Thinking of buying RIV direct, help me decide!

[iflyjetzzz]

I could also see disney selling an upgrade fee to make a Resale Riv Contract able to stay at the rest of the resorts. Say for $50 a point. This helps disney recoup the lost cash of resale sales.

I don't see that happening. I think DVC has bought into the long term view of leaving the resale requirement in place for direct sales.

 

[pineapplepalms]

I will just say part of the roadblock when I go through the idea of buying RIV is that my BWV 150 Points can not be used there. In addition any points we ever buy in the future resale can also not be used there.

Being forced to do a split stay is not ideal and doing the whole every other year thing might end up being more of risk as its pointed out this year with people losing points.

For me the restrictions actually put more obstacles to buying. I typically see people not worry when they have tons of points but I think its missed by the first time DVC purchasers who essentially will lock themselves in to buying direct for a 25-35% markup (possibly even more).

I hear you... while I'm not worried about the restrictions and my ownership, at the same time I'm not a fan of them either. I can see how they would deter some buyers. We all have our own biases. In our situation, we have a good amount of points and the last of our resale points were purchased before the latest restrictions so they can be used at all DVC resorts. By adding on RIV last year direct, all of our points will continue to be usable at all DVC resorts.

But with RIV pricing, considering it's a 50 year contract and with current incentives, I think it can still make sense if you hold it for a long time and love the resort. While the point charts are higher, the room layout and bed situation with the Murphy beds help since we will book a 1BR there for longer, whereas at BWV we would book a 2BR since I just don't like the sofa beds. The points may be similar, but with young kids we actually prefer the smaller size of the 1BR so we can hear them more easily if they wake up at night. I adore the BWV atmosphere and location (which is why we own there too), but much prefer the room layout and decor at RIV. I don't like that BWV only has lock-offs since sometimes those 2BRs go very quickly.

It's funny, I thought we would hate split stays with young kids. We ended doing split stays on our last two trips with our 1 and 3 year olds and were surprised how much we enjoyed them. It helps that we usually stay for at least a total of 10 nights since we travel from the west coast, so we have time to settle in at each resort. It was a nice change of scenery to stay in a different resort in a different area and have better access to different things. In December we stayed at VGF and then moved to BWV, and arranged our park days to minimize travel time. I do recognize that it was our choice to do the split stays and we might feel differently if that weren't the case.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

I don't see that happening. I think DVC has bought into the long term view of leaving the resale requirement in place for direct sales.

Kind of a no brainer though. They give benefits for a nice chunk of cash for those that want to pay. It fits in the model with everything else they do. Dessert Parties $$$, Early Mornings $$$, Minnie Vans $$$.

for $50-70 a point they make your Riviera Resale points now unrestricted, and its a win win for everyone.

 

[iflyjetzzz]

Kind of a no brainer though. They give benefits for a nice chunk of cash for those that want to pay. It fits in the model with everything else they do. Dessert Parties $$$, Early Mornings $$$, Minnie Vans $$$.

for $50-70 a point they make your Riviera Resale points now unrestricted, and its a win win for everyone.

I used to think that, but it's not the case. Disney loses by doing that. They want to sell as many points as possible in order to ensure annual MFs and people locked into a Disney vacation.
Your suggestion will result in less points being sold.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

I used to think that, but it's not the case. Disney loses by doing that. They want to sell as many points as possible in order to ensure annual MFs and people locked into a Disney vacation.
Your suggestion will result in less points being sold.

How does this result in less points being sold? Resale points are already sold points. Except with selling an upgrade of the points its almost pure profit.

 

[iflyjetzzz]

How does this result in less points being sold? Resale points are already sold points. Except with selling an upgrade of the points its almost pure profit.

People who want direct benefits would arbitrage by buying resale and paying the upcharge rather than just buying direct. They'd rather sell you another 100 points to give you direct benefits than charging $50/pt for the direct benefits.

I understand that's what you want (I would have liked it too) but it's not going to happen.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

People who want direct benefits would arbitrage by buying resale and paying the upcharge rather than just buying direct. They'd rather sell you another 100 points to give you direct benefits than charging $50/pt for the direct benefits.

I understand that's what you want (I would have liked it too) but it's not going to happen.

I Look at it as instead of disney buying back contracts selling upgrades on resale skips that part and they still profit.

 

[iflyjetzzz]

I Look at it as instead of disney buying back contracts selling upgrades on resale skips that part and they still profit.

Again, I understand your desires. But it is less likely to happen than DVC giving free APs for a couple of years. And that's not likely at all.
I'd like to see the same - buy into full benefits for resale purchasers.

Instead of dreaming up 'so there's a chance' (see Dumb and Dumber for that reference) scenarios, why not just bite the bullet and
1) buy 100 direct points for the perks you want and
2) sell your extra resale points.

Problem solved and probably not much different in cost than what you're proposing.

 

[sethschroeder]

Murphy beds help since we will book a 1BR there for longer

I can book a 2BR at multiple resorts including BWV for less points. I would also say Murphy Beds likely will come to most resorts in the next 10 years as they do refurbs.

I was actually surprised but was looking it up when reading through a Best 1BR post.

I do recognize that it was our choice to do the split stays and we might feel differently if that weren't the case.

Doing some split stays isn't a bad thing. My point was more so being locked in and required to do a split stay most likely.

 

[sethschroeder]

People who want direct benefits would arbitrage by buying resale and paying the upcharge rather than just buying direct. They'd rather sell you another 100 points to give you direct benefits than charging $50/pt for the direct benefits.

I understand that's what you want (I would have liked it too) but it's not going to happen.

Except based on your example that is correct. If DVC allowed you to upgrade though it would be for $75-$100 (more than they make on ROFR) and be required for all points on your contract not just 100.

If anything doing this model is way more likely because as Disney has now found out they can be doing ROFR and then all of a sudden get stuck with a bunch of contracts/points.

Also by putting out an upgrade cost they will push resale value lower allowing them to ROFR for greater profit if they wanted to. The reason resale will go lower is people will do the math and decide they want the option to upgrade someday for no more than direct prices.

 

[iflyjetzzz]

Except based on your example that is correct. If DVC allowed you to upgrade though it would be for $75-$100 (more than they make on ROFR) and be required for all points on your contract not just 100.

If anything doing this model is way more likely because as Disney has now found out they can be doing ROFR and then all of a sudden get stuck with a bunch of contracts/points.

Also by putting out an upgrade cost they will push resale value lower allowing them to ROFR for greater profit if they wanted to. The reason resale will go lower is people will do the math and decide they want the option to upgrade someday for no more than direct prices.

Again, the Disney juggernaut wants to have more outstanding points. They didn't ROFR a ton of stuff before and they are pretty much out of the market now. In spite of them being out of the market, resale prices are holding up pretty well for now.
More outstanding points means more MFs, more people coming to DisneyWorld, more tickets sold, more food sold, more tchotchkes sold, more money in the coffers. So they want more outstanding points.

But let's go with your $75-100 to upgrade to get a blue card. Anyone who paid that amount to upgrade their resale gets my vote for the Darwin award in finance because it's cheaper to sell your contract and buy direct.


What I haven't seen written yet, and what people should be able to recognize is that DVC is just another loyalty program, no different than airline, hotel, car, even restaurant loyalty programs. The entire purpose of corporate loyalty programs is to get members to spend more money with that corporation. Bolded because that's EXACTLY what DVC does. It is all about getting one in the Disney bubble on a regular basis and have you spend every last dime on Disney stuff. And with DVC, they're able to have you spend money on Disney lodging every month so that when you get there, the money you've got saved can all go to other stuff.
I've chased hotel loyalty programs over the years and had top status with most of them (Marriott, Starwood, Hyatt, Fairmont, IHG, Hilton). Every single one of them (same goes for other industry loyalty programs) give you small perks so that you spend more money with them. I don't chase airline programs because I have employee benefits but that's the same setup. Same with my Hertz and Avis status/loyalty.
Even restaurants have caught on to this, such as Landry's Select Club, Bloomin' Brands (Bonefish Grill, Outback, Carrabbas) Dine Rewards, Lettuce Entertain You, El Pollo Loco, Smashburger, Red Robin, Pizza Hut, Papa John's and a bunch of other restaurants have caught on to this and offer discounts/free stuff to repeat customers.

This entire discussion is about how resale buyers can get to that next level - direct perks. Disney isn't going to offer resale buyers a quick payment to get the blue card; it damages the loyalty program. I could even see them increasing the minimum points required to get the blue card.

 

[sethschroeder]

resale prices are holding up pretty well for now.

They are slowly dropping so no they are not holding. They are on a slow March downwards and end of year will drop a little quicker as people avoid MFs.

More outstanding points means more MFs, more people coming to DisneyWorld, more tickets sold, more food sold, more tchotchkes sold, more money in the coffers. So they want more outstanding points.

Yes they want less ROFR if possible but still make money off the resale market.

Disney isn't going to offer resale buyers a quick payment to get the blue card; it damages the loyalty program.

Except they do this, buy 100 points direct and you have a blue card. So there is no difference outside the points possibly being locked out of a few resorts in 20 years time.

But let's go with your $75-100 to upgrade to get a blue card. Anyone who paid that amount to upgrade their resale gets my vote for the Darwin award in finance because it's cheaper to sell your contract and buy direct.

People already buy SSR direct and you could get that for $75/point less. BWV is $100/point less right now if you are aggressive. By the way every day resale is getting cheaper and direct is not changing (yet).

What you keep forgetting is doing ROFR requires someone to sell and buy. Doing a overpriced upgrade just requires someone to buy. It also allows you to pitch to all those members on resale consistently.

Finally while a $75-$100 price is likely in my opinion they can do short term incentives such as buy a RIV add on and get a discount on your point upgrade, ect.

Oh and didn't even note the biggest Ace which is Disney requiring all new Blue cards to have 100% of points direct with no resale attached to that membership number.

 

[pineapplepalms]

I can book a 2BR at multiple resorts including BWV for less points. I would also say Murphy Beds likely will come to most resorts in the next 10 years as they do refurbs.

I was actually surprised but was looking it up when reading through a Best 1BR post.

It's true, but I was saying with young kids I prefer the 1BR with Murphy beds layout because they're closer to us and we can hear them more easily when they wake up at night. With the BWV 2BR, they're very far from us and it's kind of overkill with kids so little, plus the lock-off only thing is something I really don't like. Not to say I'm not going to book 2BRs elsewhere in order to have real beds, but I do prefer the RIV layout. We also own at VGF which is another point hungry resort, while the other resorts we own cost less points, so it's a non-issue for us in the grand scheme of things. I really hope the Murphy beds do come to more of the resorts over time.

 

[sethschroeder]

It's true, but I was saying with young kids I prefer the 1BR with Murphy beds layout because they're closer to us and we can hear them more easily when they wake up at night. With the BWV 2BR, they're very far from us and it's kind of overkill with kids so little, plus the lock-off only thing is something I really don't like. Not to say I'm not going to book 2BRs elsewhere in order to have real beds, but I do prefer the RIV layout. We also own at VGF which is another point hungry resort, while the other resorts we own cost less points, so it's a non-issue for us in the grand scheme of things. I really hope the Murphy beds do come to more of the resorts over time.

Ya I would only do the 1BR really to save points. Makes sense and there are some out there without lockoffs but ya that is a downside to BWV for sure.

 

[iflyjetzzz]

They are slowly dropping so no they are not holding. They are on a slow March downwards and end of year will drop a little quicker as people avoid MFs.

Not dropping since March. They've held pretty constant. They're missing the big summer rise in price. And this is pretty much peak month. Of course they'll drop into the end of the year; they always do.

What you keep forgetting is doing ROFR requires someone to sell and buy. Doing a overpriced upgrade just requires someone to buy. It also allows you to pitch to all those members on resale consistently.

No I'm not. DVC sells, putting more points in the system.
Someone like you who's chasing status will sell their points to a new loyalty program member. And then you buy direct for the blue card.
DVC accomplishes exactly what it's supposed to- handcuff more loyal Disney fans into a 'lifetime of vacations' at ... Disney World. Not London, not New York City, but locked into the Disney bubble. And with more points in the system.

Finally while a $75-$100 price is likely in my opinion they can do short term incentives such as buy a RIV add on and get a discount on your point upgrade, ect.

You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning than that happening.

Oh and didn't even note the biggest Ace which is Disney requiring all new Blue cards to have 100% of points direct with no resale attached to that membership number.

Well, you're definitely NOT a lawyer. Of all your comments, this one is the prize winner. And you probably don't understand why I say that.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

They are slowly dropping so no they are not holding. They are on a slow March downwards and end of year will drop a little quicker as people avoid MFs.



Yes they want less ROFR if possible but still make money off the resale market.



Except they do this, buy 100 points direct and you have a blue card. So there is no difference outside the points possibly being locked out of a few resorts in 20 years time.



People already buy SSR direct and you could get that for $75/point less. BWV is $100/point less right now if you are aggressive. By the way every day resale is getting cheaper and direct is not changing (yet).

What you keep forgetting is doing ROFR requires someone to sell and buy. Doing a overpriced upgrade just requires someone to buy. It also allows you to pitch to all those members on resale consistently.

Finally while a $75-$100 price is likely in my opinion they can do short term incentives such as buy a RIV add on and get a discount on your point upgrade, ect.

Oh and didn't even note the biggest Ace which is Disney requiring all new Blue cards to have 100% of points direct with no resale attached to that membership number.

Totally agree. Your seeing it the way I was thinking

 

[sethschroeder]

Not dropping since March. They've held pretty constant. They're missing the big summer rise in price. And this is pretty much peak month. Of course they'll drop into the end of the year; they always do.

Except prices are coming down. What is propping up the "averages" is more small contracts seem to be hitting the market that normal which will always sell for a higher cost.

I also recently talked with 2 different companies about selling another contract. Both suggested high listing costs but outlined I likely would need to take less. Flip side when I talked to them in March/April there was no games with the price and ended up selling my two smaller contracts at that time for asking.

No I'm not. DVC sells, putting more points in the system. Someone like you who's chasing status will sell their points to a new loyalty program member.

Except that system does not stop occurring (it possibly will even be less expensive to go that route). Most people will not go through the hoops to sell and buy the same exact contract. Its also not instant and takes that direct buyer months (now many months) to get the money from resale at which point they may choose to actually walk away. Its a safer transaction and more secure conversion of members by not having them sell all their points.

DVC accomplishes exactly what it's supposed to- handcuff more loyal Disney fans into a 'lifetime of vacations' at ... Disney World. Not London, not New York City, but locked into the Disney bubble. And with more points in the system.

Except the number of points is predefined. The only difference is who pays what costs to the baseline points. The difference between an upgrade or no upgrade system is minimal in the speed at which a resort will likely sell out because a tiny percentage of new resort points will ever be sold to this type of individual. Possibly 0.1% of points were sold like that at RIV?

Well, you're definitely NOT a lawyer. Of all your comments, this one is the prize winner. And you probably don't understand why I say that.

Yup because Disney has never put new requirements on the system before. Its not like they haven't restricted points to specific use at resorts based on when they were bought. So nah they could never attach for new members the requirement for all their points to be purchased on a specific membership to be direct to keep the direct benefits. I mean its not like they don't require you to keep 100 direct points at this point instead of selling off 50 of your 100 after you unlock that blue card.

So you explain to me then how any of all the other restrictions are allowed but somehow a requirement to have a membership be only direct points be a line. Again I didn't say anything about existing members I am talking about going forward new members who sign up for that system.

I am not saying this will happen but at the same time its not something as far fetched as you want to make it seem.

 

[JoshF]

Does Riviera have enough activities for kids? It appeals to me because it's new and seems to have high end finishes. Just wondering if I would be better off buying elsewhere for my kid from 6-12 years old.

 

[Royal Consort]

Does Riviera have enough activities for kids? It appeals to me because it's new and seems to have high end finishes. Just wondering if I would be better off buying elsewhere for my kid from 6-12 years old.

The splash zone looks fantastic but that may be for younger children. To be fair, I don't see Riviera as particularly kid friendly compared to other resorts. That's why as a couple of childless millennials, we purchased for the high end finishes you described above. Than again, kids aren't 6 and 12 forever.

 

[Roughians_satchel]

Love the RIV, bought in right away, and are a huge fan of the skyliner access. It doesn't bother us one bit that we're attached to Moderate/Value resorts. Our other home resort is GCV, which I would argue is one of the nicest DVC in existence. The RIV is on that level. We also have 4 kids ages 15, 13, 11, and 9. They all had a blast - kept running back and forth between the two pools. For our family, direct access to the MK isn't as much a priority as it is to being close to HS and Epcot. They also played with the boardgames in the lounge next to the lobby, and played the lawn chess while we were waiting for our room.