They do exist!

[gunderda]

My entire group would be screwed if they didn't have me lol I am a planner and a researcher and it's blowing their minds that we have to make all these reservations for everything. There are two people in our group that haven't even bought their tickets yet and our trip is in a month (they're staying with us).
I might drive them all crazy but I don't care.... my biggest deal is the food and I'm making sure I get at least a few good meals reserved so we aren't stuck with crappy options or waiting for hours for a table.

I'm just glad Disney is only 2 days and Universal is 3 so the majority of our trip I don't have to plan this hardcore lol

 

[goofyernmost]

I just make a basic plans to which park to focus on each day. Then I plan our ADRs close to or in that park so we're not running around and missing things. Other than that, I keep it loose because you never know what's going to happen

Exactly! I started going to WDW when it wasn't a marathon run. We took our time, saw what we had time for and moved along. This obsession with doing everything "right now" escapes me. But, like I said, whatever floats one's boat. The awful truth is that one's life will continue to go on, the sun will come up tomorrow and the earth will continue to rotate on its axis even if we miss an attraction.

 

[kbelle8995]

There are lot of people who don't plan Disney just get the information and have a great time. I think Disney is putting far to much emphasize on planning far in advance. You can over plan your vacation as well. If you're not super flexible you're going to be as miserable.

I think that you can go to Disney without planning every single second and have a great time.

 

[6bowmans]

There are lot of people who don't plan Disney just get the information and have a great time.

I need to see the data and a spreadsheet on this - without it this statement is unproven and FALSE!

I think Disney is putting far to much emphasize on planning far in advance.

The only person emphasizing anything is you - absolute laziness and a lack of preparation - your vacation is heading for disaster.

You can over plan your vacation as well. I think that you can go to Disney without planning every single second and have a great time.

This is the most patently false statement I have ever seen on this board...you should be banned for such sacrilege!

If you're not super flexible you're going to be as miserable.

I plan everything to the max - potential changes are planned to the max. I am super happy with all my plans and hundreds of spreadsheets. No one is miserable except everyone in my party.

 

[Angel Ariel]

. We often hear people on these boards say that they won't wait more than 20 minutes for anything. And I guess that's understandable when you are talking about your tenth, or twentieth, or fiftieth ride on a certain attraction. These frequent visitors are aghast at the idea of a 30 minute wait for Pirates, HM, or JC, or a 15 minute wait for IASW. For first time visitors those waits will seem like nothing for their first opportunity to experience some of these classic attractions. And they will enjoy their trips a lot more than the jaded veterans who go into the day expecting to enjoy them less than previous trips

I think this is true for *some* infrequent visitors. I don't think it is true for all. My brother would fit your description of not waiting 20-30 mins in line. He hates crowds and lines. He is *not* a frequent Disney goer. He has been to Disney once as an adult, on our extended family trip in 2013. The last time he'd been at wdw before that was a trip as children in 1995. He doesn't go to 6 flags either. I couldn't even tell you when the last time he went there was. He isn't an amusement park kind of person in general...doesn't matter which park it is.

And yet he did take his kids to Disney, and he did have a great time (in large part b/c we did not wait in lines longer than 20-30 mins, even though it was spring break season).

ETA: I can probably say with a decent amount of certainty that when we take DD to DLR in November I won't wait in a 40+min SB line for a headliner. Why? Not because I've been too frequently and don't think the ride is worth the wait, but because if it's just DH, DD and I, that means spending 40+ mins apart as a family, since DD isn't tall enough for headliners. So, it'll be 20-(maybe) 30 min waits or a FP (using in conjunction with RS for the other parent) - or we won't be riding at all. Our next visit to WDW with her will be similar. Has nothing to do with anything other than it's a family vacation, and we prefer not to split up the family for such long periods.
---END ETA---

I just don't think these kinds of things can be so simplified as to say that those who go to wdw frequently won't wait in the lines because they have ridden them so many times and those who go less frequently will feel like those lines are nothing because they haven't ridden it at all, or in a very long time. There's lots of reasons why people choose not to wait in lines longer than [insert chosen time here]. There's no reason, imo, to make it out to be so black and white.

 

[MainMom]

The only ones that truly have to be uber planners are those that are staying onsite with no vehicle. That determines the extent of the planning necessary. If offsite, dining is never a problem and no reservations are necessary. I went to WDW in February and didn't even decide to go until 9 days before. At that time I did make a decision, based on my preferences, what parks I would be attending and what days. With that information in hand, I made FP choices that all fit into my plans and a couple of dining options that also fit in there. Other then that I had no reason to do anything else. I had park hoppers so I made my FP stuff for morning hours and then if I felt like it or the park was crowded beyond my comfort level, I just went to a different park. There I could add on FP's or not depending on the need. Once you have purchased your park tickets all that set up can happen 30 to 60 days out.

The next argument is well it takes to long to drive offsite and then back, etc. No, there is always a wait time for Disney transportation and sometimes up to and beyond an hour is needed to get from one place to another, especially if the Dining (ADR) is in another park. I always found that if I had breakfast before I went to the parks, lunch at counter service I was able and ready to take a break by just before or just after the 3pm parade. I would leave go back to my hotel room, relax for a while, go out for dinner and then head back to the parks for the evening. It made for a perfect break and downtime and I went back refreshed and ready.

In other words, if you can extract yourself from feeling that you need to stay onsite for the whole experience (untrue) you can not only open up more avenues for flexibility and on top of that save a huge amount of money. That puts me in my Happy Place.

Your plan sounds like my plan only I stay onsite and eat at at TS for lunch most every day in the same park, no extra travel. FP in the later part of the morning, break to hotel after lunch, grab CS dinner at hotel or in park depending on the mood. Sure I made plans at 180 & 60 days, but I can't do a last minute trip unless I want to pay $$$ for 4 airline tickets.

 

[ariane37]

In all my trips, I have never once made a spreadsheet or subscribed to a touring website.

Me neither

 

[ariane37]

I too have stopped giving advice. I find people come to me but then prefer to do things on their own anyway. I think they can't possibly comprehend that what I am telling them (about having to plan) is the truth. I get the feeling that some think I am over-exaggerating.

YES! I hear you on the exaggerating thing. I'll get looks like, "you're kidding, right???" Another reason I've limited the advice I give

 

[Angel Ariel]

I've started changing the advice I give. Now instead of just starting to give out whatever info I think they need, I ask them some basic questions first. I get a feel for what kind of vacation experience they are looking for and tailor my response to fit the responses they're giving me. I do always suggest they get the Unofficial Guide, and take a look at a calendar of crowds like TP or EasyWDW, but outside of that I try to tailor what I say so they don't get overwhelmed. IME, a couple minutes o conversation is just not enough to truly advise someone, but it is enough to overwhelm them. And I always tell them I'm happy to answer other questions as they plan, or to help them plan (if I can, time wise). I try to give just enough to help them get started, but not so much that they stop before they start because it's TMI all at once.

 

[goofyernmost]

Your plan sounds like my plan only I stay onsite and eat at at TS for lunch most every day in the same park, no extra travel. FP in the later part of the morning, break to hotel after lunch, grab CS dinner at hotel or in park depending on the mood. Sure I made plans at 180 & 60 days, but I can't do a last minute trip unless I want to pay $$$ for 4 airline tickets.

Well, that will work as well, however, making ADR's even if it is for the park you are planning to be in, forces you to actually show up in that park. FP's are a flexible option for me, but, eating is not. If it's raining, I may just decide to stay away completely. That means that I have to either ignore ADR's and pay a fee for anyplace worthy of going too or spend my time canceling the ADR's in enough advance time to avoid the charge.

It's a help that I usually do not go for over 3 or 4 days at a time, but, this last time I decided to make those FP reservations and ADR's (only 2) and somewhat plan what parks I was going to be in and when. I did that mostly because I had been listening to so much trash talk about how awful the MM+ system was that I wanted to try it out for myself to see what was just so much bull or fact.

My first morning was planned for DHS. (I wanted to witness some of the demolition of the BAH) I got my 3 FP's for the morning (bear in mind that I did this just 9 days out) I got ToT, TSMM and Star Tours. Either between the times or after I went to all the attractions and shows that were of interest to me. I then took the boat from DHS to Epcot, had lunch and worked my way around the lagoon arriving at China for my first ADR. Had dinner and continued around the lagoon before catching the boat back to DHS to get my car.

The next day I started at Epcot in the morning. I went on every attraction there up until around 3 when I left for a break. I had FP's for Soarin, Spaceship Earth and Mission Space (didn't really need them for the last two), had lunch and continued to go to the attractions, TT, The Seas and The Land and Ellen and one more spin on SSE. I left for a break about 3pm and rested the old bones and then had dinner at Golden Corral before heading to MK. While waiting for the parking Tram to start moving I glanced over to the right and watched the latest space launch from Kennedy Space Center. Upon arriving at MK I went immediately to the kiosk to attempt, unsuccessfully, to get a FP for 7DMT. I wasn't surprised to find that it was booked, so I just did a few other attractions and as soon as the Electric Light Parade started I headed over to 7DMT and without a FP I entered the line and less then 30 minutes later I was on my way out of the attraction having experienced it without jumping through hoops.

On the third day, I started at MK. Got FP's for Peter Pan, PoTC and Haunted Mansion. I also had a luncheon ADR at Liberty Tavern. Did them all and others and again left just after the 3pm parade and rested up a touch had dinner at Red Lobster and went back to MK for the Evening. I then just casually wandered around hitting the attractions that I missed earlier, plus repeated some of my favorites and left just before the Fireworks. (I'm not a big fan of Fireworks or Parades to that helps with the must do selection.)

Bottom line... everything worked exactly as it should have. No glitches, no lost reservations, just totally clockwork. Everything that was supposed to happen did with no flaws at all. Me thinks that some of the problems are cause by the guests and not the system. If you know ahead of time exactly what you want it is considerably easier and with very few, if any, problems and dangerous changes. I also figured out that I could have done everything I ended up doing without a FP. It might have involved a slightly longer wait time, but, in most cases not that much more.

 

[Austintatious]

I just don't think these kinds of things can be so simplified as to say that those who go to wdw frequently won't wait in the lines because they have ridden them so many times and those who go less frequently will feel like those lines are nothing because they haven't ridden it at all, or in a very long time. There's lots of reasons why people choose not to wait in lines longer than [insert chosen time here]. There's no reason, imo, to make it out to be so black and white.

There certainly are, with literally volumes of studies on queuing science for those with plenty of spare time on their hands and Google. Are more frequent visitors less tolerant of wait times? Perhaps, due to their experience with attractions and a refined sense of how long something is "worth" waiting for. And if that's true then Disney has a huge problem on their hands because more and more guests become returning, experienced guests every day.

But a more complex cause could have to do with generational differences. The younger the subject, the shorter their tolerance for waiting. It's why texting is the preferred method of communication over email and voice mail for Millenniums. They just aren't willing to wait in very long lines for anything. Except the next iPhone. That they use for texting.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think this is true for *some* infrequent visitors. I don't think it is true for all. My brother would fit your description of not waiting 20-30 mins in line. He hates crowds and lines. He is *not* a frequent Disney goer. He has been to Disney once as an adult, on our extended family trip in 2013. The last time he'd been at wdw before that was a trip as children in 1995. He doesn't go to 6 flags either. I couldn't even tell you when the last time he went there was. He isn't an amusement park kind of person in general...doesn't matter which park it is.

And yet he did take his kids to Disney, and he did have a great time (in large part b/c we did not wait in lines longer than 20-30 mins, even though it was spring break season).

ETA: I can probably say with a decent amount of certainty that when we take DD to DLR in November I won't wait in a 40+min SB line for a headliner. Why? Not because I've been too frequently and don't think the ride is worth the wait, but because if it's just DH, DD and I, that means spending 40+ mins apart as a family, since DD isn't tall enough for headliners. So, it'll be 20-(maybe) 30 min waits or a FP (using in conjunction with RS for the other parent) - or we won't be riding at all. Our next visit to WDW with her will be similar. Has nothing to do with anything other than it's a family vacation, and we prefer not to split up the family for such long periods.
---END ETA---

I just don't think these kinds of things can be so simplified as to say that those who go to wdw frequently won't wait in the lines because they have ridden them so many times and those who go less frequently will feel like those lines are nothing because they haven't ridden it at all, or in a very long time. There's lots of reasons why people choose not to wait in lines longer than [insert chosen time here]. There's no reason, imo, to make it out to be so black and white.

To me it seems Wisblue was refering to infrequent visitors who experience similar venues elsewhere as the example he cited of the family he meant demonstrated. If one is used to waiting elsewhere, Disney won't seem so bad. If one hates lines anywhere, then sure, they will not like waiting at Disney. But I don't think WIS was claiming that all visitors would or that there were no exceptions.

I hear you on rider swaps. Much easier to swap when one has a Fastpass for a ride. The idea of waiting in the entire line when you have only one child or even two is a bit unsettling. I have older kids now, so it isn't so bad. I or DH welcome the break to spend time with the small fry who has to wait behind.

 

[jthornton94]

It's fine to go with no plan, if you are the type to go with the flow and have no expectations of what you want to to; just being at Disney makes the trip successful. My issue comes with people like my brother. He didn't want to listen to any advice I gave him and in most areas did the exact opposite. The problem then became his endless complaining that happened due to his lack of planning. What do you mean I can't just walk into any restaurant I want and eat(told him to pick one or two and make ADR's), there were almost no thrill rides(maybe you should have looked at the attractions listed in the guidebook I lent you), it was hot and crowded(well, duh, it was Disney in July). Now, he goes around telling everyone how horrible Disney is, when it was his own fault, for either not lowering his expectations or increasing his planning.

I plan casually, more than most non-DISsers and less than most DISsers. I have my ADRs made and my fast passes made. I know which parks on what days. The only day I have really planned out this trip is HS because it's Star Wars weekend and I have a lot to cram in. But, we go abo

 

[ArwenMarie]

I've started changing the advice I give. Now instead of just starting to give out whatever info I think they need, I ask them some basic questions first. I get a feel for what kind of vacation experience they are looking for and tailor my response to fit the responses they're giving me. I do always suggest they get the Unofficial Guide, and take a look at a calendar of crowds like TP or EasyWDW, but outside of that I try to tailor what I say so they don't get overwhelmed. IME, a couple minutes o conversation is just not enough to truly advise someone, but it is enough to overwhelm them. And I always tell them I'm happy to answer other questions as they plan, or to help them plan (if I can, time wise). I try to give just enough to help them get started, but not so much that they stop before they start because it's TMI all at once.

I agree, book recommendations are always a good way to give advice.

 

[wisblue]

There certainly are, with literally volumes of studies on queuing science for those with plenty of spare time on their hands and Google. Are more frequent visitors less tolerant of wait times? Perhaps, due to their experience with attractions and a refined sense of how long something is "worth" waiting for. And if that's true then Disney has a huge problem on their hands because more and more guests become returning, experienced guests every day.

But a more complex cause could have to do with generational differences. The younger the subject, the shorter their tolerance for waiting. It's why texting is the preferred method of communication over email and voice mail for Millenniums. They just aren't willing to wait in very long lines for anything. Except the next iPhone. That they use for texting.

Well, I certainly didn't mean to say that EVERY infrequent visitor is more willing to wait in lines than EVERY frequent visitor. But, I don't think that there is any question that a vast majority of people are willing to wait longer to do something for the first time than for something they have done before, and especially for something that they have done many times before. Using myself as an example, I waited 90 minutes last summer in a line that had a posted wait time of 150 minutes for my first ride on Escape from Gringotts because I had no idea when I would be there again. I can guarantee you that I won't wait that long for that ride again.

If we are going to question generalized statements, I think yours is very questionable, especially when applied to theme park attractions.

While I was waiting in that line for Gringotts, I was accompanied by my adult daughter who had waited almost 5 hours (enduring frequent breakdowns) to ride the same ride on its opening day. When I look at the long standby lines for roller coasters (at Disney or Universal or Six Flags), or pictures with characters like Hiro and Baymax, I see a lot more young people than older ones. A lot of them seem to be members of youth groups who use the time to hang with their friends and, yes, do a lot of texting and playing with their smartphones. Their ability to multitask makes the waiting more tolerable for them.

I also don't think Disney has a huge problem with returning, experienced guests because, while those guests may have less tolerance for waiting for things they have done before, they also learn how they can avoid those lines for things they want to do.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I will wait for a new ride. I waited 45 minutes for the Mine Train because we couldn't get a FP. It was fine for the first ride, but I wouldn't wait that long for that particular ride again (even though it is very cute).

 

[Angel Ariel]

To me it seems Wisblue was refering to infrequent visitors who experience similar venues elsewhere as the example he cited of the family he meant demonstrated. If one is used to waiting elsewhere, Disney won't seem so bad. If one hates lines anywhere, then sure, they will not like waiting at Disney. But I don't think WIS was claiming that all visitors would or that there were no exceptions.

I hear you on rider swaps. Much easier to swap when one has a Fastpass for a ride. The idea of waiting in the entire line when you have only one child or even two is a bit unsettling. I have older kids now, so it isn't so bad. I or DH welcome the break to spend time with the small fry who has to wait behind.

All I was saying is that I believe there are a multitude of reasons as to why people- both infrequent visitors AND frequent visitors - have limits to how long they'll wait in a line. For me, personally, how long I'm willing to wait has nothing to do with how frequently I've been to WDW or DLR. I'm sure others have their own reasons as well.

 

[goofyernmost]

All I was saying is that I believe there are a multitude of reasons as to why people- both infrequent visitors AND frequent visitors - have limits to how long they'll wait in a line. For me, personally, how long I'm willing to wait has nothing to do with how frequently I've been to WDW or DLR. I'm sure others have their own reasons as well.

See, that was what was so cool about the pre-Fastpass days. If you wanted to experience any of the attractions you stood in line. If your patience wasn't controlled enough to do that then you missed out on just about everything. I'm not saying they were as long as they are now, but, 30 to 45 minutes was not all that unusual. We did it, we loved the place and returned over and over and got in the lines again. Then along came FP and all of a sudden the lines were an hour or more. That was sure some great improvement for the happiness of the majority of the crowd.

 

[Angel Ariel]

See, that was what was so cool about the pre-Fastpass days. If you wanted to experience any of the attractions you stood in line. If your patience wasn't controlled enough to do that then you missed out on just about everything. I'm not saying they were as long as they are now, but, 30 to 45 minutes was not all that unusual. We did it, we loved the place and returned over and over and got in the lines again. Then along came FP and all of a sudden the lines were an hour or more. That was sure some great improvement for the happiness of the majority of the crowd.

I just want to clarify - patience has very little to do with our current personal reasons. We have waited in 2-3 hr lines before, and I'm sure we will again.

 

[WillAustin]

All I was saying is that I believe there are a multitude of reasons as to why people- both infrequent visitors AND frequent visitors - have limits to how long they'll wait in a line. For me, personally, how long I'm willing to wait has nothing to do with how frequently I've been to WDW or DLR. I'm sure others have their own reasons as well.

We usually make the personal decision based on how we'd best like to spend that time. No ride is worth a 90 minute wait for us, or our kids, even on our first trip, and I have some of the most patient, well-behaved children I've seen.