This happened in America?

[chobie]

For starters it wasn't that simple. Those against "pulling the plug" on Ms. Schiavo felt (though mis-guidedly):
1) She wasn't in a persistent vegatative state.
2) She was periodically responsive and might improve with time.
3) Her husband perhaps was trying to cover up abuse committed against her.
In order to be analagous, the family of the patient in the OP's link would have to believe that the woman didn't have end-stage cancer and/or was likely "cureable".

How did that autopsy turn out?

 

[Charade]

People can claim all they want that "this isn't partisan" , just economics, blah, blah, blah, but the fact is W's state - Texas - with laws created while he was in office allowed this to happen AND , not only that, his hypocritical administration STILL had the balls to use Terri S. for political gain.

Culure of Life? BS. Culture of stuff our pockets with as much cash as possible and manipulate the Bible thumpers into thinking that we support their agenda is more like it.

So how much of your earnings are you willing to contribute to pay for universal healthcare so this won't ever happen again? 5 percent? 10 percent? 20 percent? Compare that to what you pay now and then think of the coverage you'll get if a universal healthcare system were in place.

 

[Charade]

How did that autopsy turn out?

Hmm.. perhaps you missed he said misguidedly.

 

[damo]

But there are also a lot of services that are faster here in Ontario than what I have read here on the Disboards that some people experience. An example: On December 17th my teacher friend had her annual mammogram which had been issued by her doctor the day before as routine. The next day she got a call that there was a suspicious area. On December 20 she had a needle bioposy which confirmed a 3mm cancerous tumour. On December 23 she had it surgically removed.

Another example is my MIL having heart valve replacement within a few weeks of it being scheduled. My father had skin cancer removed from his nose within a week of it being scheduled. My friend's neighbour whose 3 year old was picked up at her house by an ambulance in the middle of the night to transfer her to Sick Kids hospital when her blood tests came in from her appointment that day and showed that she had leukemia. The list goes on.

The system isn't as bad as some people want to think. It is far from perfect but it never will be.

 

[Chuck S]

So how much of your earnings are you willing to contribute to pay for universal healthcare so this won't ever happen again? 5 percent? 10 percent? 20 percent? Compare that to what you pay now and then think of the coverage you'll get if a universal healthcare system were in place.

Hmmm...maybe about as much as we're paying to "free" Iraq. If the budget can handle that, it should be able to handle health care.

 

[chobie]

So how much of your earnings are you willing to contribute to pay for universal healthcare so this won't ever happen again? 5 percent? 10 percent? 20 percent? Compare that to what you pay now and then think of the coverage you'll get if a universal healthcare system were in place.

My family pays 20% of our take home for our share of the premiums for an HMO. I would pay that much for a universal healthcare system.

 

[DawnCt1]

How did that autopsy turn out?

That many years out from the initial injury/incident it would be impossible to determine if he had a hand in her situation.

 

[chobie]

That many years out from the initial injury/incident it would be impossible to determine if he had a hand in her situation.

In other words, he was innocent.

 

[Charade]

What color is the sky in your world?

American physicans generally travel extensively - yes, on cruises too. Being a nurse and having worked with many, many physicians I know this to be a fact. They have wonderful vacactions - foreign, exotic, leisurely. Who treats their patients? The other docs in the practice, docs who trade call with other practices, and in one case NO ONE AT ALL (his patients were told to go to the ER if they had a problem).

Maybe the government should force them to put that excess money back into the system so more people could have (or have better) healthcare.

 

[dennis99ss]

Its ok to kill sopmeone because they do not have money. It is ok to play GOD, with this lady's life. But, it was not ok to play GOD with T. Schiavo's life? It is OK to play GOD as executioner, but not ok for abortions?

What hypocrits you are. Dawn sits their and says that this case is different, that this lady was going to die. Until you are appointed supreme being, you don't know that. You don't know if dh cousin was going to die. You were told that, but, you don't know it.

What gives you, or anybody, the right to take a life. You are all in favor of letting this lady die, but not Schiavo. Believe what you want, killing is killing, and if you support one, you should support the other. Are you outraged at the doctors in New Orleans, who have allegations of this same thing made against them? Are you outraged at every execution?

To those who try to make up a difference between these two ladies, you are so full of it. On one hand, you have a lady who is still alive, conscious, and is aware of her surroundings. On the other, you have a lady who may be brain dead. So, the brain dead white lady with some $$ deserves to live, while the conscious, terminal ill lady, who is poor and black, deserves to die, because you pull the plug, not becaue the life ended naturally.

 

[Aidensmom]

I think it is very sad this woman had terminal cancer. I think it is very sad that she was unable to get her dying wish. But I think it is the article that is trying to turn in into a political, and even racial issue, when it is not.

I really fail to see how this is a political issue. The issues of health insurance affordability run a lot deeper than some Republicans sitting around deciding who they want to have insurance. And it is not usually the POOR that are uninsured - they are eligible for medicaid, which pays for a heck of a lot of stuff that my very costly insurance through my employer does not provide for. Many uninsured people are working people who are not offered insurance through their employer, or cannot afford the plan they are offered, (or they are self-employed), and they cannot afford an individual policy. The problem at that point is that the insurance companies charge a lot for insurance. They charge a lot because they pay out a lot, many times for unneccessary things. For example, I can only imagine how much insurance companies pay every year for antibiotics that are prescribed for colds or other viruses, when antibiotics do nothing to help.

I am not a minority, and I am not poor, but if I was on life support for a terminal disease of which I was no doubt going to die of anyway, my family would not be able to afford to keep me on it indefinately. And I would not want them to. Sure it would be great to be able to see some people before I died, or to go somewhere, or experience certain things. But in my opinion, it would be wrong of me to expect someone else to foot the bill for it. The desire to die in her mother's arms is really touching, and I wish she had been able to do so, but sometimes we just do not get everything that we want.

 

[Charade]

My family pays 20% of our take home for our share of the premiums for an HMO. I would pay that much for a universal healthcare system.

Key words: "your share". What if it cost 30 percent to get UHC? 40 percent? What if the cost was more and the coverage was less? We know that a lot of the people don't have health care because they can't afford it. If you add 40+ million more people to the system who can't afford to pay the same "share" as you, it's gonna cost you more.

 

[froglady]

Maybe the government should force them to put that excess money back into the system so more people could have (or have better) healthcare.

Oh, so DH who had to pay for 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, worked minimum wage for 5 more years, puts in 60 hour weeks, plus being on call, which sometimes includes being in the OR all night, and already pays more than 1/3 of his income in taxes should now be FORCED to pay any "excess" money for other people's health care? (Nevermind the volunteer time he gives to provide care for those who can't pay, or choose not to.)

Only when all of the lawyers, actors, athletes, entertainers, models, CEOs and celebrities who make "excess" money are also forced to pay, also.

 

[Charade]

Its ok to kill sopmeone because they do not have money. It is ok to play GOD, with this lady's life. But, it was not ok to play GOD with T. Schiavo's life? It is OK to play GOD as executioner, but not ok for abortions?

What hypocrits you are. Dawn sits their and says that this case is different, that this lady was going to die. Until you are appointed supreme being, you don't know that. You don't know if dh cousin was going to die. You were told that, but, you don't know it.

What gives you, or anybody, the right to take a life. You are all in favor of letting this lady die, but not Schiavo. Believe what you want, killing is killing, and if you support one, you should support the other. Are you outraged at the doctors in New Orleans, who have allegations of this same thing made against them? Are you outraged at every execution?

To those who try to make up a difference between these two ladies, you are so full of it. On one hand, you have a lady who is still alive, conscious, and is aware of her surroundings. On the other, you have a lady who may be brain dead. So, the brain dead white lady with some $$ deserves to live, while the conscious, terminal ill lady, who is poor and black, deserves to die, because you pull the plug, not becaue the life ended naturally.

Whoa! Who peed in your coffee???

Her life *did* end naturally. Once the LIFE SUPPORT system was removed.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I can't believe that this is getting more airtime on DIS than the 13 miners in WV.

BTW in 2005 of all the money DH and I spend over 15% of it was on LTC and health insurance so we are more in control of our medical care. Yes there still are insurance companies to please, but if that was DH I would have the money to move him to a private nursing home (or our own home) to make the end of his life comfortable. I would have loved to spend that 15% somewhere else, but we put more value on health insurance than on paying our mortgage.

Why should I pay for her care and my care. Does seem a little unfair. I do believe in basic care being taken care of by the state, but this was asking too much of the state. Her family could have paid the extra bills.

 

[Charade]

Oh, so DH who had to pay for 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, worked minimum wage for 5 more years, puts in 60 hour weeks, plus being on call, which sometimes includes being in the OR all night, and already pays more than 1/3 of his income in taxes should now be FORCED to pay any "excess" money for other people's health care? (Nevermind the volunteer time he gives to provide care for those who can't pay, or choose not to.)

Only when all of the lawyers, actors, athletes, entertainers, models, CEOs and celebrities who make "excess" money are also forced to pay, also.

Sorry, but I'm not a liberal nor do I play one on TV. I don't care how much money someone makes (unless they steal it). And I certainly don't except them to put it back in to the system in the form of extra taxes or penalties. If they want to be greedy, so be it. Karma will get them. Hopefully.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Its ok to kill sopmeone because they do not have money. It is ok to play GOD, with this lady's life. But, it was not ok to play GOD with T. Schiavo's life? It is OK to play GOD as executioner, but not ok for abortions?

What hypocrits you are.

I would not kill somebody just because they don't have money, but I will not keep somebody who is terminal on life support at my expense. Her family could have paid the mother to come and to keep her alive until she arrived. Why should I? I for one backed the husband in the TS case. I have never had an abortion and never would. So where am I a hypocrit?

 

[Galahad]

What color is the sky in your world?

American physicans generally travel extensively - yes, on cruises too. Being a nurse and having worked with many, many physicians I know this to be a fact. They have wonderful vacactions - foreign, exotic, leisurely. Who treats their patients? The other docs in the practice, docs who trade call with other practices, and in one case NO ONE AT ALL (his patients were told to go to the ER if they had a problem).

DW is almost never away from her practice. She's one of only 7 physicians in the state in her specialty. It really is quite common for physicians to take surprisingly few vacations.

The trend that was undeniable for years - of Canadian physicians coming to American to work for a number of reasons for various lengths of time - has pretty much reversed itself according to a recent report I read in the AMA newspaper (not JAMA, but their newspaper). FWIW, I think there are countless problems with the Canadian healthcare model and I pray we NEVER adopt it, but their physicians are nurses are every bit right on the leading edge along with U.S providers.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Key words: "your share". What if it cost 30 percent to get UHC? 40 percent? What if the cost was more and the coverage was less? We know that a lot of the people don't have health care because they can't afford it. If you add 40+ million more people to the system who can't afford to pay the same "share" as you, it's gonna cost you more.

ITA. BTW why is the Chancellor of Germany vowing to reform the social system and lower taxes if this is the right way to got. Other socialistic countries are going more toward our way, but we want to go toward theirs?
I suspect that you would pay atleast 50% more and have worse care too.

 

[Galahad]

Sorry, but I'm not a liberal nor do I play one on TV. I don't care how much money someone makes (unless they steal it). And I certainly don't except them to put it back in to the system in the form of extra taxes or penalties. If they want to be greedy, so be it. Karma will get them. Hopefully.

Charade, this is also VERY common: 23% of DW's practice is "charity". She gets no payment for it of ANY kind. The average in her specialty is 20%. Whether somebody can pay does not affect they way they are treated and it would unethical for it to do so. MOST physicians do a great deal to "give back".

BTW, if our tax burden were only 1/3, I'd be throwing a party!