Thinking about Buying OKW - Am I missing anything?

[hosler427]

I have been doing research on DVC on and off for about a year. To give you a little background, my family has been visiting Disney World since I was 3 years old (1983). I live in northern NY about 3 miles from the Canadian border so the trips were always infrequent and special. I have been 11 times for 8+days . I am now 36 years old. My wife and I do not have any kids. We both have good jobs (not rich by any means but doing well). As of now we plan 10-14 day Disney trips once every three years. Up to this point we have stayed at Pop Century in recent years.

A lot has changed for us in the last couple years financially. We have very stable jobs for a growing company that isn't going anywhere. So we are finally taking our honeymoon trip 11 years late next year. So with that we are looking at renting DVC points for the first time and my mind began to wonder. What if we bought into DVC? OKW is one of the more affordable places. I have visited the resort and loved it as well. I live 2 hours away from Saratoga Springs in NY so the SSR doesn't do it for me. I fully realize that buying into DVC isn't a financial investment. This is something I want...not something I need. I am looking at 75-125 point buy in and taking every other year trips from here on. Maybe some will be resort only stays as time goes on. Going forward, we planned on upgrading our Disney accomodations for our trips so the timing is right. So I am either looking at buying before our next trip or use this trip renting points at OKW as a gauge for what we want to do. So with that...here are the questions:

1. Has anyone else taken this approach? Renting to see if buying makes sense?

2. I think I understand the Use Year deal. I don't think this issue matters too much for us. Am I right that UY isn't a big deal if we aren't in a position where cancellations matter?

3. We would like be staying November-February every visit. What UY month would you go for?

4. With a 2057 expiration, what price per point is fair for OKW? I see one listing I have interest in but $87 seems high.

5. Would you wait until after the next trip to buy?

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

Renting is a good idea.

Use year should matter very much if you go only once in three years. If you do have to cancel late in your use year, you will lose a significant amount of points and you will be able to only go once in 6 years, and that will severely impact the financial case.

Going only once every three years will severely impact your financial case if you incorporate the time value of money. You should break even within the first 7 to 10 years for this to make sense for you, and it is hard to do that if only going every three years. I would suggest renting unless you find yourself coming more often.

For your dates, a September or October use year would work, with October being slightly better.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

1. Rent first to sniff it out. If you take a DVC tour, my tip is never mention resale to the guides. Some are quite honest. Some will spew epic misdirection and sometimes even outright lies.

2. Every two years is a good frequency for DVC. Every 3 has a lot more risk with a lot more chance points will be orphaned, and your cancel risk becomes much higher. If you cancel, you are likely to lose a lot of points.

3. August, September, October.

4. Read the ROFR threads.

5. Yes.

Additional thoughts:

• Roughly 1/3 or less of OKW is on a 2057 expiration due to the poorly received and adopted extension offer. No one knows what happens in 2042 with the other 2/3 of the resort. It may be that only the extended contracts continue. It may be that resort amenities go away for the people on extended contracts as large sections of the resort are redeveloped. It may be that the extension is offered again and more people take it. It may be something else entirely. There is some risk in buying OKW due to this uncertainty, which is greater for this 2042 resort than others because of the screwed-up extension.
• You need to understand banking, borrowing, UY, 11/7 rule, DVC 'member benefits,' the 4/16 rule, reallocation and DVC seasons.
• November is DVC high season. If you buy OKW you need to expect to be staying there for 90% of trips in November or December, with the best chance of staying elsewhere dependent on waitlist.

 

[hosler427]

Renting is a good idea.

Use year should matter very much if you go only once in three years. If you do have to cancel late in your use year, you will lose a significant amount of points and you will be able to only go once in 6 years, and that will severely impact the financial case.

Going only once every three years will severely impact your financial case if you incorporate the time value of money. You should break even within the first 7 to 10 years for this to make sense for you, and it is hard to do that if only going every three years. I would suggest renting unless you find yourself coming more often.

For your dates, a September or October use year would work, with October being slightly better.

Just to clarify...Up until now we have done once every three years. I plan on doing once every two years from now on if we do the purchase. I am glad to see my initial thoughts of doing the September/October UY as a preference was right. It means I kind of understand this thing lol. I will say the entire process is more complex than I anticipated.

 

[hosler427]

1. Rent first to sniff it out. If you take a DVC tour, my tip is never mention resale to the guides. Some are quite honest. Some will spew epic misdirection and sometimes even outright lies.

2. Every two years is a good frequency for DVC. Every 3 has a lot more risk with a lot more chance points will be orphaned, and your cancel risk becomes much higher. If you cancel, you are likely to lose a lot of points.

3. August, September, October.

4. Read the ROFR threads.

5. Yes.

Additional thoughts:

• Roughly 1/3 or less of OKW is on a 2057 expiration due to the poorly received and adopted extension offer. No one knows what happens in 2042 with the other 2/3 of the resort. It may be that only the extended contracts continue. It may be that resort amenities go away for the people on extended contracts as large sections of the resort are redeveloped. It may be that the extension is offered again and more people take it. It may be something else entirely. There is some risk in buying OKW due to this uncertainty, which is greater for this 2042 resort than others because of the screwed-up extension.
• You need to understand banking, borrowing, UY, 11/7 rule, DVC 'member benefits,' the 4/16 rule, reallocation and DVC seasons.
• November is DVC high season. If you buy OKW you need to expect to be staying there for 90% of trips in November or December, with the best chance of staying elsewhere dependent on waitlist.

Thank you! All great feedback. I hadn't thought of doing a DVC tour honestly...is there a benefit to this? Anything I can gain in person that I can't from doing research?

 

[bumbershoot]

Thank you! All great feedback. I hadn't thought of doing a DVC tour honestly...is there a benefit to this? Anything I can gain in person that I can't from doing research?

Not in my opinion.

But then we bought Bay Lake, direct, with a loan, without ever having taken a family trip to Orlando. So maybe you shouldn't listen to me.

We had taken a tour but it was in California.

 

[hosler427]

Not in my opinion.

But then we bought Bay Lake, direct, with a loan, without ever having taken a family trip to Orlando. So maybe you shouldn't listen to me.

We had taken a tour but it was in California.

LOL...I can actually respect that. I am not coming from a place of logic with this endevour as well. Who needs logic? You only live once. This is about having a home away from home at Disney World. How can that not be a positive?

 

[Wakey]

I would think maybe about SSR if you are looking for the best bang for the buck. OKW ends much earlier, unless you get an extended contract, and there are unknowns with that. SSR consistently, year in, year out, tops the best bang for the buck analysis. You will probably not have any problems getting OKW at 7 months mark. After 1st week in Jan to Late Feb, aside from holidays (if there are any, I'm from UK so cannot remember if USA has any holidays then), you will likely be able to book most resorts at 7 months, particularly if you ever want a 1 bed.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I would think maybe about SSR if you are looking for the best bang for the buck. OKW ends much earlier, unless you get an extended contract, and there are unknowns with that. SSR consistently, year in, year out, tops the best bang for the buck analysis. You will probably not have any problems getting OKW at 7 months mark. After 1st week in Jan to Late Feb, aside from holidays (if there are any, I'm from UK so cannot remember if USA has any holidays then), you will likely be able to book most resorts at 7 months, particularly if you ever want a 1 bed.

The holidays to be aware of:

• Marathon (first weekend in January)
• MLK Day (usually 1/16-1/19ish, it's that Monday)
• President's Day (mid-February)
• Princess Half Marathon Weekend (not an actual holiday, but an availability constraint!)

 

[ScubaCat]

Who needs logic? You only live once. This is about having a home away from home at Disney World. How can that not be a positive?

I think that's the only way to justify a timeshare. A timeshare is generally considered a horrible financial investment. Even DVC which holds most of it's value (highly unusual for a timeshare) is not a good financial investment. Buying DVC is an investment in vacations. So, if you're going to take regular vacations to a Disney resort, and you have the money, you're effectively prepaying (mostly) for larger accomodations. For us, it's more than worth it, but it's always a case-by-case decision. Everyone's circumstances and desires are different. It's just important to understand what you're buying and what the purpose of it is.

 

[Mrs.Milo]

I would 2nd SSR as a resort to consider for purchase, longer contract without the OKW risk in 2042.

We originally bought at OKW in 1993 and it's a nice resort. But we sold after staying at Boardwalk, with the entertainment at night on the boardwalk area, and convenience of walking or boating to either Epcot or the Studios. And eventually it became too hard to get in at BWV at 7 months out so we bought a resale. Our biggest negatives at OKW were the 2 beds in a studio, which meant always hanging out on the beds, and the fact it was so far away from everything so always waiting for a bus. Positive is the great space of 1 bedroom, very open.

SSR now has great access to Disney Springs and all the variety of food and shopping and entertainment. All studios other than OKW now have 1 bed plus couch which we prefer, everyone is different of course. Have you looked at floor plans online? There is a lot to consider when picking your home resort, and you can always try to switch resorts at 7 months out.

 

[hosler427]

I would 2nd SSR as a resort to consider for purchase, longer contract without the OKW risk in 2042.

We originally bought at OKW in 1993 and it's a nice resort. But we sold after staying at Boardwalk, with the entertainment at night on the boardwalk area, and convenience of walking or boating to either Epcot or the Studios. And eventually it became too hard to get in at BWV at 7 months out so we bought a resale. Our biggest negatives at OKW were the 2 beds in a studio, which meant always hanging out on the beds, and the fact it was so far away from everything so always waiting for a bus. Positive is the great space of 1 bedroom, very open.

SSR now has great access to Disney Springs and all the variety of food and shopping and entertainment. All studios other than OKW now have 1 bed plus couch which we prefer, everyone is different of course. Have you looked at floor plans online? There is a lot to consider when picking your home resort, and you can always try to switch resorts at 7 months out.

I appreciate the comments. I think part of the draw of any vacation is to relax and feel you are away from home. As I stated...I live very close to the real Saratoga Springs in NY. I just can't bring myself to want to stay there. So I just can't bring myself to seriously consider a resort that I don't have an interst in staying at. I also 100% agree that I don't like the fact that there isn't a couch in the studios at OKW. That is a big negative but we are not ones to spend a ton of time in the room. For future resort only stays (if we decide to ever do that), I anticipate trying to stay in a different resort or upgrading to a one bedroom villa. I fully understand everyone guiding me to SSR but it just isn't for me.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

In general, you ought to be able to book OKW most of the time at 7 months with Saratoga points, without the risks of what happens after 2042.

After 2042, depending how they deal with the extension issues, you may not WANT home resort at OKW then.

I think that's really the concern being expressed. The OKW extension was a hot mess, and it is rare that the resolution of a hot mess, years later, is magically delicious for all.

 

[hosler427]

In general, you ought to be able to book OKW most of the time at 7 months with Saratoga points, without the risks of what happens after 2042.

After 2042, depending how they deal with the extension issues, you may not WANT home resort at OKW then.

I think that's really the concern being expressed. The OKW extension was a hot mess, and it is rare that the resolution of a hot mess, years later, is magically delicious for all.

Interesting. Maybe I am not fully understanding the 2042 issue. I was looking specifically at 2057 contracts. I assume the worry is when the majority of the contacts are up in 2042, will Disney just scrap the resort and build something more modern/efficient? And if they do so, it is 100% uncertain how they will handle the remaining 2057 contracts to the resort.....do I have that right?

My lone issue with any of this is I am an absurd planner. The anxiety of even waiting until 7 months in advance will drive me nuts. That said, if there are legit reasons for it I could cope.

 

[disneynutz]

Everything depends on you. If you don't care where you stay and won't be upset if you find later that you love another resort but can't book it at 7 months, buy SSR.

When we started we didn't care, bought BCV. We ended up liking BWV better but couldn't get a boardwalk view so we also bought there. As time goes on, more resorts were built and we bought some of those. When VGF was built we knew that due to it's size that booking there would be a challenge so we bought there.

Now we spend our vacations at BWV, VGF, and BRV, staying at BWV for our Epcot/DHS vacations and VGF or BRV for our MK/AK vacations.

Bill

 

[ELMC]

I have been doing research on DVC on and off for about a year. To give you a little background, my family has been visiting Disney World since I was 3 years old (1983). I live in northern NY about 3 miles from the Canadian border so the trips were always infrequent and special. I have been 11 times for 8+days . I am now 36 years old. My wife and I do not have any kids. We both have good jobs (not rich by any means but doing well). As of now we plan 10-14 day Disney trips once every three years. Up to this point we have stayed at Pop Century in recent years.

A lot has changed for us in the last couple years financially. We have very stable jobs for a growing company that isn't going anywhere. So we are finally taking our honeymoon trip 11 years late next year. So with that we are looking at renting DVC points for the first time and my mind began to wonder. What if we bought into DVC? OKW is one of the more affordable places. I have visited the resort and loved it as well. I live 2 hours away from Saratoga Springs in NY so the SSR doesn't do it for me. I fully realize that buying into DVC isn't a financial investment. This is something I want...not something I need. I am looking at 75-125 point buy in and taking every other year trips from here on. Maybe some will be resort only stays as time goes on. Going forward, we planned on upgrading our Disney accomodations for our trips so the timing is right. So I am either looking at buying before our next trip or use this trip renting points at OKW as a gauge for what we want to do. So with that...here are the questions:

1. Has anyone else taken this approach? Renting to see if buying makes sense?

Yes, this is actually a highly recommended way of going about a purchase. Based on what I have read in this thread I would also highly recommend that you take a tour (for informational purposes) AND visit Saratoga Springs (where the tours happen to be held). I understand what you're saying about living close to the real Saratoga Springs and not wanting to stay there, but I think you might be overcompensating for that fact. Only touring the resort will give you the information you need there. As mentioned, for the most part OKW and SSR function very similarly with regards to the 7/11 month booking window. So if your goal is to stay at OKW, you are better off buying at SSR (longer contract term, lower dues, etc.) and booking at OKW at the 7 month mark. If you are afraid of getting "stuck" at SSR (which you might find is not as bad as you think), then perhaps you might want to look at another home resort where the 11 month advantage is more useful. But with very few exceptions, nobody buys OKW for the 11 month booking window.

2. I think I understand the Use Year deal. I don't think this issue matters too much for us. Am I right that UY isn't a big deal if we aren't in a position where cancellations matter?

Yes, but if you have predictable vacation patterns it does make sense to purchase a UY at the beginning of that window. It will make things easier.

3. We would like be staying November-February every visit. What UY month would you go for?

So in that case I would say AUG, SEPT, OCT. DEC could be tricky, especially since you are trying to do the once every two years thing.

4. With a 2057 expiration, what price per point is fair for OKW? I see one listing I have interest in but $87 seems high.

OKW Extended contracts are tricky because there aren't many on the resale market so they are priced a bit higher because of simple supply and demand. Just as I wouldn't pay to extend an OKW contract when they offered it, I probably wouldn't pay the premium to buy an OKW Extended contract today. I'd stick with 2042 OKW contracts.

5. Would you wait until after the next trip to buy?

Yes. What you spend on rental points will probably be returned in the form of a well informed purchase. Due diligence costs money, sure, but there's a reason people do it. Good luck and keep asking questions!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Well, I guess I'd ask what the appeal of OKW is over another resort. Just the price, or something else? See @disneynutz above. What's the reason you've attached this "buy DVC!!!" to OKW, versus AKV or BLT or somewhere? (We know SSR isn't ringing your bell thematically.)

Because of how the extension went, it will be hard for Disney to just scrap OKW, because the deeds do attach to specific units in the resort. They aren't consistently all in one area or a couple buildings, so they can't just tear a building with outstanding ownership down as I understand things.

But the overall support of amenities may get variable. Hard to say where dues escalate to. A lot of people have faith that Disney will somehow make it right, but RTU is complex at OKW now and what right will look like is anyone's guess.

 

[hosler427]

Well, I guess I'd ask what the appeal of OKW is over another resort. Just the price, or something else? See @disneynutz above. What's the reason you've attached this "buy DVC!!!" to OKW, versus AKV or BLT or somewhere? (We know SSR isn't ringing your bell thematically.)

Because of how the extension went, it will be hard for Disney to just scrap OKW, because the deeds do attach to specific units in the resort. They aren't consistently all in one area or a couple buildings, so they can't just tear a building with outstanding ownership down as I understand things.

But the overall support of amenities may get variable. Hard to say where dues escalate to. A lot of people have faith that Disney will somehow make it right, but RTU is complex at OKW now and what right will look like is anyone's guess.

I probably am too attached to the idea of one specific resort. Initial cost has a lot to do with my interest in OKW. I do really love the resort though...very relaxing vibe that I don't feel at many resorts. I think general availability is another factor...I would love to do AKV. I couldn't afford some of the other resorts at their current price points.

 

[Matty B13]

I would look into AKV as well, might not be as cheap as OKW or SSR, but it isn't that more expensive. But I think it is generally available at the 7 month window.

 

[Judyat]

Keep in mind also the yearly maintenance fees. They keep going up. 330 OKW points will run around $2,ooo yearly.