This happened in America?

[discernment]

Pay attention - it's not just liberals displeased with Bush.

I agree. Count me as a conservative that is not 100% pleased with Bush.

But this situation would have happened regardless of which President was in office or political party in charge.

The left wing nuts at dailykos blame Bush for everything that happens in this country. That is what I take exception to.

 

[MzDiz]

You know, I'm sorry that I posted the link from where I did. I read the story from several sources before I posted that one, but I felt that it illustrated MY personal feelings about the situation best. After all, I had to listen to the culture of life drivel as much as the next person. Where were the pro-lifers on this one? Could they have stopped picketing a Planned Parenthood for an afternoon to help this woman a little? Honestly, I didn't want to see this thread turn into a grudge match. Let's pretend I posted it from another source. The point is - they pulled the plug on a responsive woman and let her die against her wishes. Regardless of why, this is wrong. Simply wrong.

 

[cardaway]

Where were the pro-lifers on this one? Could they have stopped picketing a Planned Parenthood for an afternoon to help this woman a little?

You didn't believe the term pro-life really meant pro-life did you?

 

[Charade]

There is absolutely no excuse for that. In my eyes that is murder.

Did you read the article linked in the OP's message or the parts I quoted?

It said that 12 other facilities DECLINED to accept her AND the hospital offered to pay for an immigration lawyer but the family said the process was too lengthy.

So there are a lot of people complaisant in her "murder". And I'd bet that not all of them were Republicans.

 

[CapeCodTenor]

So there are a lot of people complaisant in her "murder". And I'd bet that not all of them were Republicans.

I'm wondering where were the rich liberal dems? Surely someone from Hollywood could have stepped up to the plate and helped pay for some of it.

 

[DawnCt1]

You shouldn't have to be one of the few rich people who can independently afford Blue Cross for a lifetime to be given air until your body gives out. Suffocating is a horrible way to die.

.

DH's cousin was well insured. He had a stroke that left him fully conscious but required a ventilator. They had difficulty weaning him from the vent so pursued a full diagnostic work up to see if there were any other issues. It was determined that he had metastatic adrenal cancer that was inoperable. (had only mild belly pain pre stroke). He was facing a imminently term nal cancer (3 months) complicated by being ventilator dependent. His team of physicians met with the family and recommended removal of the vent. He was well sedated, did not "suffocate" in a manner that would have resulted in him being uncomfortable and he quietly passed away. It happens every day in every hospital in America. It is often the best and most humane treatment for the patient.

 

[MzDiz]

Can this not be an opportunity to politically bash people? I don't care who didn't step up, be it republicans or democrats or aliens or one-toothed vermicious kenids. It doesn't matter if it was Pat Robertson that wasn't there to squint creepily and pray over her or Richard Gere wasn't there to gong bells over her head, the point is that it happened and it wasn't her choice.

 

[DawnCt1]

I read both articles. They let that lady suffocate to save money because she couldn't afford health insurance. Did you read the articles?

The lady died because she was terminally ill with an incurable cancer for which there was no further treatment. Do you honestly believe, in your wildest imaginings, that if we had a single payer government plan, that she would have been kept alive even 10 days? Health care will be rationed. There are finite dollars for infinate problems. In most countries that have socialized medicine, dialysis is not available to diabetics after the age of 55. They are not eligible for organ transplants, and hip replacement surgery for an 80 year old could take a year. That means that an elderly person, who was otherwise vital could literally spend the rest of their life in a wheel chair or die waiting for something that we do within days. The dollars go to those who have the best chance of recovery. Most Medicare dollars are spent in the last 45 days of life. Believe me, under a single payer plan, it will be cut to the last ( fill in a much smaller number) days of life.

 

[sha_lyn]

Great post DawnCT..... Funny how everyone goes right past the part that the woman had terminal cancer and was dying. The family wouldn't let her go but wouldn't/couldn't pay the bills.

 

[DawnCt1]

There is absolutely no excuse for that. In my eyes that is murder. And just for the record.. it was mentioned on the news here, but not much.

It wasn't murder. She was a terminally ill woman with absolutely no hope of recovery who could not survive without extreme measures of care, complicated equipment and she was provided with end of life care.

 

[Charade]

, the point is that it happened and it wasn't her choice.

What is your solution? Detailed as much as possible.

 

[Disney Doll]

George Bush will meet his judgement. The Republicans are trying to make health savings accounts the norm, meaning only the wealthy and the healthy will be able to afford health care and insurance, so what happened to this lady could happen to anyone with a run of bad luck and a terminal illness, well, anyone unlucky enough to live in Texas. You shouldn't have to be rich to be treated compassionately. God bless that poor woman who just wanted her mother by her side and struggled to breath for 15 minutes.

As a nurse in an inner-city hopital, I can tell you from first-hand experience that most of our patients are not wealthy or insured and they all receive care. And their ethnicity has nothing to do with it. If anything, ethnicity helps because most of the patients or their families are very well-versed in their rights and have no problem playing the race or ethnicity card when necessary.

I can speculate on a few things:
1. The article the OP cited did not contain all the facts of the issue, as evidenced by additional information provided by other posters.
2. It would be highly irregular for a hospital to take someone off a ventilator and let them suffocate for 15 minutes without any sort of sedative medication to make that process comfortable and not harrowing.
3. I won't get into a left wing/right wing nut debate, but keep in mind that there are always 3 sides to every story...yours, mine and the truth. This publication has liberal leanings, and that is fine. But if they do not present the full story and all the facts, then they are doing their readers an disservice. And I feel the same way about publications that have conservative leanings too. The rules are not different for either side of the fence. That is why I try to read a multitude of publications, all with different "slants" because I think it gives a truer overall picture of the issues.

In any event, peace to this young lady's soul and to her family.

 

[DawnCt1]

Can this not be an opportunity to politically bash people? I don't care who didn't step up, be it republicans or democrats or aliens or one-toothed vermicious kenids. It doesn't matter if it was Pat Robertson that wasn't there to squint creepily and pray over her or Richard Gere wasn't there to gong bells over her head, the point is that it happened and it wasn't her choice.

What exactly was there to step up to? Do you think that hospitals have an unlimited supply of ICU beds and ventilators. How would you feel if a trauma injury patient, a father of 4 was turned away because the vent or the bed weren't available while a terminally ill woman with no hope of recovery occupied that bed? Is that a good use of resources?

 

[Disney Doll]

I'm wondering where were the rich liberal dems? Surely someone from Hollywood could have stepped up to the plate and helped pay for some of it.

Interesting point.

 

[Disney Doll]

The lady died because she was terminally ill with an incurable cancer for which there was no further treatment. Do you honestly believe, in your wildest imaginings, that if we had a single payer government plan, that she would have been kept alive even 10 days? Health care will be rationed. There are finite dollars for infinate problems. In most countries that have socialized medicine, dialysis is not available to diabetics after the age of 55. They are not eligible for organ transplants, and hip replacement surgery for an 80 year old could take a year. That means that an elderly person, who was otherwise vital could literally spend the rest of their life in a wheel chair or die waiting for something that we do within days. The dollars go to those who have the best chance of recovery. Most Medicare dollars are spent in the last 45 days of life. Believe me, under a single payer plan, it will be cut to the last ( fill in a much smaller number) days of life.

Another interesting point.

 

[Huggles]

As an 'outsider' I can appreciate arguments from both sides. It is the manner of the lady's passing that upsets me. I can only hope that the medical staff were kind enough to sedate the lady before she was removed from the ventilator.
Some time ago an anaesthetist fouled up and injected me with a muscle relaxant (in error) but didn't realise and made no attempt to put me on a ventilator. I was fully conscious and paralysed. My brain was telling my lungs to breathe but nothing was happening. As time went on ( it was forever) my brain was SCREAMING these messages to my body but it couldn't respond. I heard all the alarms go off and the panic ensuing before everything went quiet for me.
I hope this lady wasn't aware as she suffocated as it is the most appalling way to go.

 

[DawnCt1]

As an 'outsider' I can appreciate arguments from both sides. It is the manner of the lady's passing that upsets me. I can only hope that the medical staff were kind enough to sedate the lady before she was removed from the ventilator.
Some time ago an anaesthetist fouled up and injected me with a muscle relaxant (in error) but didn't realise and made no attempt to put me on a ventilator. I was fully conscious and paralysed. My brain was telling my lungs to breathe but nothing was happening. As time went on ( it was forever) my brain was SCREAMING these messages to my body but it couldn't respond. I heard all the alarms go off and the panic ensuing before everything went quiet for me.
I hope this lady wasn't aware as she suffocated as it is the most appalling way to go.

The standard of care, practiced everywhere, is sedation. We stood by DH's cousin's bed as he was passing. It was extremely peaceful.

 

[MzDiz]

What is your solution? Detailed as much as possible.

Uhhh, shucks, details is hard.

Let's see, solution - like, as in, if I were god, or something? I'd made sure assisted suicide was legal so that people could die when and how they wanted. That would free up enough money to at least buy a plane ticket from Africa so that woman could have had her dying wish.
In a real world sense? I'd do nothing but sit here and wallow in my opinions, since all I can do it write letters to Washington and wait for a few key politicians to die (with dignity of natural causes, of course) so we can get on with fixing the government.

(if you can't take that for what it is, tongue in cheek, I can't supply you with anymore "details" and you'll have to work it out on your own)

 

[Charade]

The lady died because she was terminally ill with an incurable cancer for which there was no further treatment. Do you honestly believe, in your wildest imaginings, that if we had a single payer government plan, that she would have been kept alive even 10 days? Health care will be rationed. There are finite dollars for infinate problems. In most countries that have socialized medicine, dialysis is not available to diabetics after the age of 55. They are not eligible for organ transplants, and hip replacement surgery for an 80 year old could take a year. That means that an elderly person, who was otherwise vital could literally spend the rest of their life in a wheel chair or die waiting for something that we do within days. The dollars go to those who have the best chance of recovery. Most Medicare dollars are spent in the last 45 days of life. Believe me, under a single payer plan, it will be cut to the last ( fill in a much smaller number) days of life.

I believe that the people who want a universal healthcare system want the quality and availability of care to be equal for everyone. We don't even have than now and look how much it costs. Adding 40+ million more people will only increase the cost (to the people who pay for the coverage because we know that not all will be able to pay their share of the costs) or reduce the quality/availability. I wonder which they prefer.

 

[Geoff_M]

Perhaps lost in the "Republicans-like-to-kill-poor-people-and-even-more-so-if-they-are-minorities" meme is this thought: In countries that have the sort of nationalized health schemes that critics of the US system often point to as the "solution", would such a terminal end-of-life patient receive indefinite high-end care?