Third party commercial renters

[Mouseforward]

1.Don't remember how many reservations I had exactly. I had under 20 within the year, but more than 20 in the rolling 12 months. It was then I found out that the 20 limit was per rolling 12 months.

2. I called up DVC said I bought a number of contracts with banked points that I couldn't use, said I wouldn't be doing that again and they were fine with that. Have never heard back from them again even though I do a number of rentals each year I just make sure to never get close to 20 reservations within a rolling 12 months, which is why I never do small 1 or 2 day reservations and have a 100 point minimum.

3. No reservations were cancelled.

Thanks for posting your experience

A key point is that he was notified- and he had an opportunity to clarify.

It makes good business sense for DVC to notify like this and if DVC wanted to change this standard I would expect a member update would be published.

Definitely supports the interpretation that DVC rules are targeted at LLCs who purchase with the intent not to vacation at WDW but to make a profit of rentals.

As anyone who rents points and pays the taxes knows - you do not make a profit off renting 100 points of your 500. After taxes are paid you only cover a fraction of your total dues for the year. It would require a very low purchase price and a large volume to make it a worthwhile commercial venture.

 

[Ronaldo17]

Park reservations for AP holders are just annoying at this point and serves very little purpose. Keep them for Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas if they must, and just dump them for every other time of year. You can always modify day of anyway at all other times of year, it’s just an annoying extra step.

Yep, spot on.

 

[xdan0920]

even though I do a number of rentals each year I just make sure to never get close to 20 reservations within a rolling 12 months, which is why I never do small 1 or 2 day reservations and have a 100 point minimum.

Nothing against you Doug.

But can anyone explain how this is not “a pattern of rental activity?”

 

[Chuck S]

Nothing against you Doug.

But can anyone explain how this is not “a pattern of rental activity?”

Yes, as far as DVC is concerned, this does not meet their criteria for a pattern of commercial rental activity, and we are specifically allowed to rent. It is DVCs criteria and judgment that supercedes anyone else's.

 

[xdan0920]

Yes, as far as DVC is concerned, this does not meet their criteria for a pattern of commercial rental activity, and we are specifically allowed to rent. It is DVCs criteria and judgment that supercedes anyone else's.

I see you moved some words around there.

 

[Chuck S]

I see you moved some words around there.

The point is, whether you or I, or anyone else believe it constitutes a pattern of rental activity or not, is irrelevant, isn't it? If Disney does not believe it meets their criteria for a pattern of rental activity, it is allowed. They are concerned about the big players, not the DVC Owner that rents a portion of their points every year, until it hits a threshold number of rentals.

If an owner consistently rents points once every 5 years, that is also a "pattern" isn't it? But it isn't commercial renting by DVC's standards.

 

[Mouseforward]

The point is, whether you or I, or anyone else believe it constitutes a pattern of rental activity or not, is irrelevant, isn't it? If Disney does not believe it meets their criteria for a pattern of rental activity, it is allowed. They are concerned about the big players, not the DVC Owner that rents a portion of their points every year, until it hits a threashold nuumber of rentals.

We need a conduct rule that baseless accusations of violating DVC rules should not be permitted. A small group of posters are harassing members.

 

[xdan0920]

We need a conduct rule that baseless accusations of violating DVC rules should not be permitted. A small group of posters are harassing members.

Can you explain what was harassing? I simply asked, if anyone could tell me how that didn’t constitute a pattern of rental activity.

The more I think about this post the less I understand it. Where is the harassment?

 

[Mouseforward]

If you read the FAQ from Disney - it’s not just a pattern- it’s a pattern that that DVC ( not posters on this form) determined to show that it is commercial. This has been discussed multiple times and you were on the threads. But when you continue to jump in and do this that is what looks like harassment.

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/faq/points/renting

 

[xdan0920]

If you read the FAQ from Disney - it’s not just a pattern- it’s a pattern that that DVC ( not posters on this form) determined to show that it is commercial. This has been discussed multiple times and you were on the threads. But when you continue to jump in and do this that is what looks like harassment.

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/faq/points/renting

Thanks

“Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity”

Hence my question regarding the OP who regularly rents.

 

[tx911]

If you read the FAQ from Disney - it’s not just a pattern- it’s a pattern that that DVC ( not posters on this form) determined to show that it is commercial. This has been discussed multiple times and you were on the threads. But when you continue to jump in and do this that is what looks like harassment.

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/faq/points/renting

Members may rent their Vacation Points. However, the use of your Vacation Points for commercial purposes is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by a Member that the Board of Condominium Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

I have to say, this is vague as hell. I guess intentionally so.

 

[Mouseforward]

Members may rent their Vacation Points. However, the use of your Vacation Points for commercial purposes is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by a Member that the Board of Condominium Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

I have to say, this is vague as hell. I guess intentionally so.

I agree that it would be nice for DVC to have more clarity and specifics but I bet that would just give the bad actors a way to work around them. DVC has the job of making that decision. But just like the other controversial areas like walking and DAS it is better to avoid calling out people since we are not the ones tasked with that decision. ( that is my point)

 

[Chuck S]

Vague, likely to give them wiggle room to investigate and see if they deem it "commercial."

Notice that it doesn't say the sole criteria for considering it a commercial activity is just a pattern, there are other un-named factors they can consider. Basically, it "includes" but is not limited to, a pattern of rental activity.

 

[xdan0920]

Vague, likely to give them wiggle room to investigate and see if they deem it "commercial."

Notice that it doesn't say the sole criteria for considering it a commercial activity is just a pattern, there are other un-named factors they can consider. Basically, it "includes" but is not limited to, a pattern of rental activity.

Well that’s right. So I assume we agree the OP is engaging in a pattern of rental activity. But actually that’s fine bc there’s some other criteria we can’t see that makes it a-ok?

 

[Chuck S]

Well that’s right. So I assume we agree the OP is engaging in a pattern of rental activity. But actually that’s fine bc there’s some other criteria we can’t see that makes it a-ok?

As I said, ANYTHING can be a pattern, even 1 rental every 5 years is a pattern. If someone does 3 one night rentals, one time, it is a pattern because they are all one night rentals... Anyone's opinion on what constitutes a pattern is irrelevant. It is DVC opinion on what constitutes a pattern that matters. More is needed that just a simple pattern for DVC to determine it is "commercial."

 

[xdan0920]

As I said, ANYTHING can be a pattern, even 1 rental every 5 years is a pattern. If someone does 3 one night rentals, one time, it is a pattern because they are all one night rentals... Anyone's opinion on what constitutes a pattern is irrelevant. It is DVC opinion on what constitutes a pattern that matters. More is needed that just a simple pattern for DVC to determine it is "commercial."

Cool hypotheticals. Let’s focus on what was posted. Multiple rentals, every year, with 100pt minimums.

 

[Sandisw]

Nothing against you Doug.

But can anyone explain how this is not “a pattern of rental activity?”

Because the pattern of rental activity has to be high enough to rise to the level of what DVC can conclude is a commercial enterprise or practice.

They have always implied and even interpreted the clause in 2008 to be a larger number of reservations that moved you from renting within reason and renting in a way that makes you seem like it’s a business.

Now, with the RIV resorts and beyond, they have added some specifics that they could use to help support the case.

Ultimately. DVC is the one who gets to decide what allows them to come to that conclusion.

So, it’s not just renting…or even renting yearly…it’s renting in such a way that DVC decides your reason for owning is not for vacations but rather for a commercial reason.

Is it a pattern? Yes. Is it a pattern that makes you in violation of the contract? Not according to DVC.

If the rule is or was 20 reservations a year and DVC has decided that below that is acceptable use of your right to rent, then that’s it.

One doesn’t have to like DVCs defined threshold but the get to set it. And, for that poster, since being reviewed, and not being sent a letter again, what he is doing is allowed.

And that is what it’s all about, right? How do one’s action fit within the context of DVC…not what it might be in a different context.

If DVC came out tomorrow and said “An owner is allowed up to 20 reservations in a rolling 12 month period across all their memberships in their name or the names of friends, families and renters”.

Anything above that would be considered a violation of the commercial purpose clause,

Would not agree that would be the rules owners have to follow?

 

[Chuck S]

Cool hypotheticals. Let’s focus on what was posted. Multiple rentals, every year, with 100pt minimums.

Again, anyone's personal definition of a pattern is irrelevant. It is DVCs criteria that counts. And there are other elements that need to be present.

 

[Chuck S]

OK, the last several posts have been removed, and this thread is also now closed.