There and Back Again - a couple's first journey to Disney World

[Richard M Nixon]

This is a story of a young couple's first ever trip to the magical land of Disney.

Well, the trip won't take place until April 2015, so it's more of a lengthy teaser trailer for a movie that's been released way too far in advance, so you won't really care when it finally comes out.

We'll follow their journey spending far too long planning, planning, reading, planning, studying, planning, and posting erratically. Sometimes working, but posting and planning while at work.



Index

1. Introduction & Prologue - it's this post!
2. The game is afoot! - Travel window and resort selection
3. Planning for the Parks - I have to book how many days in advance?? - pre-trip planning, flights, rental cars
4. Meal Time, all the Time - Making all the ADRs!
5. A Day in the World. Or Two. Okay, Eight. - Parks, tours, spreadsheets
6. Can you pass the FastPass (plus) please? - FP+ reservations

Cast of Characters:

- Brian (yours truly, presidential trip planning mastermind). 25, software analyst, burns easily in the sun

- Kim (beloved girlfriend). 35, psychologist, thinks I'm spending way too much money on this trip.

&

- Kaya and Sophie (not appearing in this film) - 11 & 8, sleeps a lot, poops in the house. Dogs, not children, though the lines are sometimes blurred.



Prologue - The seed is planted
Kim and I were sitting back one night this past April, our first anniversary just a few weeks behind us. We started discussing our dreams for vacationing to far off places together. I've just recently graduated college and she is finishing her postdoc residency, so our few trips so far have been smaller affairs. Sure, we've hit up a few towns, gone to renaissance fairs, and had breaks from the everyday, but we haven't travelled as a couple yet. We started listing the places we'd like to see. I want to visit Asia, she wants to see Italy. She wants to visit vineyards in Napa, I want to go skiing in Colorado. I don't know how it came up, but we both mentioned Disney world.

As it turns out, neither of us has ever visited a Disney park before. Well, hey, we're adults now, we have adult jobs and disposable income, why don't we remedy this? We agreed that it'd be a fun place to go. We went on with our night. Well, Kim did. My head was already spinning with possibilities. I'm a planner, I love planning trips more than I probably enjoy taking them. I was determined to get this wheel in motion.

Over the next few weeks, I started exploring the options. How can we turn Disney World into a vacation? Can we pass through on the way to a beach? I know Florida has some nice beaches. Well, it turns out that WDW is in the middle of a bunch of land, so that's right out. Okay, so can we make it a trip in itself? Apparently, yes, we can. What can we do there? How many parks are there? Is it even fun for adults?

So I planned, I created spreadsheets, I priced resorts, I graphed the price of rooms, I checked crowd levels and historical weather. I read vacation reports, explored attraction options. I built up a 7 tab spreadsheet full of figures, graphs, plots, diagrams, and dreams. Mainly, dreams. Also, numbers. Finally, I brought the workbook to Kim. "Lovey," I said "remember when we talked about visiting Disney? Well, I've been doing some thinking...." I think I surprised her with how much thought I'd been giving the trip. I want to be a project manager (and I've played a lot of Eve online) so I have no fear of big spreadsheets.

I presented my thoughts and my dear girl agreed that yes, there is indeed a good potential for fun on this trip I've drawn up. Now, we begin the planning. First, we have to decide when to go...

(to be continued)

 

[Richard M Nixon]

The game is afoot!

We've decided that our first 'big vacation' will be to WDW, so, when do we go? She hates the cold and gets very cranky when it's below 70, so any time after August is right out. For now. Summer would be terrible, because Florida. April is a beautiful time of year, plus it's our anniversary month and my birthday, so I think we're all good. Easter is early on in the month, so crowd calendars are predicting middle-of-the-road for the last few weeks. The weather seems ideal, and it's one of the lowest rainfall months for Florida. I like it. Kim likes it. I think we have something here.

So, where do we start on the planning? There's a lot to coordinate here. Well, we know when we'd like to go, so I guess we need to decide where we're actually going. It's time to select a resort.

We looked at the offerings Disney had and were surprised at just how many resorts are at WDW. We know we want to stay on-property, but how do we decide which one? It'll be easier if we can narrow it down to a few, which Disney helped by grouping them by price range. We aren't going to spend that much time in our room, but it's still nice to have somewhere that looks good, feels good, and has a great view, and it's our first vacation and we'll be celebrating, so let's live a little. Value resorts are right out. We're not food court kind of people, and they just don't have the right feel for us. No balconies is a big minus as well. The moderates and deluxes are a bit harder to separate.

I'll say it right now, I loved the Contemporary the second I saw it. I know, it's the least Disney-fied of all the resorts, but I just love the modern sleep theming. I know Kim would appreciate the Grand Floridian and maybe the Port Orleans or Beach Club properties. She'd probably love the Animal Kingdom offerings too, but that's a bit too outdoor themed for my tastes, so we'll just leave those out. Also, they're located far from the good stuff.

We're comparing the moderates and deluxes and agree that there's a whole lot more going for the deluxe than anything else. Kim has some concerns about the price, and while it's a vacation and I don't have such strong objections, I do see here point that we're paying a lot for something we're not going to use that much. Good thing she didn't see my spreadsheets when I considered club level. I think she'd have been out completely at that point.

I've spent some time on the disboards at this point and I've been looking at the Deluxe Villas a bit. I saw them for rent with cash, but I was coming across the concept of point rentals, and I was intrigued. We could get a slightly less fancy version of a deluxe resort while keeping the view and amenities for half the price. Sounds like something we could both agree on.

We plan to spend 2 or 3 days in the Magic Kingdom, so the Monorail track resorts appealed greatly, so our two big contenders were Bay Lake Tower and Villas at Grand Floridian. We also considered the Beach Club and Boardwalk villas. The latter two were kinda neat looking on the inside and are close to Epcot, but the nighttime views seemed a little lackluster and, frankly, they didn't seem as cool as BLT or VGF. So it's down to those two. VGF has the fancy ambiance going for it but lacks the great view of BLT. BLT has walking access to the Magic Kingdom and also quick access to watersports. I felt more strongly about the feel of BLT, and (to my surprise) Kim thought they looked better than VGF, so we were sold. However, we would need to rent DVC points if we wanted this to happen.

Renting points

I tried the two "big name" rental agencies and neither one of them had any BLT home resort owners willing to rent. Damn. Mid April isn't the busiest time of year, but it's still busy and the boards instilled in me a great fear of losing out on anything by waiting too long. I wanted those 11 month home reservations. So, I turned to the disboards and *********** to find a source of points. Apparently BLT is in high demand and there are not a lot of people renting out their points, so things looked bleak. I watched the Rent/Trade board for about two weeks and messaged anyone who had BLT points for rent. I got a few responses, but either I took to long sealing the deal or they just didn't like me and the conversations would eventually just stop.

Maybe it was me, I don't know. I'm wary of trusting strangers on the Internet with a few grand and control over a big part of my trip. I asked for references, wrote up a contract, checked my credit card chargeback policies, examined trip insurance. I will risk nothing to chance. Finally, I was put in touch with someone via these boards and we started discussing business. I received four references, two of which responded to my inquiry. I checked out all four in advance and found Internet histories for all of them, some of which had a presence going back over 10 years. It's amazing what you can find about someone with a little bit of e-detective work. Of the two that responded, one was a quick in-line response to the questions I asked (they said they were at WDW currently) and the other was several dense paragraphs about how much they trusted my potential rentee. I looked deeper at the person who sent the positive reference to establish their identity and look for links between them and the rentee (to avoid a friend helping them scam me). Everything checked out, so I worked with the rentee to fill our our agreement.

I did the same due diligence on the DVC member that I did on the referrals and worked on developing my trust. There was a lot of trust to develop for both Kim and myself. It's hard to let go and hope that some stranger isn't going to screw us over. We finally found ourselves in a good place and went forward with filling out all the details. All that was left was the date

Choosing a date

We know we want mid-April, because that's where our anniversary falls. Late April is my birthday and would be kind of nice, but I don't have nearly the emotional investment in that as I do our anniversary. I want us to leave on a Saturday night to grab cheaper evening flights and spend the first night at a cheapo off-site hotel just for a bed, and we'd check in the next day. So, we chose Sunday, April 12, 2015 as our check-in date. Whew! That's half the battle. Now, when do we check out. To figure that out, we need to do some math. I figure we need 2-3 days for the Magic Kingdom, 1-2 days for Epcot, 1 day each for Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios (remember, no kids means we're skipping some attractions and we can have longer hours), and two days for resting and side-attractions like tours, boardwalk, downtown, whatever. Giving a half day to 'finish up' the first two big parks would give us 2.5+1.5+1+1+2 = 8 full days in the parks (including arrival day and excluding check-out day). So we'll leave on Monday, April 20.

There it is! We selected our dates. 8 nights, 9 days in mid-April. We'll even be in the World for our anniversary. I'm feeling good. We got in touch with our DVC rentee and finalized the contract. Within 6 hours of sending over payment, they gave me the confirmation number. I was so nervous putting it in to My Disney Experience, hoping it would plug in and I wasn't about to find myself dealing with scams. Sure enough, MDE took my confirmation and told me I was being welcomed to Bay Lake Towers for April 12-20, 2015. I was thrilled. We've secured our dates, gotten our room booked, and we now have a firm commitment on our first big vacation as a couple, and our first trip to Walt Disney World.

With that in order, we can start building our schedule...

(to be continued)

 

[Richard M Nixon]

Planning for the Parks - I have to book how many days in advance??

Our trip is nearing two months away and I've been busy finalizing our schedule. After watching and cringing at airfare prices for months, Jetblue finally released their fares for early 2015 and I found that not only are they cheap, but also offer direct flights from Austin to Orlando! That cuts down on some of the most annoying parts of travelling - the airport layovers. Unfortunately, they only offer one flight a day, so if I want to make the most of my first day in the World, we'll have to arrive the day before, which is exactly what I ended up booking. Now we'll be leaving for our journey on April 11! This means that I'll need to find us accommodations for our pre-night in Orlando! Luckily, hotels.com came through and I found a room at Maingate Hotel & Spa for $40 including tax. The hotel is 5 miles away from World Dr. so our first day is a quick jaunt on the highway and into the parks, which couldn't be any easier without staying on property (which I considered, but I'd rather save a few bucks that I can spend on souvenirs!)

I had an ongoing dilemma when considering internal transportation. Do I try to deal with buses and monorails, plan for a cab each day I need one, or rent a car? Flexibility and timeliness are of the highest importance to me, so internal transit is right out. Thanks to us staying on the monorail track, we have easy access to the Magic Kingdom and Epcot, so we only need transit to/from the airport, Animal Kingdom, Hollywood Studios, and Downtown Disney. Since control of our schedule is so important, the Magical Express won't cut it either, so I'm already looking at $120 or more for two-way transit MCO to WDW and back. Thanks to the DISboards and other travel forums, I worked a rental car down to $230 for the 11th-20th, if I can wrangle $110 in savings from the car. If we plan on three days away from monorail parks and $20 one-way for fare and tip, we'd be at $20x3x2 = $120 for fares. Parking is free thanks to our resort stay, so that $10 difference (plus gas costs and tolls, so I'll call it $40 difference) is what we can consider a convenience fee. I like that deal, and it enables the highest level of flexibility and convenience. Assuming, of course, that WDW is easy to navigate, but I've been studying the maps so I'm going to be well-prepared.

 

[Richard M Nixon]

Meal Time, all the Time

As we drew nearer and nearer the 180 day ADR date, I was in a frenzy of planning. I had a list of restaurants I wanted us to experience, but not nearly enough time to fit them all in! The theme of our vacation is ~signature eateries~. I was fitting in as many of the signatures as I could. Not because of the DDP (we're not getting it) but because the trip is already a combination of celebrations plus our first time, so I'm going to make sure it's done right. This resulted in two, sometimes thee signatures at the top of my list for each day, which I knew just wouldn't work time-wise. I already knew what parks I wanted to do - two days at MK and EP and one day at AK and DHS, with a rest day for DTD. That gave me my available time slots. Epcot was the hardest to plan for, as there were so many good restaurants and not enough time to try them all. Then I had to consider the offerings of the resorts and my trip kept feeling smaller and smaller. Oh well, no allowances for extra days would be made, so I needed us to make decisions on eateries, and soon.

I was browsing every dining site I could find. Reviews on tripadvisor, touringplans, the DIS, everywhere. Slowly but surely, the list was whittled down. First to go were most of the buffets (so crowded), then the lower-end TS joints. After we had our list of top-tier establishments, we took the realistic approach. I'm fine with having to leave the Magic Kingdom to go to the Grand Floridian for dinner, but I'm not as keen as going down to the Swan. We needed to keep our dining contained to the area we are going to be in as much as possible. Eventually, our list was of the proper length as ADR day came around. I was up at 5am CST to make the reservations - and got nothing. The online booking system was totally hosed all morning and I was not pleased. I called up on my drive to work and was told that the system was unavailable for phone reps as well. So I called back. Again and again. Finally, as I was heading home, I was told the system was working. I spent my entire commute home (almost an hour!) on the phone, reading dates and times and waiting for my confirmation. I made so many ADRs (25, I think) that I had to pause after every 5 for them to be booked to make sure I didn't lose any of them, which resulted in giving all my booking info and hearing the terms of booking every single time. It was awful, but finally done. Except for one booking...

Victoria and Albert's - Ever since I found out about V&A's, I had my heart set on it. I wanted that decadent meal, the service, the atmosphere. If that wasn't enough to draw me in, I discovered the Chef's Table. Something so rare and coveted appealed to me so completely. I knew I must have it.

I had heard horror stories about the Disney web infrastructure, but it had worked so far in my planning so I thought everyone else was either unlucky or doing something wrong. Oh no. I was the wrong one. I woke up 10 minutes before 6am EDT to sit down, check my spreadsheets, and begin mashing F5 on the V&A reservation page. 6am rolled around and, like perfect clockwork, my calendar suddenly showed my +10 days, and what luck, there were 3 days with Chef's Table spots! When I would click one of the times, it'd redirect back to the restaurant page. I tried for a few other restaurants and dates, and every single one would just loop in circles, never letting me make a reservation.

I went to bed after half an hour of trying, tossing and turning with frustration. When I woke back up, I tried once more. Not only were the sites still failing, but I no longer saw any reservations for the V&A CT. How depressing. I waited until V&A opened their phone lines and started calling. When they opened, it was confirmed that all the chef tables were filled up for my stay, so I got waitlisted. I knew that if the damn website had worked, I'd have my precious reservation and I was so bummed.

Hours later, to my surprise, I received a surprising phone call before lunch. V&A called to let me know they had a surprise cancellation for the Chef's Table, so I jumped right on it and got a booking! The entire trip is going to be a magical experience, but I know that our night at V&A's Chef's Table is going to be a vacation in itself, and I simply cannot wait to try it and come back with pictures for the DIS!

After all that work, I had my reservations. I've made a few changes as time passed, most notably cancelling many of my lunchtime reservations and a few breakfasts, after lots of input from the DIS suggesting that I might not have as much park time if I do that many lengthy meals.

This is what I've come up with:

4/11 (arrival night) - California Grill. I'm cutting this very close to our plane landing, so I may end up eating McDonalds instead (and a cancelled ADR fee)
4/12 (Animal Kingdom) - Tusker House (breakfast)
4/12 (Animal Kingdom) - Jiko (dinner)
4/13 (Magic Kingdom) - Wave (breakfast)
4/13 (Magic Kingdom) - Be Our Guest (lunch)
4/13 (Magic Kingdom) - Be Our Guest (dinner)
4/13 (Magic Kingdom) - Wishes Dessert Party
4/14 (Hollywood Studios) - 50s Primetime (lunch)
4/14 (Hollywood Studios) - Hollywood Brown Derby (dinner, F! package)
4/15 (Downtown Disney) - Kona Cafe (breakfast)
4/15 (Downtown Disney) - Bongos (lunch)
4/15 (Downtown Disney) - Bluezoo (dinner following La Nouba)
4/16 (Epcot) - Grand Floridian Cafe (breakfast)
4/16 (Epcot) - Chefs de France (dinner)
4/17 (Epcot) - Wave (breakfast)
4/17 (Epcot) - Via Napoli (lunch)
4/17 (Epcot) - Monsieur Paul (dinner)
4/18 (Magic Kingdom) - Crystal Palace (breakfast)
4/18 (Magic Kingdom) - Victoria and Albert's Chef's Table (dinner)
4/19 (Magic Kingdom) - Citricos (dinner)
4/20 (departure) - Fresh Mediterranean Market (breakfast)

Days where I haven't listed breakfast or lunch are going to be quick service

Looks delicious, mhmmmm.

 

[Richard M Nixon]

A Day in the World. Or Two. Okay, Eight.

Alongside doing ADR planning, we needed to finalize park days. I've known for a while how we wanted to budget park times, but picking out the days was tough. I'd read on the boards that it's best to avoid parks with EMH hours so I tried to plan around that as best I could. Animal Kingdom had a combo of EMH morning and staying open an hour later (I don't know why, it wasn't EMH) on the first day of our trip, so I had to pick AK at the first park. It wasn't exactly how I imagined the trip starting, but it's a nice teaser of Disney while also ensuring we get those extra hours to explore. Of course, we have to hit the Magic Kingdom ASAP, so it naturally falls into day two. MK is so big that I'm dividing it up into lands, and that first day is marked off for Main Street and Fantasyland plus the nighttime shows. Epcot is tied with MK for my most anticipated park so I once again wanted to build anticipation by delaying visiting, so day 3 is going to be Hollywood Studios. I planned on a rest day partway through the trip, so day 4 is a casual walk through Downtown Disney. Finally, we'll tour Epcot, starting with the World Showcase on day 5 and Future World on day 6. Magic Kingdom once again caps off our tour of the world with half-days on day 7 and 8.

Overall, crowd levels and temperatures look decent enough for our chosen parks. Late December had the crowd levels adjusted in Touringplans, jumping from a 3-4 to a 5-6 which disappointed me, but oh well...


(crowd levels - click for big)

Finally, park selection and ADRs were completed and I had only the little touches left to do. Namely, side entertainment. To start, I knew that our rest day at DTD needed an easy start and the mini-golf at Fantasia enticed me with both its whimsical course and the actual miniature golf course, so it found its way into our morning schedule for DTD after a nice breakfast at Kona. Since we were going to DTD, we of course had to see La Nouba. I've never been to a Cirque show before, and Kim has been to several, so we're both excited for different reasons. We picked out two seats dead center in the 'golden circle', which I can only hope means we'll have a good view of the show.

Disney is magical and exciting, but we're both adults with a keen interest in the workings of things, so we wanted to take a chance to peel back the veil and look at the inner workings with some of the cool tours that Disney has to offer. Our second day in epcot will start off with a Behind the Seeds tour to check out the gardens at the Land, which had Kim very excited. I only recently learned that because we're there for Flower and Garden, there will be a special Gardens of the World tour available to check out all the topiaries around the park. I'm waiting for booking to open so that I can slot it in on our first day in Epcot before the World Showcase opens. Finally, our last day in the Magic Kingdom will begin with a Keys to the Kingdom tour (which narrowly won out over the Behind the Magic tour, but we really want more time in the Kingdom so we're opting for the slightly shorter tour).

All in all, we're now set up for a very busy and exciting time at WDW this April. I've been building, evaluating, and re-building our schedule in a way-too-detailed Excel workbook. I'm somewhat proud of my nerdy achievement and I plan on brining a copy with to pin up in our room to keep us on schedule each day. I've got about 10 sheets of info, but the most visually appealing and heavily used section is our daily schedule, now almost completely finalized:


(planning spreadsheet - click for big)

I'm loving all the planning that Disney is allowing me to do and I'm driving Kim nuts with my near daily report on what I've learned or planned. I hope the actual trip is as exciting...

As we move towards out 60-day FP+ reservation window I am diving deeper into planning by setting out our daily park schedule on touringplans. I'm setting up to-the-minute steps to make sure we get the most out of our time in the park and identify the critical FPs to reserve. Once that window has passed, I'll have even more words to share every detail of thought that went into each day in the parks.

 

[hollyrose]

Just when I thought I was the most OCD-spreadsheet Disney trip planner to have ever lived.....I see that you reign supreme! LOL. I love all your planning- I did the same thing and it was soooo worth it!!!

 

[Richard M Nixon]

All the forms and colored boxes make me feel like I'm really endeavoring to make the trip perfect.

 

[skier_pete]

My head was already spinning with possibilities. I'm a planner, I love planning trips more than I probably enjoy taking them.

One of US! One of US!

Yeah, I'm this guy too. Warning, Disney is very addictive to this kind of personality.

Also a piece of advice I give out frequently:
The #1 Rookie mistake is to not have a plan. The #2 Rookie mistake is to overplan everything. You cannot possibly see everything, so don't try.

For instance - and this is just one man's opinion but realize I am trying to be helpful - you have WAY to many ADRs. Eating 2 or 3 sit-down meals every day is too much. Each one takes 2-3 hours of your day (depending on getting to the location) and so you can end up spending 6-9 hours or more on dining. I know it's hard to not want to eat at every one of the restaurants, but I think at the end you may find you missed out on time in the park and feel like all you did was spend time eating and going somewhere else to eat. And in addition, you will be constantly walking around stuffed with food. This may be fun for a few days, but you may eventually get to the point where you are sick of eating. (I find this happens to me even with one sit-down meal a day.)

Late April is a wonderful time to go, but I would also recommend mid- to late-October for your weather criteria. Food and Wine is the best "Adults" offering Disney has, though they are sort of turning F&G into F&W-lite. Just something to think about for that future trip.

We booked DVC rentals through someone on the DIS back in 2010, and went through the same stress as you did. Your problem with finding points at > 11 months out is more about people ready to give up their points that far in advance versus their being folks from BLT renting points. However, being a newer resort that would also factor a bit.

We've since become DVC owners. Just an FYI much of the year, BLT is VERY gettable at the 7-month mark with any-old points for the "Lake View" rooms. I am developing booking spreadsheets for all the DVC (see that planning gene in action) and observed that mid- to late-April was fully open at the 7-month mark this year. Pretty much early-Jan to mid-Sept this is the case, with a few exceptions at certain times (Marathon weekends and holidays). However, seeing as you considered it a "must do" putting the 11-month rental out there probably still made sense, as there are no guarantees.

Take care - looking forward to hearing how it goes. The first trip is always a special one!

 

[Richard M Nixon]

One of US! One of US!

Yeah, I'm this guy too. Warning, Disney is very addictive to this kind of personality.

Also a piece of advice I give out frequently:
The #1 Rookie mistake is to not have a plan. The #2 Rookie mistake is to overplan everything. You cannot possibly see everything, so don't try.

For instance - and this is just one man's opinion but realize I am trying to be helpful - you have WAY to many ADRs. Eating 2 or 3 sit-down meals every day is too much. Each one takes 2-3 hours of your day (depending on getting to the location) and so you can end up spending 6-9 hours or more on dining. I know it's hard to not want to eat at every one of the restaurants, but I think at the end you may find you missed out on time in the park and feel like all you did was spend time eating and going somewhere else to eat. And in addition, you will be constantly walking around stuffed with food. This may be fun for a few days, but you may eventually get to the point where you are sick of eating. (I find this happens to me even with one sit-down meal a day.)

Late April is a wonderful time to go, but I would also recommend mid- to late-October for your weather criteria. Food and Wine is the best "Adults" offering Disney has, though they are sort of turning F&G into F&W-lite. Just something to think about for that future trip.

We booked DVC rentals through someone on the DIS back in 2010, and went through the same stress as you did. Your problem with finding points at > 11 months out is more about people ready to give up their points that far in advance versus their being folks from BLT renting points. However, being a newer resort that would also factor a bit.

We've since become DVC owners. Just an FYI much of the year, BLT is VERY gettable at the 7-month mark with any-old points for the "Lake View" rooms. I am developing booking spreadsheets for all the DVC (see that planning gene in action) and observed that mid- to late-April was fully open at the 7-month mark this year. Pretty much early-Jan to mid-Sept this is the case, with a few exceptions at certain times (Marathon weekends and holidays). However, seeing as you considered it a "must do" putting the 11-month rental out there probably still made sense, as there are no guarantees.

Take care - looking forward to hearing how it goes. The first trip is always a special one!

The food is a tough one. We're certainly trying for the more 'upscale' type of trip, so good food is a non-negotiable. I had no idea how much time to budget for dining while making my plans. I ended up allotting 75 minutes for dinner time and 45 minutes for breakfast/lunch, plus 15 for transit and 15 to wait. I know that a slow meal may throw off my schedule, so I've tried to add some padding to each park day in case of times like this (or if Kim decides to window shop for an hour, which is totally okay and I love her for doing it). I originally had way more than I do now, with 3 TS a day on some days. I did try my best to keep restaurants inside the park and make my ride plans so that we'll be working towards the restaurant we'll be dining at next, with the only exceptions being either Jiko after AK closes or the two dinners after MK days, but those days are intended to be short days with only a few hours in the parks. Of course, I know I'm being stubborn with my desire to hold on to the amount of restaurants and I may end up cancelling some ADRs later in the trip after I get a feel for what park timings really are like, and I really appreciate the input to help manage my expectations and be more accepting of change, if it comes.

April is going to be such an awesome time of year. I'm hoping the weather and crowds are just right, and F&G is going to make Epcot delicious and beautiful. I wanted to do F&W but when we started planning last year it would have been to soon, and F&W this year would have been too long to wait! I figure if we like our first trip, we'll plan on another trip either late this year or next year for F&W.

I think the DVC is going to be a good trial run of what the good resorts will be like. I can't honestly say we're going to get any value out of BLT's quality as we're out and about so much. The only thing it has going for it during our trip is the MK proximity and monorail loop. Perhaps we'll go lower end on a future trip, or perhaps not!

Eagerly awaiting FP+ day...

 

[skier_pete]

The food is a tough one. We're certainly trying for the more 'upscale' type of trip, so good food is a non-negotiable. I had no idea how much time to budget for dining while making my plans. I ended up allotting 75 minutes for dinner time and 45 minutes for breakfast/lunch, plus 15 for transit and 15 to wait.

I don't want to sound too discouraging, but I think you are leaving much too short time on these meals. Many of the restaurants you picked are high end restaurants, they don't work to get you in and out as fast as possible. Can you do 75 minutes? Probably, but only if you just order an entree.

I'll give you an example. In October, we had a 7:40 PM ADR for Yatchsman Steakhouse, with the intention of meeting some friends at Jellyroll's about 9 PM. Knowing this was close, we were only going to order entrees and sides. Our bus was slow getting from SSR to Yatchsman, we arrive about 7:50 PM. We waited about 25 minutes before they seated us. Then it took about 75 minutes for the meal, and we met our friends at 9:40. So while it's possible, that's based on a single course. Add an appetizer or a dessert and another 30 minutes. We ate a Jiko a few years back and had wine, the cheese plate appetizer, dinner and dessert, and were in there well over 2 hours, probably close to 2.5 hours.

Even the standard restaurants are longer than you give them credit. I have a hard-time believing you will be out of 50s prime-time in under 90 minutes, we've been there twice and been there at least that long. We don't even typically get out of the buffets in under 60 minutes, but of course we are usually trying to see all the characters.

Your wait times will vary as well. 15 minutes is a good baseline, but there will be times you wait longer. Chefs De France seems to be one of the worst, we've waited as long as 40 minutes for a table. .

Please consider this when you are making your FP+ especially. The last thing you want to do is pay for a $200 meal and feel rushed to run off to the next thing. Don't plan on things immediately after dining reservations.

I want to tell you the three keys to Disney World that I tell everyone planning a trip:
1) Get to the parks for rope drop. More gets done in the first two hours than the rest of the day.
2) Use Fastpass. This is more obvious now with FP+, but I still consider it important for those rides with the longest of lines!
3) Have a plan, but BE Flexible. Not everything will go as plans. Rides will break down. A parade will cut you off from crossing the park. You'll take a wrong turn driving around property.

Mostly this is to highlight the last one. I get where you are coming from because I've been there. I used to go all out commando, and only through repeat visits learned a better way for us. I say these things because I just don't want to see you stressing out on your trip. It's easy to do when you set a schedule and get in a mode when you have to keep it at all costs. And I say this from a guy that still plans out his time. This from my spreadsheet of our most recent trip:

9:00 AM TSMM @ Rope Drop
9:30 AM RnRC
9:45 AM ToT
10:00 AM Legend of Jack Sparrow
10:30 AM TSMM FP+ ( 10:30 - 11:30 AM)
11:00 AM Animation Academy
11:15 AM Walt Disney - One Man's Dream
11:45 AM B&tB
12:15 PM Lunch
1:30 PM Star Tours FP+ (1:00 - 2:00 PM)

That was the plan --- but we only made it through the first three before it all changed. At that was fine. We did everything we wanted, it just took until 3 PM. This included a totally unplanned 30 minute search for Mickey Bars at 10:30 AM! And when we talk about what we did that day what was the highlight? The search for the Mickey Bar! (Also: Don't try and get a Mickey Bar @ DHS before 11:30 AM.)




Anyways last piece of worthless free advice. I think your ADR at California Grill is really cutting it close. Assuming your flight is on-time, I would say the best you can do is 9:30 at the CG check-in desk. (Which is BTW on the 4th floor, NOT the 14th floor.)

15 minutes from gate to baggage claim (BIG airport)
10 minutes gather bags
10 minutes to get to rental car pickup (BIG airport)
(Assumed no wait for rental car because you have express pick-up, but add 20 minutes here if you don't.)
10 minutes to pack rental car and check car out of parking structure
35 minutes to drive from MCO to Contemporary
10 minutes to park and find check in desk.
= 90 minutes from getting off plane to arriving at CG.

Anyways, you should check to see what happens if you show up significantly late. Will they still honor the ADR? I try to avoid ADRs anywhere near our arrival times. Again: Unnecessary stress!

That's it. I hope you take this in the spirit in which is offered, not as criticism, but to give you the best possible trip!

 

[Disneychix]

Hello! Nice looking 1st trip! Your GF is very lucky

2 things stick out to me:

4/13 is A LOT of food. I'd drop the BOG lunch. You will probably not be able to walk to the dessert party if you eat all that food all day long.

Also, Bluezoo is not in DTD, it's at the Dolphin near EPCOT resorts area.

Remember that if you feel like you will not be wanting to keep one of your ADR's you must cancel the day before or you'll be charged $10/pp for a no show.

 

[Richard M Nixon]

words

Thank you for the firsthand details regarding dining plans. Like I said, it's proving to be one of the harder to plan details of the trip. I've had such a difficult time understanding that reservations aren't so much reservations as they are notifications that I plan to eat at the restaurant and that I shouldn't expect a table on-time...baffling. I have added buffers to each park day in the event that dining runs a bit long, but some of the times you're referencing do trouble me. I enjoy a relaxed meal, but even at a top-tier restaurant I'd be surprised to be sitting for more than 90 minutes, but perhaps that's another park of "Disney time" that I'll have to experience to really understand.

I do have a feeling that after a few days in the World I may be tweaking and adjusting some times and considering either dropping attractions or making dinner a bit shorter. I'm sure I can tell the server to be hasty if it's becoming a problem, but you're right, I do want to make sure that I'm having time to enjoy the meals so it will be a balance. I'm toeing that line between having a pure park experience and seeing as much magic as we can vs making the trip more intimate and focusing on sitting down for long, private moments. I'm probably coming off as somewhat stubborn, which is true, and I find myself saying that I'll find a way to make it work, fully aware that I may not have the experience I'm building in my mind.

To your three points, I've come to see how true they all are when planning a trip to Disney. I'm working on another lengthy writeup of my attraction planning. I'm trying to make very efficient use of FP+ and I've watched my 'time in line' metric drop like a rock as I add them in. I'm hoping to burn through my FP+ by 1:00 or so, then I've got a list of B- or C- level attractions to start scouting the kiosks for and maybe save 10 minute on each one.

I'm really reaching for that Cali Grill reservation and it will require both precise timing and a speedy run through an airport I've never been to before. We're actually considering just shipping luggage or paying for a service to pick it up for us just to save time on waiting. I'm nuts, I know, and I'll probably just eat the no show fee, but I want to try my best. Maybe I'll push it back a bit - Kim is really picky about eating past 7:30, so I'm already pushing an hour past our natural rhythm, but perhaps the air travel will throw her off enough that we can manage!

 

[Richard M Nixon]

Hello! Nice looking 1st trip! Your GF is very lucky

2 things stick out to me:

4/13 is A LOT of food. I'd drop the BOG lunch. You will probably not be able to walk to the dessert party if you eat all that food all day long.

Also, Bluezoo is not in DTD, it's at the Dolphin near EPCOT resorts area.

Remember that if you feel like you will not be wanting to keep one of your ADR's you must cancel the day before or you'll be charged $10/pp for a no show.

Thank you!

4/13 is proving a bit difficult. Every day has a heavy dinner but I'm wanting that BOG for both lunch and dinner so I'm having a hard time fitting it in. I've got 3 days at MK but one of those days is a tour that includes lunch and another has V&A for dinner, so I'm kind of stuck. I'm going to try to make it early, maybe even earlier than I have it now. Wishes is at 9:30 that night so we'll probably show up at the party at 9:00 or a bit before so we're not caught by MSEP. I think we may skip dessert at BOG just to be safe!

For the La Nouba / Bluezoon night, I understand that the show is about 90 minutes long, so I'm trying to budget half an hour to get to our car (I really hope the new parking garage is nice and efficient) and drive to the Swan/Dolphin. We'll use the valet to save some time on the actual parking and I've got a 15 minute buffer on the reservation, so that's a total of 45 minutes to transit. As always, I'm hoping my conservative estimates aren't too conservative...

I've found a big concern of mine when planning dining is the timing. I know there is a 15 minute buffer for arriving late, but arriving early doesn't seem to provide any real benefit. I've been struggling to decide if it's better to cut it close and set an ADR for when I should be arriving with only minimal delay or to schedule an ADR 15-20 minutes after I arrive but risk spending more time sitting and waiting. Oh, the concerns of a Disney planner!

 

[skier_pete]

OK, one more piece of advice. Don't be afraid to leave something for next time.

Because of two things will happen: You won't like it that much and so you won't come back or (more likely) you'll love it and be back again.

We're planning our 11th WDW trip, and I have a policy of 'something new every day' and I've yet to not be able to achieve that. There's plenty of reasons to come back, and leaving some restaurant's on the Table is one of them. (We've eaten at perhaps 50 sit-down restaurants at WDW, and haven't been to many on your list yet. I am seriously considering Monsieur Paul.

 

[Richard M Nixon]

I've heard the podcast team mention that they all have something they haven't done yet and are saving for a special occasion. I thought that was a pretty interesting idea. Luckily, I have a long list of restaurants that were pruned from my initial list and I'm already wanting to see the halloween/xmas parties, F&W, etc. I'm probably blowing a few big ticket items on the first trip (like V&A) but damn it I want to do them now!

We're both eager to get started and start reporting on what this trip feels like once we're actually experiencing it! I hope to bring lots of pictures to the thread to share with everyone.

 

[skier_pete]

We're both eager to get started and start reporting on what this trip feels like once we're actually experiencing it! I hope to bring lots of pictures to the thread to share with everyone.

Very cool! Looking forward to seeing how you like it...you remind me of me when planning my first trip (which I suppose is why I keep giving advice)...except we had no money and we did it on like a $2000 budget for the whole trip. I think you'll be spending more than that on food!

DW and I had such a great time way back when, but actually drove ourselves to exhaustion. We also did all the Disney Parks (3 theme parks + 3 water parks at the time) Universal, NASA, and several nights at Pleasure Island, all in 7 days. We had tickets for the space shuttle launch but you had to be there at 4 AM. That was back when you could get pretty close, they changed launch procotols after 2011. We had our alarms set and woke up and turned it off.

I still was pretty intense for the next few trips, but have mellowed of late. You get to a point where "Oh, I can just see that next time". Still spreadsheet it out, and plan each day, but I try and build in a lot more "just hang out at the hotel" time.

So a bit more advice. You were talking about booking FP+ early so that you can optimize getting more of them. There's two schools of thought on that with FP+, the one you describe and the "use at peak times" theory. I don't have enough experience yet to tell you which was better. (The old FP- "hoard them early, use them later" method beats anything you can do nowadays.) However, I would say scheduling/using FP+ before 10 AM is a waste. At that point you are better off standby, as lines are typically very short. I would say using them earlier at MK is the best place for that to work, since MK doesn't have the tiers. Last time had FP+ windows @ Noon, 1PM, and 2PM, and shortcutted about 200 minutes of Standby line. (We actually had a 4th one we got after getting stranded on Pirates.)

 

[Richard M Nixon]

Very cool! Looking forward to seeing how you like it...you remind me of me when planning my first trip (which I suppose is why I keep giving advice)...except we had no money and we did it on like a $2000 budget for the whole trip. I think you'll be spending more than that on food!

DW and I had such a great time way back when, but actually drove ourselves to exhaustion. We also did all the Disney Parks (3 theme parks + 3 water parks at the time) Universal, NASA, and several nights at Pleasure Island, all in 7 days. We had tickets for the space shuttle launch but you had to be there at 4 AM. That was back when you could get pretty close, they changed launch procotols after 2011. We had our alarms set and woke up and turned it off.

I still was pretty intense for the next few trips, but have mellowed of late. You get to a point where "Oh, I can just see that next time". Still spreadsheet it out, and plan each day, but I try and build in a lot more "just hang out at the hotel" time.

So a bit more advice. You were talking about booking FP+ early so that you can optimize getting more of them. There's two schools of thought on that with FP+, the one you describe and the "use at peak times" theory. I don't have enough experience yet to tell you which was better. (The old FP- "hoard them early, use them later" method beats anything you can do nowadays.) However, I would say scheduling/using FP+ before 10 AM is a waste. At that point you are better off standby, as lines are typically very short. I would say using them earlier at MK is the best place for that to work, since MK doesn't have the tiers. Last time had FP+ windows @ Noon, 1PM, and 2PM, and shortcutted about 200 minutes of Standby line. (We actually had a 4th one we got after getting stranded on Pirates.)

You're right on the food budget...I was pretty surprised when I first looked at the cost. Here's hoping all the posts I see about the quality (or lack thereof) are exaggerated...

We actually wanted to do even more for our trip, including 2-3 days at Universal and maybe more, but we decided that there is already so much that's being packed into these days that it probably isn't wise to push further. Just another thing to be saved and entice us into a future trip, which I'm trying hard not to start planning before we even take this one!

We'll be following your FP+ pattern more or less. We're not up to 60 days yet but I'm planning on grabbing one at 10, 11, and noon or thereabouts. TP was actually showing some of the big rides like 7dmt still having a 20-30 minute queue even if it was #1 on our list at rope drop, which I found surprising. I'll work on posting our preliminary attraction list soon after the forums are back up following the migration this weekend.

 

[skier_pete]

You're right on the food budget...I was pretty surprised when I first looked at the cost. Here's hoping all the posts I see about the quality (or lack thereof) are exaggerated...

WDW food gets slagged unfairly. The signature restaurants are all generally excellent, but even most of the other sit-down restaurants are very good. There are even many very good quality QS locations in the parks, it's just people tend to gravitate to burgers and fries. For instance, Sunshine Seasons in the land pavillion is fantastic and has a great selection of dishes. When we bought into DVC it meant that we can no longer afford as many TS restaurants, but fortunately there's great food to be had in every park (OK, maybe not DHS)

Just another thing to be saved and entice us into a future trip, which I'm trying hard not to start planning before we even take this one!

Uh oh...

We'll be following your FP+ pattern more or less. We're not up to 60 days yet but I'm planning on grabbing one at 10, 11, and noon or thereabouts. TP was actually showing some of the big rides like 7dmt still having a 20-30 minute queue even if it was #1 on our list at rope drop, which I found surprising.

OK - you got me started, now you can't shut me off.

MK: Yes 7MDT is not worth the "mad dash at rope drop" just yet, it's definitely a FP+ if you want to try it. Recommend starting at either Big Thunder/Splash Mountain OR Space Mountain / Buzz OR Peter Pan's Flight as your rope drop goals, then use FP+ for the other biggies you want to catch. FP+ has had an odd affect in that rides that used to rarely have long standby lines (Pirates & Haunted Mansion) now do have them, and rides that used to have HUGE standby lines (JC and Buzz come to mind) are much shorter. Your FP+ strategy of use 'em early is sound here. Make sure to group them smart. (Don't pick BTMRR at 10, and Space Mountain at 11.)

Epcot: You only get one "Tier 1" FP, you use it for either Soarin' or Test Track, and the other one hit at rope drop. Test Track has one thing going for it to keep in mind if you want to ride it more than once - Single Rider line. Often much shorter than even the FP+ line, the Single Rider lines only disadvantage is you might not sit with your wife, which is why I suggest it for repeat rides. Group B the only FP worth a damn are SSE, Mission Space and the Character Spot.

DAK - Everest also has a Single Rider line, it's harder to spot, but again good for re-rides. Don't waste FP+ for the shows. The Safari, Everest, Kali RR, and DINOSAUR are the only things worth a damn. (But if you only see ONE stage show in all WDW, make sure to take the time to see Festival of the Lion King. I know lots of rookies that skipped this one thinking its for the kids, but believe me don't miss it.)

DHS - Toughest FP+ of the bunch. There's three Tier one's that are tough to choose from. TSMM requires either riding at rope drop or a FP+. RnRC builds lines quick too, but again their is a single rider line that'll usually get you on the ride as fast if not faster than the FP+ but again split you up, so maybe for repeat rides. One of the two is a rope drop, the other is FP+ GMR never used to have more than a 20 minute wait, but with FP+ now does, but I would still probably not choose this one.

For the Tier 2 - definitely ToT. The rest is pick 'em. Star Tours would probably be my second choice, though the waits usually aren't long, but all the other choices are shows, and you are not going at a busy time so you can just walk up 15 minutes before the show and get in. And with FP+ you still have to get there 10 minutes early, or they let people into those sections. Of the shows, Indiana Jones and LMA are probably the most worth while to FP.

Sorry I keep giving you advice on your PTR that you are not asking for, it's in my nature.

 

[Richard M Nixon]

We're so excited for our trip and don't know anyone in person who is into Disney, so it's fun to be able to share online.

Luckily, with three MK days, that's a minimum of 9 FP+ for the top tier attractions. I know we're planning on getting them for 7dmt, space mountain, btmrr, and the two parades. Lots of time. Same with Epcot, two days means we can grab both soarin and test track (we're leaning against doing an Illuminations since it seems to be viewable from so many places).

Since our goal is to experience as much as we can, there won't be many repeat rides. Maybe one or two favorites will have time for a second round, but it's unlikely to have many more.

 

[skier_pete]

We're so excited for our trip and don't know anyone in person who is into Disney, so it's fun to be able to share online.

No problem then, I'll keep sharing my opinion.

Luckily, with three MK days, that's a minimum of 9 FP+ for the top tier attractions. I know we're planning on getting them for 7dmt, space mountain, btmrr, and the two parades. Lots of time. Same with Epcot, two days means we can grab both soarin and test track (we're leaning against doing an Illuminations since it seems to be viewable from so many places).

The parades are OK use of FP+, especially the evening one. The daytime one its usually not too hard to walk up 5-minutes before in Frontierland and see it though as not as many people "schedule" that one as it's more of a "oh there's the parade" and those that do plan it tend to do so on Main Street. It also prevents you from using up your FPs until after the parade is over so that you can't get more.

Illuminations I agree, I would not use the one Tier 1 here. There's plenty of good spots to grab a drink and watch, especially when it's not a busy time of year. It's also an odd show in that most locations are about the same, and none of them are really great.

Since our goal is to experience as much as we can, there won't be many repeat rides. Maybe one or two favorites will have time for a second round, but it's unlikely to have many more.

I agree with this, though you may find a few that are worth a second go-around. With a third day at MK, you could switch up your FP+ the day before if you wanted to repeat rides. (one of things I like very much about FP+, you can make changes on the fly.)