The word "midget"

[Coonhound]

I agree with you about how the evolution occurs, but until we can get people to cease being mean, I think it's going to continue. And I'm not sure what choice people who don't want to be mean have other than to accept the evolution of language and acknowledge that the connotation of words changes. I personally do not want to use a word to describe people that has developed a negative connotation, so I try to be respectful and open to learning what words have started to deviate too far from their original intent.

So yeah, people ruin the words, it wasn't the words fault -- but I still don't care about any word enough to knowingly hurt the feelings of a human being

Goodness, no. I wasn't saying that we SHOULDN'T change the words. By all means if the word begins to have negative connotations then we don't want to use it and cause hurt feelings. I am absolutely for changing the word to whatever seems more appropriate at the time.
My post was just to explain that the accepted terminology keeps changing not because of the word but because of the people who begin to use it as an insult.

 

[bcla]

I heard "Short People" on the radio yesterday. Can you imagine if he wrote that song today!

"They got grubby little fingers...and dirty little minds..."

It was written from the point of view of a 3rd person, deranged lunatic. I don't know if such a song would be featured or as popular as "Short People" was in the 70s, but I could imagine something written as some sort of shock piece.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I think if someone says that they find the title insulting or offensive or if they say they don't like it that should be good enough. I remember when I was a kid hearing adults say "Oriental" or "Colored" when describing a person of a certain race. But language evolves and we've come to find that there are words that are better and more accurate and don't make the person being described feel bad. And I think we should honor that because I know I wouldn't want someone to describe me with a word that makes me feel bad so I wouldn't want to do that to anyone else.

I have to admit, it may be my pure ignorance, but the Dis is the only place I've seen "Oriental" referred to as "offensive".

"Asian" certainly can't be considered "more accurate".

 

[cornflkgrl]

I have to admit, it may be my pure ignorance, but the Dis is the only place I've seen "Oriental" referred to as "offensive".

"Asian" certainly can't be considered "more accurate".

Seriously?

 

[littlejimmy]

i have no problem if the term midget disappears. my problem is that we will have to rename many of our most popular sports, midget wrestling, midget tossing, and perhaps, the most popular sport in America, midget bowling...

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

I have to admit, it may be my pure ignorance, but the Dis is the only place I've seen "Oriental" referred to as "offensive".

"Asian" certainly can't be considered "more accurate".

Trust me, it is an offensive word to many that come from Asian countries or have never even been to an Asian country.

An example: Can you imagine the frustration of people that have been born in North America as well as their parents, etc, being referred to as Oriental or even Asian for that matter, based on the colour of their skin and facial features?

I like this explanation:

Why “Oriental” Is a No-No
What’s the problem with using the term “Oriental” to describe individuals of Asian descent? Common complaints about the term include that it should be reserved for objects, such as rugs, and not people, and that it’s antiquated—akin to using “Negro” to describe an African American.

Howard University Law Professor Frank H. Wu made the comparison in a 2009 New York Timespiece about the state of New York banning the use of “Oriental” on government forms and documents. Washington State passed a similar ban in 2002.

“It’s associated with a time period when Asians had a subordinate status,” Professor Wu told theTimes. He added that people link the term to old stereotypes of Asians and the era when the United States government passed exclusion acts to keep Asian people from entering the country. Given this, “For many Asian Americans, it’s not just this term: It’s about much more…It’s about your legitimacy to be here,” Wu said.

In the same piece, historian Mae M. Ngai, author of Impossible Subjects: Illegal Aliens and the Making of Modern America, explained that, while the term “Oriental” isn’t a slur, it’s never been widely used by people of Asian descent to describe themselves.

“I think it’s fallen into disfavor because it’s what other people call us. It’s only the East if you’re from somewhere else,” Ngai said, referring to “Oriental’s” meaning—“Eastern.” “It’s a Eurocentric name for us, which is why it’s wrong. You should call people by what (they) call themselves, not how they are situated in relation to yourself.”

 

[tinatark]

I have to admit, it may be my pure ignorance, but the Dis is the only place I've seen "Oriental" referred to as "offensive".

"Asian" certainly can't be considered "more accurate".

I saw a tagline once, "Oriental is a rug"

 

[pryncess527]

I have to admit, it may be my pure ignorance, but the Dis is the only place I've seen "Oriental" referred to as "offensive".

"Asian" certainly can't be considered "more accurate".

Objects are oriental -- not people. That is what I have always been told

 

[disney4us2002]

So I know midget is out. Is dwarf or dwarfism also a negative description now? I'm a regular-sized person but little person sounds condescending imho. I realize it's not a descriptor for me so I shouldn't care.

 

[bcla]

I have to admit, it may be my pure ignorance, but the Dis is the only place I've seen "Oriental" referred to as "offensive".

"Asian" certainly can't be considered "more accurate".

It implies some sort of otherness or of being foreign/exotic.

Or course it works both ways. I've been told that Chinese typically describe white people as "wài guó rén", which literally means "other nationality person", but essentially means foreigner. They'll even refer to white people living in their own country as foreigners. Someone who isn't white is likely to be described by their national origin or skin tone. I personally find it offensive that they think of Americans living in the United States as foreigners, but that's their mindset.

 

[tzolkin]

“I think it’s fallen into disfavor because it’s what other people call us. It’s only the East if you’re from somewhere else,” Ngai said, referring to “Oriental’s” meaning—“Eastern.” “It’s a Eurocentric name for us, which is why it’s wrong. You should call people by what (they) call themselves, not how they are situated in relation to yourself.”

While I agree with everything else and recognize that "Oriental" is a big no-no, this bolded part doesn't really make much sense to me.

By this reasoning, the word "Asia" would be just as inappropriate. It's also Eurocentric (Greek) and it also means "East".

 

[pryncess527]

So I know midget is out. Is dwarf or dwarfism also a negative description now? I'm a regular-sized person but little person sounds condescending imho. I realize it's not a descriptor for me so I shouldn't care.

If a person has the medical condition of dwarfism, then no, I don't think it's a negative description.
If it's used as a catch-all for short people who may or may not have dwarfism, that would make me raise an eyebrow.
If it's used in role playing, they are talking about a race (like elves, gnomes and dwarves) and we've entered fantasy land

 

[pryncess527]

While I agree with everything else and recognize that "Oriental" is a big no-no, this bolded part doesn't really make much sense to me.

By this reasoning, the word "Asia" would be just as inappropriate. It's also Eurocentric (Greek) and it also means "East".

I think there is a difference.
Asia is a place -- and we had to give it a name in our language. Yes, it's eurocentrically derived, because it's the English word.
but to call a person "oriental" is focusing on their difference and exoticness. There are other English words that could be used which don't focus on "other-ness" and instead just more accurate describe their geographic origin. Like Asian. Or even better, a specific Asian nationality.

On that note, I once had an Indian friend who was very amused to learn that, because US Geography calls India part of Asia, some people consider him Asian. Even the term Southeast Asian seemed so strange to him. I think in more modern education (not the 80's geography I got in school), we probably do a better job of discussing the Indian sub-Continent as distinct from Asia. He even thought the concept of an "Indian Sub-Continent" was hilarious. It made me want to learn a ton about what elementary/middle school education looks like in other countries.

 

[piglet1979]

I am really short. Not a little person but I am only 4'9" and can technically play in there Olympic Games if I wanted to. When I was younger we looked up the difference between a dwarf and a midget. My step dad always called me a midget and we got curious. The encyclopedia said a dwarf is a person who is abnormally short and not perfectly proportioned. A midget is a person who is abnormally short and perfect in proportion.

 

[bcla]

I am really short. Not a little person but I am only 4'9" and can technically play in there Olympic Games if I wanted to. When I was younger we looked up the difference between a dwarf and a midget. My step dad always called me a midget and we got curious. The encyclopedia said a dwarf is a person who is abnormally short and not perfectly proportioned. A midget is a person who is abnormally short and perfect in proportion.

I don't know if there's necessarily any perfect proportion. Heads don't typically scale that well. Tall people often appear to have small heads if all you see is a photo without any reference.

With dwarfs, the head is generally really large in proportion with the rest of the body.

 

[SMD]

I don't know if there's necessarily any perfect proportion. Heads don't typically scale that well. Tall people often appear to have small heads if all you see is a photo without any reference.

With dwarfs, the head is generally really large in proportion with the rest of the body.

There are hundreds of types of dwarfism. There is no "generally" with dwarfism.

 

[bcla]

There are hundreds of types of dwarfism. There is no "generally" with dwarfism.

But there's the popular perception of an adult dwarf with an adult size head and extremities that look short but stout. I had to look up the medical term, which is "achondroplasia", which accounts for over two-thirds of dwarfism cases.

 

[roseaster]

There are hundreds of types of dwarfism. There is no "generally" with dwarfism.

Yes, thank you. The type of dwarfism that people are most familiar with is achondroplasia. In which the arms and legs are short but the torso and skull are of average size. It is a genetic disorder. There are many types of genetic dwarfism.

In the case of a lot of munchkins in The Wizard of Oz, they had pituitary dwarfism. Caused by an underfunctioning pituitary gland, so they were just people of very short stature. Not a genetic disorder. Pituitary dwarfism doesn't exist in 1st world countries any more because of advances in medical science doctors are able to replace pituitary hormones.

In reality what does it really matter why people want to be called what they want to be called? Or whether it is a "new" term (little people certainly is not) or whether it isn't the term you always used. If someone or a group of someones tells you that a certain term is hurtful don't use it. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree, or if that is"what you have always done."

Also note the the OP has a habit of posting things that are controversial or will spark and argument and then conveniently disappearing from the thread.

 

[SMD]

But there's the popular perception of an adult dwarf with an adult size head and extremities that look short but stout. I had to look up the medical term, which is "achondroplasia", which accounts for over two-thirds of dwarfism cases.

There are hundreds of types of dwarfism. This is not changed by popular perceptions. You don't get to decide who fits the mold for the label "dwarf," nor what is the generally their head size proptionate to their body. Not every post needs a response. Especially when you're putting down and labeling a group of people. Silence would have been golden.

 

[porschegrl]

I have to admit, it may be my pure ignorance, but the Dis is the only place I've seen "Oriental" referred to as "offensive".

You must not follow Chrissy Tiegen on Twitter, then. (I don't, either, but this article popped up on my Yahoo home page)

https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/chrissy-teigen-upsets-twitter-comments-020700847.html

Her personal take appears to be that "Oriental" is ignorant, but not necessarily offensive. Others respond that they do consider it offensive.