought out food to eat while sitting at one of those tables. But I don't think that makes it a dining area.

I agree, nobody really thinks of the pool deck as an actual “dining area” any more than they think of the space where the tables and chairs are as a “kid’s play area”. If I recollect correctly, one of the designated smoking stations is actually in that space (on one side or the other) and that really mitigates against both eating and kids playing. I wish they had just accurately described it as the pool deck from the beginning. It would have circumvented a lot of controversy.

 

[nkereina]

Depending on the actual actions of the GF, he may actually be "at fault". The video footage may show that. Or it may show a "perfect storm" of events that he couldn't stop. I still don't see any way the cruise line is to blame (based on the information we have at this time).

I 100% agree the cruise line isn't to blame. I guess one could argue the grandfather as at fault regardless for putting her on the railing where she didn't belong. But if its true he didn't realize the window was open, it was truly an innocent freak accident that he didn't see coming.

 

[msjprincess]

Of course they did. Deaths, serious injuries and illnesses are not uncommon on a cruise ship (at roughly the same rate as any other gathering of 4,000 people). They have protocols and dedicated staff for practically every emergency situation imaginable.

I agree, nobody really thinks of the pool deck as an actual “dining area” any more than they think of the space where the tables and chairs are as a “kid’s play area”. If I recollect correctly, one of the designated smoking stations is actually in that space (on one side or the other) and that really mitigates against both eating and kids playing. I wish they had just accurately described it as the pool deck from the beginning. It would have circumvented a lot of controversy.

Yes, the whole port side of the pool deck is a smoking section.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I am passing no judgement on this incident but I don't understand people who ignore warnings....just like the stupid people that ignore warnings on rocky coasts to get pics and then get swept away when a wave comes along or the people that ignore fences around animals at zoos to get a pic. Every danger in life should not have to be spelled out.....like my waffle maker directions that state "do not use while bathing".

MJ

Agreed! And I also think a lot of things should be common sense even without a warning.

But just musing over the bolded, I think it's almost a boomerang effect. - There are so many warnings they're legally obligated to provide now, that instead of a large print sign saying "keep off the railings" that everyone sees, there is a lengthy instruction agreement that everyone is given, but few take the time to pull out their reading glasses and comb through.

I think sometimes the fewer rules you have, the more people follow them.

 

[Floridaman999]

I was gonna eat that silica packet cause it looked so yummy. Thank heavens they put a warning label on it to stop me from doing it.

 

[luvsJack]

No. I don't understand how you're inferring that from anything that's been posted.

There's nothing that needs to be changed on Freedom of the Seas, or probably any cruise ship. It. was. an. accident. A devastating one for sure.

At least one person mentioned screens. A screen didn't help Conor Clapton.

Someone posted that perhaps he let go of her to take her picture sitting on the rail. That would have required him to let go and step away.

"nothing needs to be changed" is the exact same thing that many were saying after the alligator incident at Disney. Maybe we should let the cruise line and the lawyers figure that one out.

 

[Searc]

Someone posted that perhaps he let go of her to take her picture sitting on the rail. That would have required him to let go and step away.

"nothing needs to be changed" is the exact same thing that many were saying after the alligator incident at Disney. Maybe we should let the cruise line and the lawyers figure that one out.

You can't possibly legislate every single stupid person in the world. It is not going to happen. I'm sick of people pandering to the lowest common denominator.