The WDW 5th Park Debate

[tgropp]

Sounds like a plan. When do we start?

Oh, wait... Disney has to first spend untold billions of dollars and millions of management man-hours trying to keep Hollywood and ESPN propped up. And meanwhile stealing the money and time from the parks to do it with.

So who gets the blame for this colossal strategic mistake? Not Chapek - he walked off with a $100 million golden parachute. Not Iger, who floats around Hollywood knocking back $25 million/year or better.

I'll tell you who pays - the stockholders who've had to endure sub-standard management performance for over five (5) years. And the guests of the parks and cruises pay.

Rant off.

Repair the parks that we already have. Bob Iger has been a colossal failure for the Disney parks. Oh how I long for the Eisner Disney Decade days

 

[DanielleC]

Exactly this. There's 9 rides at HS, 9 rides at EPCOT and 8 rides at AK. At MK there are 24 rides (all of these numbers are based on my own definition of a ride). Disney fans should not want a 5th gate until the current parks have more to do. HS, EPCOT and AK are all half day to barely a full day park. Compare that to the two parks on the west coast and its pretty comical how little there is to do beyond MK at WDW.

Walt Disney didn't want "rides" in his park. He wanted "attractions". This is where the definition of "rides" falls apart. Disney is not about rides and thrills. There are 16 attractions in EPCOT. There are 15 attractions in Animal Kingdom. There are 15 attractions in Hollywood Studios. In the same order, there are 61 "things to do" in EPCOT, 61 in AK and 38 in HS. MK has 68. Take out Character Experiences and there's still more than 120 things to do in all parks.

Everything in the parks are designed, when possible, to eat up guests and keep guests from running to ride after ride. It's why they have shows, fireworks (not included in my counts), rides for kids and rides for adults. It's why the developed the omnimover ride system. Shows like Peter Pan, Pooh, Spaceship Earth, Imagination, Runaway Railway, Remy's, People Mover and others may be slow, but they eat guests, constantly moving.

There is plenty to do in all parks. It just depends on what each guest wants to do. But if you're looking for just "rides' or thrill rides you're somewhat out of luck.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

I concur with those that say Studios, Epcot, and AK need 2 to 3 more rides each before even thinking about a fifth park or an expansion of MK. And at least half of the new rides at the other three parks should be family rides.

 

[New Mouse]

Walt Disney didn't want "rides" in his park. He wanted "attractions". This is where the definition of "rides" falls apart. Disney is not about rides and thrills. There are 16 attractions in EPCOT. There are 15 attractions in Animal Kingdom. There are 15 attractions in Hollywood Studios. In the same order, there are 61 "things to do" in EPCOT, 61 in AK and 38 in HS. MK has 68. Take out Character Experiences and there's still more than 120 things to do in all parks.

Everything in the parks are designed, when possible, to eat up guests and keep guests from running to ride after ride. It's why they have shows, fireworks (not included in my counts), rides for kids and rides for adults. It's why the developed the omnimover ride system. Shows like Peter Pan, Pooh, Spaceship Earth, Imagination, Runaway Railway, Remy's, People Mover and others may be slow, but they eat guests, constantly moving.

There is plenty to do in all parks. It just depends on what each guest wants to do. But if you're looking for just "rides' or thrill rides you're somewhat out of luck.

That's how it was designed. That's not how it is now. Cutting shows. Parades. Streetmosphere. Performers. Disney pales in comparison to even 10 years ago.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Walt Disney didn't want "rides" in his park. He wanted "attractions". This is where the definition of "rides" falls apart. Disney is not about rides and thrills. There are 16 attractions in EPCOT. There are 15 attractions in Animal Kingdom. There are 15 attractions in Hollywood Studios. In the same order, there are 61 "things to do" in EPCOT, 61 in AK and 38 in HS. MK has 68. Take out Character Experiences and there's still more than 120 things to do in all parks.

Everything in the parks are designed, when possible, to eat up guests and keep guests from running to ride after ride. It's why they have shows, fireworks (not included in my counts), rides for kids and rides for adults. It's why the developed the omnimover ride system. Shows like Peter Pan, Pooh, Spaceship Earth, Imagination, Runaway Railway, Remy's, People Mover and others may be slow, but they eat guests, constantly moving.

There is plenty to do in all parks. It just depends on what each guest wants to do. But if you're looking for just "rides' or thrill rides you're somewhat out of luck.

This mentality is not working with HS in particular. The park consistently has the highest wait times and feels very congested to navigate through. HS is under built and needs at least 2-3 more rides to eat up crowds. It doesn't help that HS has an entire land that is a waste of space and could be used for an attraction.

 

[WB1971]

I don't think it's quite time for a 5th gate, but I do think they need to create a new ancilliary offering like the water parks/mini golf - something to keep people in that bubble for some extra fun. They have that big NBA building, so maybe something there. Personally, I wouldn't mind a DisneyQuest 2.0 kind of thing or something like The Void, but something any kind of compelling extra would be good.

They should start by actually operating the TWO water parks they have. Having one at a time open during summer season is ridiculous.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

Walt Disney didn't want "rides" in his park. He wanted "attractions". This is where the definition of "rides" falls apart. Disney is not about rides and thrills. There are 16 attractions in EPCOT. There are 15 attractions in Animal Kingdom. There are 15 attractions in Hollywood Studios. In the same order, there are 61 "things to do" in EPCOT, 61 in AK and 38 in HS. MK has 68. Take out Character Experiences and there's still more than 120 things to do in all parks.

Everything in the parks are designed, when possible, to eat up guests and keep guests from running to ride after ride. It's why they have shows, fireworks (not included in my counts), rides for kids and rides for adults. It's why the developed the omnimover ride system. Shows like Peter Pan, Pooh, Spaceship Earth, Imagination, Runaway Railway, Remy's, People Mover and others may be slow, but they eat guests, constantly moving.

There is plenty to do in all parks. It just depends on what each guest wants to do. But if you're looking for just "rides' or thrill rides you're somewhat out of luck.

Well said... And I agree.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

This mentality is not working with HS in particular. The park consistently has the highest wait times and feels very congested to navigate through. HS is under built and needs at least 2-3 more rides to eat up crowds. It doesn't help that HS has an entire land that is a waste of space and could be used for an attraction.

MGM was a GREAT theme park. The lack of imagination from Imagineers & those that insist on only offering the latest IP in new attractions has diminished it for many.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

Repair the parks that we already have. Bob Iger has been a colossal failure for the Disney parks. Oh how I long for the Eisner Disney Decade days

I think Iger said recently (CNBC?) that he found out building new is a lot easier than repairing.
But IMO we had too many years when maintanence & daily upkeep has been ignored.
And VERY UNPOPULAR OPINION PROBABLY: WDW has suffered the most neglect after TWDC decided to build so many new Parks overseas PLUS they retain the most WALT Magic (in DISNEY PARKS) that began to disappear the minute Eisner took over.

 

[wabbott]

They should start by actually operating the TWO water parks they have. Having one at a time open during summer season is ridiculous.

Keeping the existing attractions up and running reliably should also be a goal. For example, having Rock 'n' Roller Coaster Starring Aerosmith down for several months for spring '23 and spring '24 is NOT acceptable.

 

[piccolopat]

I was hoping the update for TT that would pay homage to the original World of Motion would actually result in 2 experiences. Bring back the dark ride of WoM for those who can't or won't do thrill rides and then have a separate update of the TT thrill. Disney needs more family friendly dark rides like those when Epcot was new. And for goodness sake, bring back the original Journey to Imagination and Horizons!

 

[randumb0]

There is not enough demand for a 5th park IMO. When Epic Universe opens I think we will see an even greater decrease in demand for Disney overall

 

[HokieRaven5]

There is not enough demand for a 5th park IMO. When Epic Universe opens I think we will see an even greater decrease in demand for Disney overall

Epic would likely also serve to cannibalize the attendance at the other UOR parks. It’s why the early rumors of tickets are 3 day with only 1 day at Epic allowed to preserve the attendance at the other UOR parks.

 

[Lesverts]

I think we can put the fifth gate to bed. 3 new lands and one redevelopment.

 

[ucf_knight]

Walt Disney didn't want "rides" in his park. He wanted "attractions". This is where the definition of "rides" falls apart. Disney is not about rides and thrills. There are 16 attractions in EPCOT. There are 15 attractions in Animal Kingdom. There are 15 attractions in Hollywood Studios. In the same order, there are 61 "things to do" in EPCOT, 61 in AK and 38 in HS. MK has 68. Take out Character Experiences and there's still more than 120 things to do in all parks.

Everything in the parks are designed, when possible, to eat up guests and keep guests from running to ride after ride. It's why they have shows, fireworks (not included in my counts), rides for kids and rides for adults. It's why the developed the omnimover ride system. Shows like Peter Pan, Pooh, Spaceship Earth, Imagination, Runaway Railway, Remy's, People Mover and others may be slow, but they eat guests, constantly moving.

There is plenty to do in all parks. It just depends on what each guest wants to do. But if you're looking for just "rides' or thrill rides you're somewhat out of luck.

Then the attractions need to improve immensely as the majority of these “attractions” you counted up aren’t worth going to. If these attractions were worth seeing you wouldn’t see wait times of 75-95 minutes routinely at the parks for their rides. I was glad to see the investments Disney is making into their parks after their most recent D23 announcements.

 

[DisRich]

Def love to see the announcements yesterday! If they actually follow through with starting something on all of those before D23 2026 I’d be pretty pumped. Hopefully Iger leaving doesn’t change the finance plan but we’ll see. All I want is that villains land

 

[tjkraz]

Repair the parks that we already have. Bob Iger has been a colossal failure for the Disney parks. Oh how I long for the Eisner Disney Decade days

Eisner was also responsible for the disasters that were Animal Kingdom, California Adventure and EuroDisney. And at the tail end of his tenure, basically nothing opened at WDW from about 2000-2005.

 

[tjkraz]

There is not enough demand for a 5th park IMO. When Epic Universe opens I think we will see an even greater decrease in demand for Disney overall

People have been writing a eulogy for Walt Disney World dating back to the first Harry Potter attractions. In reality, they both Universal and Disney saw their attendance steadily climb. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Disney's profitability may suffer if they're forced to offer promotions and introduce new perks and benefits to boost business (free arrival day waterpark admission.) But it's not like waves of customers are going to abandon Disney for Universal. Universal's pricing and policies will also make sure guests are paying a premium to visit Epic Universe. And in a few years Disney will have its own new attractions to unveil. Competition is good.

 

[wabbott]

Eisner was also responsible for the disasters that were Animal Kingdom, California Adventure and EuroDisney. And at the tail end of his tenure, basically nothing opened at WDW from about 2000-2005.

He spent all of his time - and that of his management team - supervising the programming of ABC-TV's schedule, to the neglect of everything else. It's all chronicled here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisneyWar

 

[Brian Noble]

Without getting too much into the WDW business side of it (because there are a lot of draw backs and issues there), why are people against it?

I don't think you can do that, because this is a business. And, it's a business that mostly serves US families on vacation--families whose typical vacations are only 4-ish days long. A 5th gate cannibalizes the other four in that world, and there just aren't enough 2-3 week guests from the UK to make up for it.

Even if you don't ignore the business case, AK and arguably DS still need more to do.